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Sparcie

Cleveland, once good, now a salt machine

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Wow, I haven't played the Cleveland in a while and boy has it changed. Guns are about the same, but she has become squishy, really squishy. Everyone still focus fires on her as if she's dangerous, but she'd be lucky to hit them in return let alone do any damage. You never used to have to play her like I've heard atlanta players do, but now if you're spotted you're dead, so you better hug those islands and hope you got a map and lineup that means you can do any damage at all. Without carriers playing she has become a worthless ship. I think she needs some love and perhaps a gentle buff of some kind. She is the unfortunate victim of power creep

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Super Tester
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Agreed, Cleveland needs a buff badly.

Like 20k more hitpoints or twice the reload speed or perhaps increasing her HE shell damage by 5k.

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Basically WG has been sticking to reality when it comes to armor layout, except the hull thickness, which is generally unified by tier. Also ballistics is close to how they were historically.
So Cleveland's armor problem should be addressed to her designer, who is most likely dead… The gun problem too.
I think what Cleveland really needs some love is her concealment. Which is a value indicating how drunk WG devs were when they modelled the ship. (Tell me WG, why a 30000+ ton treaty battleship can be as concealing as a light cruiser? I'm talking about Mikhail Kutuzov and North Carolina)
So basically, buffing Cleveland's concealment can both counter both her survivability and gun problem, being less focused upon and making getting into effective range easier.

Edited by _Halcyon

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Just wait till the USN CA and CL tech tree split, Cleveland probably gonna be buffed and moved to Tier 8.

but that probably won't happen within a year from now.

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Cleveland only needs a small buff - just give her radar and smoke and she'll be fine.

Nope.

Concealment problem.

She'll be fine if she was using Russian 152mm which has superb ballistics and shell speed, but 152mm/47… no, basically if you want to pop your smoke without being detected, you aren't even in the effective range yet, if you try to get into your effective range you get detected and concentrated upon.

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I don't know about other people but I find abusing islands pretty potent in Cleveland. I have been getting pretty good survivability using thos strategy but I'm still quite new to thr Cleveland....

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Yes islands seem to help a lot, but you have to be lucky enough to land on a map with islands you can really abuse. It can be a little boring but it works. I had one battle on two brothers yesterday that went well because of that. I've noticed that there are a few islands that end up being crowded as others get the same idea.

 

The main issue with her guns is that most (with a few exceptions) ships that she faces have longer range, better velocity and arc. Clevelands guns start being really useful at about 12-13k, many tier 6 cruisers have a 2-3km advantage over that, and can use their guns effectively near the max range. It makes it hard to get close enough to shoot much. One upside of her guns how ever is the awesome AP, if you're close enough and are positioned correctly it does wreck face.

 

Her survivability seems to be borked somehow, pretty much anyone shooting at any angle from any distance can get maximum damage. When I've been shooting at her myself I've noticed it's _much_ easier to do massive damage to her. Something which never happened before, it used to be considered a tough little ship.

 

Although it doesn't matter gameplay wise, the actual ships were noted in their careers as being quite tough (the designers actually did quite well). So WG aren't doing well with either ballistics or armour in terms of historic accuracy, not that it matters. But it would be nice if the ship were more playable than it is now.

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So basically, buffing Cleveland's concealment can both counter both her survivability and gun problem, being less focused upon and making getting into effective range easier.

 

NO it will become MORE (Edited) for CV! high concealment will warn plane to not getting too close :V

if cleveland got buffed concealment, its AA range should be nerfed 20%~30%

 

Cleveland only needs a small buff - just give her radar and smoke and she'll be fine.

 

RIP Belfast :V

 

 

she still scary as hell when I'm in IJNDD.

that's why when I'm in BB, I'll shoot her first, to protect my team DD.

 

AND HELP THE CV TOO! KILL ALL USN CA FIRST huahahahahahaa

 

Derogatory Comment, Post Edited, User already Sanctioned

~lengxv6

 

Edited by lengxv6

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[LYNMF]
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squishy?! she's a LIGHT CRUISER, of course she's squishy

buff hp?! she has more hp than the pepsi and about the same as NO already

AA is good already, besides, buff to shoot what?! 

radar?! on T6 cruiser?!...riiiiight

torps?! like WG will ever give US cruiser torps

smoke?! you know that will never happen

buff ROF?! she's already a machine gun cruiser, but 5s ROF sounds delicious 

Concealment?! now even pepsi has better concealment than her, hell yes!!

 

perhaps a more rainbower shell arch like lotlanta so that she can be more annoying :trollface:

WG please buff more island for cleveland please 

 

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NO it will become MORE (Edited) for CV! high concealment will warn plane to not getting too close :V

if cleveland got buffed concealment, its AA range should be nerfed 20%~30%

 

 

RIP Belfast :V

 

 

 

AND HELP THE CV TOO! KILL ALL USN CA FIRST huahahahahahaa

 

I'm just talking about surface detection range tho…

 

Quote Updated

~lengxv6

Edited by lengxv6

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Super Tester
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The Cleveland is still scary if you are a DD or CV. Even without an AA/secondaries build, she poses a huge threat to CVs if played right and even more so if built right and played well. Sure, she has become more squishy, but she is still relatively maneuverable so if you can master WASD hax she will be the pinnacle of USN CLs until the DM comes along (but that's the pinnacle of USN CAs). If there is any buff required, just bring her old armor model back. That model bounces shells all day everyday and negates HE damage very well. In my opinion her artillery is fine, and soft stats like concealment are alright as is.

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Yes she can be scary for DDs and CVs in the right situations but it can also easily go the other way. Take for example the Kiev which has HE powerful enough and enough range and speed that a Cleveland struggles. I've witnessed Clevelands being sunk by destroyer guns (not torpedoes), luckily it wasn't me lol. I've also found when shooting at them I do higher damage than you'd expect. CV's are so rare nowadays at T6 that it's hardly worth considering at all, and is part of the reason she has much less to do. I think the IJN DD would find her the most scary and that's understandable.

 

Yes Cleveland is a CL, but she has surprisingly good armour in theory. Thicker than even graf spee at 127mm in the citadel part of the belt which is admittedly small, but so is the citadel which is bellow the waterline. The citadel deck is 51mm again thicker than the armour of the graf spee. The Aoba which is a heavy cruiser has thinner belt and citadel deck armour. Pensacola also has lighter belt armour. The moniker heavy or light only applies to a cruisers guns, heavy mounting ~203mm and light ~152mm, both types have ships with heavy and light armour, connecting the two is incorrect.

 

But citadel damage isn't the problem, although it is significantly easier to hit now. I'd expect a BB to be able to sink her easily. But I don't expect every class of ship to do significant damage to her. You fight a DD, dodge fish and sink it, and the DD manages to take heaps of your HP just with it's guns, not even counting fires. Angling seems to do nothing to AP at all, you might as well go broadside and hope for over pens instead (not recommended :P ). In this way other cruisers like Budyonny and Nurnburg seem to be doing better under similar situations.

 

If she had her survivability from before her guns would be more usable, and if she had longer range guns the lack of survivability wouldn't matter as much. I think concealment is probably a good candidate for a gentle buff, but if that doesn't work either armour or guns will need to be addressed. It's probably also the brutal MM at T6 which makes her suffer so much, as someone mentioned before.

 

The most galling part for me is that they've essentially made a bad ship out of something that was once awesome. It would be ok if she still played well most of the time, but she doesn't  most of the time. The hiding behind islands technique works well when you can do it, but it doesn't always work and it's all she can do now. I'm not a big fan of this play style, it's not real interesting to hide and spam shells everywhere with no risk, and forcing a cruiser like cleveland to do it only adds to the passive meta.

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Wow, I haven't played the Cleveland in a while and boy has it changed. Guns are about the same, but she has become squishy, really squishy. Everyone still focus fires on her as if she's dangerous, but she'd be lucky to hit them in return let alone do any damage. You never used to have to play her like I've heard atlanta players do, but now if you're spotted you're dead, so you better hug those islands and hope you got a map and lineup that means you can do any damage at all. Without carriers playing she has become a worthless ship. I think she needs some love and perhaps a gentle buff of some kind. She is the unfortunate victim of power creep

 

Yeah this sounds about right. I feel very uncomfortable in this ship. It is by a country mile my worst performing cruiser- and based on games played, my worst performing ship. My win rate in this tub is less than 30%. Won't be spending any more time climbing this tech tree. Funny thing is the Atlanta is one of my best performing ships, and the play styles are similar.

All that AA and no planes to shoot down. Maybe if her defensive fire consumable could be swapped out for something else could help swing the balance? As she stands at the moment, she's hardly a match for anything at T6 let alone T7 & T8.

 

 

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torps?! like WG will ever give US cruiser torps

 

I know you were sarcastic (or maybe not) in this, but yeah, it is impossible for post-Omaha US cruisers to have torps because IRL, they decided to never put torps on USN CL/CAs after the Omaha class.

 

she still scary as hell when I'm in IJNDD.

that's why when I'm in BB, I'll shoot her first, to protect my team DD.

 

She's scary as hell on any DD less than 10km from her. Shooting Clevelands with BBs...well, if you're lucky you can delete her, but in my experience, I can survive BB hits when I angle it. Survive as in, "ouch, I thought I was gonna get totally rekt, but somehow I'm still alive!"

 

And as others have pointed out before, Cleveland works well on hugging islands and lobbing HE at enemies. And of course, start fires.

 

Cleveland as it is now, even if the shells would have to go to near-earth orbit, is still good. I would rather take her than the Nurnberg (like the guns, but too squishy) and the Aoba (nice main guns, but too few and not so great AA).

Edited by EJL

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All that AA and no planes to shoot down. Maybe if her defensive fire consumable could be swapped out for something else could help swing the balance? 

 

Well, you can always use hydroacoustic search instead. I think US hydro is better than the Soviet ones.

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I liked Cleveland. I specced AA on her and were the ultimate cure for sky <content removed>.

While it's a support ship, she's deadly in close quarter combat against DD and potatoes in CC (I've met CC players who angled more often now).

Because of the camping meta, rainbow shells are hard to hit targets, even on BB players with half a brain.

 

While I can WASD hack from BB shells, it's not guaranteed as BB players (a few too many for my comfort) too can adapt and predict, or they're just bad aim that I shellbeat myself into it...

 

As for firing behind island, a good idea for my selfish self... but if I want to do it, so does the other guy in my team, hence nobody is doing any spotting... which is a bad idea for the whole team.

I'll do it if the situation present itself and I were at the right time and place, but I'll not actively seek and wait to get myself into that situation.

 

The way I see it, it's because there is progression to grind (captain skills) that are only awarded for successful aggresive plays. As in you need to stay alive until the end of the match and aggressive.

To stay alive, at least until middle of the match requires you to stay behind someone else and be ignored by the enemies while they focus on the suckers in front of you.

 

Thus, camping meta. Which Cleveland isn't very good at, or at least me. In fact, I do better in Aoba.

 

 Insults/Derogatory comments. Post Edited. User Warned

~ADM_dude

Edited by ADM_dude

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