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Jin_Maq

Capping is complely unrealistic for naval warfare

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The use of current political situations in arguments is to stop. This will be your only warning.

~ADM_dude

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This is the main reason for my thread

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/36786-the-dwindling-amount-of-players-of-wows-time-for-statistics-graphs/

 

Remind you of anything?  maybe this will give you some insight into the future.

http://steamcharts.com/app/338540

 

I love this game, i love the realism of it, the ships are a work of art, masterpieces even down to the last cable or AA gun. I used to build model ships from WWII as a child, it was my joy. Now i use WoW for the same thing, sometimes spending an hour just looking at my ships in port, they are true works of art, and the realism and attention to detail is why i love this game. However, i have spent many months grinding for high tier ships in other navy games before this one, only to FINALLY get that Tier 10 ship, but it was pointless since the population was long dwindled by then, making the countless hours of grinding and cash spend a complete waste. Now i see the same patterns emerging here, and my motivations to grind are very low. I want this game to stick around for 10 years, not 2, and i will do everything i can (which isnt much, i agree) to help prevent that.

 

I know not everyone agrees on my opinion, and i may be completely incorrect, but i do have alot of experience with naval games and naval history in general, and imo the biggest problem right now is the way combat flows, dominated by the capping, not the warfare or skill as captain. Some battles you can hit every single shot, have flawless aim, not take one hit, but still lose because of some sneaky DD capping bases. And if your 2-4 DD's on your team suck, then no amount of skill is gonna win you the battle, its game over. Win rating goes down, damage numbers go down. Too much faith is placed in the DD captains abilities instead of the capitol ships.

 

I really have hope things change and the population numbers start to grow, but seems hope is never enough sadly.

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This is the main reason for my thread

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/36786-the-dwindling-amount-of-players-of-wows-time-for-statistics-graphs/

 

Remind you of anything?  maybe this will give you some insight into the future.

http://steamcharts.com/app/338540

 

I love this game, i love the realism of it, the ships are a work of art, masterpieces even down to the last cable or AA gun. I used to build model ships from WWII as a child, it was my joy. Now i use WoW for the same thing, sometimes spending an hour just looking at my ships in port, they are true works of art, and the realism and attention to detail is why i love this game. However, i have spent many months grinding for high tier ships in other navy games before this one, only to FINALLY get that Tier 10 ship, but it was pointless since the population was long dwindled by then, making the countless hours of grinding and cash spend a complete waste. Now i see the same patterns emerging here, and my motivations to grind are very low. I want this game to stick around for 10 years, not 2, and i will do everything i can (which isnt much, i agree) to help prevent that.

 

I know not everyone agrees on my opinion, and i may be completely incorrect, but i do have alot of experience with naval games and naval history in general, and imo the biggest problem right now is the way combat flows, dominated by the capping, not the warfare or skill as captain. Some battles you can hit every single shot, have flawless aim, not take one hit, but still lose because of some sneaky DD capping bases. And if your 2-4 DD's on your team suck, then no amount of skill is gonna win you the battle, its game over. Win rating goes down, damage numbers go down. Too much faith is placed in the DD captains abilities instead of the capitol ships.

 

I really have hope things change and the population numbers start to grow, but seems hope is never enough sadly.

 

That thread is outdated. If your require proof please either quote a new source or create a graph yourself.

 

2nd thing is that the source in no way supports your argument. Please show me any correlation between capping and declining player population.

 

I am not saying that this game is in its current state perfect. It does have it's problems but capping is not one of them.

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Right, so i used the word "simulator" a little looslely, i should have said GAME, so hang me for my poor english, but is my poor english the topic here?  Im not saying this is meant to be a simulator game, im saying (like the title of the post says)

"Capping is completely unrealistic for naval warfare"

 

good to know that all you have on me is a play on words, fact still remains, capping has nothing to do with naval warfare. Pick apart my words and sentences all you want,but that fact will still remain.

 

Kudos for the namecallers too, great rep for the game in general.

 

 

And yes, this is my first post, but been playing the game for months, i usually avoid posting in forums caus i get picked apart for my bad English and grammar by trolls. But im prepared to cop all that abuse caus i like this game and want it to improve, the population is dwindling slowly and ive seen other naval games in the past die in the same way, they are always too arcadey. battle-stations midway, navy field, all died far too early, now i see the same mistakes happening here.

 

I don't see word play on other posts except some. Your wall of text is consistent with the topic as you have delivered the background, points, suggested solution, & reason for it. Even if you did say you loosely used the term "simulator" to "realistic", it is still lean towards to the goal.

 

Even this is your first post, your delivery is very clear. You've already done it in school & in workplace.

But I have to tell you, capture system (or whatever mechanics they called) is already a norm in video game. Teams are given the options to win by steel & fire or go tactical.

Making a battle longer and no capping flags & points in a new mode is unconvincing, as this will just be reviving the old issue with too many draws in beta test.

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Now, do you still want to argue that I had not respected his opinion?

 

 

No. I will not argue about your thoughts on his opinion.

But I will argue that your responses were personal attacks on the OP.

I also disagree with his capping idea, but i don't resort to attempts at belittling him. As I said before, having contrasting ideas does not give free reign to be abusive.

 First, you called him a jackass, then a circlejerk and then finally kept repeating he should remove himself to somewhere decidedly unsafe.

 

Play the ball, not the man.

 

I only typed my first response to you when i read the statement below. Because after all you have said to to OP, you showed yourself to be hypocritical.

 

Perhaps you really need to learn reading different opinions, comprehensions, and most importantly put your brain back where it supposed to be.

Perhaps you should  take your own advice.

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

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Removing cap zones will only make the game more DD oriented:

 'Yeah my team has all sunk. let me just hide and i will never get spotted so its a draw'

 

 

Edited by TorpedoBeat

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since ts hate capping, let me suggest reverse logic.

all ships must reach the center within x mins else the side with more ships outside loses immediately.

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That moment, when some rants about cap, you know... Shet is getting more <content removed>...

 

This game is not a naval simulation.

 

1. Hitpoints

In real life, you destroy the enemy's capability to fight. Sure, your boat can be shot to pieces, but as long it isn't taking in water, its guns can still fire, can still shoot torpedoes and can move, it is still a undefeated enemy.

 

2. 15v15

Since when in real life were naval battles fixed where both sides go like "Ok, we bring 15 ships, you bring 15 ships" In real naval battles, if they could, they would have brought EVERY SINGLE boat they could to the battle.

 

3. View range

At sea, detection of ships are based on the height of the ship, allowing them to see future over the horizon, so theoretically, a BB would have the most view range in this game

 

4. DDs

HOW IS A 103M KAMIKAZE UNSPOTTED 5.5KM AWAY FROM ME!!!

 

Point is, this is a game, you are free to create your own naval simulator if you wished to, but don't expect the game to be a copy of real life, or it wouldn't be fun at all.

 

Insults/Derogatory Comments. Post Edited. User Sanctioned

~ADM_dude

Edited by ADM_dude

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HOW IS A 103M KAMIKAZE UNSPOTTED 5.5KM AWAY FROM ME!!!

 

meet Kagero 5.2, Umikaze 4.9, V-25 4.8 :trollface:
Edited by MatterCore
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Just for you info: Tou do "cap" irl naval warfare. Every exercise I have ever done involved getting and holding a point in the water, During the Gulf War (2001), we had to hold area 945, strangely enough, a big circle in the water drawn on a map!

 

Before running your mouth about what real naval warfare is, ask someone who has done the job first, at least you will have correct information m!

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Is fire sinking ship so much historical? Or is spawning a CV ~30km from enemy fleet? Or is carrier being able to send multiple strike waves within 20 minutes? Or is the magical less-than-minute plane reload? Or is concealment? Or is torpedoes that sail straight, don't fail to detonate and even goes off when sth touches it's tail? Or is Moskva? Khabarovsk?

This game is NOT a naval simulation. It's a game WG made to do RUSSIAN-BIAS.

 

That's why I have lots of RU ships :medal:
Edited by Burnt_Out_Koalas

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While i know you want to have a realistic game, you must know that most of the IRL actions of WWII ships spent with a couple of ships firing and both running away.  Besides, if the captain is KIA generally they turn the ship away.  Most of the sinking's happened either by mines, an unseen submarine or airplanes and any time a ship got damaged it went into port immediately, so IRL simulation game would be very boring.  Remember this is a GAME and to encourage attacking play zones are made up.  I think the best example of IRL battles was done on trainer servers....

 

Battle of Jutland .... haha was funny....

 

funny one to watcvh as well.

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Ive read through all these responses but i still fail to see any solid reasons why capping should be in this game. Even lengxv6's comments about the real navy are only partially true, because im guessing the war didnt end after he was at "area 945" for a few mins, and im betting if a fleet was incoming toward area 945, they wern't told to "return to base because the enemy have held that area for longer than x-minutes and now the BATTLE is over" A navigational checkpoint or meeting point (and thats all it is) has nothing to do with combat. And this has the same equivalent of a game of WoW where a fleet or task force agrees to go to a certain location, thats just simple navigation. Said location or meeting point should not be a cause for game ending. And once again, this line of thinking is completely unrealistic, even in battles like Jutland, where the German fleet choose a position to ambush the British fleet, but that actual position had no real significance to the battle or outcome, this is PROVEN by the fact the Germans retreated, the area of ambush was irrelevant once the battle started. Koala if you use battle of Jutland to back up your apparent need for capping, then why didn't the Germans stay and hold the ambush zone, ill tell you why, because when it comes to an actual naval battle, holding zones or navigational positions don't mean anything. Im glad you mentioned Jutland, its a perfect example of my point.

 

The majority of the points put forward here seem to be all practically the same "absence of capping will make games too slow with too many draws" But this is already proven wrong with games like Navy Field 2. No capping at all in navy field, just a 15min time limit and a few bases to cap. Said bases being capped have NO IMPACT on on ending the game early, they simply give a bonus to the fleet owning them, for example, capping an airfield gives the bonus of a high altitude airstrike every 2mins by the flagship (yes flagship, highest ranking ship is often protected by a few DD's and CA AA, don't wanna lose him early, sounds fun yeah?) this CAN sway the battle in your favor, but games were never ended prematurely just because one of these bases were capped. So there wasn't a huge player base or huge number of developers looking after the game like here, but one thing is for sure, the system worked! and was FAR MORE realistic.

 

Also, this draw excuse is invalid, because with this system, draws were less than 1% Im not saying to adopt this same system, im just saying be a little more open minded, think outside the box. There are solutions and alternatives for capping. And if you'd like to see for yourself if the system works, yeah its a dead game because of absent developers, but its there to play and try if your willing to look what im talking about, the system defiantly works, its super fun, and nobody gets left behind by an early game end. The scenarios it creates, some of the situations you get yourself in, you have to actually THINK and react, sometimes fall back, sometimes advance, sometimes cap a base. DD's actually escort instead of charge and cap attack. That kind of variation in games is not found here, its the same boring routine game after game imo. DD's rush the center, capitol ships dance around the edges too afraid to venture into A B C zones, they sail the same routes, hugging map edges, its repetitive and boring.

And please understand im not saying "make this game more realistic"  or "make it a simulation" what im saying is  "make it more fun and exciting"  capping is neither fun nor exciting, but that's just my opinion.

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And please understand im not saying "make this game more realistic"  or "make it a simulation" what im saying is  "make it more fun and exciting"  capping is neither fun nor exciting, but that's just my opinion.

 

I'm not too sure about this. Did you just assume that everyone find that Capping is "not fun"?

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I enjoy the capping mechanic, it provides a natural point of contention for two opposing teams and gives players a clear objective for the round at hand.

 

In fact, I almost rather they cycled out Standard Battles and just settled for Domination instead.

 

 

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you done?

 

How does it feel when you have to eat your own words eh?

 

First you said on the 1st post that you want a "realistic mode". And now you said you don't want a "realistic mode" or "simulator".

 

What you said on the 1st post really contradict with what you just said right now, don't you think?

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Ill make a seperate post and label it  "jin maq's poor english, grammer and word selection" and we can discuss that there, and you can attack me ll you want ok.

 

But this thread here, is about the topic of capping. And my opinion on how its not realistic.

 

Darkshaunz just gave a perfect example of an expressed opinion without a personal attack or correction, take a look, that's how its done.

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But this thread here, is about the topic of capping. And my opinion on how its not realistic.

 

And yet this sentence over here still say that you want the game to be realistic while this is supposed to be an arcade game. Not a simulator or realistic game even though others already said that, you failed to accept that this is an arcade game. This game is not meant to be realistic so of course it will have "unrealistic" features like capping and alike.

 

Also, blaming your poor English doesn't really solve everything at all.

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TWELVE posts in my thread now??   are you for real?  thats way more than me and im the OP

 

hijacking much? plz stop spamming my thread, you've already stated your opinion on the subject, so stop posting please.

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And please understand im not saying "make this game more realistic"  or "make it a simulation" what im saying is  "make it more fun and exciting"  capping is neither fun nor exciting, but that's just my opinion.

 

In reality, navies had substantial reasons to fight over any given stretch of water. In this game, however, player motivations are entirely different - mostly based on immediate, tangible rewards. Nobody's playing this game to support their homeland or protect their family. Well, hopefully not. So if players don't get a direct benefit in credits and XP for risking their pretty ship models, then they simply won't most of the time. This is what we saw happening in the early days of WoWS. An overwhelming reluctance to engage.

 

Domination brings an incentive to play aggressively - cap the zone, get an immediate reward, and directly push your team closer to victory. Not only that, but it also provides clear objectives that promote basic teamwork in an otherwise chaotic Random Battle. "Let's cap A," "Support that DD in B," etc. Simple and effective.

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Right, so i used the word "simulator" a little looslely, i should have said GAME, so hang me for my poor english, but is my poor english the topic here?  Im not saying this is meant to be a simulator game, im saying (like the title of the post says)

"Capping is completely unrealistic for naval warfare"

 

good to know that all you have on me is a play on words, fact still remains, capping has nothing to do with naval warfare. Pick apart my words and sentences all you want,but that fact will still remain.

 

Kudos for the namecallers too, great rep for the game in general.

 

yes, because not even once in naval history where a naval fleet capping an island to cut off enemy supply lines and communication right?
Edited by Teostra

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