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skywalker999u

Standard battles should be removed for tier 8-10

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As we all know, high tier games are becoming campfest more and more and it is being so <content removed>.


Dev might say it is good for low tiers as the game mechanics is simple enough for new players to familiarize with the game and their ships, which is true.
But this is not suitable for high tiers because they should have known what they should do by the time they reach tier 8-10.


As players progress down the tech tree, they usually gain increased range for their guns and/or torps with increasing alpha damage. The higher tier ships gives players more options to pull away, but they also perform increasingly well in sniping and camping since they can do more damage at farther range.


Standard battle is a game mode that highly promote passive games that the only way to influence the game in earlier stage is to kill enemy ships. (charging to enemy cap early game is pure suicide so not viable at all)
Dev knows this and they did improved the "most innovative lul" map of all time, Ocean, by setting it for a 3-cap domination instead of the old highly <content removed> standard battle. But then why don't they do the same for other maps???


High tier games shouldn't promote the mindset of pure camping and sniping. High tier games should be played with strategies combined with teamwork, optimal utilization of the ships' capabilities and strategic fleet positioning, making calculated sacrifice to fight for objectives instead of just sitting at spawn and snipe brainlessly for 20 mins.


I need to voice this out because I am so sick of these highly <content removed> and passive games. This game has a lot of potential. And I know there are significant amount of people sharing the same thought. I hope dev will see this and make the right move and remove this game mode.

 

TL;DR standard battle is SOOOOO BORING AND <content removed> pls delete

 

Insults/Derogatory comments. Post edited. User Sanctioned

~ADM_dude

Edited by ADM_dude

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Unless there are 3 yamatos or Montana's & 3 Zao's, & a whole heap of other tier 9 10 ships, then they just snipe & invisi fire all the poor tier 7 & 8's plonked in the match, & they win by the number of cannon fodder they just destroyed, so the team is half depleted before they can properly engage. Happens to me nearly all the time now if I play my tier 7 or 8 ships.

 

Ordrazz

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[AUSNZ]
[AUSNZ]
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Id agree with you, except that domination battle modes dont change the play style.

Many a game in tier 8-10 DDs dont/wont cap, BBs snipe from the A/J line and the other team owns all three caps.

 

Sure they may lose ships but in the end they generally win by getting to 1000 points first as the BBs refuse to engage.

 

Its worse on epicenter when DDs decide to torp strike and no one contests any rings as they all hand back.

 

Changing the game mode, will not fix the passive play style.

Having more CVs again (two per team) will make people move together and not yolo around.

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[AUSNZ]
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Removing standard battle won't stop Yamato's from reversing at spawn or the Zao's from hugging map corners or DD's from not moving forward. People simply don't understand that the pace for the first few minutes is slower in a standard battle where you judge where the enemy is, then you push the weak points and have high intensity gameplay from after the 6min mark or so. As it is I prefer Standard battle over domination as you are less reliant on your DD's who often avoid the caps like it has the Plague.

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Beta Tester
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Removing standard battle won't stop Yamato's from reversing at spawn or the Zao's from hugging map corners or DD's from not moving forward. People simply don't understand that the pace for the first few minutes is slower in a standard battle where you judge where the enemy is, then you push the weak points and have high intensity gameplay from after the 6min mark or so. As it is I prefer Standard battle over domination as you are less reliant on your DD's who often avoid the caps like it has the Plague.

 

....or u get the unequal dd mm on domination when the other team has 1 more dd and you get the non stealth dds on your team

 

I also prefer standard battle

Edited by Kapitan_Zur_See_Hoffmann

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Sorry for late replies, got post/reply banned for 3 days for using a c-word to describe how the current extremely passive meta influences the quality of this game

(not even intended to insult anyone, but mods are mods and they judge whatever they want and god knows what triggers them and what doesnt)

 

game modes dosnt change anything, it's the passive player mindset

Yeah but if you put a game mode that promotes a passive mindset then of course everyone goes passive...

 

Removing standard battle won't stop Yamato's from reversing at spawn or the Zao's from hugging map corners or DD's from not moving forward. People simply don't understand that the pace for the first few minutes is slower in a standard battle where you judge where the enemy is, then you push the weak points and have high intensity gameplay from after the 6min mark or so. As it is I prefer Standard battle over domination as you are less reliant on your DD's who often avoid the caps like it has the Plague.


I noticed that you can tell you have to wait for 6 mins in a standard battle until you really start playing the game. If you think that is fun, I must say it is a very interesting definition of fun.
As I have mentioned, I think standard battle should be removed because there is NO other ways to influence the game except by killing ships at most of the time.
That makes it possible for high tier ships with long range and high alpha damage/ high fire chance to camp and snipe at max range AND still win the game, which is exactly the situation for high tiers.
So what I am proposing is to purge the passivity starting from removing this game mode, that doesnt have any other objectives than killing ships, for high tiers,
which the other game modes have multiple capture objectives that can at least counter the effect of killing ships. (well, except epicenter
Maybe standard battle should be 14 mins instead of 20 mins so the team realizes they have less time to camp and make a play faster? lul 
Of course WG can also (and should) change their exp calculation to favor players who/whose planes spots/does damage close to objectives in domination, as Flamu from EU ser once suggested.
But well... WG
 

Id agree with you, except that domination battle modes dont change the play style.

Many a game in tier 8-10 DDs dont/wont cap, BBs snipe from the A/J line and the other team owns all three caps.

 

Sure they may lose ships but in the end they generally win by getting to 1000 points first as the BBs refuse to engage.

 

Its worse on epicenter when DDs decide to torp strike and no one contests any rings as they all hand back.

 

Changing the game mode, will not fix the passive play style.

Having more CVs again (two per team) will make people move together and not yolo around.

Epica... i mean, epicenter is not a good game mode for high tier overall. the choice of map for epicenter is crap. Trident is fine tho. Tears of Cruisers is, well, crap for cruisers.
... which brings up the topic of all those cruiser-hostile high tier maps... Okinawa, Mountain Range aka cruiser shooting gallery, Tears of Cruisers (Desert), Atlantic, and ofc Ocean the most innovative map design of all time.
Lack cruiser support = rekt DD/BB and vice versa. After all team work is the most important thing for this game.

Maybe 2CV can be viable, but then how is WG going to balance 2CV in 1 team? (which they still havent balanced 1CV vs 1CV well enough at all)
What if MM put 2 strike spec against 2 normal/air superiority spec? The team is prolly gonna get rekt fast without CV fighter support.
Tho that is not strictly the focus of this discussion.... but well, it is kinda related to ways to resolve the passivity.
One thing is sure that this game has many issues left unresolved and WG keeps pushing out new ship lines without fixing issues like CV balance, ship class balance (KM DDs cry in the background) and passive meta in the community (globally).
It is still fixable if all players have some kind of connection to the community. But not all players knows how to position their ships in a map optimally and how to react to enemy engagement correctly... let alone team play.
The situation is kinda... disturbing.

 

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OFC tier 8-10 have a lot of balance issues.

Have been long like that until we got tier 7 OP ships, namely Sims, Belfast, Saipan, Flint.

Now we getting more OP premium ships like Black, or Missouri at tier 9.

The ship statistic from tier 9 to 10 has a huge leap of armor, hp, and power.

Unless you bring a tier 10 for yourself. That's the solution.

Like when i used Iowa, how the hell i could win against Yamato, and full HP in that.

79k HP vs 97k, 16 inch vs 18, free lol pen armor vs invicible fortress.

War is a fear game, it is not like that you will face Yamato, but considering her great range etc. some consideration will be put upon it.

Controlling fear is difficult to some people, specially with conservatives.

 

I know you want to point to the game mode, or those passive players.

But i also want to point to those ships they're using.

And the great performance leap from tier 8 to 9, 9 to 10.

For example of tier 8 to 9 is North Orleans vs Baltimore.

Baltimore got better RoF, armor, and heal while NO doesn't.

The ships formation at those tier (7-10) is highly imbalanced.

 

DD get spotted and die easily by anything, form AP, HE, torp, anything can kill DD easily. Thanks to the introduction of radar.

BB reckt with a slight angle thanks to the great range of enemy BB, or HE to death by those things with IFHE skill.

Cruisers deleted in a single salvo, thanks to the more gun those BB have at high tier.

CV lost many planes thanks to more powerful AA cluster.

These all burned to the brain of players.

 

IMO it is not the fault of the game mode. It is the same mode as the one at lower tier.

More to the ship performance spike as the tier goes up, player behavior, and distribution of OP ships.

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[AE]
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Look, a lot of people hate epicentre and domination modes. There is a good argument to be made for letting people play the way they are comfortable.

Think about yourself. When you were starting or not quite confident, and some other guy (already dead most times, but sometimes live teammates) demands that you

charge in, or keeps at you to do it another way..... What happens?

You play a different way and die quicker than if you played your way.

If you don't like the campy meta then play tanks, average battle time 3-5 minutes.

Ships was made to appeal to a more slow and laid back set of players.

Most importantly, WG made DDs far more powerful than they were in real life. In real life DDs that charged rarely got close enough

to do any damage. IT was suicide. So really, maybe inadvertently, WG made the meta campy.

Of note, both the RDF skill, and the new skill system stops MOST DDs from being able to hide as easily, or invisi-fire.

I don't believe that that was some inadvertent mistake on WG part. WG appears to be doing its best to make the game easier for BBs.

Good on them. No need to change the modes. Bastion was awful. Domination and epicentre are both unpleasant. To me. Maybe not to you. The problem with both WoT and WoWs is it brings out fascist thinking amongst players - ban this, nerf that. etc. If a certain ship owns yours, buy it or research it, don't demand the other one get nerfed. IF a certain mode is unpleasant to you, allow others to like it.

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[AUSNZ]
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I noticed that you can tell you have to wait for 6 mins in a standard battle until you really start playing the game. If you think that is fun, I must say it is a very interesting definition of fun.

 

If you want a game that has instant gratification there is plenty of them around, as it is I personally enjoy the buildup of a standard battle and do find it fun and engaging, but each to his own.

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[LNA]
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WG appears to be doing its best to make the game easier for BB 

 

Yeah as if BB were in need of it , the core problem and salt has always been with BB , games flooded with high and mighty scrubs wanting to show their OPness with a big bad ship that dont learn to cooperate and mess up the game into a camp snipe retreat when shot at play.

BB is too popular that it makes CA ,DD life complete hell and unbalanced. Team having more than 4-5 BBs are common to say the least

I dont want BB that play them for the sake of ez show off , i want a BB that cooperate and know where he stand in his team.

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