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0.6.4 German CA Armour Change - Is It Really a Buff?

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As per the linked info here: http://forum.worldofwarships.asia/index.php?/topic/24116-german-cruisers-performance-buff-poll/page__st__40__pid__305406#entry305406

 

Admiral Hipper, Hindenburg, Prinz Eugen, Roon: the thickness of the plating of the bow and stern tip, casings of the casemate and the corresponding decks is increased from 25 to 27 mm.

 

This change should increase the survivability and combat effectiveness of cruisers. Now the listed sections of the hull will be protected from penetration of high-explosive shells caliber 152 and 155 mm. Also, 27 mm armor makes it impossible for unconditional penetration of armor-piercing projectiles with calibers 380 and 381 mm.

 

 

Firstly, let's have a look at the current Admiral Hipper.

 

ij288pf.jpg

 

 

Let's aim for that 25mm bow section in the Training Room, using the dreaded 152mm guns of Mikhail Kutuzov.

 

2HrIsO2.jpg

 

 

Okay, we're nice and close and ready to- WHO'S FIRING THAT SECONDARY GUN?? Cease fire! Cease fire!

 

U45terp.jpg

 

 

After a short while of continuous HE blasting, the results...

 

Ya06DfN.jpg

 

 

So, the 25mm sections - which are prevalent on all non-UK Cruisers at Tier 8 and above - already defeat 152mm HE. Raising it to 27mm is of no benefit here.

 

There are, however, two weapons which will be affected by the 27mm thickness: the 155mm guns of the stock Mogami, which currently penetrate 25mm, but not 27mm; battleship AP of 380mm and 381mm (15-inch) will overmatch 25mm, but auto-bounce off 27mm at steep angles.

 

In conclusion, it's a very mild, situational buff. Reading the developer explanation of the changes makes me wonder if that person actually understands how the HE penetration mechanics function.

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I also dislike this buff. If they want to buff the survivability of t8 cruisers, they should give them heal. Currently non-smoke, non-heal cruisers like Hipper/NO/Mogami have no method to fight at decent effectiveness after suffering damage. Heck I'd like to go as far as giving all t4+ cruisers repair party.

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I also dislike this buff. If they want to buff the survivability of t8 cruisers, they should give them heal. Currently non-smoke, non-heal cruisers like Hipper/NO/Mogami have no method to fight at decent effectiveness after suffering damage. Heck I'd like to go as far as giving all t4+ cruisers repair party.

 

Nurnberg too please.... AGREE, they should add heal for KM CA starting from nurnberg to balance ITS POOR survivability. increasing armor is useless,since BB will delete the half of your HP.

 

Nurnberg are not fun

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Nurnberg too please.... AGREE, they should add heal for KM CA starting from nurnberg to balance ITS POOR survivability. increasing armor is useless,since BB will delete the half of your HP.

 

Nurnberg are not fun

 

Why should Nurnberg need it when every AP that hit it will result in a cit? And you can't repair citadel damages :trollface:

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It's a minor adjustment that probably isn't going to affect Gameplay/ viability of German Cruisers that much(as some of us might have anticipated )

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Why should Nurnberg need it when every AP that hit it will result in a cit? And you can't repair citadel damages :trollface:

 

what? so every damage i took is actually citadel hits? well, its explain....

and btw, when i am angled againts cruiser still take a lot of damage. its look like its not viable for yolo

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Why should Nurnberg need it when every AP that hit it will result in a cit? And you can't repair citadel damages :trollface:

BB repair can recovery 10% citadel damage.

High tier CA repair party can do 30%.

British CL, was it 30% or 50%?

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Best buff for German CAs shoild be invincibility to damage for the 1st 10 mins of a match. 

 

A bit like the Iron Curtain superpower from those old Red Alert games. 

 

#shitpost

Edited by LordTyphoon

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One does not simply yolo in Nurnberg.

 

we are talkin about No 1 German Science, most of KM BB are YOLOERS. WG hate KM CA SO MUUUCH.... give it HEAL ALREADY!

 

German CL/CA is planned to have 100% with 10 charge, 20 sec cooldown

 

:izmena:

 

Best buff for German CAs shoild be invincibility to damage for the 1st 19 mins of a match. 

 

A bit like the Iron Curtain superpower from those old Red Alert games. 

 

#REALpost

 

:izmena:

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None of the KM CAs I've played are really all that good for going yolo, you shouldn't be doing that. I've still only played up to Nurnberg so I can't comment on later ships, but the Nurnberg and Konigsberg can be very dangerous, but at close range they don't have the survivability required for a brawl, although their AP is very dangerous. I managed to sink an Atago once after ambushing it from behind an island, I shot him up with AP (scoring multiple citadel hits each salvo, he was broadside on.) Cause of his low RoF he only got off one HE salvo before being sunk. Did that in the Nurnberg.

 

Generally it's best to fight from range with the Kongisberg and Nurnberg, using your WASD hax you can dodge a surprising amount of shells and with your fairly accurate guns with good RoF you can rain HE and take opportunistic AP shots. You really need to be supporting another ship, like a larger cruiser or BB. You can support a DD in a cap but that can put you too close to the enemy cruisers and BBs. If you get caught out up close launch your fish and use AP when you can, but don't expect to come out with much HP or to survive unless you're lucky.

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All KM cruisers > t8 need the following to make them more competitive:

 

  1. Concealment buff, the ability to engage and disengage and to actually sneak into a position to use the fantastic AP is severly hampered by lack of concealment. This would increase survivability way more than a small addition of armour.
  2. Like all T8+ CA the Hipper needs a heal, this is now a must on all T8+ Ca and I hope WG recognises this in the near future.

 

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All KM cruisers > t8 need the following to make them more competitive:

 

  1. Concealment buff, the ability to engage and disengage and to actually sneak into a position to use the fantastic AP is severly hampered by lack of concealment. This would increase survivability way more than a small addition of armour.
  2. Like all T8+ CA the Hipper needs a heal, this is now a must on all T8+ Ca and I hope WG recognises this in the near future.

 

 

With tier 8 seeing so much tier 10 matching making don't disagree with the heal buff, only problem is when they are top tier against tier 6 this would kind of be OP like it is currently with Atago and Mik (not heal but smoke which is as good as).

 

Was expecting something more like AP Shell performance or a concealment buff... 25 to 27mm bow armor changes nothing except a handfull of BBs being unable to overmatch anymore.

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With tier 8 seeing so much tier 10 matching making don't disagree with the heal buff, only problem is when they are top tier against tier 6 this would kind of be OP like it is currently with Atago and Mik (not heal but smoke which is as good as).

 

Was expecting something more like AP Shell performance or a concealment buff... 25 to 27mm bow armor changes nothing except a handfull of BBs being unable to overmatch anymore.

Ibuki will be even more meh if Mogami gets repair party.

Just a handful now, but other European battleships also used 15" guns and this buff will be more valuable in the future. Also both Bismarck and Tirpitz are quite popular ships.

Edited by _Halcyon

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With tier 8 seeing so much tier 10 matching making don't disagree with the heal buff, only problem is when they are top tier against tier 6 this would kind of be OP like it is currently with Atago and Mik (not heal but smoke which is as good as).

 

Was expecting something more like AP Shell performance or a concealment buff... 25 to 27mm bow armor changes nothing except a handfull of BBs being unable to overmatch anymore.

 

get heal but MM 8 to 10

 

no heal MM 6 to 8

 

but then T6 will be pissed meeting T8 same as T8 meet T10

 

T8 cruisers such a headache now

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With tier 8 seeing so much tier 10 matching making don't disagree with the heal buff, only problem is when they are top tier against tier 6 this would kind of be OP like it is currently with Atago and Mik (not heal but smoke which is as good as).

 

True, true but it's not really different for T7 ships seeing T9 or the current T8 seeing T10 without heal. Something will be always be more op than others unless we add heal to all cruisers (and I am not opposed to that by the way!).

 

T8 is seeing a hell of a lot more 9/10 now than in the past though, probably because of a combination of premium camo and game age meaning more people have reached higher tiers.

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True, true but it's not really different for T7 ships seeing T9 or the current T8 seeing T10 without heal. Something will be always be more op than others unless we add heal to all cruisers (and I am not opposed to that by the way!).

 

T8 is seeing a hell of a lot more 9/10 now than in the past though, probably because of a combination of premium camo and game age meaning more people have reached higher tiers.

 

Playing Hipper/Eugen is a real task in a 9/10 battle, nobody takes you as a real threat because of your low DPM when they are angled, you will often just spam meh HE and only get one AP salvo while your target turns away because of your slow reload (of which the AP can troll you), and one mistake and your deleted or focused down because you often cant go dark with 11.5km concealment and everyone knows your just a meal.

 

Compared this to playing in the Atago (concealment, armor, heal, good HE), Kutuzov (Smoke & IFHE), Edinburgh (Smoke, Maneuverability & Troll AP) , Chap (Radar, IFHE & Concealment) and even now New Orleans (9.1km concealment, Maneuverability, Radar, Troll AP & Solid HE) is so much easier.

 

Fact is if I'm in a T8+ BB or even CA I laugh at a Hipper/Eugen... no threat what so ever, can be outplayed so easily. If i see a Kutuzov, etc however that gets my attention.

 

Even the Roon/Hinden i find myself spamming HE most of the time... is this how the "AP Specialist" line should be played?

 

I would like to see a KM CA T8-10 AP shell buff at least tested on the PTS, cos right now playing the Hipper/Eugen especially is just dead weight to your team unless your playing broadside potatoes or top tier which is not very often.

 

An extra 2mm of bow armor isn't going to change any of this.

Edited by KillStealz

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Playing Hipper/Eugen is a real task in a 9/10 battle, nobody takes you as a real threat because of your low DPM when they are angled, you will often just spam meh HE and only get one AP salvo while your target turns away because of your slow reload (of which the AP can troll you), and one mistake and your deleted or focused down because you often cant go dark with 11.5km concealment and everyone knows your just a meal.

 

Compared this to playing in the Atago (concealment, armor, heal, good HE), Kutuzov (Smoke & IFHE), Edinburgh (Smoke & troll AP) , Chap (Radar, IFHE & Concealment) and even now New Orleans (9.1km concealment, Radar, Troll AP & Solid HE) is so much easier.

 

Fact is if I'm in a T8+ BB or even CA I laugh at a Hipper/Eugen... no threat what so ever, can be outplayed so easily. If i see a Kutuzov, etc however that gets my attention.

 

Even the Roon/Hinden i find myself spamming HE most of the time... is this how the "AP Specialist" line should be played?

 

I would like to see a KM CA T8-10 AP shell buff at least tested on the PTS, cos right now playing the Hipper/Eugen especially is just dead weight to your team unless your playing broadside potatoes or top tier which is not very often.

 

An extra 2mm of bow armor isn't going to change any of this.

 

Definitely! All the 2mm of extra bow armour will do is not allow you to be overmatched by some other T8 BBs (Bismarck etc). It does nothing for the other problems you have highlighted. 

 

DPM buff, concealment buff is what is really needed. 

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Why would 25/27mm armor matters anyway since players that uses 150s also take IFHE that pens 32mm of armor? This is what happened when you do balancing based on theories rather than actual practice on live server.

 

Oh well, a buff is a buff I guess. Should we call this an indirect nerf to all German 380s instead?

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Just a handful now, but other European battleships also used 15" guns and this buff will be more valuable in the future. Also both Bismarck and Tirpitz are quite popular ships.

 

That's a good point. The French and Italian Tier 8 Battleships will almost certainly be armed with 15" rifles, and there's at least one upcoming British ship also armed with that calibre.

 

So to clarify, this buff will potentially improve facetanking against a decent number of battleships, and stock Mogami's who haven't trained IFHE.

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It sure buff,.....                       into a wrong direction

 

low combat effectiveness were not because of low survivability of German CA. they are durable ships imo

but their AP were unreliable and HE is weak.

 

their capabilities to deal damage were impresive on paper. Highest  Broadside AP dmg - across the board, good torpedo angle with torpedo alpha that can kill most ships

but they were zhilaohu or "paper tiger", like those girl on social media that have pretty profile picture but only 6/10 on reality :x

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I would rather want to see buffed krupp value so that german cruisers are able to punish mistakes correctly instead of relying on rng to do so. Buffing armor wont make you immune to the lol cit pen the class is famous for getting

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Why should Nurnberg need it when every AP that hit it will result in a cit? And you can't repair citadel damages :trollface:

 

I

IRC cruiser heal can heal 33% of citadel damage, while BBs can only heal 10% of citadel damage.

Edited by Jeruk_Swag

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Guys who has assess to PT, mind sharing any difference in playing KM CA with increase plating thickness? :)

 

I played a few Roon games on Public Test and the results were... nothing. On the Test Server there's literally only two ships that you can encounter that will be affected by the new armour: Bismarck and stock Mogami without IFHE.

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