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cyqsimon

Team Killing and DOT Damage

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[PANTS]
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9,932 battles

Team killing is certainly hated by most players and is punishable by banning after multiple offences. But sometimes unintentional team killing happens and it's equally frustrating on the committing end. US destroyer captains probably know best - when you accidentally set a fire to a teammate sitting in the same smoke as you are, and they don't use damage control or don't have it available. Then after the game you found yourself pink. Depending on the amount of HP that ship has, it's even possible for you to become pink during the battle and start losing HP due to that same fire you set. It is easy to see that the punishment for such a benign (and accidental) mistake is far from reasonable.

 

Unintentional team damage by guns is so very common and thus should not induce great penalties due to the innocent nature of the action. AP naturally over penetrates superstructures so it's fine, but HE needs some help. A player should not be given pink status for several games simply because they shot a handful of HE shells onto a friendly ship by pure accident.

 

Quoting myself from a later reply (in which I think I did a better explanation of what I mean):

My problem with HE setting fires on teammates, is that it defeats the whole purpose of having a little bit of tolerance on the amount of team damage dealt before being given the pink status... The current system is great in the sense that it immediately gives warning in the form of text and audio, telling you to stop doing team damage, but not immediately penalizing. The idea is, if you stop immediately following the warning, then you can get away with more severe punishment.

However, if you set fire to a friendly ship (which could very well happen on the first shell you hit), the situation is already out of your hands before you can react to the warning. You keep doing team damage although you desperately intend to stop (assuming the victim doesn't use damage control). In this sense the warning is quite meaningless, and I think this is a contradiction to the philosophy of the pink status system.

 

 

Therefore I would suggest changing HE shell mechanics so that it has 0% chance of setting fire on friendly ships. Deliberate team killers can still do their thing (less easily now) and would still be punished, whereas accidental offenders would not be punished unnecessarily due to a lucky (or in this sense, unlucky) fire.

 

P.S.

Flooding is a different case as it can be only caused by torpedoes (and ramming, which only enemy ships can do), and I personally think players should be punished for launching bad torpedoes. However, considering torpedoes already deal a lot of alpha damage, I would argue that flooding is unnecessarily harsh for both the offender and the victim. Removing flooding by team would also make it consistent with the behavior of HE shells.

But again, I consider changing flooding mechanics much less important due to team damage by torpedo is much rarer than that by gun, and is more likely to be deliberate. That's why I'm putting this in P.S. section and not really pushing for it.

Edited by cyqsimon

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I don't think this would work, simply because if there was a way found to be able to attack a team mate without causing damage, we would suddenly end up with droves of idiots trying to do it, & the whole concept of dealing with team killing would go out the window, & everyone would leave the game in frustration..

 

While i acknowledge that you have given this some deep thought, i believe that making exceptions like these are just a invite for mass disturbance, & team killing to proliferate.

 

I am happy with the current system, although I wish that team killers would immediately sink & go pink, if they sank one of their team mates, instead of only turning pink & surviving, & if they start fires, then they should suddenly catch fire too.

 

Ordrazz

 

 

 

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[SIF]
Super Tester
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Unintentional team damage by guns is so very common and thus should not induce great penalties due to the innocent nature of the action. AP naturally over penetrates superstructures so it's fine, but HE needs some help. A player should not be given pink status for several games simply because they shot a handful of HE shells onto a friendly ship by pure accident.

 

Therefore I would suggest changing HE shell mechanics so that it has 0% chance of setting fire on friendly ships. Deliberate team killers can still do their thing (less easily now) and would still be punished, whereas accidental offenders would get away with it, as it ought to be.

 

 

​Team damage causes the same problems whether its intentional or accidental so the penalties should remain consistent.   Being malicious and doing it deliberately is no worse than being stupid and doing it accidently.  I've got no doubt that most of the player base has caused some kind of team damage and a large proportion of that have been pink at some.   There has to be some incentive to take care not to damage your team.

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......

Unintentional team damage by guns is so very common and thus should not induce great penalties due to the innocent nature of the action. AP naturally over penetrates superstructures so it's fine, but HE needs some help. A player should not be given pink status for several games simply because they shot a handful of HE shells onto a friendly ship by pure accident........

 

Just because it is common doesn't make it right. If you are close behind someone DON'T FIRE!. A player should be given pink if he fires a handful of shells onto a friendly.

 

There are plenty of times when I could have (possibly) finished an enemy but also (possibly) hit an ally. The solution is really simple, you wait till you have clear sight. If you think it's a close call then fire a single shot so that you don't risk a whole salvo. Nothing worse than losing lots of health because some greedy person can't wait a few seconds.

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[PANTS]
Member
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I don't think this would work, simply because if there was a way found to be able to attack a team mate without causing damage, we would suddenly end up with droves of idiots trying to do it, & the whole concept of dealing with team killing would go out the window, & everyone would leave the game in frustration..

 

While i acknowledge that you have given this some deep thought, i believe that making exceptions like these are just a invite for mass disturbance, & team killing to proliferate.

 

I am happy with the current system, although I wish that team killers would immediately sink & go pink, if they sank one of their team mates, instead of only turning pink & surviving, & if they start fires, then they should suddenly catch fire too.

 

Ordrazz

 

 

 

 

I don't think you understood what I meant. I suggested that HE no longer causes fires, not that they deal no damage.

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Alpha Tester
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Let's get it straight

 

 

You want HE shells that fired to ally ship to not cause fire

 

I support this along with Flooding caused by ally torp

Edited by Harpoon01

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[PANTS]
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​Team damage causes the same problems whether its intentional or accidental so the penalties should remain consistent.   Being malicious and doing it deliberately is no worse than being stupid and doing it accidently.  I've got no doubt that most of the player base has caused some kind of team damage and a large proportion of that have been pink at some.   There has to be some incentive to take care not to damage your team.

 

My problem with HE setting fires on teammates, is that it defeats the whole purpose of having a little bit of tolerance on the amount of team damage dealt before being given the pink status. When you are in something like a Khaba or Gearing, it's nearly impossible to observe your surrounding constantly because of the quick reload, so more often or not you will accidentally shoot a teammate. The current system is great in the sense that it immediately gives warning in the form of text and audio, telling you to stop doing team damage, but not immediately penalizing. The idea is, if you stop immediately following the warning, then you can get away with more severe punishment.

However, if you set fire to a friendly ship (which could very well happen on the first shell you hit), the situation is already out of your hands before you can react to the warning. You keep doing team damage although you desperately intend to stop (assuming the victim doesn't use damage control). In this sense the warning is quite meaningless, and I think this is a contradiction to the philosophy of the pink status system.

Sorry for not wording my argument as effectively as I could in my initial post. I hope this reply conveys my thoughts better.

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You don't automatically get the pink status in the first instance, unless you sink your ally, you hear a big voice booming " don't fire at your allies", & pink writing goes up into the chat box, warning you that you have hit such & such. If you do it again, same thing happens.

if you do it a third time, well I can only guess... The pink writing in the chat box doesn't mean you have turned pink...

 

Unless you have rearranged your firing buttons, the main way to accidentally fire your guns is to quickly zoom in & out with your mouse wheel, somehow it can pull the trigger.... The best way I find to deal with this is to point your guns to the side you choose & point them down, then press Ctrl x, which locks your guns, & when you get closer to your target, press Ctrl x again & they are free. This also helps you concentrate on getting into position without waiting on your guns to rotate, as you are doing it on route....

 

as for setting fires, I don't think it can be changed, to not start fires when hitting friendlies, as HE by its nature is to start fires, so the Best way to fix the solution, is to keep a close eye on your guns, where they point & where your allies are...

 

Ordrazz

 

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[PANTS]
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as for setting fires, I don't think it can be changed, to not start fires when hitting friendlies, as HE by its nature is to start fires

 

 

no.

Programmatically it is as easy as adding a conditional statement block.

To be concise, fire is the only issue I have with the current pink status system. I am well aware of how the warning system works and I don't think I need to be taught on game control.

To summarize further, team fire damage is a problem because it does not warn meaningfully before it punishes.

Hope that clarifies what I mean.

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