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Somedude_Yudachi

Shokaku VS Des Moines

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Super Tester
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i dont think so. or it depends. Usually u dont attack Desmoines unless u have too. Doing that would be unwise. U can always target AA-less Ship like IJN DDs

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When I saw the title, I thought this was another one of Skarhabek's CV going YOLO posts.

The answer is it depends. The build of both ships, the status of DM's remaining AA guns, how skilled the CV player is, and RNG all affect the outcome.

But don't try it unless really necessary.

#PilotsLivesMatter

Edited by _Halcyon

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Super Tester
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Sending two groups of VIII torp planes to attack Des Moines,is it possible to deploy a single torp if the des moines didnt activate defensive aa?

 

Theoretically, yes.

 

However, in practice, always assume the worst and never approach a DM unless hes literally the last guy that you need to dispatch NOW.

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Generally yes , however no pilot will come back alive to punch u in the face.

Fact is avoid them like the plague and make it the last thing u one to go against

To make a determined attack against it , move both ft inti it so the AA split up and tank AA fire so ur torp squad has enough time to drop their payload, also send ur 2 dive bombers in 1st to break AA module thereby increasing ur chances

 

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To make a determined attack against it , move both ft inti it so the AA split up and tank AA fire so ur torp squad has enough time to drop their payload,

 

Just wondering does this work?

 

I always thought that AA functions like an aura - the damage is not split among squadrons. All planes take the same amount of damage regardless whether it is one squadron or four. Only the squadron designated as a priority target takes more damage.

 

I would check the wiki but it seems to be down now.

Edited by Thyaliad

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Just wondering does this work?

 

I always thought that AA functions like an aura - the damage is not split among squadrons. All planes take the same amount of damage regardless whether it is one squadron or four. Only the squadron designated as a priority target takes more damage.

 

I would check the wiki but it seems to be down now.

It world like an aura , but i forget if it split damage between squads, but in my case i do notice that having more squad in the vicinity ensure that manual aa doesnt work ( the main culprit) and aside from that squads certainly live longer due to the left click can only target 1 , if the ship forget to change the left click target and focus on dodging it is even better.

This is a very neat trick as few have a good mind to care when a horde of strikes swarm them

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[MEGA]
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depends on the build and how damaged the DM is

full HP DM with full AA build= 0-1% chance of dropping torp

half< HP DM with full AA build =20-50% chance of dropping torp

full health DM with no AA build= 30% chance of dropping torp

half< HP DM with no AA build should be safe-ish to drop on

but since you cant really tell if he got HE spammed of citadel ed so it's debatable whether HP can be used as a indicator tho, so ask the other CV unicums here for better advice, the best advice i can give is, NEVER STRIKE A DM UNLESS YOU HAVE TO

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Alpha Tester
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Pretty much all ships that have very good AA must be avoided unless youhave higher tier than the said ship

 

Never use ryujo to bomb AA Built Gneisenau

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Super Tester
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A Des Moines that has no AA upgrades (such as BFT, AFT, etc.) and no Defensive Fire will let about...75% of the attack horde's torpedoes and bombs slip by.

 

A Des Moines with AA the 'bare minimum' for AA upgrades (BFT, AFT) will probably kill about 75-70% without Defensive Fire.

 

A Des Moines with BFT and AFT and the AA range extender (and no DFAA) would probably kill all. Maybe. Hard to say without testing.

 

Let us not even go to a Des Moines with MFAA...

Edited by Haku

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if the des moines is really really low and you have no other target to choose i think it's worth to take the risk, but if you have plenty other target it is best to avoid des moines or bait his DFAA, but still it is still better to just choose another target 

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When I saw the title, I thought this was another one of Skarhabek's CV going YOLO posts.

The answer is it depends. The build of both ships, the status of DM's remaining AA guns, how skilled the CV player is, and RNG all affect the outcome.

But don't try it unless really necessary.

#PilotsLivesMatter

 

No,I saw a replay about shokaku using its planes attack Des Moines,which is the last ship of the battle,if des moines is a 2nd aa rate cruiser,it supposed to shoot down all/half planes but shokaku sunk it with torps,it's a miracle 

Edited by Somedude_Yudachi

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why CV afraid of DM? its visible and its AA is avoidable or not as killer as Neptune, Minotaur and Missouri..... GG manual anti air -_-.... even Iowa with the same AA build is not match for them.

 

this is ship you must afraid in Shokaku :

#the smoked beef :

- Belfast

- Fletcher&Gearing with AA build plus AADF

- Neptune and Minotaur

- pesky khabarovsk dunno for other RU DD

>>because u cannt detect em but they have insane AA

 

#with obvious AADF

- Atlanta and Flint.... infinite amount of AADF

- Lo Yang... dunno for Anshan...

- Hood?

- other ship with AADF

>> even with weak AA, their panic shot just ANNOYING

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Yes, in fact my Des Moines never runs DFAA, and yes I've once been dropped by Shoukaku TBs (and died) because im one of the last guy around and have little to no HP.

 

Also, I think it's pretty safe to drop them on the late game, especially on a beaten up Des Moines since maybe some of his AA had already damaged/lost. But again, check your surroundings if there are any other droppable dudes other than AA blob.

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Stock DM vs Shokaku (no DFAA, no LMB)

24.73% chance (at 5km)

 

Stock DM vs Shokaku (LMB only)

32.15% (at 5km)

 

Stock DM vs Shokaku (DFAA only)

74.20% (at 5km)

 

Stock DM vs Shokaku (DFAA + LMB)

96.46% (at 5km)

 

DM (with AA mod 3) vs Shokaku

120.57% (at 5km)

 

DM (with BFT) vs Shokaku

115.57% (at 5km)

 

 

 

So how many of you still think Shokaku is blatantly OP?

Edited by Personator

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Stock DM vs Shokaku (no DFAA, no LMB)

24.73% chance (at 5km)

 

Stock DM vs Shokaku (LMB only)

32.15% (at 5km)

 

Stock DM vs Shokaku (DFAA only)

74.20% (at 5km)

 

Stock DM vs Shokaku (DFAA + LMB)

96.46% (at 5km)

 

DM (with AA mod 3) vs Shokaku

120.57% (at 5km)

 

DM (with BFT) vs Shokaku

115.57% (at 5km)

 

 

 

So how many of you still think Shokaku is blatantly OP?

If u want to compare OPness you should compare it to its tier 8 peers , this comparison is moot cause you are putting a tier 8 in the same shoe as a 10

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If u want to compare OPness you should compare it to its tier 8 peers , this comparison is moot cause you are putting a tier 8 in the same shoe as a 10

 

I'm putting out the fact that it can see Tier 10 & have a chance of being the only Tier 8 in a Tier 10 match, rendering it a nearly useless ship with the kind of AA at Tier 10. But if you want me to compare it & have it test out against a Tier 8, sure.

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (only LMB)

11.41% (3.5km-5km)

29.44% (2km-3.5km)

41.41% (0-2km)

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (LMB + BFT + signal)

15.06% (3.5km-5km)

38.86% (2km-3.5km)

54.66% (0-2km)

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (LMB + BFT + signal + MFAA)

30.13% (3.5km-5km)

53.92% (2km-3.5km)

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (full AA spec)

30.13% (5km-7km)

53.92% (2.9km-5km)

69.73% (0-2.9km)

 

Top config NC (full AA spec) vs Shokaku (with ASE)

28.70% (5km-7km)

51.36% (2.9km-5km)

66.41% (0-2.9km)

Basically negligible difference

 

Top config NC (full AA spec) vs Shokaku (with ASE + EM)

16.74% (5-7km)

29.96% (2.9km-5km)

38.74% (0-2.9km)

 

Top config NC (AFT + AA mod 2) vs Shokaku (with ASE + EM)

6.34% (5-7km)

16.35% (2.9km-5km)

23.01% (0-2.9km)

 

**Also note that Evasive Maneuvers applies only when the planes are returning to ship (HITTING 'F'), and thus is only used after dropping the bombs.

 

Additionally, these are all based off of Shokaku's TBs. Every other plane at her tier has less HP (Lexington's TBs are 1710), so the chances are relatively increased, and are significantly increased so for DBs (Shokaku's DBs are 1610; 1k HP less).

 

Keep in mind that these are % chance / second. This basically means that, say for attempting the attack, the NC has 1/4 chance to shoot down one of the TBs per second. (Also, don't forget that planes are slowed to 70% of their speed while under AA fire). So the planes are slowed down, giving the BB more time to shoot down the planes. When the TBs reach 5km, the chance is greatly increased, nearly 2-fold (to over 50%). So there is a high chance that the planes will all die before they even reach their target. And keep in mind that most CV players will attempt to drop within 5km to ensure the hit. 

 

Now let's factor in Evasive Maneuvers, which assumes that the planes reached their target. This further decreases the planes' speeds, rendering them at 50% speed (148*0.7*0.7). This gives the BB even more time to shoot down the planes, basically rendering the skill useless and pointless. The BB will still have a high chance of nearly 40% to shoot down the planes per second until they are 2.9km away from the ship.

 

And let's just say he wasn't even AA DPS spec'd at all. He'd still have a 23%, nearly 1/4 chance to shoot down your planes before they leave 2.9km.

 

40% / second is a high chance. If you try running that through a RNG, it'll pump out a hit chance enough times that basically all TBs will have died before they can even get out. Just set the approximate time to be about 15 seconds for the duration of the TBs to be within 5km / 3.5km.

Edited by Personator

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I'm putting out the fact that it can see Tier 10 & have a chance of being the only Tier 8 in a Tier 10 match, rendering it a nearly useless ship with the kind of AA at Tier 10. But if you want me to compare it & have it test out against a Tier 8, sure.

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (only LMB)

11.41% (3.5km-5km)

29.44% (2km-3.5km)

41.41% (0-2km)

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (LMB + BFT + signal)

15.06% (3.5km-5km)

38.86% (2km-3.5km)

54.66% (0-2km)

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (LMB + BFT + signal + MFAA)

30.13% (3.5km-5km)

53.92% (2km-3.5km)

 

Top config NC vs Shokaku (full AA spec)

30.13% (5km-7km)

53.92% (2.9km-5km)

69.73% (0-2.9km)

 

Top config NC (full AA spec) vs Shokaku (with ASE)

28.70% (5km-7km)

51.36% (2.9km-5km)

66.41% (0-2.9km)

Basically negligible difference

 

Top config NC (full AA spec) vs Shokaku (with ASE + EM)

16.74% (5-7km)

29.96% (2.9km-5km)

38.74% (0-2.9km)

 

Top config NC (AFT + AA mod 2) vs Shokaku (with ASE + EM)

6.34% (5-7km)

16.35% (2.9km-5km)

23.01% (0-2.9km)

 

**Also note that Evasive Maneuvers applies only when the planes are returning to ship (HITTING 'F'), and thus is only used after dropping the bombs.

 

Additionally, these are all based off of Shokaku's TBs. Every other plane at her tier has less HP (Lexington's TBs are 1710), so the chances are relatively increased, and are significantly increased so for DBs (Shokaku's DBs are 1610; 1k HP less).

 

Keep in mind that these are % chance / second. This basically means that, say for attempting the attack, the NC has 1/4 chance to shoot down one of the TBs per second. (Also, don't forget that planes are slowed to 70% of their speed while under AA fire). So the planes are slowed down, giving the BB more time to shoot down the planes. When the TBs reach 5km, the chance is greatly increased, nearly 2-fold (to over 50%). So there is a high chance that the planes will all die before they even reach their target. And keep in mind that most CV players will attempt to drop within 5km to ensure the hit. 

 

Now let's factor in Evasive Maneuvers, which assumes that the planes reached their target. This further decreases the planes' speeds, rendering them at 50% speed (148*0.7*0.7). This gives the BB even more time to shoot down the planes, basically rendering the skill useless and pointless. The BB will still have a high chance of nearly 40% to shoot down the planes per second until they are 2.9km away from the ship.

 

And let's just say he wasn't even AA DPS spec'd at all. He'd still have a 23%, nearly 1/4 chance to shoot down your planes before they leave 2.9km.

 

40% / second is a high chance. If you try running that through a RNG, it'll pump out a hit chance enough times that basically all TBs will have died before they can even get out. Just set the approximate time to be about 15 seconds for the duration of the TBs to be within 5km / 3.5km.

 

Why now it is a nice comparison , NC is iconic in that it has very good AA.

It is a shame though that Iowa and Montana share the same AA and Montana doesnt really improve the suite while Missouri has a better mid range AA than them

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