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HMS_Swiftsure_08

Tier 8 Soviet cruisers, now and future.

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In a previous discussion about how OP is a Kutuzov, I claimed Chapayev is equally powerful and both should be nerfed. (Or neither, and nerf IFHE instead) I was at Shchors back then, and now I have Chapayev and have played a few games in her. I still hold this opinion, but would add that Mikhail Kutuzov is easier to play and less captain demanding. A noob like me can't handle the radar responsibility and invisifire ability of Chapayev but anyone can simply slow down, pop smoke and hydro and start HE spamming. Also Kutuzov can work without CE but Chapayev definitely needs it. I contributed quite a few DevStrikes during my earlier Chapayev game trying to support DD early on. But I'm getting better and starting to understand how Chapayev should work. Kutuzov, I'm always doing fine in her and never felt I did something so WRONG like how I feel when I play Chapayev. But still, I'm having fun on Chapayev and will definitely keep her if she remain like this.

 

But as leaks about new patches are coming out, some indicate that invisifire will be removed in 0.6.3. As Chapayev lacks both maneuverability and armor, she currently often rely on invisifire to do damage. As for Kutuzov, she can invisifire. But at almost 18km away… Seriously? So removing invisifire is clearly a nerf for Chapayev and does not practically affect Kutuzov. So guys, I have a few questions.

1. Will you, as a battleship, fire at a Chapayev 15km away and running away from you?

2. Do you think Chapayev's radar value can still make her be equally good as Kutuzov?

BTW devs said there won't be a generic buff for ships that lose invisifire ability.

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a nerf for Chapayev and does not practically affect Kutuzov. So g

 

reduce Kutuzov gun range, torp range
Edited by MatterCore

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1. Yes, but not the highest priority. Still, the priority is higher than shooting bow or stern-on BB. I will consider it has less priority if the range exceeds 20km.

2. Never have or tried both ship idk.

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ship build in 1950s but vs ships build 1930-1940, how fair how coward how sickness WG put in game

absolutely cheat

Edited by MatterCore

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Chapayev DMD Moskva were on blue prints on cold war

Chapayev is cheat about radar and concealment AA too but they can counter with paper armor

DMD is %#)&&$# armor 404 not found superb main guns and fastest cruiser maximum 37.8knots with flag (faster than base speed of Gearing)

Moskva AP ? I can citadel any ship in the game any range don't care! HE? Zao 2.0 version Stalinium with space armor

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Moskva AP ? I can citadel any ship in the game any range don't care! HE? Zao 2.0 version Stalinium with space armor

 

most ridiculous Russian warship

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Chapayev DMD Moskva were on blue prints on cold war

Chapayev is cheat about radar and concealment AA too but they can counter with paper armor

DMD is %#)&&$# armor 404 not found superb main guns and fastest cruiser maximum 37.8knots with flag (faster than base speed of Gearing)

Moskva AP ? I can citadel any ship in the game any range don't care! HE? Zao 2.0 version Stalinium with space armor

Chapayev was actually built. Started as Project 68 before the war, their construction was delayed and disturbed by the Germans' invasion. Five were finished post war in a modified design (68-K) featuring better AA suite and sensor system. However as the more advanced 68bis entered service soon after, 68-K never see much modernization and most of her class were decommissioned 1960s.

 

IIRC Dimitri was wargaming's own creation, the Soviets never made a 4*3 180mm gun blueprint cruiser.

 

Moskva was Project 66, a heavy cruiser meant to fight Des Moines. Analysis after Stalin's death considered this ship less powerful than DM, but in-game… Russian bias.

Edited by _Halcyon

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Kutuzov is a premium and traditionally premiums are not nerfed unless affected by an overall change. Buff Chapayev instead.

 

MK needs radar - they said

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Moskva was Project 66, a heavy cruiser meant to fight Des Moines. Analysis after Stalin's death considered this ship less powerful than DM, but in-game… Russian bias.

 

they didnt have a CA, how could they suppose that thing stronger than Yamato:angry:, they are turning their ships like fairy tales where RU become the strongest

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MK needs radar - they said

On a second thought, I'm with MK getting the same radar as Chapayev in the current patch. But in the smoke slot. Kutuzov have better survivability, torps and AA, Chapayev has better concealment and ability to invisifire effectively, and when Chapayev gets detected and pop radar, the DD is in her effective range. The reason I'm with Kutuzov getting a radar is historical facts. Kutuzov is a more advanced ship and her stock sensor system was more advanced than what Chapayev ever got.

Edited by _Halcyon

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Chapayev has better concealment and ability to invisifire effectively

An ability that will be gone soon. Then Kutuzov will go far out of reach of any tech tree cruiser in performance.

 

That abomination junk needs to be nerfed.

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An ability that will be gone soon. Then Kutuzov will go far out of reach of any tech tree cruiser in performance.

 

That abomination junk needs to be nerfed.

I started this thread to discuss about how Chapayev will be like after invisifiring is gone. So put your hate aside and discuss rationally.

Before you proceed, I hope you can take some time and read my opinion

 1. Nerfing premium? Ain't happening. Wargaming is a commercial company, and is more realistic than us players. Nerfing premium ships means raging community, compensation, company credibility crisis. It's more trouble than good. So traditionally, premium ships are not nerfed individually.

 

2. But there are ways of balancing premiums. By buffing non-premium of the same tier or affect the premium by an overall change. IIRC Tirpitz's gun was considered much accurate back when she was first released late OBT, but it's quite meh now due to a dispersion rework that affects all ships. She was considered much OP compared to NC and Amagi back then. Now there's Bismarck which I think is more powerful than Tirpitz, Amagi's armor is now trolling every and each gun of WoWS, and NC got a big accuracy buff. Tirpitz is a perfect demonstration of how to balance a premium. Oh, and the devs brutally killed my Tirpitz's catapult fighter! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!

 

3. Yeah so let's rework T8 cruisers and make them balanced just like T8 BB! Ain't happening. There are simply too many cruisers at T8 to balance. And the devs never seem to remember Hipper and Prinz since centuries ago. I think we just need a non premium just as OP as Kutuzov. And we have it, Chapayev for now.

 

4. But but, the next patch will remove invisifire, and the devs said no buff. Just like I said previously, it means a nerf. I made two questions above to see how much will the change affect Chapayev. Suppose if people don't shoot Chapayev 15+km away, it means no nerf right? Invisifiring and firing detected but not targeted, same thing. I only have German BBs at high tiers and I haven't played them recently so my personal preference doesn't count, but I do target these glass ships alone with Kutuzov.(Kutuzov have better maneuverability tho)

 

5. So considering this, Chapayev will be facing harder times. And the devs said no buff. But look at the positive side, no buff means no generic buff for ships that lose Invisifiring. It doesn't mean no buff if the ship perform sucks after the change. Z-52 is getting a buff soon, and probably Grozovoi. I'm pretty sure a buff will be made for Chapayev if the devs see their Russian bias ships bullied.

BTW I prepared some free EXP and planning to get Donskoi the day Invisifiring is removed. 

Edited by _Halcyon

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I don't give a damn about how ruined WG little business will be if they nerf the Kutuzov. Who's fault the Kutuzov become a disgusting abomination now? WG. Now if they're an actual competent company, I dare them to fix this abomination, and stop putting more balance failure-money grabbing premium in this game. 

 

Their attempts to grab money out of their player is straight up disgusting recently. This game is P2W now, look at how uncompetitive T7 tech tree ships is against their premium counterpart(-BBs) and T8 cruisers are also ruled by Kutuzov and Atago. Both of them far outperform the tech tree counterpart. Texas-NY, Kutuzov-Chapa, Atago-Mogami, Leningrad-Minsk, Blyska/Sims-Mahan/Akatsuki/Maas, and many more. All of those premium are straight up better than their tech tree counterpart. 

 

I bet we'll see a T10 premium soon. Kutuzov and all of WG's money grabbing flagship are becoming more and more disgusting each patch. And that needs to stop.

Edited by Admiral_Turing

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I don't give a damn about how ruined WG little business will be if they nerf the Kutuzov. Who's fault the Kutuzov become a disgusting abomination now? WG. Now if they're an actual competent company, I dare them to fix this abomination, and stop putting more balance failure-money grabbing premium in this game. 

 

Their attempts to grab money out of their player is straight up disgusting recently. This game is P2W now, look at how uncompetitive T7 tech tree ships is against their premium counterpart(-BBs) and T8 cruisers are also ruled by Kutuzov and Atago. Both of them far outperform the tech tree counterpart. Texas-NY, Kutuzov-Chapa, Atago-Mogami, Leningrad-Minsk, Blyska/Sims-Mahan/Akatsuki/Maas, and many more. All of those premium are straight up better than their tech tree counterpart. 

 

I bet we'll see a T10 premium soon. Kutuzov and all of WG's money grabbing flagship are becoming more and more disgusting each patch. And that needs to stop.

You are still raging, I see no need for further discuss.

I want a rational discussion, not yet another rant. If you want to rant, just post your own thread and don't forget to mark "rant" in the title.

Edited by _Halcyon

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