Smoke working as intended?

[Aniket_Sengupta]

Currently smoke is hiding the ships completely. However if radar assisted fire control mechanics are to be considered the target in smoke should appear in the minimap, much like detected enemies in cyclone. I know this will be a big drawback for the DDs and CLs but then again can this not be applied for the select ships that had radar assisted fire control systems?

[FenrirApalis]

what?

You press radar and they appear, simple. 

If you're talking about USN having radar guided guns then...

X100

[drakon233]

do you want yo break the game? because that's how you break the game

[Zwelivelle]

Confused.

If you press the radar, they appear visually, but you want during that time, they also appears at mini map ?

If that is true, i don't understand the next sentences.

A big drawback to DD and CL.

Only applied to select ships with radar assisted FC.

 

The radar we're using at the game is surveillance radar, not FC radar.

The simplest fire control radar works by focusing the radar beam to the target, that's why usually they only could track one target at time.

Even modern FC radar have limitation on how many they could track at same time.

Obviously not the radar used to detect, because if you tried to beam something at space, it could take a while. It is X,Y,Z 3 dimensional axis, we have earth curve to deal with too.

So the sequence should be survey first, when you get the coordinate, then you can use the tracking (FC) radar.

 

Back to WoWs, don't we have FC radar already applied to all ships ?

You know Japanese navy at that time couldn't be that accurate.

All ships already has surveillance radar, but, only select that could penetrate "the smoke", and island.

 

[Counterflak]

Is this another realism thread? Because if you want realism then you'll find through some brief reading that axis ships will be at a great disadvantage.

 

Sometimes you have to accept that gameplay trumps realism. This is one of those cases.

[Aniket_Sengupta]

I'm not talking about surveillance radar, but FC radar only. Also no particular tech tree but all ships with FC radar. So when you are not using surveillance radar you don't see them but by focusing your guns throughout the stretch of the smoke one should be able to catch the hiding ship in the minimap, not see them completely which is what I meant.

Regarding modern gun fire control system, one such example would be STIR

[Shiroyasha_Gintoki]

So you're saying that even if the ship is hiding in smoke, they should still be visible on the minimap?

[drakon233]

so you want it that unicums can fire into smoke with more accruacy? i am whole hearted against this idea, smoke should not only be used as a offensive tool, but also as a tool to extract yourself from battle, having the other team being able to see through your smoke kind of defeats the whole purpose of that dosn't it?

[Zwelivelle]

I'm not talking about surveillance radar, but FC radar only. Also no particular tech tree but all ships with FC radar. So when you are not using surveillance radar you don't see them but by focusing your guns throughout the stretch of the smoke one should be able to catch the hiding ship in the minimap, not see them completely which is what I meant.

Regarding modern gun fire control system, one such example would be STIR

 

Ok, then i've outlined that FC radar is not something like that modern one.

It was like what i've described, it is different system than surveillance radar.

Also different system than modern ones.

Also, Iowa didn't have FC radar during WW2.

It was standard radar, or surveillance radar ? Well surveillance radar is term used at WoWs, it usually categorized as search radar.

Surface search radar, air search radar.

What Iowa had was a ballistic computer.

If you re-watch the Wargame Iowa video, please look at it again.

The search radar, catch the coordinate of the ship, then process it through the computer.

It is big as table.

The computer send the information to gunnery men to shot the gun.

[humusz]

 

Ok, then i've outlined that FC radar is not something like that modern one.

It was like what i've described, it is different system than surveillance radar.

Also different system than modern ones.

Also, Iowa didn't have FC radar during WW2.

It was standard radar, or surveillance radar ? Well surveillance radar is term used at WoWs, it usually categorized as search radar.

Surface search radar, air search radar.

What Iowa had was a ballistic computer.

If you re-watch the Wargame Iowa video, please look at it again.

The search radar, catch the coordinate of the ship, then process it through the computer.

It is big as table.

The computer send the information to gunnery men to shot the gun.

 

Every Cruiser and Battleship use some sort of analog computer

Japan use Type 92 Sokutekiban  mostly. and there newer Type 94 used by Yamato that said closly match American Mk 38

 

the problem why only American achive true Radar Directed Fire control were radar Resolution, not the computer

Japan Radar have +- 500 meter resolution, with 1 degree off bearing. so the circular error probability radius were 1km - making it was not reliable without augmentation of any visual based input. it can track movment, bearring and direction. but not pinpoint exact location

on other hand American radar have resoultion of +- 50 meters,  the circular probability radius were only 100m. that why they can achive true radar guided firing

[Zwelivelle]

 

Every Cruiser and Battleship use some sort of analog computer

Japan use Type 92 Sokutekiban  mostly. and there newer Type 94 used by Yamato that said closly match American Mk 38

 

the problem why only American achive true Radar Directed Fire control were radar Resolution, not the computer

Japan Radar have +- 500 meter resolution, with 1 degree off bearing. so the circular error probability radius were 1km - making it was not reliable without augmentation of any visual based input

on other hand American radar have resoultion of +- 50 meters,  the circular probability radius were only 100m. that why they can achive true radar guided firing

 

Fire control radar is a different kind of radar, it only beam a single target, like using flashlight to search the sea, when used without search radar.

So ofc they have high resolution. As they need a strong wave reflection back to the weapon need to be guided.

 

Iowa didn't have that kind of radar, so they used ballistic computer instead.

You're not wrong, but kinda pointing to wrong direction.

[humusz]

 

Fire control radar is a different kind of radar, it only beam a single target, like using flashlight to search the sea, when used without search radar.

So ofc they have high resolution. As they need a strong wave reflection back to the weapon need to be guided.

 

Iowa didn't have that kind of radar, so they used ballistic computer instead.

You're not wrong, but kinda pointing to wrong direction.

 

Yamato Type 22 is Fire Control Gunnery Radar

Type 21 is Surveilance radar

Type 13 is Air Search radar

 

are you realy think only US have Fire control radar ? 

US also have it, and other naval power also have it. its very common after 1935, most of front line ship would have it

 

Talking about Analog computer, an interesting piece of trivia.

is Bar and Stroud from British developed Balistic calculating computer, but Royal Navy dont buy it since Admirality want to develop things on their own

So They sell it under license to Italian, which in turn sell it to the Germans

The germans latter, modify it and equip it on their ships. one ship in particular named Bismarck use it to sink Hood

 

its kinda ironic doesn.it.   Bismarck accurate shoot made possible by British made computer

[Zwelivelle]

 

Yamato Type 22 is Fire Control Gunnery Radar

Type 21 is Surveilance radar

Type 13 is Air Search radar

 

are you realy think only US have Fire control radar ? 

US also have it, and other naval power also have it. its very common after 1935, most of front line ship would have it

 

Talking about Analog computer, an interesting piece of trivia.

is Bar and Stroud from British developed Balistic calculating computer, but Royal Navy dont buy it since Admirality want to develop things on their own

So They sell it under license to Italian, which in turn sell it to the Germans

The germans latter, modify it and equip it on their ships. one ship in particular named Bismarck use it to sink Hood

 

its kinda ironic doesn.it.   Bismarck accurate shoot made possible by British made computer

 

That's why you're arguing with me, i'm perfectly understand your statement, even your statement compliment with mine actually.

Quite wonder why noone asking for radar on Japanese ship?

1943 Fubuki, Kagero also equipped with radars, FC radar too.

 

What i tried to say is, track radar alone is not enough. And it doesn't give better view than standard radar, while it is powerful, it only as thin as flashlight.

It is why another type of radar also used simultaneously.

I'm reffering to the OP sentence :

. However if radar assisted fire control mechanics are to be considered the target in smoke should appear in the minimap, much like detected enemies in cyclone.

I don't see where ships with FC radar could see better than ship without one.

 

Also FC radar during that era is not true Fire control with tracking capability radar (like the flashlight).

It was standard search radar with computer assist.

Japanese also used the same kind, although with lower resolution and technology. Radar and computer alike.

It is not like idk about Japanese ships.

If you really want to see better with your radar, put bigger antennae, and use more advanced technology. Some bigger radar with higher res or range also need more power. Put your radar as high as possible to overcome earth curve and skycrapper. It is not by using additional fire control radar, it designed to give better sight to the weapon, not the people.

 

So that's why i said something like this, quoted from my 1st post.

Back to WoWs, don't we have FC radar already applied to all ships ?

You know Japanese navy at that time couldn't be that accurate.

All ships already has surveillance radar, but, only select that could penetrate "the smoke", and island.

Maybe you ticked because i said something about Japanese Navy, but note my 1st and 3rd sentence.

[humusz]

 

So that's why i said something like this, quoted from my 1st post.

Back to WoWs, don't we have FC radar already applied to all ships ?

You know Japanese navy at that time couldn't be that accurate.

All ships already has surveillance radar, but, only select that could penetrate "the smoke", and island.

Maybe you ticked because i said something about Japanese Navy, but note my 1st and 3rd sentence.

 

1st Generation radar already capable of seeing trough smoke. (modern Smoke use Synthetic Graphite Flakes mixed in to obscure Electromagnetic tracking, but thats like cold war technology)

Rain however, cause noise, static and cause huge gray blot on the screen.

this was true, for all of Nation involved in early Radar development, only after 3rd Generation radar managed to reliable on all weather. which happen in cold war

 

and no

the radar dont track target automaticly.

It was directed by people on Radar Director, so its manualy tracking by people to "steer" the beam

AFAIK, US employ 8 People per Radar Director (Illumination control officer, Trainer, Pointer, Control officer, Range Talker, Range Finder operator, Comunication officer/Talker), Japan use 10 people due to cruder system

 

[Aniket_Sengupta]

Also FC radar during that era is not true Fire control with tracking capability radar (like the flashlight).

It was standard search radar with computer assist.

 

What? you mean to say in WW2 they didn't have any FC radar? Or are you implying FC radar was just a fancy term coined for the computer assist technology they used for the guns? I think you are mistaking FC radar with inputs from range finders, optics, etc. that were calculated by the computers. FC radar even during WW2 acted in 3 phases designation, acquisition and tracking. During designation phase the radar beam would be guided along with guns towards the target, which is when the radar would identify the cross section of the target in its own system and 'light up' the target for the latter phases to continue successfully. 

You should share some legitimate sources to back your claim and not just draw conclusions on mere speculations or opinions.