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Moggytwo

Some thoughts on the current high tier meta

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Beta Tester
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I've noticed the meta has changed a bit on our server since 0.6.3 was released.  Was curious if other people have noticed the same things as me.

 

I've mostly been playing high tiers (Z-52, Khaba) plus a few mid tier games, and I've noticed there are far less DD's than there used to be.  I'd say there are on average 2-3 DD's per team each game.  BB's seem to be most played by far, with 5 per team being what I would say is average.  Most of the mid-tier games I've played have had more CV's than DD's!  Consistently there are 2 CV's per team and often only 1 DD (which I think is linked to the CV population, it is awfully tough to play a DD with gun bloom as it is and planes everywhere).  I personally don't think this makes for good balance, but I'm a DD main so am of course biased in that direction.

 

The gun bloom nerf has made it harder to be successful as a DD, which may go a long way to explaining the population drop.  German DD's however are much improved (with their gun bloom buff!) and really are excellent in the current meta, I'm absolutely loving the Z-52 atm.

 

Khaba is still great, so long as you take SGM3 and it very much benefits from CE now.  If you have 9.7km concealment it really opens you up to being ambushed by stealthy cruisers.

 

Checking the 2 week stats on Warships Today for our server, the top 7 most played ships are all BB's!  I think this indicates something is seriously off with game balance atm.

 

The 5 most played DD's in the last 2 weeks are all IJN.  Considering how poor to average they are, this is surprising.  I think it is due to the low stress torp from relative safety game play that is associated with these ships (not saying this is the best way to play them, it's just the stereotypical play style) and perhaps because we are on the Asia server and these are Asian ships make them more popular.  The most played DD's on other servers are much more balanced.

 

The meta at high tiers is actually not that passive.  The DD's that remain seem quite good at pushing up, and I've had many quite fluid games.  This is the biggest positive atm.

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I thought it have been a long time we have BB meta.

A battle with half or more team consisted of BBs are usual.

This happens not only to high tier, but also low tier as well.

There are only few battles with a few BB inside.

Sometimes, if i play cruiser, there are a lot of BB.

If i play DD, there are a lot of cruisers.

But in average i'm confident enough to say we have been in BB meta for quite a time.

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Here is the reason there are more of us BBs around these days....

 

We need the extra tonnage & armour to survive the onslaught of the myriad of new DDs & cruisers that are now in the game, that are intent on burning you down to water level, & DDs with next to zero visibility until its too late,  when they launch impossible amount of torpedo's at near unavoidable angles, & we need the bigger guns to shoot lots of shells into the blooms of smoke everywhere, so we comfort ourselfs into thinking we might actually get lucky & hit something, & while dodging & hunting these little pests, we need to have more AA to help us survive the CV air strikes....

 

I hope this gives you an insight into OUR view of the game..........       :hmm:      :teethhappy:

 

Ordrazz

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[MEGA]
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Here is the reason there are more of us BBs around these days....

 

We need the extra tonnage & armour to survive the onslaught of the myriad of new DDs & cruisers that are now in the game, that are intent on burning you down to water level, & DDs with next to zero visibility until its too late,  when they launch impossible amount of torpedo's at near unavoidable angles, & we need the bigger guns to shoot lots of shells into the blooms of smoke everywhere, so we comfort ourselfs into thinking we might actually get lucky & hit something, & while dodging & hunting these little pests, we need to have more AA to help us survive the CV air strikes....

 

I hope this gives you an insight into OUR view of the game..........       :hmm:      :teethhappy:

 

Ordrazz

not sure if sarcastic or just BBaby rant

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The meta at high tiers is actually not that passive.  The DD's that remain seem quite good at pushing up, and I've had many quite fluid games.  This is the biggest positive atm.

Well, it was because the DD is the one that making the game not fluid

 

they lay smoke for the team, and your team DD lay smoke in return

and you have 2 min, camping standoff at 17km

 

at high tier, the match with less DD is way less campy IMO

if you have 5 DD on each team, and then cap point is full of smoke for 10 min.

no one spot, no one push. quite hillarius

Edited by humusz

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[MEGA]
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Well, it was because the DD is the one that making the game not fluid

 

they lay smoke for the team, and your team DD lay smoke in return

and you have 2 min, camping standoff at 17km

 

at high tier, the match with less DD is way less campy IMO

well it depends on where the DD lays the smoke i guess, a good DD will smoke aggresively and encourage the team to push, a bad smoke puff will lead to BBs and CAs being herded by the othet team like sheeps(pun intended)

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well it depends on where the DD lays the smoke i guess, a good DD will smoke aggresively and encourage the team to push, a bad smoke puff will lead to BBs and CAs being herded by the othet team like sheeps(pun intended)

 

more like it depends on map

esp with radar ships, that can lurking behind some obstacle

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Oh yeah, I heard the New Wargaming tournament rule only allowed 2 DD (USN DD ofc, other nation DD in competitive were mostly irrelevant lol) per side

so the game become more fluid 

 

well, I very agree. that large number of DD in match make game less fluid

I preffer 3 DD per side every match though, 1 DD for each contest point

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Super Tester
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Maybe you just played at different hour than me.

 

I've played at all times of the days, the majority are when the server is at peak population. This server hasn't had a BB for a long time now.

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I've played at all times of the days, the majority are when the server is at peak population. This server hasn't had a BB for a long time now.

 

That's weird, i've encounter a lot battles with 5 BBs at each team.. 5/12 is not meta?

For long time ago yes, when we still have Beta working in progress stamped at the result screen.

I played majority at server lowest time.

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I don't like DD play style on this server at all and consequently, high tier meta. Most of them die way too early due to predictable reasons like stronger opposing gunboat DD/radar. In ~80% of high tier games I play, there is only one DD left out of 24 players after the first 10 mins. The side that loses all DD first will have an extremely difficult time regaining cap points because the surviving DD is usually very competent - and that's if they have the courage to push. Generally the game will just go completely lopsided and end with a 8-10 ships kill difference. The losers feel frustrated because they can't stop the cap snowball advantage. The victors also hate it because the game ends too fast and they can't do much.

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i have a Gearing and Fletcher, arguably 2 of the best DDs in the current meta, and i haven't taken them out for almost 2 months, because the current meta so VERY unfriendly against DDs, radar CAs, BBs, CVs all counter DDs too well now, it's forced them into a almost completely supportive role, the invisifire nerf hurt the most, and whichever patch that changed the AP penn of BBs on DDs that lets them do massive amounts of damage in a single salvo

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[LNA]
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Dont know about it , but on our server bb is still using CA and DD tactic of kiting and camping it all. Extremely passive gameplay where no one refuse to attack , it takes an idiot like me to push and be meatshield so that the pussy team can go up.

Thing is no matter what ship is the meta , ppl play every ship the same way: passive camping and kiting.

I am ver salty towards bb, esp usn that cant show broadside or ijn freaks that never show up in the fight from 14km and instead camp close to where cv should sit.

Quite a few games in my cv i have died early due to the team refusing to move up and i have no where to go as enemy cv by chance spot the camping reddies and spot me too. Usn cv big detection radius is also making them suffer as they have to sit too far away from the action and mostly out of range of help

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i have a Gearing and Fletcher, arguably 2 of the best DDs in the current meta, and i haven't taken them out for almost 2 months, because the current meta so VERY unfriendly against DDs, radar CAs, BBs, CVs all counter DDs too well now, it's forced them into a almost completely supportive role, the invisifire nerf hurt the most, and whichever patch that changed the AP penn of BBs on DDs that lets them do massive amounts of damage in a single salvo

 

Exactly. DD skill floor has been raised gradually so the few that can get adapted to it will become more dominant while the "less skillful" playerbase is more vulnerable to dying.

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Beta Tester
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Here is the reason there are more of us BBs around these days....

 

We need the extra tonnage & armour to survive the onslaught of the myriad of new DDs & cruisers that are now in the game, that are intent on burning you down to water level, & DDs with next to zero visibility until its too late,  when they launch impossible amount of torpedo's at near unavoidable angles, & we need the bigger guns to shoot lots of shells into the blooms of smoke everywhere, so we comfort ourselfs into thinking we might actually get lucky & hit something, & while dodging & hunting these little pests, we need to have more AA to help us survive the CV air strikes....

 

I hope this gives you an insight into OUR view of the game..........       :hmm:      :teethhappy:

 

Ordrazz

 

So your argument is that there are more BB's since you need to sail a BB to counter all the things that are only really an issue for BB's?  If you don't like being burnt down, try sailing a destroyer or cruiser, you'll never get burnt down again.  Same with torps, you're much more likely to avoid torps if you aren't in a BB. Smoke is also a non-issue for a DD, not only do you have your own, but you can just toss a spread of torps into it to clear out any ships in there.  I think I just solved all your problems - it turns out you were just sailing the wrong class!

 

 

I thought it have been a long time we have BB meta.

 

On other servers maybe but not here.

 

Agreed. It seems we have one now though.

 

 

I don't like DD play style on this server at all and consequently, high tier meta. Most of them die way too early due to predictable reasons like stronger opposing gunboat DD/radar. In ~80% of high tier games I play, there is only one DD left out of 24 players after the first 10 mins. The side that loses all DD first will have an extremely difficult time regaining cap points because the surviving DD is usually very competent - and that's if they have the courage to push. Generally the game will just go completely lopsided and end with a 8-10 ships kill difference. The losers feel frustrated because they can't stop the cap snowball advantage. The victors also hate it because the game ends too fast and they can't do much.

 

DD's dying early is definitely more of an issue than it used to be, because the life of a DD is much tougher than it used to be (and it was never easy - unless you were a Shima pre-20km torp nerf I guess).  You can still do well, but the skill floor for a DD is higher than it's ever been.  It takes only a very small error to send you back to port, as can be evidenced by your comments on the DD's consistently dying early.

 

What this means is that many DD captains have switched to other more forgiving ship types, and nothing is more forgiving than a BB, hence the increase in BB's and decrease in DD's.  The only people left in DD's are the above average and the stubborn.

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Super Tester
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Well it is pretty well established that Asia runs on cruiser meta. All of my today's matches (after 3 AM) were 1 BB, 1 DD and 10 CA/CL on each team. The lack of meat shield makes the games end quickly and low damage scores for everyone.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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i have a Gearing and Fletcher, arguably 2 of the best DDs in the current meta, and i haven't taken them out for almost 2 months, because the current meta so VERY unfriendly against DDs, radar CAs, BBs, CVs all counter DDs too well now, it's forced them into a almost completely supportive role, the invisifire nerf hurt the most, and whichever patch that changed the AP penn of BBs on DDs that lets them do massive amounts of damage in a single salvo

 

You talk about me being a BBaby????? What you're saying is the same view from s DD point of view.. You're a DDbaby.... Looks like we are BOTH babies!!!! Waaaaahhhh.             lol

 

seriously, my post is just being extreme, intended as more of a sarcastic joke, written in a matter of fact kind of way, making sure to deliberately exaggerate every point...

 

I only said it as a bit of a fish hook... :P      :aqua:

 

 

Same answer to moggytwo... Just doing some amusing fishing.     :teethhappy:

 

I thought the Smiley's would've given it away actually...

 

Back to the fishing expediti....err debate

 

Ordrazz

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You talk about me being a BBaby????? What you're saying is the same view from s DD point of view.. You're a DDbaby.... Looks like we are BOTH babies!!!! Waaaaahhhh.             lol

 

seriously, my post is just being extreme, intended as more of a sarcastic joke, written in a matter of fact kind of way, making sure to deliberately exaggerate every point...

 

I only said it as a bit of a fish hook... :P      :aqua:

 

 

Same answer to moggytwo... Just doing some amusing fishing.     :teethhappy:

 

I thought the Smiley's would've given it away actually...

 

Back to the fishing expediti....err debate

 

Ordrazz

 

why do you need to explain the sarcasm? if they get it then great, if not, screw them

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The 'meta' during my hours of play is consistent BB numbers (3 to 6 a side) and fairly big sways of CA/CL and DD's. Occasionally a game will seed 5 a side with DD and other times only 1 or 2. and similarly with cruisers, between 2 to 6 a side is common. CV's have been popping up more than previously that I have noticed.

 

I have been grinding the Kagero and playing Akizuki on the side.

 

I find BB more threatening than any CA or CL, in particular the Bismarck is probably the ship that I find doing solid damage to me in both the Kag and Akizuki, followed by the NC or Iowa class. The Japanese aren't typically in a hurry to get close so they don't hit much. CA and CL aren't very scary as they're typically doing things conscious of the BB delete range (or inside of it, in which case Shift+Delete, press enter, forget the recycle bin), and also CL are made of paper as the Minotaur that took 22 cits last night from my DD and resting at the bottom of the sea would attest.

 

I can see why BB are fundamentally popular, they do the damage and can stand a fight. Fire spamming gradually becomes old and the support play and largely unrewarded cunning of a successful DD isn't for everybody. Plus when the support is pushed back or fails they can shift the blame of their ills on everyone else.

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