Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Moggytwo

Five nerfs and buffs that would massively improve the game

43 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Tester
629 posts
6,926 battles

So I think there are some serious problems with the game right now, that are crippling gameplay and promoting significant imbalance.

 

  • Inter-class balance is fundamentally broken, and BB's outrepresent DD's by 2:1.  A CV/BB/CA/DD ratio of 1:3:5:3 +/-1 of each provides the best balance for the game and is what WG said they were aiming for back in beta.  WG have said there are too many BB's, and that before the huge gun bloom change of 0.6.3 significantly skewed the balance to even more BB's and less DD's.

 

  • BB's have no real counters, and anything that can affect them negatively is easily minimised by adequate positioning. They remain very effective against cruisers, and do even more damage to DD's than they do to cruisers. They need nerfs.

 

  • DD's are far too inconsistent, and are generally underpowered.  You can have great games in them if you run into terrible BB players on the other team, but against good ones you have to play superbly to have an average game.  DD's are also far too easy to kill, especially compared to pre-0.6.3.  They need buffs (apart from the main RU DD line).

 

  • The vision meta is out of whack. There is too much smoke available and radar is too plentiful and too effective, and this makes it harder for people to move up with a reasonable chance of success.

 


Given these problems, I think significant changes are needed to the game to bring it closer to balance, and to make a more enjoyable game for all players.  These are the changes I believe should be made to the game.

 

Nerf all smoke duration by 30%. This will increase general vision on the battlefield, and mean ships who want to advance are less likely to be constantly discouraged by non-stop smoke.  Smoke remains as effective as ever for disengaging, but is nerfed for camping in.

 

Nerf all radars so they range from 7-9km.  Radar is far too effective against DD's at high tiers, and requires the radar ship to put themselves in very little actual risk to effectively eliminate enemy ships.  DD's are massively hindered in doing their jobs by a simple button push.  Durations would remain the same, but US radars would increase from 7-8km and RU radars from 8-9km as you advance through the tiers.  Radar is still a highly effective tool, but requires good positioning and awareness of your surroundings to use it without serious risk.  No more rolling up behind an island at the start of the battle and popping radar and enabling half your team to delete the enemy DD with no effort, thought or skill.

 

Adjust gun bloom time - 10s DD's, 20s CA/CL's, 35s BB's. The gun bloom nerf of 0.6.3 has massively increased DD damage taken, a huge direct nerf that has decimated DD numbers.  The removal of stealth fire is fine, but the increased chance of DD's remaining visible is ruining the game for all DD's.  A further rebalance is required, and this change to bloom times is by far the simplest and most sensible one.  WG said they tried this change and didn't like it because DD's popped in and out of concealment between salvos, but no DD in the game is going to pop in and out between continous salvos with a 10s gun bloom time.  It's absurd that the penalty for a 5" gun is the same as a 16" gun. The other thing is right now BB's do actually pop in and out of concealment between salvos, and this would fix that issue too.  This is a vital and necessary change to the game.

 

Nerf BB damage control from 80/120s out to 100/150s cool down. BB's take too little damage too slowly. They are far too forgiving to play, and any less than competent captain can be very successful in these ships.  A BB is simply not punished anywhere near as much as other classes for major mistakes in positioning. They need to take more damage, and this will increase their damage taken while allowing skilled captains to set themselves apart with smart cool down usage.

 

Increase the chance of fires on BB deck armour only by 50%.  A general nerf to BB's, and one that is designed to be more effective the further the ship is away.  If you want to bow snipe from 20km you can, but it will be much easier to set you on fire.  The closer you get the less likely shells will hit your deck armour and the less damage you will take from this change.

 

 

I believe these changes would massively benefit the game.  The DD to BB balance would be improved, and ships will be far more likely and capable of moving into the positions required to best do their jobs.  Battles would be much more fluid, and the game would be much better for all players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MEGA]
Member
4,675 posts
17,991 battles

apart from the radar nerf i think i would like these changes, DDs are really feeling a bit UP these days as they are just too damn easy to kill with anything, even their main prey: BBs do more damage to them then CAs (imho) and some BBs are doing too well, the blanket nerf to BBs should be looked into to adjust for the worst off ships at their tier *coughizumocough*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
6,604 posts
2,477 battles

The last and second last points are dull, very very unrealistic and non sense

 

Even in real life

HE shells are less likely to cause fire than the one in the game, the main reason why most warships in WW2 use AP shells even against much bigger target

 

The Damage control is their life saver against Fast firing Cruiser that THEY SUPPOSED TO COUNTER

Taking it away will completely remove their survivalbility advantage against Cruiser8

Edited by Harpoon01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LLBC]
Member
747 posts
6,928 battles

I have an alternate radar rework I had in mind for quite a while:

 

  • Reduce both the active time and cooldown by about 25-35%
  • +1/+2 to default charges
  • Keep the radar range as-is
  • Allied ships will know which ships are currently activating radar
  • The enemies will also know the source of the radar activations if there is at least one enemy ship picked up by the radar. This holds true even when the hostile source of radar is not currently spotted.

 

This will stop the radar from being the "you are screwed" button against destroyers. Two allied ships with radar will be less likely to waste charge by activating radars redundantly, and the enemies will know who exactly to flee from or delete.

Edited by Admiral_Neptulussus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,110 posts
7,850 battles

 the main reason why most warships in WW2 use AP shells even against much bigger target

 

Actualy no

HE is most commonly used Shells. the reason that once the battleship enter each other Immunity Zone. they can use up all their AP shell and wont make a dent - and then both Battleship part ways after both out of ammo

 

HE shell does heavy damage to superstructure of the ships, Even if the ships were not sunk and escape back to port,

they might be too expensive to repair or even not seaworthy again after repair - as what German High seas fleet suffer after Jutland

There many countries experimented with High payload HE shells, that designed to cause accumulative damage to the hull - notably French and Japan

the idea were you can still put enemy out of action longer (mission kill) through accumulated actions

 

loadout was mission spesific, so the numbers were not fixed but vary according to mission

however according to conway. by 1944 what considered balanced loadout were only around 24% of Ships ammunition were APC, the rest were both divided equaly with HE piercing (HE-AP as commonly said) and pure HE for shore bombardment (High Capacity HE for USN)

 

Edited by humusz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LLBC]
Member
747 posts
6,928 battles

 

Actualy no

HE is most commonly used Shells. the reason that once the battleship enter each other Immunity Zone. they can use up all their AP shell and wont make a dent - and then both Battleship part ways after both out of ammo

 

HE shell does heavy damage to superstructure of the ships, Even if the ships were not sunk and escape back to port,

they might be too expensive to repair or even not seaworthy again after repair - as what German High seas fleet suffer after Jutland

There many countries experimented with High payload HE shells, that designed to cause accumulative damage to the hull - notably French and Japan

the idea were you can still put enemy out of action longer (mission kill) through accumulated actions

 

loadout was mission spesific, so the numbers were not fixed but vary according to mission

however according to conway. by 1944 what considered balanced loadout were only around 24% of Ships ammunition were APC, the rest were both divided equaly with HE piercing (HE-AP as commonly said) and pure HE for shore bombardment (High Capacity HE for USN)

 

 

Interesting.

 

That could be somewhat mirrored in-game by distributing more HP into superstructures so that it will take more damages before it partially (and eventually fully) saturates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,718 posts
1,988 battles

 

Nerf all smoke duration by 30%. This will increase general vision on the battlefield, and mean ships who want to advance are less likely to be constantly discouraged by non-stop smoke.  Smoke remains as effective as ever for disengaging, but is nerfed for camping in.

 

What about the gun boats DD? Low tier USN DDs who don't have the awesome Torps their bigger brother have? They will get destroyed by the 152-chineguns.

Also a significant change to RN cruisers, not sure if it affects them too much.

The entire Hide-in-the-smoke thing is not as much as a problem when people can do Invisi-firing - just as Invisi-firing isn't all that much of a problem before all the CV nerfs. How about WG balance out their bloody game before just bandaging one thing just to screw up another. Thats my theory.

 

Nerf all radars so they range from 7-9km.  Radar is far too effective against DD's at high tiers, and requires the radar ship to put themselves in very little actual risk to effectively eliminate enemy ships.  DD's are massively hindered in doing their jobs by a simple button push.  Durations would remain the same, but US radars would increase from 7-8km and RU radars from 8-9km as you advance through the tiers.  Radar is still a highly effective tool, but requires good positioning and awareness of your surroundings to use it without serious risk.  No more rolling up behind an island at the start of the battle and popping radar and enabling half your team to delete the enemy DD with no effort, thought or skill.

 

Don't really bother me this.

 

Adjust gun bloom time - 10s DD's, 20s CA/CL's, 35s BB's. The gun bloom nerf of 0.6.3 has massively increased DD damage taken, a huge direct nerf that has decimated DD numbers.  The removal of stealth fire is fine, but the increased chance of DD's remaining visible is ruining the game for all DD's.  A further rebalance is required, and this change to bloom times is by far the simplest and most sensible one.  WG said they tried this change and didn't like it because DD's popped in and out of concealment between salvos, but no DD in the game is going to pop in and out between continous salvos with a 10s gun bloom time.  It's absurd that the penalty for a 5" gun is the same as a 16" gun. The other thing is right now BB's do actually pop in and out of concealment between salvos, and this would fix that issue too.  This is a vital and necessary change to the game.

 

Good change, but I don't think WG will do it because it will be "MUH BB CAN'T BE NERFED and WTF INVISIBLE DD" all over again and DD will probably be nerfed in someway or another again, lol.

 

Nerf BB damage control from 80/120s out to 100/150s cool down. BB's take too little damage too slowly. They are far too forgiving to play, and any less than competent captain can be very successful in these ships.  A BB is simply not punished anywhere near as much as other classes for major mistakes in positioning. They need to take more damage, and this will increase their damage taken while allowing skilled captains to set themselves apart with smart cool down usage.

 

No good. Your entire point of inter-class balance also invovles BB - which admittedly had always been the strongest class since....forever, but one of the tools they counter cruiser so well other than their big guns, is that they can eat fire, and repair it. Thats the entire point of  DC. Also - watch your BB burn 80% of the game doesn't seem all that fun and engaging to me as much as I despised BB.

 

Increase the chance of fires on BB deck armour only by 50%.  A general nerf to BB's, and one that is designed to be more effective the further the ship is away.  If you want to bow snipe from 20km you can, but it will be much easier to set you on fire.  The closer you get the less likely shells will hit your deck armour and the less damage you will take from this change.

 

If you think the other way, this will only make BB Kemp even harder because no one wants to risk being on fire all the time thus they use their range advantage. As if Kemping bush whole game is not enough.

 

 

Edited by Alvin1020

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
699 posts
7,546 battles

Well, in my opinion all classes should be rely on other classes to be effective...

 

As a BB player, let me share my thoughts, mainly high tier matches.

 

DDs still not easy to kill once it's like > 12KM away, and that's > 10KM away for Khaba. Difficult to hit with the shell dispersion from BB guns. Cruisers can deal with DD better at range like 12-13km, but that means they are exposed to enemy CA n BB fire.

 

Besides, when my team fall apart at one flank, and enemy DD has broken into the backyard, basically BB will have a super difficult time to be effective. Hunt down the DD? Difference in detection/concealemt is no joke. Defend the side? Well, need DD and CA support so not to get torped unexpectedly. BB still needs other class support to do anything.

 

In my opinion, DDs and BBs can turn the tide easier than most CAs.

 

Frankly, I do agree sniping BB is an issue need to be addressed.. Just... if increase deck fire chance, it'd be very painful for BB to disengage if situation turned ugly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMASW]
Member
1,557 posts

Another useless "my poor little DD " rant thread... anti BB

 

did you ever think that DDs are partially to blame for the increase in BB numbers??

 

All of these "Rambo" DDs that used to swan around, invisible, almost unhittable, unlimited torpedoes shot out at any which way, set fire to everything all the time....

 

So people started getting into BBs to try & survive all of this, its the only class of ship you can get into & enjoy the game, without dying in the first 5 minutes (unless you happen to be unfortunate)...

& also, I made it a PRIMARY. GOAL, to try & wipe out these little Rambos first, as we all know how much pain they cause, & so does nearly everyone, so they are not as bad as you make them out to be, they are feared by all except other DDs, so they are primary target number 1.

 

Also something else to consider... What ships do DDs target?? Do they go cap, or spot for their team, or escort their own battleships or cruisers?   No they don't, they all nick off because they want to go kill battleships, they all want the big glory kill, very rarely do I see DDs actually playing as part of a fleet...

 That's why WG nerfed them, they were too OP, there were matches with up to 6 DDs per side, what hope did BBs have then?  We all know that we get targeted by Rambo DDs, even nowadays...   So I don't feel sorry for DDs, they are still all powerful, still deadly, still single warrior Rambos after the glory kill of battleships, so they will still be the primary target to wipe out first in any match.

 

The games a bit different now, because we can fight back....

 

Ordrazz

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MEGA]
Member
4,675 posts
17,991 battles

 

The games a bit different now, because we can fight back....

 

Ordrazz

 

you could fight back with radar so many patches ago, you could have fought back with the sonar buff, you could have fought back with even a single DD spotting for the team, but no, you had to wait till DDs were nerfed to high hell to say that you could fight back, do you know a single shell from a BB can take out 30% of a DD's HP and he'd be crippled forthe rest of the match and there inst a thing he can do to reduce the damage that he takes? you can angle in a BB or CA to wonderful effect and mitigate damage?DDs are the worst off class in the game becsue of how bad the capping economy is and how situational radar, hydro, and RNCLs have made them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
205 posts
11,854 battles

Never ending smoke tactic is a thing and need to be look at. Its not fun to fight against with any class of ship in the game.
Battleships dealing monsterous damage on Destroyers at long range is common as well not just German Destroyers suffering from this its every Destroyers that happens to be spotted.
Don't use "No Counterplay" as an excuse please. Tell me how some cruisers and destroyers counter a long reaching range Battleships have with its small range really.
Cruisers kiting battleships and Destroyers hiding in a smoke for a reason so enough of this "No Counterplay" already.

HE and fire damage mostly comes from Cruisers and Battleships suppose to counter this so its fine the way it is right now. 

If you get focused fire by cruisers wolfpack or kited by one you're suppose to die simple as that. Don't say like battleships suppose to be invincible from cruisers.
As for radars the ideas behind this is making Cruisers more effective at dealing with Destroyers so I don't know about nerfing this. (Radar is also the only thing that counters smoke)
I would love to talk about the paradox devs created with the introduction ships like Missouri (A Battleship with radar) and USS Black (A Destroyer with radar) but that's not why we're here.

As for battleships population I think its because of the "Hunt for Bismarck" campaign going on.
And because there's more battleships around a DD taking monsterous damage from BB is likely to happen when its being focused. We'll see after this campaign is over.

Edited by MikuChrome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
181 posts
4,264 battles

Nerf all smoke duration by 30%. This will increase general vision on the battlefield, and mean ships who want to advance are less likely to be constantly discouraged by non-stop smoke.  Smoke remains as effective as ever for disengaging, but is nerfed for camping in.

Seriously? have you played german DDs? After this change the smoke will only be around for 12 seconds or something.

 

Adjust gun bloom time - 10s DD's, 20s CA/CL's, 35s BB's. The gun bloom nerf of 0.6.3 has massively increased DD damage taken, a huge direct nerf that has decimated DD numbers.  The removal of stealth fire is fine, but the increased chance of DD's remaining visible is ruining the game for all DD's.  A further rebalance is required, and this change to bloom times is by far the simplest and most sensible one.  WG said they tried this change and didn't like it because DD's popped in and out of concealment between salvos, but no DD in the game is going to pop in and out between continous salvos with a 10s gun bloom time.  It's absurd that the penalty for a 5" gun is the same as a 16" gun. The other thing is right now BB's do actually pop in and out of concealment between salvos, and this would fix that issue too.  This is a vital and necessary change to the game.

 

I do wish this happens though. Currently many are getting away firing far from cap points using concealment builds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,140 posts

change how radar work

buff it's range and active time but only show ship on mini-map, not a main screen that can be aim and shoot.

 

that's more than enough to force DD to change their position.

 

 

but... seriously, why are we talking about in there?

it's not like WG dev. team gonna read it anyway =w='a

Edited by PGM991

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
435 posts
6,221 battles

Another useless "my poor little DD " rant thread... anti BB

did you ever think that DDs are partially to blame for the increase in BB numbers??

All of these "Rambo" DDs that used to swan around, invisible, almost unhittable, unlimited torpedoes shot out at any which way, set fire to everything all the time....

So people started getting into BBs to try & survive all of this, its the only class of ship you can get into & enjoy the game, without dying in the first 5 minutes (unless you happen to be unfortunate)...

 & also, I made it a PRIMARY. GOAL, to try & wipe out these little Rambos first, as we all know how much pain they cause, & so does nearly everyone, so they are not as bad as you make them out to be, they are feared by all except other DDs, so they are primary target number 1.

 

Once again Ordrazz you think that everybody wants to play battleships only. Fact is that every human is different from one and another and this game can accommodate that by having four different classes, the game needs all four classes (even five classes would work too!). Battles with battleships and cruisers only suit the total aggressor and battles end before they start, carrier and destroyers stabilizes the battles and gives the game volume.

The original meta worked, destroyers leading (capping), cruisers reinforcing, battleships as capital ships and carriers blanketing the arena. This meta was all about teamwork too, uniform role playing and in fact the game has always been about teamwork with all four classes.

You should embrace destroyers because even average destroyers captains can influence the win rate more than any other class, this attitude is far better than giving destroyers the cold shoulder.

If you have “Rambo” destroyers, it’s a result of your team cruisers not executing their role.  

 

 

 

No they don't

 

Yes they do, well we used too!

Nowadays all battleships captains do is camp, they don’t tank for the team, they don’t take damage for the team and all they want to do is save their HP so they can last the whole game - ranting on a single class can go both ways!

Since battleships reserve there HP, cruisers won’t swooped into range to cover destroyers capping, so nowadays (as per your report) destroyers don’t even bother capping and just go after big fat juicy battleships who don’t even bother to zigzagging. But apparently only in your games, I didn’t really see this pattern in 2016, mostly there was a lot of teamwork, games were pretty enjoyable with all four classes and you got a real buzz when a team of strangers worked together.

"Courage is the better part of valour”, for battleships in WOWS that means tanking in a sea of torpedoes (or the cap), why don't you try it! you know one for the team stuff!

OP. The real key to balance is population. With high population you will get the classes balancing out, skill levels balancing better and battle longevity, well at least more games than not.  

Edited by BuckleUpBones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
6,604 posts
2,477 battles

I cant believe there is someone who said BB are afraid of DD

 

Personally i am more afraid of HE Barage and High tier air strike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMASW]
Member
1,557 posts

 

The original meta worked, destroyers leading (capping), cruisers reinforcing, battleships as capital ships and carriers blanketing the arena. This meta was all about teamwork too, uniform role playing and in fact the game has always been about teamwork with all four classes.

 

 

 

Yes it was good, back in the day teamwork was better than it is now, the good old days.

 

 

If you have “Rambo” destroyers, it’s a result of your team cruisers not executing their role

 

This is not the cause, but yes it is the effect.

cruisers too, don't want to do the role they were made for, like the dds they just fly off wanting to kill, never minding about the fleet, they don't cover the dds or bbs like they should, more often than not, they tend to "pass the buck" of the protection job to someone else, until there's no one left..

 

Yes they do, well we used too!

 

 

 

Used is the operative word here.

 

 

Nowadays all battleships captains do is camp, they don’t tank for the team, they don’t take damage for the team and all they want to do is save their HP so they can last the whole game - ranting on a single class can go both ways!

 

 

With some exceptions, including me, this is correct, & it is a wrong practice

 a battleships role is to get into the position to fight, support the smaller ships leading the attack, & to wipe out the larger ships in the enemy fleet, sitting at the rear camping is not the way to play a battleship, & those that do play like that are cowards....

 

Saying this however, proves my point into WHY BBs are doing this, because they are paranoid afraid of being wiped out by a Rambo DD.... You can see this yourself..  The other times it happens they are just plain stupid (happens in every class of ship)

 

 

 

Since battleships reserve there HP, cruisers won’t swooped into range to cover destroyers capping, so nowadays (as per your report) destroyers don’t even bother capping and just go after big fat juicy battleships who don’t even bother to zigzagging. But apparently only in your games, I didn’t really see this pattern in 2016, mostly there was a lot of teamwork, games were pretty enjoyable with all four classes and you got a real buzz when a team of strangers worked together.

 

Well, I don't know what times of day or night you play, or even what tier, but down here on planet earth, more often than not its either "stupid dumb potato team" who does nothing much & just sits there, or they wander around aimlessly until they get killed, or we get the " Lemming train" team, who can't work out any strategy, so they all follow one another to one side of the map, leaving caps & bases undefended, so then they either get killed en masse, or lose the game through capping....

 

Teamwork seems to be that magical pot of gold that everyone looks for, at the end of the rainbow, unless you happen to be in a div, or actually have members in the team who thinks.

 

 

"Courage is the better part of valour”, for battleships in WOWS that means tanking in a sea of torpedoes (or the cap), why don't you try it! you know one for the team stuff!

 

Well, why do you think my win rate is so low?? Because I AM out there, taking hits for my team, tanking shots, one for the team, i can not help it if the team happens to be one or more of the above...

 

My play style is agressive, esp in BB, so you can't sit back & say that I don't contribute MORE than my fair share, I'm not one who sits & camps, by & large I'm usually one of the last 3 players still alive near the end of the match, & its NOT because of camping, as I never do... Usually its because I have to do the role of 3 ships, because others want more kills to their name...

 

So you see, I do agree with large amounts of your post... I'm not going on about smoke, because I just wait it out or move on, & I'm not good using radar so I can't really comment, it would be fair I suppose to show which ship is using the radar, & I use my hydro as it helps me dodge the torps...

 

anyway...

I am aware I am not the only person in the game, & we are ALL allowed our own opinions, so I'll just sit back for a bit now...

 

:rolleyes:

Ordrazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
268 posts
6,381 battles

I'd rather see 5 battleships in a game, rather than 5 DDs. This applies to when I play cruisers as well as BBs.

 

It's the DDs that make people so afraid to push, as no one wants to sail into torp walls that come out of nowhere.

 

At least with BBs you generally know where they are and therefore can taken appropriate action (evade, engage etc)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
14 posts
34 battles

Nerf BB damage control from 80/120s out to 100/150s cool down. BB's take too little damage too slowly. They are far too forgiving to play, and any less than competent captain can be very successful in these ships.  A BB is simply not punished anywhere near as much as other classes for major mistakes in positioning. They need to take more damage, and this will increase their damage taken while allowing skilled captains to set themselves apart with smart cool down usage.

 

Increase the chance of fires on BB deck armour only by 50%.  A general nerf to BB's, and one that is designed to be more effective the further the ship is away.  If you want to bow snipe from 20km you can, but it will be much easier to set you on fire.  The closer you get the less likely shells will hit your deck armour and the less damage you will take from this change.

I think an extra change to this that would reduce camping is nerfing deceleration / max reverse speed. BBs would be unable to easily bow-camp and reverse out of the map fast enough / away from the cruisers; they would be forced to actively move about more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×