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potato18

Bismarcks Secondaries better than tier 10 battleships?

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So we all know War Gaming likes to throw their historical accuracy out the window at times, but I would not have realized this if I didn't see it for myself, I am a Yamato captain fully built for secondary action, the max range that I can get my secondaries up to is 10.6 kms, I was in a training match with another player who captains a Bismarck also secondary built, however being the aggressive person that I am I rushed in softened the enemy team and died fairly quickly and as expected my secondary guns started opening up at 10.6 kms, now I realize that Bismarck has better secondaries than the Yamato in some aspects, but what I didn't expect is that my friend in the Bismarck had his secondaries going off at a target 10.9 - 11.1 kms away, and his ship is tier 8, now if this is actually a part of the game I believe that because Yamato's 155mm secondary guns were literally taken off a Mogami class cruiser they should have the same range as when they were on the cruiser 14.2 kms, because balance wise I do not think for a second why Bismarck should have better secondary capabilities than a ship that is 2 tiers higher than it, Großer Kurfürst  I can understand but oh wait it has 10.6 km secondaries just like me, not this far fetched ridiculousness of 11 km secondaries on the Bismarck, so I ask why Bismarck should be the all round seasoned fighter with impenetrable armor better secondaries than tier 10 battleships a relatively high speed and faster rate of fire with main guns that hit harder than 460mm guns, they are taking a ship that was powerful in some but not all ways and giving it extraordinary combat capabilities that don't seem to match what the real Bismarck was capable of if it was implemented into a game, War Gaming if you even have the slightest bit of attention to listen to what we are saying you should tend to this issue.

why.jpg

Edited by potato18

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Maybe you forgot to put on the Mike Yankee Soxisix signal? Because that flags can increase your secondaries range by 5%.

No I haven't forgotten and as you can see it is still 10.6 kms

 

nope.jpg

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Based on the image provided the enemy is listed as 10.9km away from the Camera and maybe not necessarily the ship. 300m in WoWS is like a tiny distance so that might explain it.

 

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Based on the image provided the enemy is listed as 10.9km away from the Camera and maybe not necessarily the ship. 300m in WoWS is like a tiny distance so that might explain it.

 

 

​I  think you may be right mate. I'm running a secondary spec Bismarck w/"Mike Yankee" & I get 10.6km maximum range.

 

 

 

BismarckRange.png

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... why Bismarck ... impenetrable armor ... with main guns that hit harder than 460mm guns...

 

Wllsuzs.gif

 

 

As far as the secondaries go, their potency is much more complicated than just range. In general terms, Yamato has the more powerful and versatile suite. Bismarck, however, is better at starting fires but that's about it - most of her firepower comes from the 105mm batteries which will often shatter (Akizuki Syndrome) on common targets, dealing zero damage. That's not to say she's got bad secondaries, just that they're not quite at Tier 10 level.

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Bismarck player here. Secondaries max out at 10.6 km only and that is with AFT, secondary upgrade and flag. What I see in the picture is distance from the camera since you are in free-look mode.

Now I respectfully disagree with what you said here:

why Bismarck should be the all round seasoned fighter with impenetrable armor better secondaries than tier 10 battleships a relatively high speed and faster rate of fire with main guns that hit harder than 460mm guns, they are taking a ship that was powerful in some but not all ways and giving it extraordinary combat capabilities that don't seem to match what the real Bismarck was capable of if it was implemented into a game, War Gaming if you even have the slightest bit of attention to listen to what we are saying you should tend to this issue.

Bismarck doesn't have impenetrable armor. Sure he is relatively immune to citadel hits, but Bismarck eats a lot of penetration damage especially from USN AP. Thanks to the huge superstructure.

Bismarck has good rate of fire but your Yamato can equal that as it has access to the reload module.

Bismarck's 15-inch guns are no match to your Yamato 18 inchers. In fact, Bismarck suffers from a lot of shell shatters and bounces when facing T10 ships. I even got 4 shells just to shatter at the main belt of a broadside Yamato. Meanwhile Yamatos can deal 10k salvos at angled Bismarcks any day if Yamato's captain know where to aim.

As a Bismarck captain,  I would never ever 1v1 you if you're in your Yamato. :ohmy:

 

Oh I forgot, common Bismarck scenario: Successful ambush,you have the perfect broadside shot at point blank range, aim is good, FIRE!!! Then.......dispersion...:amazed:

Edited by KirstieBeau

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Bismarck player here. Secondaries max out at 10.6 km only and that is with AFT, secondary upgrade and flag. What I see in the picture is distance from the camera since you are in free-look mode.

Now I respectfully disagree with what you said here:

Bismarck doesn't have impenetrable armor. Sure he is relatively immune to citadel hits, but Bismarck eats a lot of penetration damage especially from USN AP. Thanks to the huge superstructure.

Bismarck has good rate of fire but your Yamato can equal that as it has access to the reload module.

Bismarck's 15-inch guns are no match to your Yamato 18 inchers. In fact, Bismarck suffers from a lot of shell shatters and bounces when facing T10 ships. I even got 4 shells just to shatter at the main belt of a broadside Yamato. Meanwhile Yamatos can deal 10k salvos at angled Bismarcks any day if Yamato's captain know where to aim.

As a Bismarck captain,  I would never ever 1v1 you if you're in your Yamato. :ohmy:

 

Oh I forgot, common Bismarck scenario: Successful ambush,you have the perfect broadside shot at point blank range, aim is good, FIRE!!! Then.......dispersion...:amazed:

 

also bismarck player here and i agree

 

yes it is hard to hit bismarck citadel but it is very easy to get penetration, bismarck and most german battleships has a very large superstructure that is really prone to normal damage and also fires.

And regarding to gun, Bismack gun is not even close to yamato gun, yamato can lolpen any battleship bow regardles of angle while bismarck guns sometimes failed to penetrate enemy battleship main belt at broadside, and also bismarck suffers from not very good dispersion while yamato gun is the most accurate gun available in the game and also has the best range.

Aabout the secondaries yes bismarck might be has better secondaries than yamato that's because german battleships are literally made for brawling in this game, that's why they have bad accuracy compared to other battleship because WG wants them to get close to the enemy, not sniping like IJN Battleship.

and incase you didn't know german battleship formula for HE penetration is caliber/4 while the other is caliber/6, so yeah bismarck is better in secondaries.

Edited by Teostra

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Based on the image provided the enemy is listed as 10.9km away from the Camera and maybe not necessarily the ship. 300m in WoWS is like a tiny distance so that might explain it.

 

 

So basically just a little glitch? I mean I was viewing the ship in spectator mode exactly so the camera should be lined up with the view point of the ship, and when I asked my friend if he was shooting at the target from 10.9 he agreed that it was rather strange because he was seeing it too, and he was in command of the ship.

Edited by potato18

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Its not a glitch, you should remember that shells takes some time flying in the air.

The impression that Bismarck gets 11km secondaries is because it fires the last secondaries salvo at 10.6km distance while both ships are sailing away from each other.

Taking account the shell travel time plus the dispersion, I think it makes sense on why you thought its secondaries can shoot further even though its not.

 

Regarding the secondaries, yes Bismarck currently have the best secondaries capability tier for tier and its the main reason why it should be specced that way. And it gets better on GK.

German 128mm and 150mm secondaries gun shoots HE and have 1/4 HE penetration instead of 1/6 that other nation gets. With IFHE, GK secondaries have enough penetration to go through 32mm of armor.

That is double the penetration of secondaries from other nation which means it can pretty much kill anything.

 

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Bismarck has good rate of fire but your Yamato can equal that as it has access to the reload module.

 

Not really recommend it since Yamato already has abysmal traverse, install that module on and your guns will turn even slower.

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So basically just a little glitch? I mean I was viewing the ship in spectator mode exactly so the camera should be lined up with the view point of the ship, and when I asked my friend if he was shooting at the target from 10.9 he agreed that it was rather strange because he was seeing it too, and he was in command of the ship.

 

you were kiteing and he was coming towards you no? in that case the secondary reach up to 11kms on the display, i think it's that the shells can fly 10.6km, and if he is coming towards you then the distance is reduced as he is covering ground as well

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Its not a glitch, you should remember that shells takes some time flying in the air.

The impression that Bismarck gets 11km secondaries is because it fires the last secondaries salvo at 10.6km distance while both ships are sailing away from each other.

Taking account the shell travel time plus the dispersion, I think it makes sense on why you thought its secondaries can shoot further even though its not.

 

Regarding the secondaries, yes Bismarck currently have the best secondaries capability tier for tier and its the main reason why it should be specced that way. And it gets better on GK.

German 128mm and 150mm secondaries gun shoots HE and have 1/4 HE penetration instead of 1/6 that other nation gets. With IFHE, GK secondaries have enough penetration to go through 32mm of armor.

That is double the penetration of secondaries from other nation which means it can pretty much kill anything.

 

 

but you need to sacrifice a LOT of skill points to do that and sometimes it just isnt worth the investment

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 yamato can lolpen any battleship bow regardles of angle

 

I have to disagree with you here my 460mm guns tend to bounce and shatter a lot off German bows, the so called fat freddy is one example and the kurfurst is the other, as well as that I can not over match Bismarcks bow directly the only time I do a lot of damage to the bow is if my shells go through the deck, as well as that I have come to notice that when facing German battleships the only thing that can score citadel hits on them is other German battleships.

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Its not a glitch, you should remember that shells takes some time flying in the air.

The impression that Bismarck gets 11km secondaries is because it fires the last secondaries salvo at 10.6km distance while both ships are sailing away from each other.

Taking account the shell travel time plus the dispersion, I think it makes sense on why you thought its secondaries can shoot further even though its not.

 

Regarding the secondaries, yes Bismarck currently have the best secondaries capability tier for tier and its the main reason why it should be specced that way. And it gets better on GK.

German 128mm and 150mm secondaries gun shoots HE and have 1/4 HE penetration instead of 1/6 that other nation gets. With IFHE, GK secondaries have enough penetration to go through 32mm of armor.

That is double the penetration of secondaries from other nation which means it can pretty much kill anything.

 

 

Actually that's incorrect when I was watching him playing the Bismarck the two ships were actually engaged in a pursuit with eachother so the Colorado was actually chasing after the Bismarck when his secondaries started opening up at 10.9 kms.

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I have to disagree with you here my 460mm guns tend to bounce and shatter a lot off German bows, the so called fat freddy is one example and the kurfurst is the other, as well as that I can not over match Bismarcks bow directly the only time I do a lot of damage to the bow is if my shells go through the deck, as well as that I have come to notice that when facing German battleships the only thing that can score citadel hits on them is other German battleships.

 

nah, yamatos and montanas can citadel KMBBs just fine as well if the conditions are right, i ever got a citadel on the GK with a derpitz once

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..... the Bismarck had his secondaries going off at a target 10.9 - 11.1 kms away.....

FYI in the picture you show it indicates that your camera is 0.5km from the ship. So 11.1 - 0.5 = 10.6km. Matches specs.

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 i ever got a citadel on the GK with a derpitz once

 

derpitz, you mean a Tirpitz? Well if I'm not mistaken that's a German battleship, I am not out right saying that they can't citadel them, it's just very rare and in my case a few others in our clan we can never citadel German battleships.

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FYI in the picture you show it indicates that your camera is 0.5km from the ship. So 11.1 - 0.5 = 10.6km. Matches specs.

 

Oh it does too my derpness for not noticing, strange I would've thought that by viewing the ship directly the camera would be at the same distance as if you were sailing the ship yourself.

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but you need to sacrifice a LOT of skill points to do that and sometimes it just isnt worth the investment

 

But in the end, that's the main reason why you go for the KM BB line. If you don't go for secondaries on them you probably chosen the wrong line.

 

 

I have to disagree with you here my 460mm guns tend to bounce and shatter a lot off German bows, the so called fat freddy is one example and the kurfurst is the other, as well as that I can not over match Bismarcks bow directly the only time I do a lot of damage to the bow is if my shells go through the deck, as well as that I have come to notice that when facing German battleships the only thing that can score citadel hits on them is other German battleships.

 

 

Because Freddy and GK are the only BBs in the game with enough (effective) bow armor to bounce Yamato shells. Bismarck bow is still overmatchable but its going to be hard to citadel it because of how low the citadel are.

Any BBs can citadel KM BBs, you just need to snipe them at long range.

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nah, yamatos and montanas can citadel KMBBs just fine as well if the conditions are right, i ever got a citadel on the GK with a derpitz once

 

And the rest. I am only up to T9 BB's and I also see my share of KM BB citadels.

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the thing is, german AP seems to have less penn then USN or IJN AP, so it's weird that you would think that only KMBBs can citadel other KM BBs since they actually have worse penn

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But in the end, that's the main reason why you go for the KM BB line. If you don't go for secondaries on them you probably chosen the wrong line.

 

true, i struggle in the GK even though im a fairly old hand in BBs, she takes a ton of damage from every angle, have to show a massive broadside to make use of his maximal fire power, gets burned almost as shark guy(you know who), and generally isnt that fun to play

 

my build for it now is PM,AR,SI,CE,AFT and MS, any suggestions on how to spec it better?

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the thing is, german AP seems to have less penn then USN or IJN AP, so it's weird that you would think that only KMBBs can citadel other KM BBs since they actually have worse penn

 

But it's happened to me, I can never citadel a Kurfurst in a Yamato, however sailing another Kurfurst I can get anywhere up to 3 citadels on them.

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