Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
S4pp3R

The CV issue(s)

29 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

225
[151ST]
Member
1,013 posts
4,521 battles

CVs are broken atm, and I'm not talking about 'OP', I'm talking about useless...

Ok, no manual drop - that's stupid and has made CVs in low tiers utter bollocks but that is not my primary issue.

 

The loadouts are all bonkers.

eg. Zuiho v Bogue

You can have a situation where Bogue has 14 fighters in 2 wings vsing Zuihos 4 in 1 wing. And yes I realise this was influenced by Captain Perks, but still 12 v 4 is stupid. I could handle 8 v 12, but 4 v 14 is simply stupid.

 

And I know this imbalance goes way up the tiers, swinging both to either nation with various configs.

 

So my suggested solution:
- Firstly why remove manual drop? Newer players? Removing it has removed 50% of the skill involved in playing CVs in the first place. (The other 50 being positioning of ship/planes).

- Reduce the variation in the CVs loadouts. There should never be a situation where the numerically superior USN wings have more fighter wings than a IJN loadout,

- The primary variation in CV loadouts should be between DB v TB, make it so a DB build is viable and equally a TB build is viable. If the Loadouts tier-tier have balanced fighter wings, make the loadout variation in how many TB or DBs they can bring to the battle.

- Eliminate pure fighter loadouts, I'm sorry I know there are CV Captains out there who LOVE to control the skies, sweet - but with pure fighter loadouts you kill planes and spot, that's it.

- Eliminate the variation in wing sizes between USN/IJN, this basically made balancing the whole thing a nightmare in the first place. Have the variation in speed or damage or health.

- Let people be punished for being out of position. AA when ships group up being insane? That's fine, hell even buff it a bit at some tiers. Solo ships should feel fear when they see TB/DB wings closing in. To compensate, introduce proper tutorials about how to have effective AA (in this scenario, by staying with the fleet).

 

So happy I didn't spend a load of creds and XP getting higher tier CVs when the entire ship type is crud.

Edited by S4pp3R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
2,500 posts
1,535 battles

- Eliminate pure fighter loadouts, I'm sorry I know there are CV Captains out there who LOVE to control the skies, sweet - but with pure fighter loadouts you kill planes and spot, that's it.

 

Link

 

The only pure fighter loadout I ever remember existing.

If you mean Aerial Superiority (AS) loadouts in general, yeah, the only things AS loadouts do is sweep the skies clear, spot DDs, torpedoes, other ships and bombing targets of opportunity

for ~30k avg dmg per game if done right and not having to suffer through +2 tier AA.

 


 

@CV Loadouts:

I'll just make an educated guess and state that the current CV loadouts are remnants of the past.

 

You see, in alpha the US CVs basically had two viable loadouts:

AS and Strike

 

AS loadouts had 3(!) fighter squadrons starting with Saipan (Tier VI techtree CV back then, Independence was the tier V) and Strike loadouts

had 1 fighter squadron if I remember correctly.

 

Some time later, around the introduction of JP CVs these were nerfed to 2 fighter squadrons throughout the majority of tiers,

basically removing the ability to lock down the entire map by yourself.

I.e. back then, with 3 fighter squadrons, there was no way an enemy CV could sneak past you for as long as you had 1 squadron in west/mid/east,

which were fast enough to support each other if a breakthrough attempt was started.

 

It's still possible to lock down the map these days, however it mostly relies on bad situational awareness and lack of tactical finesse on the opposing side.

 

The introduction of the JP CV line also seemed to have been following a very WoT-esque ideology for variety between nations.

However the execution was always rather sloppy, which was fine for alpha/beta, however to still have them in this very basic

ideology almost two years post release... well, let's just say it's not very satisfactory.

 

The core ideology still being: US CVs are better at keeping the skies clear and JP CVs doing the heavy duty bombing.

 

Since the introduction of JP CVs there hasn't really been any major changes to the loadouts.

As with most core mechanics surrounding carriers Wargaming seems to be working internally on whatever changes they

could make to improve carrier gameplay altogether.

 

No clue how far Wargaming has come in that process and no idea how deep these changes could potentially go.

I still hope that WG won't just go the easy path, like they did with the removal of manual drops/strafe at low tiers.

 


 

@AA

 

Personally I think that some AA, especially when facing 2 tiers higher ships, is way too strong at the moment.

I've never been a fan of the whole "Click button to solve problem" idea with either AA or Radar consumables to begin with.

I'd rather see WG manage to balance it out between AA strength and having to maneuver and dodge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
225
[151ST]
Member
1,013 posts
4,521 battles

The only pure fighter loadout I ever remember existing.

If you mean Aerial Superiority (AS) loadouts in general, yeah, the only things AS loadouts do is sweep the skies clear, spot DDs, torpedoes, other ships and bombing targets of opportunity

for ~30k avg dmg per game if done right and not having to suffer through +2 tier AA.

 

Yeah, I meant AS loadouts...

 

Since the introduction of JP CVs there hasn't really been any major changes to the loadouts.

As with most core mechanics surrounding carriers Wargaming seems to be working internally on whatever changes they

could make to improve carrier gameplay altogether.

 

No clue how far Wargaming has come in that process and no idea how deep these changes could potentially go.

I still hope that WG won't just go the easy path, like they did with the removal of manual drops/strafe at low tiers.

 

The fact that this is still and issue years after release really annoys me and you'd hope that they would have had a fix by now.

 

@AA

 

Personally I think that some AA, especially when facing 2 tiers higher ships, is way too strong at the moment.

I've never been a fan of the whole "Click button to solve problem" idea with either AA or Radar consumables to begin with.

I'd rather see WG manage to balance it out between AA strength and having to maneuver and dodge.

 

AA in general is too strong at the moment, which is what I was trying to say, nerf it but have a slight multiplier when x ships are within AA range to encourage people to stay with the fleet.

 

Between how useless IJN DDs are and how silly the CV situation is at the moment, it bugs me and is why I don't play more than a handful of matches a week (when I actually play). Contributing reasons as to why Warships is a secondary game for me now rather than one I sink hours into...

 

Kinda feels like they added content to pander to the 'nerf torps OMG OP' crowd and in the meantime the majority of the community has worked out when to dodge and how to avoid them. <<<IMO

Edited by S4pp3R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,174 posts
10,495 battles

Well yeah 201 Bogue is just (U know what)... and even when I play bogue 110 loadout 201 is just too powerful and at that tier ships don't even have enough AA to compensate for that...

Then again WG has removed Alt attacks for T5 which is fine but they decreased the radius of auto drop circles but T6 CVs are still getting T5 CVs which means no matter how much you(as a T5 CV) try to avoid T6 CV's strafe you just cannot and you have to lock up even if you save your plane which means you'll still be losing planes... and you cannot always expect T6 CV on your team to be good enough most of the times they are busy farming damage...

But no WG doesn't consider these things it has to implement their changes and forget about it... everyone wanted CV rework yes and I'm more than happy with removal of alt attacks but why didn't they restrict the MM...
 

201 Bogue is OP... everyone knows it but no for WG it is balanced... and they had to increase Fighters Hit Points to make them more than it was... I mean does WG really think the consequences? Or 

Just Implement the changes and we will look at stats...(which for CVs they don't even bother looking)

yeah I only talk about T4-T6 CVs because I only play them and not gonna comment on higher tiers because it might get lot of players salty

Edited by Aaditya_AJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
1,056 posts
9,013 battles

CVs have huge issues ranging from balance to UI. Hopefully WG does not screw it up

 

As a certain salty someone once told me: "Have your hopes high, but keep your expectations low."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
346 posts

Still grinding Langley as a new player

 

Good luck

 

 

just play strike loadout and rush to Essex

recommended using Premium account

 

I would recommend not playing strike loadout unless you are oblivious to chat happening on left side of your screen or are mentally strong enough to continue playing despite one or more players hate preaching your lack of fighters until tier 9 and 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LNA]
Member
1,660 posts
10,447 battles

 

Good luck

 

 

I would recommend not playing strike loadout unless you are oblivious to chat happening on left side of your screen or are mentally strong enough to continue playing despite one or more players hate preaching your lack of fighters until tier 9 and 10

Well they give up complaining and resort to abusing reports instead , it is not rare for a scrublord to rage war on the keyboard for how cv should play when he himself doesnt know what hardship cv are facing.

Loadout plain sucks for US cv, WG should focus on cv rework before releasing any new cv to the game.

Current cv problem:

Division abuse of powerful AA ship +cv to guarantee screwing up planes

Overall strength of AA is too high , there is not a lot of targets for cv to choose , esp when playerbase has known to stick into a big stack of doom , rendering cv only able to shine when the enemy do something stupid.

Unbalanced loadout face up between IJN and USN carrier , most high tier are dominated by IJN carriers which are plain better , USN specialist loadout are not working as intended because they are too extreme and RNG based.

The meta of camping make cv esp USN much worse because team never push far enough for cv to hide.

It is extremely easy to deal with USN cv in a high tier match if IJN db decide to permaspot it and make their FTs run around like chicken.

BB camper sniper will take care of the rest and not even blueline hugging will do any good if that db is not killed and take all your attention away from battle.

Manual AA make Neptune and Minotaur effectively immune to USN strike due to RNG and reliancs on DB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
2,500 posts
1,535 battles

Still grinding Langley as a new player

 

Do whatever you can do buff your fighters, try to align your dive bombers to hit the length of a ship instead of the broadside

and hope that people have zero situational awareness for your torpedo bombers.

 

What does work against low AA BBs is to fly your torpedo bombers in from one side and if he turns fly over him and drop from the other side.

Worst case scenario the player is good enough to keep compensating, but that slows him down more and more until no amount of maneuvering skill

can save them from atleast eating 1-2 torpedoes.

 

 

just play strike loadout and rush to Essex

recommended using Premium account

 

I disagree, Bogue is best played with the AS loadout and in a division.

If the stock loadout was 1/1/1 instead of 1/1/0 I'd pick that though (And if the drop circle for DBs for Bogue wasn't Death Star size)... but... it isn't so AS it is.

 

This usually results in plenty of exp/credits from the Clear Skies farmed and an average damage of 16k to 25k depending on RnG

and well chosen targets.

 

On the Independence I'd recommend the stock loadout since it grants the player a nicely balanced set of aircrafts, plus with the re-introduction of

manual drop and strafing it's quite possible to deal lots of damage while obliterating enemy aircrafts.

It does require some skill when facing off against either AS Ryuujou or Independence players, but hurr... better learn how to do that now rather than at tier VIII.

 

Ranger I'd go with AS+division again.

Mainly because AS Ranger is the only thing I've met so far that can deal with a decent Saipan player.

Plus 9k bomb drops with additional fires (+fire% flags, yoho) are actually quite nasty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,105 posts

Division abuse of powerful AA ship +cv to guarantee screwing up planes

 

Agree, CV SHOULD BE BANNED FROM DIVISION! enemy have good CV with ultra AA division, dang i cannt do anything....  except from protecting from enemy bomber. this is frustating THAT ENEMY HAVE BETTER TEAM...... damned, well, the OP premium AA ship is mostly on tier 8/7 so no BIG DEAL on Hakuryu, the problem is Minotaur...... the only remaining problem.....

 

its AA more insane than AA build DES MOINES!

also missoury too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
2,314 posts
7,096 battles

 

Agree, CV SHOULD BE BANNED FROM DIVISION! enemy have good CV with ultra AA division, dang i cannt do anything....  except from protecting from enemy bomber. this is frustating THAT ENEMY HAVE BETTER TEAM...... damned, well, the OP premium AA ship is mostly on tier 8/7 so no BIG DEAL on Hakuryu, the problem is Minotaur...... the only remaining problem.....

 

its AA more insane than AA build DES MOINES!

also missoury too!

 

BBS shouldn't division as well than...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
225
[151ST]
Member
1,013 posts
4,521 battles

I honestly haven't seen divs just to protect a CV that often, I don't think restricting CVs to solo play is the answer...

But essentially you want to punish players for playing properly? I'm sorry but that's a flipping horrible idea, if anything more AA protection for CVs and BBs should be encouraged as that is good team play.

 

And why would you restrict BBs in divs? I have no problems vsing BBs in Myoko, Atago and Ibuki...

Or was that a reference to the AA protection??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,105 posts

BBS shouldn't division as well than...

 

well, BB and other ship are fine. but CV with division can be ultimate OP, it got ultra AA ally or good BB damager. when both CV become stale or useless, their pro BB will smack your own team and nothing you can do to kill them. its depend on the team to sunk them. just saying 70K damage is not enough to kill both BB. and they will heal -_-

 

I honestly haven't seen divs just to protect a CV that often, I don't think restricting CVs to solo play is the answer...

But essentially you want to punish players for playing properly? I'm sorry but that's a flipping horrible idea, if anything more AA protection for CVs and BBs should be encouraged as that is good team play.

 

And why would you restrict BBs in divs? I have no problems vsing BBs in Myoko, Atago and Ibuki...

Or was that a reference to the AA protection??

[btw, its the CV need to be restricted.]

its the opposite, the CV protect that BB with parking fighter. the BB are OP and should be deleted earlier, with the CV protecting them 24/7 its become hard to sunk them. well, attacking/sinking other SHIP WONT HELP! why? because that PRO BB will carry the game like a boss.....

 

this is the reason they need to BUFF DD with GG invisfiring and better torpedo range and LESS detonation. CA dont need buff, except nerf for AA when inside the smoke.

 

they need to balance the paper and rock and knife.... DD need to do their job by killing BB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
2,314 posts
7,096 battles

I honestly haven't seen divs just to protect a CV that often, I don't think restricting CVs to solo play is the answer...

But essentially you want to punish players for playing properly? I'm sorry but that's a flipping horrible idea, if anything more AA protection for CVs and BBs should be encouraged as that is good team play.

 

And why would you restrict BBs in divs? I have no problems vsing BBs in Myoko, Atago and Ibuki...

Or was that a reference to the AA protection??

 

I'm typing it out of spite against him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LNA]
Member
1,660 posts
10,447 battles

I honestly haven't seen divs just to protect a CV that often, I don't think restricting CVs to solo play is the answer...

But essentially you want to punish players for playing properly? I'm sorry but that's a flipping horrible idea, if anything more AA protection for CVs and BBs should be encouraged as that is good team play.

 

And why would you restrict BBs in divs? I have no problems vsing BBs in Myoko, Atago and Ibuki...

Or was that a reference to the AA protection??

You honestly have no idea what a fishing division with those setup can do at tier 9 and 10 domt you. Trust me its not a fun one and it is no longer random

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
346 posts

Well they give up complaining and resort to abusing reports instead , it is not rare for a scrublord to rage war on the keyboard for how cv should play when he himself doesnt know what hardship cv are facing.

Loadout plain sucks for US cv, WG should focus on cv rework before releasing any new cv to the game.

Current cv problem:

Division abuse of powerful AA ship +cv to guarantee screwing up planes

Overall strength of AA is too high , there is not a lot of targets for cv to choose , esp when playerbase has known to stick into a big stack of doom , rendering cv only able to shine when the enemy do something stupid.

Unbalanced loadout face up between IJN and USN carrier , most high tier are dominated by IJN carriers which are plain better , USN specialist loadout are not working as intended because they are too extreme and RNG based.

The meta of camping make cv esp USN much worse because team never push far enough for cv to hide.

It is extremely easy to deal with USN cv in a high tier match if IJN db decide to permaspot it and make their FTs run around like chicken.

BB camper sniper will take care of the rest and not even blueline hugging will do any good if that db is not killed and take all your attention away from battle.

Manual AA make Neptune and Minotaur effectively immune to USN strike due to RNG and reliancs on DB.

 

Lemme add to this list of issues.

For some reason Lexington is still stuck with 111 at Tier 8, This loadout should in my opinion only be the load out from tier 4 - 6, Tier 7, the player receives "heavy" carriers (or at least ranger (B) hull makes her a heavy carrier) and so should receive loud outs accordingly, May I suggest 112 if a 2nd FT is too OP because If anyone here thinks a CV player enjoys listening to people hate preaching while being wrecked by the "balanced light carrier" then please climb into a USN CV

Edited by BravaZulu296

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
30 posts
6,538 battles

USN CV OP they say, yep in low tier. Try lexington, essex and Midway, its quite "OP" as they say. Hah, good luck in lexington and prepare your karma points, maybe you even get -90 karma points after you finish grinding to essex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
989 posts
4,319 battles

You know sharkbait, with all your rubbish rants, whine and complain about CVs, really made me loose respect that I have for you as a CV player

 

Do you even think before you type?

 

Did he never posted something that wasnt interesting enough? Forgive him. He wasnt in the era where cv and cv can div. 

 

Anyway OP. I agree on the t5. As in zuiho before this. Where you can strafe. You still can try to kill their Fighters. But when fighting with only Clicking, zuihou is helpless. When fighting AS bogue. If he knows where to place his fighters. No way you can snipe CV or tries to kill enemy ships (assuming he defends well)

Edited by Safiuddin97

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
307 posts
6,413 battles

You know sharkbait, with all your rubbish rants, whine and complain about CVs, really made me loose respect that I have for you as a CV player

 

Do you even think before you type?

This just got interesting.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×