LordTyphoon

World of Warships – Pay to win? 

165 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

World of Warships – Pay to win? 

I’ll keep my post short – but just want to give WG are a bit of backing over the whole concept of the game.

 

What are the major things so far that WG have worked on this year (alone)?

-          Soviet DD split

-          Dry dock port

-          Scenarios

-          French cruisers x 10

-          Hood

-          Kaga

-          Enterprise

-          British Battleships x 7

-          Endless balancing of all abilities of all ships.

You think developing all the software, modelling, and testing behind all that is free?

It costs money – and a lot of it too.

 

Are Premium ships really Pay2Win?

When you buy anything from the premium shop, and generally when you want to move from using the free aspects of a Freemium service to the full premium service, it is because you ‘want to have a more enjoyable and satisfying experience with the product’.

The same applies to World of Warships. That is why you buy ships like Kutuzov, Belfast, Saipan. Yes we all have nicknames for these abominations (e.g. Buyfast, Belfart, Noobfast). Despite what the stats show, it is not just a simple matter of taking a premium into a game and then winning. It still takes a lot of thought and skill by the player to get the most out of a premium ship – otherwise it is just the same as sailing any other ship.

Also, since it is likely (although I haven’t seen stats) that the more skilled and regular players of the game are willing to sink their money into this game and buy the premium ships, therefore we tend to think that ‘premium ships are OP’. This is especially if you are new to the game, or a serial potato, or faced the ship for the first time (e.g. I remember first Tier 8 game in my Bayern, and there 19km away is a Kutuzov endlessly raining IFHE on you, and it’s out of the Bayern’s firing range. Just what the hell), then you surely have reason to think so, and I understand that completely.

Anyone who has played the game long enough will know of highly effective counterplays to most premiums. E.g:

-          Belfast can be nailed in smpoke, and has no armour once it runs out of smoke

-          Kutuzov accelerates slowly and cannot easily escape torpedoes when in smoke, has no armour like the Chapayev

-          Arizona has a raised citadel, is slow as hell, can be overmatched by any shell 15 inches or above

-          Texas has no secondaries, vulnerable to close quarters combat

-          Krasny Krym is just a all-round steaming turd

-          Prinz Eugen - SERIOUSLY if you even try to argue that Eugen is OP I will destroy you

 

Conclusion

Nothing in this world is free. So why should WarGaming do all of the above for you if you aren’t willing to pay for it?

No reason, really.

I understand that people don’t want to part with their money (naturally), but realistically, to keep this game going, we need to make sure the developers at St. Petersburg keep their jobs and put their 7.5 hours per day (probably more) in maintaining the game. You wouldn’t be on this forum reading this if your passion for the game isn’t great enough.

In conclusion, I think criticisms of Pay2Win, especially in WoWS, are unreasonable. Essentially we need to understand that to ensure that this great game stays the way it is, there is a price to pay.

You want a CV UI/UX rework? You need to pay for it.

You want Italian and French battleships? You need to pay for it.

You want the US Cruiser split? You need to pay for it.

You want new campaigns and scenarios? You need to pay for it.

You want the balance between ship classes in the game? You will 100% need to pay for that.

I will happily pay for Premium time + Premium ships to ensure that we get new content every few weeks from the devs and so that they will make sure this game is enjoyable.

(And you free-to-play players will still get to play this game which is pretty much funded by us ‘Pay2Win’ customers. So we’re paying for your entertainment and enjoyment. That is technically free-loading – but I will leave it at that.)

- - - End - - -

 

Locked on OP's request.

~amade

Edited by amade

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you are wrong about one thing, if you run hydro+accel mod on the MK you are so agile that you will almost never eat torps in smoke


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Harekaze - IJN DD that has USN quick-turning fast-firing guns on its 3rd hull type. And a possible detection range of only 5.4km by sea. Best of both worlds. 

 

Just putting it out there 


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That's a short post?

:Smile_trollface:


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Completely agree. I don't even own any of the ships you mentioned, but I've been happy to buy a few others as a show of support and because I find them to be interesting ships.


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14 minutes ago, U12D13 said:

Harekaze - IJN DD that has USN quick-turning fast-firing guns on its 3rd hull type. And a possible detection range of only 5.4km by sea. Best of both worlds. 

 

Just putting it out there 

unfortunately most of the people driving it have completely no idea how to play it

(side note, what anime is your signature from, it looks interesting)


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Wow that looks like a steaming pile of idk what. I'm not sure I even follow. Are you telling me that this game isn't p2w or going in that direction steadily? Or are you telling me that it is acceptable for the game to be p2w because that is the only viable way to make a f2p game? You can't possibly argue by any stretch of imagination that Saipan and Belfast are balanced. So I'm assuming you meant the second. You're not doing f2p players a favor by buying stuff and you're not in any way 'paying' for their entertainment. This is simply the basics of f2p model. WG gets a much larger player base by making the game free to play, which ensures that the paying players actually have people to play with. Without the droves of f2p players, the paying players would leave. So how do you retain both kinds of players? You give paying players a worthwhile experience while not screwing over f2p players because they are 'freeloading'. WG isn't new to this scene and they've made tons of money in wot by making sure they keep this balance or at least stay satisfactorily near it. So of course op premiums will exist but trying to shut up f2p players asking for a balanced game or telling then that they shouldn't be playing a f2p game for free is only going to hurt the game. Besides, several other f2p games have made the same or even more success than wg titles with completely balanced content so saying that is impossible sounds stupid


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1 hour ago, U12D13 said:

Harekaze - IJN DD that has USN quick-turning fast-firing guns on its 3rd hull type. And a possible detection range of only 5.4km by sea. Best of both worlds. 

 

Just putting it out there 

That's a stock Kagero with only three guns that has even less RPM than stock Kagero guns, this is also true.


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47 minutes ago, Adm_Kunkka said:

Wow that looks like a steaming pile of idk what. 

Thank you for your generous compliment. Your politeness is much appreciated. 

 

47 minutes ago, Adm_Kunkka said:

I'm not sure I even follow. Are you telling me that this game isn't p2w or going in that direction steadily? Or are you telling me that it is acceptable for the game to be p2w because that is the only viable way to make a f2p game? 

I’m not following you as well, what on earth are you on about?

 

47 minutes ago, Adm_Kunkka said:

You can't possibly argue by any stretch of imagination that Saipan and Belfast are balanced. So I'm assuming you meant the second. You're not doing f2p players a favor by buying stuff and you're not in any way 'paying' for their entertainment. 

You ever played with a noob play a Saipan or Belfast? You want to tell me every single Belfast you’ve played with/against did everything 95% correct? Balance is based on overall ship + player performance on a large scale, not on individual ship abilities and attributes, in case you haven't realised. Thats why we have supertesters. 

 

47 minutes ago, Adm_Kunkka said:

So I'm assuming you meant the second. You're not doing f2p players a favor by buying stuff and you're not in any way 'paying' for their entertainment. 

…So free-to-play players get to enjoy the game without having to pay any money, WG is just SUPPOSED to do this for them for free? Seems legit. Great point!

 

47 minutes ago, Adm_Kunkka said:

This is simply the basics of f2p model. WG gets a much larger player base by making the game free to play, which ensures that the paying players actually have people to play with. Without the droves of f2p players, the paying players would leave. So how do you retain both kinds of players? You give paying players a worthwhile experience while not screwing over f2p players because they are 'freeloading'. WG isn't new to this scene and they've made tons of money in wot by making sure they keep this balance or at least stay satisfactorily near it. So of course op premiums will exist but trying to shut up f2p players asking for a balanced game or telling then that they shouldn't be playing a f2p game for free is only going to hurt the game. Besides, several other f2p games have made the same or even more success than wg titles with completely balanced content so saying that is impossible sounds stupid

Starting to question the IQ of people on the forums now. Nobody in particular.

 

The overall point of my post is not about OP ships. This post is about us needing to contribute to the developers for their time and effort in building this game, and that free-to-play players should not expect WG to ‘balance this’ or ‘make that’ or ‘fix that’ without contributing anything. An of course, obviously if players contribute something they should get a reward for it. For example, like extra Xp per match, extra credits, and ‘OP’ ships.

 

After all, if you contribute above others, why should you not be rewarded? Will I contribute to something if I don’t get anything extra back in return?

 

Free to play players should not complain about the mechanics of the game if they aren’t forking out any cash in the game. Simple. Like this: ‘OOOOOHHHH NOOO only premium accounts get XP and credit boosts, WG making the game Pay-to-win!’

 

So what you said here actually validates my post. Thank you. Not so much a ‘steaming pile of idk what’ anymore? :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Clearly supporting WG is getting a lot of hate. I should start crapping on WarGaming now on every single thing they do to try to keep us entertained, and join the bandwagon, lol. 

 


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Posted (edited)

Logic 404 not found.

 

Firstly, Get this F2P thing right first OP.

WG claimed this is a Free to Play game. If now we are essentially needing to PAY to get content, no - this is not F2P. Don't call it a F2P game.

You are claiming because "Oh WG need to pay their children and stuff" to justifiy they putting in Overpower stuff and attract people to pay for it - What kind of BS justification is that? I need to pay my tuition fee too, why not WG pays me instead? You're telling me - if I want new content, pay for it or else don't complain? What?

 

Think about it - if WG decided the players who paid will have an IN GAME advantage over the other players, the others players will either feel:

A. Angry, and leave the game; or,

B. Buy the ship they got destroyed by

Unfortunately this will eventually cause the population to die out as more and more people get frustrated and leave (*Cough* Certain Modern Tank game).

 

Nobody is complaining how broken Premium account is - thats how WG monetize "Pay to Progress" - you progress faster by getting more $, XP and Commander training. Thats totally fine.

 

The problem, is that many Premium ship introduced to the game - breaks the balance of that tier or others, making the premium ship player to be unnecessarily more powerful at the expense of other players. These players can also be paying WG - just that they are in another ship. How do you explain this?

Why should they be affected if WG just want more $? We don't need the Saipan - We don't need the Kaga - We don't need the Enterprise when they completely screw up the balance of the game! 

Big E can Delete KM/Other BBs, Saipan with that Tier 9 planes and domination of other CV and ships, Kaga with that stupid DPS.....the list go on and on.

 

WG had proven to us can balance premiums well - Hood is a fantastic example - Unique, but not overpowered. Sims - Extremely fun little ship, but it's just a sidegrade to the Benson. Warspite - Fantastic maneuverability, good fun, but Tier 6 Armor, slow and next to no AA. WG can do it right. Why don't they? Everyone is happy - collectors, people who want to PTProgress get what they want, while it's still fun to all the playerbase, whether they pay or not.

 

Moreover, Why does LOL doesn't have Premium Champion? Why does Warframe had no Premium Warframe? Why do Dota and TF2 are so successful? Why don't they have Premium character to play with? Why does these companies never get accused to P2W yet they are extremely successful F2P titles? Because they do F2P right and make a great game. People appreciate that and the playerbase reflect that.

 

31 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

Free to play players should not complain about the mechanics of the game if they aren’t forking out any cash in the game. Simple. Like this: ‘OOOOOHHHH NOOO only premium accounts get XP and credit boosts, WG making the game Pay-to-win!’

 

Also, what is this? Just because one does not pay have no right to complain?

Sorry - this ain't North Korea, everyone can express their opinion. Sorry to disappoint.

 

*Sigh*

Long gone the times where the forum is not filled with shills. You'd better not let Steeltrap see this thread - I bet his brain explode instantly seeing the utter ignorance.

 

31 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

Starting to question the IQ of people on the forums now. Nobody in particular.

 

Well, throwing personal insults certainly don't help your argument.

 

Oh yeah and one thing, I have a career advice for you, go work for EA/Activision - I bet ya they will love you.

Edited by Alvin1020

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Posted (edited)

excuse me

:Smile_popcorn:

 

oh, that anime is from To Love-Ru

Edited by blacknoheart

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Posted (edited)

@LordTyphoon reading all your troll posts in forums, this one also feels like one :D

Carry on carry on!

Edited by icy_phoenix

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30 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

pay to loseshot-17_07.02_23_50.26-0517.thumb.jpg.6801777880042d56d93144ee7ad7e109.jpg

too many wallets


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Just need to get this fact here out ---> The point of free ships is that they are people magnets, the idea being that if then the people on free ships MAY buy premium ships which have some kind of fame to convince people to buy it. If Free ships the frustrating to play the people will just leave the game for a competitor game whatever that may be without even going deep enough to look at buying premiums. WG owns their game, they can do what ever they want with it, ultimately, WG is still at the mercy of consumers.

Unbalanced + sealclubbing = negative reviews

                                             = less customers

                                             = less income

                                             = less funds

                                             = less new content

                                             = less premiums 

                                             = less money

                                             = less premiums

                                             = less money so on so forth.

Therefore:

If balance ships affect player base numbers then, we don't need to play for balance, balance keeps WG business afloat WG does not have a choice of whether they want to balance ships or not. WG won't nerf premiums but premium ships like Saipan and Belfast will eventually be nerfed in my opinion if they find the benefit have failed to outweigh the losses. Criticisms of P2W are very important as they are a form of negative reviews, WG may or may not take these seriously but they do WG's business

I see where your trying to go, money makes the world go round but money only comes if your ads (in this case they are the free ships) attract customers.

 

Welcome to World of Consumers - play for free, no "OP items", ever !

 


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1 hour ago, Alvin1020 said:

 

WG claimed this is a Free to Play game. If now we are essentially needing to PAY to get content, no - this is not F2P. Don't call it a F2P game.

You are claiming because "Oh WG need to pay their children and stuff" to justifiy they putting in Overpower stuff and attract people to pay for it - What kind of BS justification is that? I need to pay my tuition fee too, why not WG pays me instead? You're telling me - if I want new content, pay for it or else don't complain? What?

 

 

You accuse me of ignorance and then you post this - lol. In big fat capital letters as well. 

 

You have no idea how the world works. Please go figure, then come back. 

 

You actually expect the game to be free to win? You expect WarGaming to have a business model with a revenue model of $0, yet employ highly skilled developers and modellers of all sorts to make this game for you?

 

Anyway, you sound like you really resent the game. Why do you even play the game if its so flawed and the developers are very clearly screwing over players like you? What are you doing on this forum? 

 

I don't know about you - if I love and/or am passionate about something, I would want to do my part. Therefore, I'm happy to contribute to WarGaming to making a game I love. In return, WarGaming gives me some fun ships to play. 

 

Whether you like it or not, everything in this world is a transaction. You give and you take. You are seriously mistaken if you genuinely believe WG would make you a truly free-to-play game. 

 


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3 hours ago, LordTyphoon said:

-          Belfast can be nailed in smpoke, and has no armour once it runs out of smoke

-          Kutuzov accelerates slowly and cannot easily escape torpedoes when in smoke, has no armour like the Chapayev

-          Arizona has a raised citadel, is slow as hell, can be overmatched by any shell 15 inches or above

-          Texas has no secondaries, vulnerable to close quarters combat

-          Krasny Krym is just a all-round steaming turd

-          Prinz Eugen - SERIOUSLY if you even try to argue that Eugen is OP I will destroy you

Belfast, like all other RN CL, can be blind shoot/torped. But at Tier 7, she is having an excellent matchmaking, with few BBs adequately skilled to punish the spammer in smoke and DDs with a small bank of torps. This is also why many people consider Leander and Fiji enjoyable, they have a easy time fighting, there aren't many stuff to counter their smoke. But unlike Fiji or Leander, Belfast has more tools up her sleeves to be an excellent DD hunter, with concealment, guns and radar. She needs skills to work, but it's not total glass. She may not be tanky like an angled Myoko or Yorck, but she actually has the thickest main belt of all T7 CA/CL and holds herself better than PepsiCo other than the 13mm bow which can be overmatched by 203mm guns' AP. But at this tier, I never see anyone actually knowing this. IMO Belfast is over performing but not fun and exciting unlike Fiji.

 

Kutuzov, I would argue that she was not OP if we are at version 0.6.0. But now we don't have invisifire so the true competitor Chapayev is now a floating "devastating strike". Mogami may still be competitive due to the buffed transverse and the impressive DPM that no other T8 cruisers can achieve. But Kutuzov have longer effective range and can hide herself in smoke. While the acceleration is very slow, she has relatively good rudder transverse and turning circle. Just use acceleration mod instead of rudder 2. Also use hydro to keep yourself aware of torps. Your base AA DPS can guard yourself well against T7 and T8 CV. Kutuzov is a good ship that is more competitive than most of her counterparts. Very enjoyable ship.

 

AZ's citadel is how that was historically, and it's pretty well protected against 14" and some low penetrating 15/16" like Mutsu/Bayern/Warspite/Hood. Most T6 BB are slow and clumsy. Most T6 BB are easily overmatched by 15"+, Fuso and Bayern are better protected but Fuso gets easily citadelled broadside and Bayern has very unreliable guns.

 

Secondaries aren't the crucial problem of Texas. The guns are unreliable, the armor is shyt, slow, low RoF. Also she shouldn't be a part of "P2W" discussion as one can get her for free with a playtogether invitation.

 

Krispy Kream… *cough due to laughing too hard*

 

Prinz Eugen… *ctrl-c ctrl-v done*


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2 minutes ago, _Halcyon said:

Prinz Eugen… *ctrl-c ctrl-v done*

Prinz Eugen… *ctrl-c ctrl-v + waifu done*


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Just now, drakon233 said:

Prinz Eugen… *ctrl-c ctrl-v + waifu done*

Prinz Eugen… *ctrl-c ctrl-v + waifu  + bait for 3000 doubloons done*


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Posted (edited)

Ah it is really fun watching [Content Removed] trying to be smart with his wall of text

General Insults , Post Edited , User Warned
~Ephys

Edited by Ephys

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as long as I don't see 12 premium ships vs 12 premium ships in 50% of my total battle I had encountered this game is never pay 2 win.

and to be honest a lot of people bought Belfast and Saipan had become a fool of themselves instead, maybe should call them pay 2 b a fool.

 

 

 


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32 minutes ago, spixys said:

as long as I don't see 12 premium ships vs 12 premium ships in 50% of my total battle I had encountered this game is never pay 2 win.

and to be honest a lot of people bought Belfast and Saipan had become a fool of themselves instead, maybe should call them pay 2 b a fool.

 

how is that a p2w when 1 side is bound to lose

unless it's 12 prem ships vs 12 NON prem ship and that Prem ship side won 12-0 


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Wow OP has no idea how to to counter any valid argument other than throwing vague insults and basically sneering at people playing a free game for free. I'm sure my first reply here is adequately clear for anyone with actual powers to comprehend simple sentences, and I have already proven any vague nonsense op is spewing is meaningless.


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Posted (edited)

If anyone hasn't watched Sliphantom's 'Is WoT pay to win?' video on YouTube then I suggest you do so. It is about WoT, but some of it can be applied to WoWs.

 

 

With that said though, I think the biggest flaw in the OP's argument is linking f2p and p2w together, and asserting that WG needs to make overpowered p2w Premium ships for the game to survive. As others have already said, this is certainly not true.

Another thing, overpowered =/= idiot-proof. Just because a noob in an overpowered ship can be beaten doesn't mean it is a balanced ship.

Edited by Thyaliad
Added Sliphantom's video

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