Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Fortgas_Sabo

Germany CA and DD AP

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Member
21 posts
4,877 battles

vs42RW8.jpgHi captains,

I think everyone here have already known that Germany CAs and DDs are good at AP right? But that not the true, their AP only good at alpha damage. They have the worst AP penetration among all other CA/CL lines. Why a AP-concentrated line have the worst AP penetration? There was a time that a Hipper can citadel an Amagi at 15km but now, your shell will be shattered even if he full broadside. They really need a buff in AP, AP not HE please, NOT HE. Here is AP penetration of tier 10 cruisers (UK AP hace different mechanic so it not included)   

 

 

17342916_1979031352328772_8484580639977411643_n.jpg

Edited by Fortgas_Sabo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
139
[BOTES]
Member
438 posts
3,955 battles

The usual justification for the German Cruiser's poor AP penetration is either balanse or historical reasons. 

 

To OP: 1. Where/ how did you get those values from? it would be difficult to progress discussion if we can't verify their validity and 2. can you make a graph with stronger colour contrast between the 5 curves

 

Edited by 9mm1n

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
21 posts
4,877 battles

The usual justification for the German Cruiser's poor AP penetration is either balanse or historical reasons. 

 

To OP: 1. Where/ how did you get those values from? it would be difficult to progress discussion if we can't verify their validity and 2. can you make a graph with stronger colour contrast between the 5 curves

 

I get it from a leaker, Henri IV is the upcoming tier 10 France CA 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,107 posts
7,844 battles

German AP shell is white because its made of chalk

 

on the other hand, its quite known that German AP shell were inferior quality compared to the allied on WW2, often shatter on impact

British, after jutland start crash programe to fix their chalky shells - the germans did not. thats why their shell design and quality not improved much

Interesting piece of history trivia were the British Shell commite, doing test to penetrate 10inch plate placed on 20 degree angle

12 inch Germans failed, 12 inch British failed, they tried with their 13.5 inch (BL MKV - the gun placed on orion class super dreadnought) Gun - also failed - the one that penetrate that plate were Russian 12 inch APC "stalinium" shell 

Edited by humusz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
980 posts
12,617 battles

12 inch Germans failed, 12 inch British failed, they tried with their 13.5 inch (BL MKV - the gun placed on orion class super dreadnought) Gun - also failed - the one that penetrate that plate were Russian 12 inch APC "stalinium" shell 

 

FINALLY! Historical proof that the Moskva's guns are balanced! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,105 posts

well..... German CA are ridiculously WEAK.

 

1. AP is Bullsheet.... 75 hit = 1K damage [ want screenshot ? ]

2. its HE is useless.... no cause fire et al!

3. WEAK ARMOR, easy getting killed

4. Stupid accuracy, making the long range spamming miss.... 

5. most turret placed in the back.... making you broadside most of the time!

 

the exception is for graf spee..... its turret BB but with CA armor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
634 posts
6,217 battles

well..... German CA are ridiculously WEAK.

 

1. AP is Bullsheet.... 75 hit = 1K damage [ want screenshot ? ]

2. its HE is useless.... no cause fire et al!

3. WEAK ARMOR, easy getting killed

4. Stupid accuracy, making the long range spamming miss.... 

5. most turret placed in the back.... making you broadside most of the time!

 

the exception is for graf spee..... its turret BB but with CA armor

 

 Your Argument is invalid

1. Ehh, Konigsberg and Nurnberg's guns do a lot of AP damage, you just did not hit the right places, aim for the super structure of BB.

2. Lower fire chance than the IJN does not mean no fires set.

3. Again, only Konigsberg and Burnberg suffer from this problem

4. All cruisers havce 2.0 sigma, your argument is invalid

5. Again, only 3 cruisers on the german cruiser line have this layout, also, it is very effective for the kiting maneuver. 

 

So in conclusion, why dont you get good and learn their strengths and actually play some high tier german cruisers before complaining?

 

Edited by TorpedoBeat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
139
[BOTES]
Member
438 posts
3,955 battles

 

 Your Argument is invalid

1. Ehh, Konigsberg and Nurnberg's guns do a lot of AP damage, you just did not hit the right places, aim for the super structure.

2. Lower fire chance than the IJN does not mean no fires set.

3. Again, only Konigsberg and Burnberg suffer from this problem

4. All cruisers havce 2.0 sigma, your argument is invalid

5. Again, only 3 cruisers on the german cruiser line have this layout, also, it is very effective for the kiting maneuver. 

 

So in conclusion, why dont you get good and learn their strengths and actually play some high tier german cruisers before complaining?

 

 

1. Konigsberg and Nurnberg are Light Cruisers(CL), not Heavy Cruiser(CA) which this topic specifies

3. Even the Tier 8,9 Cruisers, namely Hipper and Roon is very fragile with their armour considering their size and maneuverability

4. Try firing Hipper guns at 15km+ enemies

5. Just because the weakness is present only on a selection of vehicles doesn't make it lesser of a problem, also, it is very ineffective for pushing

Edited by 9mm1n

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,859 posts
5,797 battles

German AP shell is white because its made of chalk

 

on the other hand, its quite known that German AP shell were inferior quality compared to the allied on WW2, often shatter on impact

British, after jutland start crash programe to fix their chalky shells - the germans did not. thats why their shell design and quality not improved much

Interesting piece of history trivia were the British Shell commite, doing test to penetrate 10inch plate placed on 20 degree angle

12 inch Germans failed, 12 inch British failed, they tried with their 13.5 inch (BL MKV - the gun placed on orion class super dreadnought) Gun - also failed - the one that penetrate that plate were Russian 12 inch APC "stalinium" shell 

 

​*feels the power of Stalin inside*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,105 posts

 

 Your Argument is invalid

1. Ehh, Konigsberg and Nurnberg's guns do a lot of AP damage, you just did not hit the right places, aim for the super structure of BB.

2. Lower fire chance than the IJN does not mean no fires set.

3. Again, only Konigsberg and Burnberg suffer from this problem

4. All cruisers havce 2.0 sigma, your argument is invalid

5. Again, only 3 cruisers on the german cruiser line have this layout, also, it is very effective for the kiting maneuver. 

 

So in conclusion, why dont you get good and learn their strengths and actually play some high tier german cruisers before complaining?

 

 

1. spamming from far away = MISSED, spamming from medium/short = dead

2. from 15 salvo (1 salvo = all turret), only 1 cause fire?

3. karlsruhe before the buff LOL

4. it have higher dispersion compared to other

5. kiting? its DESTROYED easily.... 

 

i am noob? YES! that is why i am quitting those line!

4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
520 posts
11,127 battles

Im my experience.. GERMAN DD AP is pretty effective if you know where to shoot.

 

Ive been using tier 7 MAAS and Tier 8 Z23.

And im about to get to tier 9 Z46.

 

Regarding CL/CA for germany.. I dont have much info as im not a Cruiser player except for British Cruisers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,068 posts
3,847 battles

well..... German CA are ridiculously WEAK.

 

1. AP is Bullsheet.... 75 hit = 1K damage [ want screenshot ? ]

2. its HE is useless.... no cause fire et al!

3. WEAK ARMOR, easy getting killed

4. Stupid accuracy, making the long range spamming miss.... 

5. most turret placed in the back.... making you broadside most of the time!

 

the exception is for graf spee..... its turret BB but with CA armor

 

Firstly,you need to WASD like crazy while playing cruisers.PLUS you should be on a constant look out for what is targeting you and taking evasive action as needed.Players getting deleted quickly are usually playing them like BB and sailing broadside.Make yourself hard to hit.

 

The Nurnberg is one of the most fragile ships in the game,and you WILL get one shot at any time,but you can deal out heaps of damage if you know how to use it properly.I'll take it over the Cleveland any day!

 

German AP is awesome,even the Yorck is as long as you know to only use it at under 10km at broadside targets.When shooting cruisers you need to aim at the waterline and you will get citadels no problems.BB you can aim for superstructure like others have said.I only switch to HE if I don't get damage after a few salvos,and then switch back again as soon as I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,105 posts

whoah, its look like i am really bad at weak ship like CL or DD (i mean in tankiness)

just look at my horrible KM CA stat LOL

 

sry to derail this thread, but i dont want to spam create thread. so i will ask here:

1. what is the best BB line for sniping? USN have good accuracy but shorter range than IJN -_-

2. how about Yorck or Hipper? did they AP have good penetration? is that ship good for potato?

3. BEST SHIP Line FOR YOLO (1 vs >4)? beside CV of course.....

4. what is the pros and con of KM DD?

 

 

Firstly,you need to WASD like crazy while playing cruisers.PLUS you should be on a constant look out for what is targeting you and taking evasive action as needed.Players getting deleted quickly are usually playing them like BB and sailing broadside.Make yourself hard to hit.

 

getting hit from the bow = HP become 2000 sunk less than 1 min after that

try to kite = incapacitated = sunk

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skarhabek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
420 posts
20 battles

I even used survivability expert on Konigsberg haha.

German AP has lower penetration, but they hurt a lot when happen.

Because they have lower penetration, you could possibly damage DD or French CA (?) with German AP without a lot of overpen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,107 posts
7,844 battles

 

FINALLY! Historical proof that the Moskva's guns are balanced! 

 

Nah, Russian gun were good penetration and have very high velocity, but it also that was the biggest drawback

since it have low endurance, most of their gun need their barrel re-allign and replaced after 100 to 150 shell passed through it or risk mallfuntion/missfire

other nations that used medium velocity guns so it can last 350 to 450 shoots, making the ships dont always back to port after battle for overhaulling - making the ship have better endurance and seakeeping quality and less downtime for repair

 

that component not matter on WoW though, since you go to port after battle anyways lol

Rusky gun, stronkkk

Edited by humusz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,068 posts
3,847 battles

whoah, its look like i am really bad at weak ship like CL or DD (i mean in tankiness)

just look at my horrible KM CA stat LOL

 

sry to derail this thread, but i dont want to spam create thread. so i will ask here:

1. what is the best BB line for sniping? USN have good accuracy but shorter range than IJN -_-

2. how about Yorck or Hipper? did they AP have good penetration? is that ship good for potato?

3. BEST SHIP Line FOR YOLO (1 vs >4)? beside CV of course.....

4. what is the pros and con of KM DD?

 

 

getting hit from the bow = HP become 2000 sunk less than 1 min after that

try to kite = incapacitated = sunk

 

 

 

Firstly,I looked at your stats,and you are still fairly new to the game,so it will take a while to really work out how to play it well.From what I understand a lot of players have well under a 50% win rate,and you are at 50% so you are doing well.

 

Its not about being bad,cruiser are just hard to play well and survive while doing it.At least you are talking about it and wanting to get better,lots of people don't!WG keeps complaining about cruisers not being as popular,but the skill level is very high for most of them so if you don't play them right you will die a lot.That puts people off them and they just go back to BB.

 

Playing cruisers,especially the Nurnberg is all about being aware of what going on around you.You need to know what ships you are in range of THEIR guns,and if they may be firing at you.And take evasive turns as necessary.Once you are used to it you should be  able to hit targets reliably at its max range of 16km giving you time to dodge return fire.Use AP and aim at the waterline,you should be able to get high damage numbers and citadels on enemy cruisers once you get some practice.

 

And in the Nurnberg you will have games where you are sailing around with no health no left!I have been one shot by Kongos from 20km,and bow on to a North Carolina at 6km ( trying to cap and didn't realise it was there!I went bow on expecting BB dispersion to make it miss,and then torpedo it.I lost!)

 

These are my Nurnberg stats:

 

 

 

The damage numbers can come out fairly low,but I have gotten enough good ones to have an average that is higher than average for the ship.And as you can see its possible to break 100k in a good game.

 

Yorck is another one that is hard to learn,but pays off once you do.Its guns can't keep up with your rudder in a hard turn,so you need to use both rudder and speed to get them around sometimes onto target.It also is mainly about HE,only use AP under 10km and at broadside targets.

 

Hipper is very good with fast turning turrets and excellent AP.A few people bag it,but they aren't using it right.And its accurate out to its max gun range to.If you figure out how to play the Nurnberg well,then you will love the Hipper.Only real problem when using it is getting uptiered to T10,I haven't found how to use it well there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×