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Gorbon_Rubsay

Alternative suggestion for new captain skill table

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So, just been on the PT server and while the new captain skills are a good direction, as suspected, many of them are either useless or increadibly OP (Cat fighter, RDF). Further more, they don't solve the problem that everyone will still use the same builds for the same class of ships.

So, instead of having another RDF is this or that thread.... I had a go a making my own Skill Table. My principles were as follows:

1. There should be no ultimate build for a certain ship class - every build should involve choices and sacrifices

2. There should be no skill that is so OP (like CE) that any class or line of ship must have it to be competetive

3. There should be no skills that no one will choose 

Here it is:

g2ajwfG.jpg

White: As is Yellow: Balanced Red: Nerfed Blue: New

 

Notes:

- Click on the image if you think you are going to go blind

- Nerfed all the "must have skills" - please consider how it will affect the game overall rather than your seal clubbing (CE Kamikaze R)

-Didn't think too hard or do calculations on % amounts these would need to be adjusted. General concept is more important

- Made no suggestions for carrier because I've only every played something like 3 games.... someone with more experience should make suggestions

- 40% Det chance % doesn't mean a 40% chance of detonation on penetration, it means that if detonation chance was 2% it goes to 2.8%. This will have to work independently of flags. IE if flag gives if det chance is 2% and flag gives you -100% but your build gives you +100% than you will have 2%

-Combined AA + secondary skills so all skills are useful whether there is a carrier in game or not

-

 

Please try to make some build examples - it think it is quite challenging and requires a bit of thought.

Look forward to comments.

 

* Basic principle stolen from Retia's similar post. Many skill ideas copied from elsewhere on this forum.*

Edited by Gorbon_Rubsay

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Your skill suggestion is very good and thanks for your effort into trying to improve the game.
However i the way i see it you have build a few easily OP skill and some are not adequate (mostly tier 1):

SH AP rounds might be very powerful , +10% pen mean that it can more or less pen the bow of a few more ship in the game and will break the will of BB to go up and brawl since they dont want to get penned bow on
Silent running being completely immune to search consumables are also very troubling , high tier dd has detection range as low as below 6km , if they dont fire this skill will let them invinsible for the rest of the game with no way of knowing where they might be. The suggestion is that it reduce the aquired detection when such consumables are used ( 9km with radar become something like 7 or 6 ).This skill will be OP if there is a typhoon going on

Low flash powder is another potential OP skill : you really dont want a Zao to get his hand on this skill , so is a RN cruiser. My suggestion is that tone it down based on tiers and class.
Also skill penalty should be toned down to around -5% speed reduction , some skill will make a ship move like a snail which is not good as sailing around the map takes all ready too much time.Increased chance of detonation also needed to be toned down a bit , cause no one want to experience "interesting and highly dynamic gameplay".
Long range catapult FT could use a buff of improved durability and damage in exchange for reduced airborne time making it far more useful in deterring air strikes than what you suggest which is to negate torps ( IJN right now is very weak cause their main armanent - torps depend largely on RNG to success)
 

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Beta Tester
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I won't comment on specifics (too much to process!), but I've always thought that specialising a captain should result in trade-offs elsewhere. A highly focused build should be less flexible, for example.

 

Nice work. I'd defintely like to see some of your ideas implemented.

Edited by Unraveler

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 Additional Catapult Fighter/Spotter isn't OP/UP, it's just ok,it can still spot Aircraft and stuff but the speed however is kinda sad somehow, the catapult fighters will give you a delay if for 3 minutes again if its destroyed. Range is kinda meh, the speed is fine, but Single Catapult Fighter? i refuse

On all of the rest in this skill tree are good and i like it, looking forward for more, except the Catapult fighter...

EDIT: Two catapult fighters can survive you from a 4 squadron of TBs and BDs, and it can hold you against fighters for a little time 

Edited by BIGCOREMKP0I

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Thanks for the comments Legionary.

Looking at your suggestions:

Super heavy AP, my intention was to reduce bow on tactics and force closer ranges.  Thinking of higher tiers - I think you are right 10% range reduction for a 20KM BB or 18KM cruiser is really nothing. Maybe 10% Tier I-V,  20% VI-X  would be more appropriate - that would bring a 20KM BB tio 16KM - a fair trade.   I think this Skill would go well with some of the survivability or secondary build skills to make a short range monster. 

For instance a brawling build on the Bismark might look like:

1. Jack of all trades

2.  Basic Fire Training + Expert Marksman

3. Advanced Fire Training + All hatches sealed

4. Manual AA+ 2ndaries

Aside from the OP secondaries it has now, it would have very low chance of catching fire/flooding + 16" equivalent penetration.

On the downside it would only have 17km range, 10% less main armament DPM and  would be running at 29 knots (still very fast).

 

Alternatively it could be built as a tank

1. Jack of all trades

2. Basics of survivability, 

3. All hatches sealed, Super intendent 

4. Survivability Expert, High Alert

2. Vigilance

It would have 70,900 HP (almost same as the Tier IX), with premium repair party, 5 repairs with a 60 second cooldown (down from 120), low chance of fire + flooding + shorter durations.

On the downside it would have -10DPM +  no offensive skills. Even with -14% speed it would still run at 27knots - as fast as a North Carolina which is why 7% speed penalties seem fine to me.

 

Both would be great builds achieving WGs goal of having variation within the same ship. Even with the new captain skill tree - I think there are 'ultimate builds' for each ship limiting choice.

Edited by Gorbon_Rubsay

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On the downside it would have -10DPM +  no offensive skills. Even with -14% speed it would still run at 27knots - as fast as a North Carolina which is why 7% speed penalties seem fine to me.

 

It is not fine if you take into account gunboat dd , gunboat with -14% speed is as good as dead since 1 of them is not that fast , hitting 27knots as an iowa or NC is not so serious , however it will be serious detriment to dd who relies on their speed and bumped up survivability through captain skill to survive.

You really dont want to be in a dd that gets 32 or 33 knots seriously.

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It is not fine if you take into account gunboat dd , gunboat with -14% speed is as good as dead since 1 of them is not that fast , hitting 27knots as an iowa or NC is not so serious , however it will be serious detriment to dd who relies on their speed and bumped up survivability through captain skill to survive.

You really dont want to be in a dd that gets 32 or 33 knots seriously.

 Shiratsuyu/Akizuki says HI! I do just fine at 33 knots, but yes, the idea was to make it difficult to overload on certain skills. For example I feel that superintendent is ultra powerful on a destroyer with premium smoke and as such 2~3 knots is a fair compromise to make - remember that this skill gives you an additional speed boost too which means that in most combat situations you will be running your original speed.

You mentioned that "running silent could be very OP in some of the stealthier destroyers (Kagero/Yugamo) - hence the very large speed penalty. In other words, if you chose this skill - you would have to be VERY careful not to get caught  (you would also have no excuse for getting caught) since there is no escape if you are spotted.  It becomes an very high risk and high reward skill making for interesting builds.

Alternatively you could "Run light" and give up a consumable reload.  "Run light" + Speed boost would return you to your original speed.

 

 

Edited by Gorbon_Rubsay

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ill - you would have to be VERY careful not to get caught  (you would also have no excuse for getting caught) since there is no escape if you are spotted.  It becomes an very high risk and high reward skill making for interesting builds.

 

 

I feels it fine if your point is like that , but i feels that it is very awkward for a dd to be slower than some faster CA/CL. Also a dd that nearly impossible to caught will cause lots of frustration (CA/CL cant do their job of flushing you out without getting dangerously close, F3 torps are to be feared) and on some larger map although you cant get anywhere you will also be near impossible to be outplayed into a 1 v 1 situation.

I have many a time unable to catch a dd simply because i dont have hydro or radar and he keep spamming torp without firing his gun. It will be extremely disatrous to bb if dd happen to be alive at the near end of battle where bb will have no possible way of finding you

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