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TheLastMinotaurPC

Returning Player. Thoughts on the changes to CVs up to now.

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Alpha Tester
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151 battles

PRE-WORD: This is some thoughts and OPINIONS on current CVs. I'd really like to hear your opinions on CVs too. I'm not whining, just pointing out some opinions and with my CV experience hope that you also see these problems. The aim of this thread is to find a way to fix CVs. Not nerf this, buff this.... (unless it's really the ideal fix)

 

I've always enjoyed playing CVs since alpha, unlocking the essex twice, once in alpha and another time during beta. I then grinded up to the tier 7 IJN CV and tier 9 USN carrier after release (got to get more silver to purchase.)

 

I've slowly watched the Cvs be hit with what some could call nerfs. I of course adapted to them grudgingly. After a few months i quit as the game was becoming stale. However after returning and getting back to CVs, i have 1 thought that has stuck in my head.

 

High tier CVs are garbage.

 

Has AA been buffed since i was gone? I constantly as a tier 7 IJN lose 1-3 planes attacking a tier 6 BB such as a solo fuso. Every class except BBs (i think) now has the I win AA module, even CVs.

 

The controls are clunky and the 100ms+ delay doesn't help. Can i even hotbind squadrons like in most RTS games? e.g press 2 to select all my bombers. Talking about bombers.....They are utter trash. On a standstill bb i got 2 hits for 3k dmg only...... I even tried manual and although the whole ship was covered it still was 2/4 hits with minimal damage.

 

Torps aren't that much better. Due to the low damage you are lucky to do more than 5k per hit on a Battleship. Countless times I've had a sailing straight BB eat 4 of my torpedoes and only lose 1/3 hp, which he soon repairs.

 

Let alone destroyers and cruisers. Cruisers well are cruisers..... I understand they are anti air, however i dont understand why they are essentially immune high tiers due to surplus AA guns and their annoying ability, which is essentially an unavoidable forcefield. Earlier i was trying to bomb the last 1/4 hp alanta cruiser and my tier 7 planes couldn't even get into drop range. Even off screen the range and damage was insane. My planes were kms away, yet they started falling out of the sky like flies.

 

Destroyers I see as being good vs torp bombers ok but even so the drop pattern is just stupid on IJN planes especially. A battleship can slip past the torpedoes. Dive bombers are just worthless. Crap accuracy with low damage.

 

Does anyone remember the combat triangle image that was posted when the game was released? BB>CLs>DDs>BBs with CVs being in the middle. Counterable by all and vice versa. In their current state CVs are horrid against all but BBs, but even then..... Since BBs are the weakest vs torp I'm not supprised they hate CVs so much.

 

Over CVs need a serious rework.

 

They

 

1. Don't destroy ships as they were intended. (They are suppose to be force multiplyers). Unless the enemy has a bad CV and no AA support then the CV is useless. They have too many hard counters.

 

2. Are broken in low tiers as low tiers don't have AA. Hate against CVs is instilled.

 

3. The USN loadouts are plane dumb. Bring back the old loadouts. Cv v Cv fights shouldn't be decided because of a loadout. Let players use different tactics with strengths and weakneses.

 

4. The UI is clunky, unresponsive and hard to understand at times.

 

5. AA Is horrendous. AA is everywhere on every darn ship. AA should be a team asset meaning a lone AA BB will be useless vs a squad of planes but grouped AA will get multiplied damage and so on. CLs should not be solo AA boats, they aready have a hard counter consumable. (And nownother ships have it)

 

6. Last but not least, CV gameplay is unrewarding, Shooting planes barely gives xp, and despite doing well in a match with high damage and planes shot down you will never hit top place in xp 90% of the time.

 

Cvs i have always though should be as snipers like in other games. You hit lone and/or weakened targets. You deal high damage and can change the tides, however you are vulnerable to everything once spotted and useless solo vs teamwork. However in WoWs CVs are snipers that get hard countered and that don't even have that much influence on the game. Your team if bad is going to lose either way and if your team is good you will win. I've had games where the enemy CV is inactive, yet due to enemys having exorbitant amounts of AA i had little impact on the game. If a BB is just NEAR a CL or another BB, then your planes are toast.

 

As i see it CVs need a rework, else dare i say it be removed. Currently as they stand they don't achieve what they were intended to do.

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Member
203 posts
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This loop will never ends.

Live die repeat. Live die repeat. Spawn die. Spawn Die.  Just like these follow up threads.

 

Stay at low tiers then CV sure have fun looking down on others and kill everything in their path.

Edited by MikuChrome

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Super Tester
341 posts
2,790 battles

Wholeheartedly agree. However I wouldn't be too optimistic. CVs can't be balanced by WG because even they do not know how to balance the class (look at the 33% ammo buff to USN). Not to mention a UI improvement won't fix any of the balance issues with CVs. There has been massive powercreep with AA power and every class except BB having defensive fire.

 

And while people may complain "oh another CV thread", don't pay them any-mind OP. The fact that there are so many CV threads stating the problem shows the extent of the problem.

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Super Tester
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The controls are clunky and the 100ms+ delay doesn't help. Can i even hotbind squadrons like in most RTS games? e.g press 2 to select all my bombers. Talking about bombers.....They are utter trash. On a standstill bb i got 2 hits for 3k dmg only...... I even tried manual and although the whole ship was covered it still was 2/4 hits with minimal damage.

 

CV interface is due for a rework in the new year (as confirmed by a Dev Q&A), most likely due to drop before or with the addition of the RN CV line.

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Video Contributor
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I dont't know, I like to bomb Des Moines with DB IJN and I don't care DM is powerful AA or full AA (max I bomb DM 10 shots and 14k damage 6 AA guns are destroyed)

What CV wants to buff?

My opinion

Buff HP of B5N2 up to 1250 

Buff Independence's hanger up to 40 (add more TB and DB)

Add TB tier 7 so B5N2(tier 6) can't stand in tier 9 in the same time Ranger has TB tier 7

Ranger and Lexington need to change 0/1/3 to 1/1/2 so they can protect friendlies

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I think CV needs another nerf.

While far less powerful than a year ago, they are still more powerful than a regular surface ship.

I think CVs need a nerf.

But in return, CVs need to be far easier and more fun to play, require far less APM, and be rewarding.

Make them not special ships but normal ships with special controls.

And the problem with the current CV is that if a team has unicum CV and the other has a meh CV, GGWP.

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[LNA]
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But in return, CVs need to be far easier and more fun to play, require far less APM, and be rewarding.

 

Make them not special ships but normal ships with special controls.

 

And the problem with the current CV is that if a team has unicum CV and the other has a meh CV, GGWP.

 

I honestly think you are asking for too much. Toning down the scale of work needed in a CV match is not a fun option especially for USN carriers who already have a lower number of squads to keep tab on. The high apm requirement is there because IJN squads would be devastating if it has lower APM and would have far easier time outclassing its USN counterpart. I advocated for UI improvements so that you can better command squad , but the new UI should also have the same APM specs so as to balance out the flexibility of IJN squadrons

I think carrier being powerful is a right since you will at most get 2 in a match and there will be always your counterpart on the otherside with the mirror MM. I know getting bombed by a carrier is anything but fun but carrier needs far more work for a single damaging volley than anyother class who only has to aim and shoot.

Being outplayed is one thing that is needed in the game , anyother unicums will do the same to the other team regardless of what they are helming in the game. Pray have you ever meet unicum statpadder division that will rekt the other team (2x Montana + Gearing unicum = ggwp). Unicum in cv just stand out more because they will appear where they are needed.

P/s: USN air superiority is the most boring and relaxing load out since it is only left click , strafe auto drop and rearm. You might be most suited for it as it has VERY low APM requirement and you will still contribute to your team ( Though it will not shut down all strikes connecting your team )

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[LNA]
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AA is indeed stronk on high tier but only because all individual ships has a ridiculous amount of it ( it gets completely out of hand if in the roster there is 3-4 Aegis AA defence ship which is rather common). Well why is it stronk ? because if you dont shoot it down , 1 strike package has enough power to down 1 ship via DoT or direct alpha.

Well , high tier carriers have enough replacement for the match so it should not affect their contribution. However , the long downtime between strike and the dead squadron penalties really eats into what they can do for their team in a match since a match last for 20 minutes at best and there we have the problem : Stronk AA currently severely limit carrier potential and immidiate contribution to a match to the point where they will be rather easy to be outdamaged. Infact carriers in high tier deal much less damage on average than lower tier. They still delete ships , but instead of going after healthy targets they are more about vulturing ships that has already been crap on or are nearly dead.

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[BRU]
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Sigh, another CV rant thread, please deal with it. Higher CV battles serves as the last pinnacle to get the last Tier 10 CV's. Stronger AA defenses doesn't bother me at all, I once 1 shot a Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, Tirpitz in my Taiho despite having moderate-good AA defenses, and almost 1 shot an NC even having more powerful AA than my other examples. Again, please deal with the current meta and you yourself will adapt not WG.

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Super Tester
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Sigh, another CV rant thread, please deal with it. Higher CV battles serves as the last pinnacle to get the last Tier 10 CV's. Stronger AA defenses doesn't bother me at all, I once 1 shot a Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, Tirpitz in my Taiho despite having moderate-good AA defenses, and almost 1 shot an NC even having more powerful AA than my other examples. Again, please deal with the current meta and you yourself will adapt not WG.

 

Well its hard to accept for people with CV Master Race mentality.

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Super Tester
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Well its hard to accept for people with CV Master Race mentality.

 

Im kind of fine with CVs if they punish mistakes, and to be fair, high tier CVs can give equal tier BBs a good run for their money if the BB is caught solo.

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The current CV play seems fine for now in random battles. The reworked CV play forces you to play with some tactics in mind. And to be fair, i think the upgraded AA gives the other players in the game a chance to play a longer match rather then die to first blood in the first strike wave. So to help you with some of my humble opinion to your comments:

 

1) The CVs now punishes solo/careless players. And that frequently happens in random battles. Only in a handful of rare games do i have enemy ships all in groups with a CA in the centre where i have no way to do meaningful damage. The hard counters are CA and Defensive fire, which you can bait them to use it.

 

2) AA is a problem in low tiers, but its kinda offset by the slower plane speed. So that means lesser strikes in a game. Plus the plane reserves are small.

 

3) The 013 Lex was the first time i tried strike loadout and at the start it was horrible. But that is where i really start to improve on my CV game play as it forces you to learn. And even if the enemy is using a fighter loadout, you will still have a higher chance of winning as you have more damage output.

 

4) the UI has some quirks but is still playable once you understand eg selecting a depleted squad selects your ships etc. The thing i do NOT avocade the dev to put is plane groupings under a hotkey. By doing so, you will make the USN CVs totally useless with the reduced Apm requirements of IJN CV

 

5) AA is sort of a team asset thingy. You stick 2 BBs close and planes die faster. For solo targets with high AA, you can always send in your bombers first to hit and burn to kill AA modules. Once repaired, send in your torp planes and hope for a flooding. (Aim the ship bow/stern) and send i groups of 2 at least to survive strong AA.

 

6) This part i do agree, that the exp payout vs the base damage done is not worthwhile. But then again, i enjoy the CV grind, so getting to the next tier is ok for me. Just try to free xp the fighters and the loadout first if possible.

 

Cvs have the biggest influence in the game in terms of damage and also team contribution. Even if you cant hit enemy ships, you can still fly your torp planes by the ship side and either force them.to turn and expose their broadside or make the CA stay close to the BB, making them targets for your teammates if they close, or if the BB is sniping, then the CA is not shooting at the enemy by staying close to the BB. Plus you get to pick who dies first regardless of distance.

The psychological aspect is endless.

 

Ok, this is getting too long... lol.

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just got killed by CV

 

in kongo, go together with team, got burn with 3 stack fire no choice but to use dam-con, TB show up and torp me... full duration of flood.... sunk helplessly...

Damn those CV

if I can, I would deleted it from game...

 

T_T

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just got killed by CV

 

in kongo, go together with team, got burn with 3 stack fire no choice but to use dam-con, TB show up and torp me... full duration of flood.... sunk helplessly...

Damn those CV

if I can, I would deleted it from game...

 

T_T

 

And they still say they need buffs xD........

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just got killed by CV

 

in kongo, go together with team, got burn with 3 stack fire no choice but to use dam-con, TB show up and torp me... full duration of flood.... sunk helplessly...

Damn those CV

if I can, I would deleted it from game...

 

T_T

 

RIP. Worst AA ship fighting planes xD
Edited by silenthunter19944

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Langley - excellent ships but too many sealclubbers and people who go back to low tiers because high tier is unplayable

Bogue - SLOW + Sealclubbers = RIP Zuiho

Independenence - Defensive fire + tier 8 MM = near unplayable

Ranger = Chance to get better win rate - excellent even with stock hull I just checked the statistics on ranger and it appears the ship has the worst WR in the game so I take back what I said

Lexington (apparently the ship model is actually saratoga which makes sense since lexington was an early casualty (coral sea is pretty early given how US entry in WW2 was 1941) - I don't have lex but the lexington class are beautiful (source - 1/700 saratoga).

Essex - don't have

Midway - don't have

 

All US strike load outs need a fighter squad so that other players stop whining " NOOB CV WHERE IS YOUR FIGHTER" (bad gammar intended)

Edited by BravaZulu296

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