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LordTyphoon

World of Warships – Pay to win? 

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Neptulussus said:

My semi-shiptost here;

 

Once upon a time, a premium ship were released so that people could earn extra credits than tech tree ships, and could re-train the captains without the crippling penalty that comes when not paying doubloons.

Little, by little, people began complaining how uninspiring premiums in terms of in-game performance are so WG began reworking those ships to be attractive performance-wise as well.

Before we know it, the premium ships are not only good at earning income and training captains, but also (largely) performing better than its tech tree brethen. The powercreep continues unabated.

Now calling out for those who realized the original purpose of premium ships once were.....

 

... but nobody came.

 

/Thread

 

As for this:

6 hours ago, LordTyphoon said:

You actually expect the game to be free to win? You expect WarGaming to have a business model with a revenue model of $0, yet employ highly skilled developers and modellers of all sorts to make this game for you?

 

Please. Read again.

7 hours ago, Alvin1020 said:

Nobody is complaining how broken Premium account is - thats how WG monetize "Pay to Progress" - you progress faster by getting more $, XP and Commander training. Thats totally fine.

 

7 hours ago, Alvin1020 said:

WG had proven to us can balance premiums well - Hood is a fantastic example - Unique, but not overpowered. Sims - Extremely fun little ship, but it's just a sidegrade to the Benson. Warspite - Fantastic maneuverability, good fun, but Tier 6 Armor, slow and next to no AA. WG can do it right. Why don't they? Everyone is happy - collectors, people who want to PTProgress get what they want, while it's still fun to all the playerbase, whether they pay or not.

Edited by Alvin1020

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Oh, and I shall leave this here as well.


[Content Removed]

Discussion/Linking Illegal/Inapproriate , Post Edited , User Warned
~Ephys

 

Edited by Ephys

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1 hour ago, Alvin1020 said:

 

/Thread

 

As for this:

 

Please. Read again.

 

Typhoon is kind of a troll and has been in a rebellious state for quite sometime.

Apperantly you were baited and he is eating his popcorns

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Just now, legionary2099 said:

Typhoon is kind of a troll and has been in a rebellious state for quite sometime.

Apperantly you were baited and he is eating his popcorns

my popcorns are getting too salty, perhapes i should have used caramel coating instead?

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It is really fun seeing OP stick with his Ignorance

9 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

my popcorns are getting too salty, perhapes i should have used caramel coating instead?

Pass me some of it

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11 hours ago, drakon233 said:

unfortunately most of the people driving it have completely no idea how to play it

(side note, what anime is your signature from, it looks interesting)

 

Its from To Love Ru series. Its was just a temp siggie but I somehow lost that folder of beta-tester siggies D: I don't suppose anyone has the folder still swimming ard somewhere... 

 

10 hours ago, _Halcyon said:

That's a stock Kagero with only three guns that has even less RPM than stock Kagero guns, this is also true.

 

Assuming you can get them pointed at the enemy in the Kagero in the first place :v

 

Edit: Oh and warships ain't pay2win yet. Have a look at Tanks and you will get the idea. Its the main reason I jumped ship anyway (OH DAMMN IM SO PUNNY) 

Edited by U12D13

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Yeah sure let's support the big whales that are willing to pays for their Power. Leave the small fishes be since they're not going to paying their money to the devs.
let's have no concern whatsoever on those who are not willing to pay their money since they're not supporting the devs. They only worth to get eaten by whales afterall.


I don't mind they sell things to make players feel a little bit more convenient. Things like prem account, Commander re-skill, Removing Modules and more that has no impact on gameplay.

Then here comes premium vehicles. It used to be about commander training, commander retraining, having a special look, having better economy outcomes, nothing impacts on gameplay.
At first its just Atago having a repair kit then they go further with Kutuzov having a smoke .... yeah fine and then they gives Kutuzov a range extended all the way 19kms. (alrighty then)


And suddenly a Belfast came.

A cruiser with Radar, Hydro, Smoke ALL in ONE. Tell me how fun it is for any kind of ships to be fighting it. Yeah sure it doesn't have a repair nor armor does it even need those?
Ok its up to the players to performs in all these ships but do you even consider the one fighting against it ?
Enough of Belfast let's talk about Prinz Eugen.
A ship that is probably the best example for our "premium ship" content just because she has nothing out of ordinary Admiral Hipper class cruiser in the tech tree.

All she has to offer is Prem ship benefit ie, commander training, commander retraining for German Tech tree ships. 
And as you know it who cares about Prinz Eugen when you can have Belfast right?



Players are one of Multiplayer games' content without players nothing happens.

First those F2P players leave and soon Whales will follow.

When people asked me if WoWS is a "Pay to win" game or not instead of me answering that question quickly and proudly I have to THINK and Explains to them.
I can't think of WoWS not being pay to win at this rate tho.
 

Edited by MikuChrome

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4 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

Typhoon is kind of a troll and has been in a rebellious state for quite sometime.

Apperantly you were baited and he is eating his popcorns

Bait or not, it is a topic that should be discussed nevertheless. But anyway.

Edited by Alvin1020

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Honestly OP what were you even thinking making a post like this? I have been playing Wargaming games for more than 5 years and I respectfully disagree with WOWs take on premium boats. Before I left, WOT's crippling issue was gold shells that made angling armor redundant quite a bit but premium tanks on the other hand were just fine. Truth be told they were a nightmare *remembers Lowe that I sold and didn't regret*

Point being, ship that can be bought MUST NOT BE MORE POWERFUL than it's non premium peers. They can be equal but should NEVER be more powerful. This will be a problem in the long run since non-paying players will slowly quit if the trend continues to escalate in this manner. Like one gentlemen above me said, ships like Hood and Sims still make you good money and retrain your captains and will do all that without poisoning your enemy's day. Ships like Sapian and Belfast on the other hand are outright ridiculous. I can't believe they still haven't met the same fate as Type 59 did.

And finally, your argument regarding "noobs in those ships" is only one side of a two way street. If you can meet a bad players driving those ships then you can meet good ones too. And then it will be a single-handed massacre because a game where people barely play with any semblance of team work will drop like a house of cards in front of that player and his/her over-performing ship.

Edited by LonerPrime

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I'm guessing a lot of people have not played the Krispy Kream since she got buffed, I like taking her out now, with AFT she has one of the longest firing ranges at tier 5. You can sit back and be a pest to BB's at start of game and hunt down any DD later in the game. ok, guns still a bit weak, but she is still fun.

As topic. if you are good then the premiums can feel like P2W, but if you suck they will not work for you. How many post on "I want my money back on ....... ship"

Edited by BigWaveSurfer

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3 minutes ago, BigWaveSurfer said:

I'm guessing a lot of people have not played the Krispy Kream since she got buffed, I like taking her out now, with AFT she has one of the longest firing ranges at tier 5. You can sit back and be a pest to BB's at start of game and hunt down any DD later in the game. ok, guns still a bit weak, but she is still fun

I do, I play her every time I'm on, one of my fun ships... Annoys the hell out of dds... & others think I'm a nice easy target.... A trick to play but immensely fun.

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16 hours ago, CarbonMonoxide said:

 

b. Saipan

Belfast is not an exceptional case, there's more

Saipan is a good example

she is tier 7, but she has tier 9 fighters, which is superior to their counterparts in HP, damage, speed

only thing that can stop her fighter is dogfight expert ( a captain skill )

but recently patch let her escape from any dogfight without any cost ( while the others have to lost 1 plane as cost )

Moreover, Saipan has very strong DB squadrons

so currently none of the tier 7 CV(except Saipan itself) can stand against Saipan

Only theory right? So it's time to support it with stats

https://imgur.com/Icp0dDU

(can't post the image again)

Saipan is top in win rate(this time it exceeds 60%, even noobs should notice a serious problem here), average exp, K/D, plane kill(which shows Saipan's superiority against other CV), survival %

Also note that the top average damage in tier 7 is conquered by another premium CV, Kaga

Here we can obviously see how OP the premium ships are

 

LOL- Ranger RIP 39% win rate WG be like - no problem here guys, Ranger is fine.

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2 hours ago, BravaZulu296 said:

LOL- Ranger RIP 39% win rate WG be like - no problem here guys, Ranger is fine.

nah, even WG has already admitted that USN CVs are not fine now, they have talked about plans to buff them but no details yet(or is it just the AP bomb change? but that's not a buff so...)

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1 hour ago, drakon233 said:

nah, even WG has already admitted that USN CVs are not fine now, they have talked about plans to buff them but no details yet(or is it just the AP bomb change? but that's not a buff so...)

 

They could, historically speaking, allow US CV dive bombers drop 2 bombs per plane instead, making it a selling point where IJN focuses on Torps and USN on the AP/HE cluster bomb effect.

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2 minutes ago, U12D13 said:

 

They could, historically speaking, allow US CV dive bombers drop 2 bombs per plane instead, making it a selling point where IJN focuses on Torps and USN on the AP/HE cluster bomb effect.

that would make USN stuidly OP, they can already do 20K per AP bomb drops per squad, at that rate it'd be "click BB with 013/113 for DS"

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6 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

that would make USN stuidly OP, they can already do 20K per AP bomb drops per squad, at that rate it'd be "click BB with 013/113 for DS"

True, rip DDs. 

Accuracy changes maybe? Making it more reliable in a sense? Or airspeed changes. 

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@LordTyphoon In response to the very first post.

 

You simply cannot deny WG is heading towards a P2W model. P2W is not about comparing a noob in an "OP" prem ship against a unicum in tech line ships. It is about taking the same guy, and shoving him in 2 boats with similar roles to play.

 

A world of warships example would be the Minekaze and the Kamikaze. The Kamikaze is essentially a Minekaze that has not been hit by the nerf hammer. Now, the pre nerf Minekaze has been more or less acknowledged as a VERY capable ship. After nerf, the Minekaze's torpedo speed got reduced and it became easier to dodge. Nothing happened to the Kamikaze though, because WG tries not to nerf premium ships (I would say don't but I'm not exactly sure) So what happens is that a premium ship is outright better than its tech tree counter part. Now, a premium ship should provide something different, not provide an replacement for their tech tree counterpart.

 

Now you say, Atago isn't like the Mogami (155mm) :I Ok, so now the Atago provides a unique role that cannot be compared normally. So you take it and compare it with other boats that have a similar role, Mogami (203mm) and you realise that Atago gets repair party for HP health. Mogami's turret layout does grant a major firepower increase while zig zagging, so we can let this one slide.

 

I have the Atlanta and this should be the expected of premium ships. The Pensacola is a hard hitting ship and the Atlanta is a HE spammer. This fulfills the unique role criteria. The 11.1km range limits it enough that it does steamroll other boats. If you give it smoke like the (luckily rare) flint, then it would be OP imo. So you say the Sims, have similar guns and also smoke. But you have 4 guns compared to the Atlanta's 14 guns. I won't compare the Sims to the Mahan because I simply have not enough experience/research done on Mahan.

Edited by FishyPower

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On 04/07/2017 at 3:14 AM, LonerPrime said:

Honestly OP what were you even thinking making a post like this? I have been playing Wargaming games for more than 5 years and I respectfully disagree with WOWs take on premium boats. Before I left, WOT's crippling issue was gold shells that made angling armor redundant quite a bit but premium tanks on the other hand were just fine. Truth be told they were a nightmare *remembers Lowe that I sold and didn't regret*

Point being, ship that can be bought MUST NOT BE MORE POWERFUL than it's non premium peers. They can be equal but should NEVER be more powerful. This will be a problem in the long run since non-paying players will slowly quit if the trend continues to escalate in this manner. Like one gentlemen above me said, ships like Hood and Sims still make you good money and retrain your captains and will do all that without poisoning your enemy's day. Ships like Sapian and Belfast on the other hand are outright ridiculous. I can't believe they still haven't met the same fate as Type 59 did.

And finally, your argument regarding "noobs in those ships" is only one side of a two way street. If you can meet a bad players driving those ships then you can meet good ones too. And then it will be a single-handed massacre because a game where people barely play with any semblance of team work will drop like a house of cards in front of that player and his/her over-performing ship.

You make the type 59 sound a lot nicer than it actually was, type 59 was THE menace, meeting the basilisk it was like (Harry potter) but I see you point

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This game is blatently pay 2 win and ships such as the Saipan, noobfast and kutuzov clearly reflects. The effect is clearly seen in ranked. During the current season, the meta revoles around BBs. And guess what the 3 best tier 6 BBs are: Fuso, Arizona and Warspite, in which 2 out of those are premium. Last season was even worse and I am going to be very frank here. Last ranked season wasnt about the competitiveness between players. It was an opportunity for WarGaming to make money. Hence why the noobfast was on sale. The 4 best ships in theast ranked season was scharnhorst, Noobfast, Saipan, Sims (minus reward ships). How can you claim that the game is not p2w when all of the best ship for each class in the last ranked season are premium ? Isnt ranked meant to be balanced ? Or is this game turning into shit like Combat Arms where only the wallet warriors can even make it to high ranks in a competition. I made it to rank 5 last season and all that I saw was noobfast and Saipan, is this what you want the game to turn into? A show where the guy with the biggest wallet wins competition? I certaintly dont. Balance is infinitely more important to WoWS than revenue as War Gaming is making tons of $$$ from guess what ? Premium time, doubloons! Flags! So no. There should be no excuse for WoWS to Be P2W

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I see nothing wrong with P2W? WG is a business, not a charity. Me? I'll be pissed if I pay for something that has no advantage whatsoever to something that I can get for free. So some gain advantage with money. So what? welcome to the real world. Since you don't have any money to spend, then put some effort to train yourself to be good enough to regain the advantage over those who pay their way up.

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8 minutes ago, Puteralanun said:

I see nothing wrong with P2W? WG is a business, not a charity. Me? I'll be pissed if I pay for something that has no advantage whatsoever to something that I can get for free. So some gain advantage with money. So what? welcome to the real world. Since you don't have any money to spend, then put some effort to train yourself to be good enough to regain the advantage over those who pay their way up.

 

Remember this, F2P players also have their value in games like this. F2P players are essentially fodder. Who wants to play a game where you can't find opponents for a match. So WG needs to retain their F2P players. And throwing too much P2W content isn't a good way to do so. Now I don't have the ability to judge WOWS stats like I can for WOT, but WOT has been having a problem where P2W is getting out of hand and the tank you buy for 50 dollars would only be good for 3 to 6 months before another cycle of more OP tanks replace them. Now, that drives away your average payer. If I am strapped on cash, I would want my tank to be worth the value so in the past before this cycle, the IS-6 was an all time favourite, right from its release and up till the P2W cycle began.

 

P.S I don't like dragging out personal stats, but tbh, your stats make your argument sound more like "I can't skill, so I'll just pay for wins"

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1 hour ago, Puteralanun said:

I see nothing wrong with P2W? WG is a business, not a charity. Me? I'll be pissed if I pay for something that has no advantage whatsoever to something that I can get for free. So some gain advantage with money. So what? welcome to the real world. Since you don't have any money to spend, then put some effort to train yourself to be good enough to regain the advantage over those who pay their way up.

Then you run into unicums driving belfast(sorry), have fun. Just to be clear, I would be fine with wargaming nerfing belfast by for example removing the T8 slot.

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