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Ensign_Brendoonigan

Flat top (CV) help

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Super Tester
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Hi guys

 

I've taken the big leap and am stearing back into the Abyss, that's right it's time for me to actually look at CV's again and I wanted to use the same thread for Questions i'll have for them. I'm also going to talk about what experiences I've encountered. This will be both the good and the bad.

 

So here's my history on them. I have a tier 4 Hosho rusting away which I learned to play in co-op and random some time ago, as well as a Langley which was prodominantly in co-op (sold but rebought back 2 days ago as i didn't really enjoy it). Anyway I now also have both the Bogue and the Zuiho now and it's as good a place as any to start the learning curve.

 

I have no problem with Cv's in game, yes it sucks when they have a far superior one on the opfor to ours, but then it also sucks when they have a L15 captain on a DD basically killing off all your ships thrpough torps or invisy firing, or a BB triple citadelling you or even a citadel through your front. It's all swings and roundabouts and for every time I've faced a better team I'm sure I've had just as many good team.

 

So lets look at them stock. From what I can see a stock CV is almost unplayable. Unlike any other ship class where you can still float around with your team offering support, a CV has no such luxury, you effectively send your fighters as target practice to the opfor's fighters and don't forget that unlike ships which can keep firing your guns a CV has a small finite amount of them at low tiers. I ended up free xping the Bogue's fighters just to become competitive in co-op! Even in co-op the opfor has fully upgraded CV's....   I would hate to think what it would be like coming across a CV on the opfor team with an AS loadout in random. 

 

My current loadout has just 1/1/0 on my Bogue, is this the best or should I upgrade to a different loadout? In co-op my Bogue has only fought 2/0/1, so straight away my aircraft in on the back foot. I've yet to lauch the Zuiho as this is happening later today but any suggestions on the upgrade paths, skills etc for both would be appreciated.

 

Captain skills: As a tier 1 skill is it worth getting rear gunner or is it basics of surviability?

 

Should I keep both the Langley and Hosho to continue practicing on or should I move the captains up to tier 5?

 

Ensign

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For skills:

Tier 1: BoS should be your top pick but if you want to stay in low tiers, you can also choose RGE

Tier 2: Torpedo Reload would be the best pick, but if you like playing fighter setups in US carriers, you can choose Fire Prevention alternatively.

Tier 3: You have a lot of choices here, but the skill choice will vary depending on the carrier you have or the playstyle you want. Mostly for Japanese carriers, you'll want to pick Torpedo Boost as 35kn aren't fast enough to cross drop destroyers. If you want to stay on low tiers, you might want DFE but in my personal experience, it doesn't do much, and if you plan on getting high tier carriers DFE is useless. You might also want to take Vigilance if you like playing AS loadouts a lot. 

Tier 4: Aircraft Servicing Expert. No other choices regardless of tier or nation.

Tier 5: Air Superiority. Again, no other choices, and as you climb up the tiers (say tier VII or Tier VIII) you will see the importance of having AS for your CO. It's also mandatory to have AS once you reach tier IX-X so it's best to use doubloons to retrain COs when switching carriers.

 

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Use 1/1/0 for Bogue if you are grinding, and 2/0/1 for farming plane kills. 0/1/2 is way too unstable esp. with the small hangar size of Bogue - you cannot estimate your relative performance with that loadout which is a very bad thing in CV play. Keep Langley because it's OP for its tier but Hosho can be safely sold.

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[BRU]
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For the Bogue, if you want balance for offense and defense, use 1-1-0, if you want to snipe enemy CV, and if you have plans to go practice for strike Lexington(0-1-3), go for 0-1-2.

Captain Skills:

Tier1: BoS for reduced fire duration, BFT for additional AA defense since Bogue has powerful AA, you can skip RGE if you want

Tier2: Torpedo Reload Expert for faster reload of your TB or Fire prevention for less fire chance at you.

Tier3: Torpedo Acceleration for faster torp speed at the cost of range(no choice), or Dogfighting expert(optional) because Zuiho's FT are Tier6 so you have +10% firepower of your FT's.

Tier4: AFT for increase AA range and mix with BFT, you can fend enemy CV attacks, or Aircraft Servicing expert for +5% HP of planes and -10% reload of planes

Tier5: Air superiority for additional FT from 6 to 7 FT.(No choice).

For Zuiho, 1-2-1 is the best loadout for sniping enemy CV or 1 shot kill to enemy ships.

Captain skills:

Tier1: BoS

Tier2: Torpedo Reload Expert

Tier3: Torpedo Acceleration

Tier4: Aircraft Service Expert

Tier5: Air Superiority

Overall, as a CV player, you need map awareness, observe enemy CV plane movements especially 2-0-1 Bogue, and try your best to outsmart enemy CV's. The rule of CV battles is the first to dominate the airspace, has the advantage.

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Super Tester
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Keep using 110 Bogue. It will offer good practice on TB drops and fighter usage.

 

201 and 012 are too inconsistent to carry games for obvious reasons.

 

For captain skills, I would recommend the following if you are advancing up the tiers:

 

BoS -> TAE -> TA -> ASE -> AS. If keeping the Langley, swap BoS for ERG. If keeping Bogue, I advise using BFT.

 

The Langley and Hosho are good trainers (clubbers) in their own right but your gains will be low.

 

Lastly, stock CVs are a big no-no ESPECIALLY USN. Not only do their aircraft suffer, the stock hull (except Lexington) carries less planes. You do NOT want that. CVs are a kind of 1v1 engagement and you will want every edge you can get.

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Beta Tester
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110 or 201 will work. Never use strike USN CV players, please for the love of god.  Having a strike loadout in your team means total Fkng nightmare for your DD players. Please don't recommend the usage of strike loadout on USN CVs. Please have some mercy specially if you're not good CV captain.
 

 

 Never capped a single base, all of us DDs in the team scouted to oblivion. an example of noob low IQ 38% WR Ranger Captain, don't imitate.

[content removed]

 

Naming and shaming. Post edited, user already sanctioned.

 

~amade

Edited by amade

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[LNA]
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110 or 201 will work. Never use strike USN CV players, please for the love of god.  Having a strike loadout in your team means total Fkng nightmare for your DD players. Please don't recommend the usage of strike loadout on USN CVs. Please have some mercy specially if you're not good CV captain.

 

lol , if you never taste defeat how will you ever become gud ? Learning to use strike is the way to go from being a noob to become a pro of using US CV. Every carrier starting from Ranger will nest you much better reward and easier win if you use strike. Bouge can be where you learn to use strike as Zuiho will only have 1 FT and learning the dance there is much easier where you dont have to deal with bloody high AA . The small hangar size also compels you to learn not to sacrifiece stuff needlessly xD. Thats my 2 cents , if you get it easy at tier V you will taste salt at higher tier

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Beta Tester
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It doesn't work that way, unless you send your planes from separate vectors to draw the fighters away from the CV the fighters will shoot down your planes with impunity

 

Edited by Epicurus_

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Beta Tester
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lol , if you never taste defeat how will you ever become gud ? Learning to use strike is the way to go from being a noob to become a pro of using US CV. Every carrier starting from Ranger will nest you much better reward and easier win if you use strike. Bouge can be where you learn to use strike as Zuiho will only have 1 FT and learning the dance there is much easier where you dont have to deal with bloody high AA . The small hangar size also compels you to learn not to sacrifiece stuff needlessly xD. Thats my 2 cents , if you get it easy at tier V you will taste salt at higher tier

 

I've been repeating myself since ever: the purpose of strike is to snipe enemy CV. They [content removed] this meta by introducing DFAA on CVs. What you want if you are in a strike CV is to destroy the enemy CV ASAP, because you can't really provide air cover with all the fighters your enemy have, you can't impose aerial superiority; you need to destroy him so you can provide air cover once and for all. If a strike USN CV can't do that, or at least make the opposing CV in a defensive stance (putting all his figthers close to his CV), then he failed his objective. Now, with CV sniping very uneconomical with CV DFAA, it's lose its purpose and totally useless compared to a fighter or balance setup. There is no more excuse of using strike USN rather than be a selfish prick statpadding his damage stat.

 

Profanity. Post edited, user sanctioned.

 

~amade

Edited by amade

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Yep, never use strike. The only time it works is if your enemy cv also does strike. It might also work if you are unicum, but I dare say any average or better player would still either destroy all your planes or render them useless as you attempt to bait them into friendly aa. The only time you should use strike is in co op. 

Just came from a battle with a strike bogue. 0 dmg, 0 planes shot down, I honestly don't even know if he stayed in the battle. Enemy had AS bogue and our cv immediately lost two squads while landing his survivor and than was useless as enemy cv parked his fighters near him.

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[LNA]
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Guys you are underestimating the power of a close up 6 tight torps can do , aimed well that single volley will take a ship out of the fight for quite sometime. And really we need to stop equate strike setup = snipe , strike US cv deal huge amount of damage and can do so under AA fire to certain extent which is something IJN lack , you can stack fire with stronger bombs and torp even with a floatplane tailing you and the spread is still easier to aim under fire than an IJN spread. Sure my team get no fighter cover but currently do you guys even need that , at high tier AA become more and more efficient as a deterrent and many dont even need fighter cover at all. Not to mention every BB and CA/CL run AA specced setup even when CV is not a popular class.

Btw , waited an hour to get a match with stock Essex to say the least ....

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I question if you can reliably make a strike set up work against anything except an afk opponent or maybe one that plays similar to a bot. Two more strike cvs today, independence this time. You know how much damage combined they did? 0. 

A strike set up is a liability to the team. I am sure you have good games here and there. I am certain though that your team would quite like having some cover and even spotting done by you. 

Why ask for advice if you are going to ignore what everyone is telling you? I am not sure if anyone in this thread (bar you) has advocated going for strike?

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Super Tester
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I question if you can reliably make a strike set up work against anything except an afk opponent or maybe one that plays similar to a bot. Two more strike cvs today, independence this time. You know how much damage combined they did? 0. 

A strike set up is a liability to the team. I am sure you have good games here and there. I am certain though that your team would quite like having some cover and even spotting done by you. 

Why ask for advice if you are going to ignore what everyone is telling you? I am not sure if anyone in this thread (bar you) has advocated going for strike?

 

Bad players do not justify a loadout. I have seen players go strike and deletes 3-4 key ships quickly which is a huge contribution. Everyone should be able to handle Airstrikes to some extent by their own, not always depending on the CV.

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This is a ever persistent problem where people just blame CVs. You can't just rely on random people every game with a CV to be protecting you, just like you also cant rely on DDs every match to be in front you helping u to spot and cap. At the end of the day, what determines a more successful CV is the amount of damage he dealt compared to the enemy CV.

 

CVs help in a way that is invisible to you. For example, a enemy AS cv has to make a decision whether he has to spot a DD, or to come chase my bombers on the other side. And at the end of the day, a CV that contributes more damage helps to oush his team closer to a win.

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[LNA]
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I question if you can reliably make a strike set up work against anything except an afk opponent or maybe one that plays similar to a bot. Two more strike cvs today, independence this time. You know how much damage combined they did? 0. 

A strike set up is a liability to the team. I am sure you have good games here and there. I am certain though that your team would quite like having some cover and even spotting done by you. 

Why ask for advice if you are going to ignore what everyone is telling you? I am not sure if anyone in this thread (bar you) has advocated going for strike?

Part1 : I am against it simply because through trial and error i have make it to work ( look at my carrier stats - all are made with strike load out bar Bouge because that is the ship when i was trying between AS and Strike ). I will say this : not everyone can make a class work and some will simply not suited for it. I WIN FAR MORE GAME DOING DAMAGE DIRECTLY TO KEY TARGETS THAN PROTECTING A DAMAGE DEALER I DO NOT KNOW AND I CANT GUESS HIS INTENTION ( BB WILL TURN BACK UNDER FIRE EVEN IF THEY HAVE AIR COVER ). WHEN DOING DAMAGE DIRECTLY I HAVE A WAY TO SWAY THE MATCH MY WAY , WHEN RUNNING AS I AM SIMPLY NEGATING POTENTIAL DAMAGE & SOME EARLY SCOUTING . THE CHANCE OF COMPLETELY BLOCKING IT IS NIL , YOU HAVE 2-3 FT FOR  14 SHIPS WITH UP TO 8 HOSTILES , IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO COVER FOR YA ALL. WG MAKE AA STRONK SO YOU CAN BABYSIT YOURSELVES MOST OF THE TIME.

Part 2 : What if i dont fail you in AS and you fail me what then ? I have many times see an AS carrier win me then for his team to fail him in a salty way. HE LOST THE GAME AND HE HAS NO WAY OF GETTING BACK ON TRACK BECAUSE HE CANT DO ENOUGH DAMAGE.

Part 3 : what i say here i hope for the best of newer or less experienced carriers to deal with what they have a make real contribution. YOU GUYS ALWAYS ASSUME THAT YOU OR ANY OTHER GUY WILL CARRY THE GAME AND NOT THE CARRIER, IS THAT FAIR ? I do not look up other people stats because it is rude , so in a game how do i know that a ship will win the game ?. Playing AS is simply rolling a dice because you rely on strangers to lift the weight for you , you have limited direct choices in surface action.

I am sorry if any of those words hurt / offence you but because i have went through with STRIKE and able to help my team way more than playing right click fighters which is boring ?. Last of words : playing air superiority is very boring because a lot of left clicks and not so much else , i feel that to have a good game for your team the carrier has to do a boring not so refreshing game experience. So please think about it.

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Bad players do not justify a loadout. I have seen players go strike and deletes 3-4 key ships quickly which is a huge contribution. Everyone should be able to handle Airstrikes to some extent by their own, not always depending on the CV.

I am glad you think that. I guess you also consider deicide to be a bad player than? Like a lot of people seem to, you appear to have fallen into the trap of believing just because someone isn't good, they cannot have good (or perhaps even correct) ideas. 

 

Legionary, less caps is good for everyone. Makes it easier on my weak eyes anyway. You are correct it is unreasonable to expect a cv to protect every other ship on your team. And if you can consistently make a strike load out work, great. However I can assure you that watching enemy cv make drop after drop with near impunity because you have enemy fighters circling your carrier is right up there with sniper rifle bbs in terms of frustration 

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Super Tester
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USN strike is pretty much the "all-or-nothing" option in the world of CVs. The problem is, the strike relies heavily on dive bombers, which have questionable accuracy, so this places a base amount of "inconsistency" already even if the manual drop is dead-center. In addition, T5-T8 USN strike loadouts do not have fighters; this means that due to game mechanics, you are literally unable to shake off even 1 fighter and catapult fighters become a nightmare to deal with, not to mention the risk of getting sniped yourself (except when using the Lexington as that thing has AA that is closer to an Iowa than an NC). This means you really really have to make each strike count and know how to get around enemy fighters and manage bombers efficiently.

 

However, despite the very high risks and skill requirements, the rewards are nothing short of spectacular when it DOES work. While the strike Independence is not worth taking (111 is a far better loadout), strike Bogue, Ranger, and Lexington provide unrivaled destruction when compared to their IJN counterparts, especially against capital ships or large ships in general (soviet cruisers count if DF AA is not used). This means that given a good game, a strike USN CV will almost always carry the game. In a sense, you will have to win by "damage-racing" the enemy carrier. 

 

Still, the problem lies in the fact that the stars need to align for them to succeed: low/incompetent enemy fighter cover, lack of extreme blobbing, not sniped, etc etc and these can really ruin your day.

Edited by stratmania

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[LNA]
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Legionary, less caps is good for everyone. Makes it easier on my weak eyes anyway. You are correct it is unreasonable to expect a cv to protect every other ship on your team. And if you can consistently make a strike load out work, great. However I can assure you that watching enemy cv make drop after drop with near impunity because you have enemy fighters circling your carrier is right up there with sniper rifle bbs in terms of frustration 

 

 

Yeah i know getting rekt by a CV is anything but fun and i play bb too , but not very good. But when i see ppl play bb everyone has anti air measure to the extreme , to the point that i rely more on AA than on FT. Some ship delete planes faster than a FT doing dogfight which is assurd and you meet a lot of those builds after tier 6 to my frustration , both FT heavy or Strike heavy are severely handicapped as both has to turn back instead of all out engage in air dominance. After tier 8 , carriers stop actively going after bb because well they are so far back and armed to the teeth to fight planes. Yeah middle tier bb struggles but not the high tier ones

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Yeah i know getting rekt by a CV is anything but fun and i play bb too , but not very good. But when i see ppl play bb everyone has anti air measure to the extreme , to the point that i rely more on AA than on FT. Some ship delete planes faster than a FT doing dogfight which is assurd and you meet a lot of those builds after tier 6 to my frustration , both FT heavy or Strike heavy are severely handicapped as both has to turn back instead of all out engage in air dominance. After tier 8 , carriers stop actively going after bb because well they are so far back and armed to the teeth to fight planes. Yeah middle tier bb struggles but not the high tier ones

Thank you. We may disagree, but at least we can do it with a measure of courtesy. I can agree with you that the AS build is also quite limiting 

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Super Tester
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Well guys. Thanks for all the feedback.  So far all i have fought have been bogues with 2/0/1 on the op force. One guy spent an entire game just chasing my planes around the map and to cap it all off they had 2 Clevelands... :( I don't even think he damaged anyone....

 

Still perservering with the 1/1/0 at the moment with a 3 point captain.  

Edited by Ensign_Brendoonigan

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