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Safiuddin97

JP DD 0.6.4

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Super Tester
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First of all. Not to rant or anything. Statistically this ship is the most underpowered yet popular to be played with. Since its huge nerf, it was the bottom of every each server. Plus with HE nerf. I still wonders how i still play with her.

 

Its good the dev did something on 0.6.4. But the changes did slightly little difference from the current state. The speciality of the ijn dds were robbed by USN or Germans. Meanwhile, they have better guns. Better AA. 

 

I still wonder why this isnt noticeable by dev.. it is undeniable this ship requires her speciality back. Torpedoes damage doesnt matter when base concealment is bad. And other speciality is stealth. When yhe usn have better guns. Better torps. Better AA. Equal and reasonable stealth. Ijn dds get squash. For the time being. Best to fight a gearing is not to fight at all and smoke when ambushed and run away. 

 

Anyway.. here is a video i agree on the opinions

 

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Agreed. To be dead honest I wanted to play DD for they were, close brawlers with long range ambush abilities. Obviously my choice were Japanese until I found out how hard they got hit by the nerfbat. Now I play the US line and I am forced to play it like a mini cruiser. I can't ambush properly with it and I have to rely on long arcs to fight cruisers or islands to fight BB. Worse I have to get up close and personal to get my torpedoes off which is purely luck most of the time these days unless you are facing a tunnel vision player. I don't care if they restrict the torpedo damage to 5k per hit, but I think it would be wise to let destroyers be what they were meant to be. FYI I am a BB player mainly so I might be just shooting myself in the foot with this opinion but I like to play all kinds of ships and right now destroyer is a class I am least enjoying.

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What tier are you playing? Because it seems that youre in tier 4 and tier 5 us Dd.

Treat these tiers as Training for Highter USDDs. When you get to tier 7 - 10... You will be able to fire torps without being detected.

Tier 6 will be your Jumping point to high tier.

US DDs are the Best all around (multipurpose) Gun/Torp boats in the game with crazy AA, great handling and good stealth next to IJN. They can handle anything.

 

Oops, i was refering to the 2nd post in this thread. Lol

 

Anyway, regarding IJN dds... I think they have lost their identity... They used to be really nice untill the nerf.

 

Now, the only IJN dd that is Good as the whole line used to be is the Kamikaze/Fujin line.

Edited by kultabashi

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Super Tester
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Yes, JP DD are not very powerful in the current version. My suggestion is to give them torp reload like shira, in their engine boost slot. They should depend on torp volume to deal damage, not stealth and speed. This will make them unique in comparison to the other DDs and at the same time they won't be OP.

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Beta Tester
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Yes, JP DD are not very powerful in the current version. My suggestion is to give them torp reload like shira, in their engine boost slot. They should depend on torp volume to deal damage, not stealth and speed. This will make them unique in comparison to the other DDs and at the same time they won't be OP.

 

Preach it now.

 

One huge problem is the horrible slow reload of your torps which can be seen from miles away and dodged by any competent player. 

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Super Tester
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 Your torps will be spotted from Mars. If vigilance. I guess from Neptune. Haha

 

The guns used to be good but when HE alpha was nerf. Meh

 

Build torps? Torps is bad

 

Build guns? Your guns is bad.

 

Build AA? What is AA?

 

 

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Video Contributor
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 Your torps will be spotted from Mars. If vigilance. I guess from Neptune. Haha

 

The guns used to be good but when HE alpha was nerf. Meh

 

Build torps? Torps is bad

 

Build guns? Your guns is bad.

 

Build AA? What is AA?

 

 

 

Build Kamikaze attack :D

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Agree with you. IJN DD strength is in torpedo and stealth, but USN DD do have the same detecbility as IJN ones and IJN torp have detecbility high as <content removed> making using it is hopeless. So what can a IJN DD do now? Running around and spot enemy while dropping torps and pray for it to hit at least a single one?:hmm: 

 

Profanity. Post Edited. User Warned

~ADM_dude

Edited by ADM_dude

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Beta Tester
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The IJN torpedoes we have at the moment are a result of the Torpedo Soup nerf from long ago. Back then, long-range torpedo walls were common and very difficult to deal with, and involved very little risk to the Destroyer.

 

Now, however, there's many more tools available to spot torpedoes and stealthy DDs: radar, hydro, and dual catapults, for example. I think rolling back some of those old nerfs should be okay (and is what we're seeing - tentatively - in 0.6.4) in the current game.

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Yes, JP DD are not very powerful in the current version. My suggestion is to give them torp reload like shira, in their engine boost slot. They should depend on torp volume to deal damage, not stealth and speed. This will make them unique in comparison to the other DDs and at the same time they won't be OP.

 

And then Sub_Octavian mentioned that they're considering removing Shiratsuyu's torp reload booster.

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I gotta agree. IJN DD playstyle is basically lay down a bunch of torps and hope they hit something. Or just sail around and be a passive scout WoT-style. Unless you are in an Akizuiki, the most you can do against other DDs is to turn around and run. I almost never use my guns in an IJN DD unless A) the enemy is distracted or I have friendly support, or B) the enemy is at very low health and I feel I can win the fight, or C) I am sitting in smoke. At least before its removal, I could stealth-fire very comfortably in IJN DDs. Now that is one less thing they are able to do.

 

Notser also brought up an interesting point. I wonder if the reason WG is so reluctant to buff IJN torps is due to a different meta in RU. I don't know how far it is true, but I heard that RU has a very "yolo" meta. Everyone just rushes forward to cap so of course they are going to meet a wall of torpedoes. Whereas here in Asia we are more campy and cautious.

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Super Tester
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Outside of Mutsuki and Fubuki I see no reason to buff any of the JP DDs up to (and including) tier VII.

They have good, long range torpedoes, usually with stealth firing capability, especially with CE

and decent guns that are basically a hybrid between US and RU guns.

 

This gives them the capability to not only contest caps/areas but also capture them for their team,

while afterwards being capable of launching swarms of torpedoes at targets of their choosing without ever being spotted.

 

Not to mention that they get a quite nice health pool going once enhanced with Survivability Expert.

 

In my opinion the main issue several JP DD players have is that they underestimate their own ship's capabilities in regard

to destroyer duelling and never bother to try and come up with a way to utilise their concealment and turret layout to their own benefit.

 

This has been an issue since the start of the beta weekends where I first started seeing JP DDs solely relying on their torpedo

weaponry without ever making use of their guns, even in situations that definitely called for some well aimed shelling rather than dropping

as many torpedoes as possible into the ocean and hoping that one sticks.

 

The trick to JP DDs is that they require a bit of finesse in how they fight.

The low to mid tiers utilise gun layouts that generally allow them to keep up to 3 guns within their firing arcs without exposing their broadside.

This allows these ships to lay down very accurate medium damage fire at a medium firing rate.

 

Meanwhile the time in between salvoes can be used effectively to mitigate enemy damage by dodging and angling.

In terms of difficulty this isn't much more difficult than understanding why it's better to angle the hull and turret of a tank in different directions

when trying to bounce an enemy's shell in WoT.

 

This gunfight against a Maas is a good example of how a JP DD should fight other DDs, atleast up to tier VII.

I can't make any statement of the destroyer balance past tier VII due to not having played these ships for the longest time,

which is for a few other reasons.

 

I do every now and then run into tier VIII (And ever so rarely IX) DDs but never thought that any performance reductions

weren't influenced by tier difference.

 

Of course I can't fight a Benson head on with an Akatsuki, but I can wear her down while contesting the cap and eventually take her out or

make her retreat back into her team's back line.

 

As for changes I would like to see for the JP DD line regardless:

 

- Return Mutsuki's 4 gun layout

 

- Give Fubuki a 5 gun hull like Hatsuharu to make her combatitive during the cap/area contesting phase.

If that's not possible due to "historical correctness" then either scrap her and add a replacement, or consider another solution.

(Torp buffs, gun buffs, whatever... right now I'm writing any Fubuki off as a free kill no matter how good the player may be, these 4 guns are in the wrong spot

to be effective)

 

- Give Hatsuharu the health and rudder shift benefits from the B Hull on her A Hull.

(Fyi, her B hull is a trap for players leaking salvia while staring at the 10km range on the torpedoes.

Her 5 gun layout, especially in combination with SE, gives her the capability to give any gunboat a run for it's money)

Edited by Retia

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Super Tester
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Outside of Mutsuki and Fubuki I see no reason to buff any of the JP DDs up to (and including) tier VII.

They have good, long range torpedoes, usually with stealth firing capability, especially with CE

and decent guns that are basically a hybrid between US and RU guns.

 

This gives them the capability to not only contest caps/areas but also capture them for their team,

while afterwards being capable of launching swarms of torpedoes at targets of their choosing without ever being spotted.

 

Not to mention that they get a quite nice health pool going once enhanced with Survivability Expert.

 

In my opinion the main issue several JP DD players have is that they underestimate their own ship's capabilities in regard

to destroyer duelling and never bother to try and come up with a way to utilise their concealment and turret layout to their own benefit.

 

This has been an issue since the start of the beta weekends where I first started seeing JP DDs solely relying on their torpedo

weaponry without ever making use of their guns, even in situations that definitely called for some well aimed shelling rather than dropping

as many torpedoes as possible into the ocean and hoping that one sticks.

 

The trick to JP DDs is that they require a bit of finesse in how they fight.

The low to mid tiers utilise gun layouts that generally allow them to keep up to 3 guns within their firing arcs without exposing their broadside.

This allows these ships to lay down very accurate medium damage fire at a medium firing rate.

 

Meanwhile the time in between salvoes can be used effectively to mitigate enemy damage by dodging and angling.

In terms of difficulty this isn't much more difficult than understanding why it's better to angle the hull and turret of a tank in different directions

when trying to bounce an enemy's shell in WoT.

 

This gunfight against a Maas is a good example of how a JP DD should fight other DDs, atleast up to tier VII.

I can't make any statement of the destroyer balance past tier VII due to not having played these ships for the longest time,

which is for a few other reasons.

 

I do every now and then run into tier VIII (And ever so rarely IX) DDs but never thought that any performance reductions

weren't influenced by tier difference.

 

Of course I can't fight a Benson head on with an Akatsuki, but I can wear her down while contesting the cap and eventually take her out or

make her retreat back into her team's back line.

 

As for changes I would like to see for the JP DD line regardless:

 

- Return Mutsuki's 4 gun layout

 

- Give Fubuki a 5 gun hull like Hatsuharu to make her combatitive during the cap/area contesting phase.

If that's not possible due to "historical correctness" then either scrap her and add a replacement, or consider another solution.

(Torp buffs, gun buffs, whatever... right now I'm writing any Fubuki off as a free kill no matter how good the player may be, these 4 guns are in the wrong spot

to be effective)

 

- Give Hatsuharu the health and rudder shift benefits from the B Hull on her A Hull.

(Fyi, her B hull is a trap for players leaking salvia while staring at the 10km range on the torpedoes.

Her 5 gun layout, especially in combination with SE, gives her the capability to give any gunboat a run for it's money)

 

Agree. These mid tier i have lack of experience on.. Your point is good tho. i understand it well.

 

Speaking on high tiers, mainly saying on Shimakaze.. I dont mind giving her old torps but shorting the range of torps. You can see how 15 torps have the least torpedo hit ratio while the gearing have better Torp hit ratio. So implying players in shima cant torp well? Nah cause its the torps. The torps can be seen from the Moon. 

 

Base concealment of the torps and the reaction time is worse than other DDs. Implying ijn have the best torps but it was nerf so bad. Their ship concealment is contested by USN too. 

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- Give Fubuki a 5 gun hull like Hatsuharu to make her combatitive during the cap/area contesting phase.

 

If that's not possible due to "historical correctness" then either scrap her and add a replacement, or consider another solution.

 

(Torp buffs, gun buffs, whatever... right now I'm writing any Fubuki off as a free kill no matter how good the player may be, these 4 guns are in the wrong spot to be effective)

 

Actually Fubuki used to a have a 3 x 2 gun layout back when she was in Tier 8, which was actually her historical configuration if I am not wrong. It was similar to the current Akatsuki.The current layout the Tier 6 Fubuki has is a late-war war refit, which removes one of the turrets in place for more AA. The Shinonome still has the 3 x 2 layout.

Edited by Thyaliad

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Super Tester
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Actually Fubuki used to a have a 3 x 2 gun layout back when she was in Tier 8, which was actually her historical configuration if I am not wrong. It was similar to the current Akatsuki.The current layout the Tier 6 Fubuki has is a late-war war refit, which removes one of the turrets in place for more AA. The Shinonome still has the 3 x 2 layout.

 

I'm well aware of this, but stock Hatsuharu with 5 guns is on par with other DDs of her tier, old 3x2 Fubuki, even with nerfed stats like turning circle, rudder shift time, etc. would

probably be way too strong.

Can't say anything about Shinonome, I don't play tier VIII+, hence I'll never own one and hardly ever seem to face one either.

If it's the same layout as old Fubuki or Akatsuki then she's probably quite strong in destroyer duels.

 

Why did Hatsuharu miss out on the Turret Traverse buff all the others received?

 

See above, Hatsuharu with A hull and SE can easily deal with other destroyers of her tier.

Rather than a turret traverse buff I'd still prefer to see the B Hull statistical benefits applied to her A hull.

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Beta Tester
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I remember back in the days, where my Minekaze could outgun any DD that came at me due to that OP maneuverability. Now, I only my Kamikaze which escaped the nerf bat.

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RU has a very "yolo" meta.

 

Not surprised as even in WoT, RU players are like that.

 

Back to topic, I used to enjoy IJN DDs up to the Minekaze. But playing Fubuki and Hatsuharu right now (especially on tier 8 games) is a nightmare, all I can really do is to evade detection, launch torps, and pray at least one of them hit. Guns are just last-ditch weapons. I don't touch them anymore after I get the first win bonus for them.

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