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27000ants

The Hatsuharu Experiment

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Welcome.

 

Back in March (or roughly before the ARP Haguro mission was active) I was grinding a ship that I thought was absolute garbage. It was the Hatsuharu, and it seemed that it was a downgrade from the Mutsuki in every aspect that mattered (Speed, Concealment, and arguably, Torpedo reload rate), and being a tier 7 meant that it was unable to mount the concealment module.

 

It was one of the worst performing ships in my stats with a pathetic average damage and win rate (41% over 120ish games). Being the scrub that I was (or possibly still am), I was trying to rush through the ship to get to Fubuki, which did not help the poor performance.

 

Recently (after about 100 games in Kagero at 41% WR [Fletchers are a nightmare]) it has come to my attention that to get good at the high tiers one must get good at the low tiers, hence the decision to revisit some of my most hated ships. Hatsuharu was the first I decided to try.

 

From experience in Kagero and Fubuki, high tier IJN-DDs (read: those with 5inch guns) actually have to start to use guns to deal consistent damage, and that with AFT one could invisifire for about 2km on Fubuki and 1.3km on Kagero. And on that basis the Hatsuharu experiment began with me attempting to use her as a Gunboat (stock hull).

 

Because I did not have a free 10pt captain I had to use a new guy and train him up. But it was in leveling up a new guy that I realized the reason why I failed earlier. Back in March I had attempted to use Hatsuharu as I did a Minekaze, coming up to point-blank range, unleashing 6 torps, and spend the next 40s reloading. So that old captain had Torpedo Acceleration, and that made hunting capital ships through a cruiser screen impossible.

 

Now, I realize that her stock torpedos are superior to the faster upgrades for 1 reason: Detection range of torpedos. When the ship is alone, the difference is small, but when there are many escort fighters orbiting the target and her escorts, every 100m less detection is important for running the gauntlet.

 

Next comes the largest change in my opinion. Hatsuharu works with the Torpedo Reload booster better than Kagero does. Kagero needs the smoke slot because she is slow (pop smoke and hope the Fletchers come to within 2km and cant dodge 8 F3s) and high tier carrier players will absolutely murder any DD player on sight (better to have him guess where you are in the smoke than to be Taihoed. But Hatsuharu has the speed to disengage and carrier players at that tier still focus on killing the battleships, so she stands a chance of survival without smoke. Also, I realized that by using the stock hull, it is possible to actually fight American DDs and win should the situation allow, only problem is having less health (which is irrelevant in tier 8-9 games where cruisers will evaporate you in 1 salvo anyway). This would allow one to torp-spam (gasp), and when one is skilled enough (or lucky), you can use the first set of torps to bait the target into a turn, hopefully set a flood with them, and have him in a vulnerable spot to take the second set (I can go into great detail in another comment box)

 

Currently I would suggest the captains skills as follows: BFT, EM, Superintendent, AFT, Concealment, and if you have the magical 19th skill point, Survivability expert). I currently have the first 3, with AFT not long off. It seems that this build would suit the upcoming IJN DD branch (unsure about how their lower speeds (33-34knots) would affect this, given how USN DDs of tiers 6-8 are around 35knots). As it stands, the Hatsuharu experiment would run until I grind out ARP Takao, or when the new IJN DDs come, whichever is last.

 

To summarize, I am currently driving a Hatsuharu around with the only upgraded module being the gun range and without smoke just to prove myself wrong, and to get a commander ready for Akizuki.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that in the space of 30 battles I brought my WR up to 44%. It's something...

Edited by 27000ants

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Super Tester
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Welcome.

 

Back in March (or roughly before the ARP Haguro mission was active) I was grinding a ship that I thought was absolute garbage. It was the Hatsuharu, and it seemed that it was a downgrade from the Mutsuki in every aspect that mattered (Speed, Concealment, and arguably, Torpedo reload rate), and being a tier 7 meant that it was unable to mount the concealment module.

 

It was one of the worst performing ships in my stats with a pathetic average damage and win rate (41% over 120ish games). Being the scrub that I was (or possibly still am), I was trying to rush through the ship to get to Fubuki, which did not help the poor performance.

 

Recently (after about 100 games in Kagero at 41% WR [Fletchers are a nightmare]) it has come to my attention that to get good at the high tiers one must get good at the low tiers, hence the decision to revisit some of my most hated ships. Hatsuharu was the first I decided to try.

 

From experience in Kagero and Fubuki, high tier IJN-DDs (read: those with 5inch guns) actually have to start to use guns to deal consistent damage, and that with AFT one could invisifire for about 2km on Fubuki and 1.3km on Kagero. And on that basis the Hatsuharu experiment began with me attempting to use her as a Gunboat (stock hull).

 

Because I did not have a free 10pt captain I had to use a new guy and train him up. But it was in leveling up a new guy that I realized the reason why I failed earlier. Back in March I had attempted to use Hatsuharu as I did a Minekaze, coming up to point-blank range, unleashing 6 torps, and spend the next 40s reloading. So that old captain had Torpedo Acceleration, and that made hunting capital ships through a cruiser screen impossible.

 

Now, I realize that her stock torpedos are superior to the faster upgrades for 1 reason: Detection range of torpedos. When the ship is alone, the difference is small, but when there are many escort fighters orbiting the target and her escorts, every 100m less detection is important for running the gauntlet.

 

Next comes the largest change in my opinion. Hatsuharu works with the Torpedo Reload booster better than Kagero does. Kagero needs the smoke slot because she is slow (pop smoke and hope the Fletchers come to within 2km and cant dodge 8 F3s) and high tier carrier players will absolutely murder any DD player on sight (better to have him guess where you are in the smoke than to be Taihoed. But Hatsuharu has the speed to disengage and carrier players at that tier still focus on killing the battleships, so she stands a chance of survival without smoke. Also, I realized that by using the stock hull, it is possible to actually fight American DDs and win should the situation allow, only problem is having less health (which is irrelevant in tier 8-9 games where cruisers will evaporate you in 1 salvo anyway). This would allow one to torp-spam (gasp), and when one is skilled enough (or lucky), you can use the first set of torps to bait the target into a turn, hopefully set a flood with them, and have him in a vulnerable spot to take the second set (I can go into great detail in another comment box)

 

Currently I would suggest the captains skills as follows: BFT, EM, Superintendent, AFT, Concealment, and if you have the magical 19th skill point, Survivability expert). I currently have the first 3, with AFT not long off. It seems that this build would suit the upcoming IJN DD branch (unsure about how their lower speeds (33-34knots) would affect this, given how USN DDs of tiers 6-8 are around 35knots). As it stands, the Hatsuharu experiment would run until I grind out ARP Takao, or when the new IJN DDs come, whichever is last.

 

To summarize, I am currently driving a Hatsuharu around with the only upgraded module being the gun range and without smoke just to prove myself wrong, and to get a commander ready for Akizuki.

 

If you have no smoke then how to capture?

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If you have no smoke then how to capture?

 

Smoke is a torpedo magnet, and anyway the idea is that you kill the guy who is in the base before trying to capture it.

IJN DDs do not capture bases well anyway

 

Edit: I would say that the Hatsuharu's strength is a better concealment for its tier, so that will give you enough warning against Mahans and Kievs that try to contest, and it has the guns to scare off the Mutsukis which can actually get in closer. This build is more focused on Capital Ship hunting, which was supposed to be the role of the IJN DDs

Edited by 27000ants

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Member
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When i unlocked Hatsuharu, I was really bad at her that my overall winrate started to plummet down. Then i decided to unlock the Wakatake. That was when i realized that i was doing something wrong. After that revelation, I changed my playstyle and my winrate started to rise. I'm currently at 60% winrate in 103 battles in my Hatsuharu. My torpedo hit rate rose from 4% to 8%.

 

What i'm excited about is Akatsuki's 3x3 Torpedoes which will soon replace my Hatsuharu's 3x2

Edited by Loshirai14

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[ATLAS]
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If you have no smoke then how to capture?

 

not all random games are domination though, if it's one you can lemmingtrain to other DD. If you are the only DD tough luck, that won't happen a lot though

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Super Tester
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No smoke on your DD = guaranteed dead against competent player in most cases. I don't think going into a battle hoping for the enemy to be kinda dumb is a good strategy.

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Super Tester
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Ay lmao same I'm also grinding the Hatsuharu out in hopes of getting Fubuki soon, currently standing at 105 battles at a 46% winrate and 7% torpedo hit rate. The Hatsuharu seems to be good at scaring ships, particularly lower tier DDs, away. Personally if I get matched up against higher tier opponents or gunboats I'd fire my guns to kite them and chase after me, since the detection is a real blessing when it comes to being bottom tier in a game. The maneuverability of the Hatsuharu is also pretty good at higher tiers, and together with engine boost will allow you to out maneuver even large tight spreads of torpedoes launched at point blank at high tiers. Where the Hatsuharu really excels is if your team has a relatively experienced carrier to chase the planes away and spot enemy DDs for you, then you will reign supreme in any domination mode (provided the enemy DD doesn't decide to yolo charge).

 

Also the Hatsuharu smoke is better used as a bait for enemy DDs to launch away their torpedoes so you can CQC them or just for running away. It doesn't last very long and it's almost guaranteed you will die in it when matched against competent enemy DDs (or ships with radar).

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Super Tester
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Ay lmao same I'm also grinding the Hatsuharu out in hopes of getting Fubuki soon, currently standing at 105 battles at a 46% winrate and 7% torpedo hit rate. The Hatsuharu seems to be good at scaring ships, particularly lower tier DDs, away. Personally if I get matched up against higher tier opponents or gunboats I'd fire my guns to kite them and chase after me, since the detection is a real blessing when it comes to being bottom tier in a game. The maneuverability of the Hatsuharu is also pretty good at higher tiers, and together with engine boost will allow you to out maneuver even large tight spreads of torpedoes launched at point blank at high tiers. Where the Hatsuharu really excels is if your team has a relatively experienced carrier to chase the planes away and spot enemy DDs for you, then you will reign supreme in any domination mode (provided the enemy DD doesn't decide to yolo charge).

 

Also the Hatsuharu smoke is better used as a bait for enemy DDs to launch away their torpedoes so you can CQC them or just for running away. It doesn't last very long and it's almost guaranteed you will die in it when matched against competent enemy DDs (or ships with radar).

 

Can't really imagine a hatsuharu doing cqc with a gunboat and winning. Problem with IJN DDs at the moment is they are too much reliant on enemy mistakes which you should not assume that always will happen, or they are heavily reliant on friendlies to distract or cover for hatsu to make use of her torps. which is not going to happen in a random match either. CV support? what is that... lol.

 

yes IJN guns are good, but they are useless cause they cannot keep up with the ships wiggling in cqc. and their dpm is no where near other gunboats of the same tier.  for T7, it's even more brutal. Kiev, Leningrad, Blyskawica, Sims, Mahan.... 

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Super Tester
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Can't really imagine a hatsuharu doing cqc with a gunboat and winning. Problem with IJN DDs at the moment is they are too much reliant on enemy mistakes which you should not assume that always will happen, or they are heavily reliant on friendlies to distract or cover for hatsu to make use of her torps. which is not going to happen in a random match either. CV support? what is that... lol.

 

yes IJN guns are good, but they are useless cause they cannot keep up with the ships wiggling in cqc. and their dpm is no where near other gunboats of the same tier.  for T7, it's even more brutal. Kiev, Leningrad, Blyskawica, Sims, Mahan.... 

 

For me I try to keep the distance around 7 to 9km. Seems to be the sweet spot for IJN DDs in gun fights with it's relatively more accurate guns and enough time to turn and avoid USN gun arcs. That being said, I'd rather avoid fighting gunboats unless I had absolutely no choice, because the Russians (and the Polish) hurt real bad with their superior guns. Competent CVs are hard to find, but there sure are a lot of CVs around that will be willing to spot if you ask (if they speak english)

 

Because of this it's either a game where I deal less than 9k damage and die minutes into combat, or a really good game that the team has a 50/50 chance of winning.

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Yeah, can't really blame the players. The class itself is really inferior in current meta. I wonder how many people will still stick to these torp boats once the IJN DD line is split up.

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Yeah, can't really blame the players. The class itself is really inferior in current meta. I wonder how many people will still stick to these torp boats once the IJN DD line is split up.

 

*Sheepishly puts hand up*

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Yeah, can't really blame the players. The class itself is really inferior in current meta. I wonder how many people will still stick to these torp boats once the IJN DD line is split up.

Not me, I want me an Aki.

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*Sheepishly puts hand up*

+1 me too

 

 

Minekaze clubbers don't count :P

 

I already sold my minekaze for a long time ago........

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Super Tester
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Did someone say clubbing with a CE minekaze?

 

I have a 13 pt captain on Isokaze, and now that I have the Kamikaze, I can train the captain to 15 pt. But somehow I cannot find any interest in IJN DDs, because all my other DDs are far more interesting to play (Ognevoi, Sims, Blyskawica).

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[OZPRT]
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Isokaze is still best pure torp IJN DD, the only thing the Minekaze does better is speed but then has to face tier 7's

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Hatsu is best for sneaking or flanking terpedo boat...once you get hull B.

got 10 Km range terpedo and detectability by sea 6,5 km using camo.


 

Edited by wulung

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Hatsu is best for sneaking or flanking terpedo boat...

got 10 Km range terpedo and detecability by sea 6,5 km using camo.

 

 

 

haave you play Fubuki? with CE  you can get 5.5 KM Detections

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Isokaze is still best pure torp IJN DD, the only thing the Minekaze does better is speed but then has to face tier 7's

 

yup Isokaze seeing only T5 makes it a seal clubbers dream. I'm using the Isolate and Kamikaze to get new IJN dd captains trained up as I move up the line, Ive decided the fubuki is a keeper, once I get the kagero my isolate captain will jumps to the fubuki.

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I'm grinding Hatsu at the moment - have started liking it (feels cumbersome after the previous). I have 70% WR (only 23 matches though) - and find myself doing pretty well most of the time. The abysmal turret turning means I only use the guns in planned situations, usually against other IJN DDs (unless I am pretty sure of surviving). The guns are accurate and hard hitting. It seems to take more punishment than my Kiev (don't lose the rudder, guns, engines as often). 

 

Early on, I mostly drop torps for area denial - I don't worry too much about hitting things, -- and try to use my smoke to help out any friendly BBs who are pushing. I contest caps, but run away from anything Russian or US - or anything with a radar. My main focus is staying alive as the torps are good in the late game for harassing solitary or wounded BBs. I've been using Halloween camo and flags - so have already hit 85k exp - and the Fubuki is around the corner (I read somewhere that there'd be a free IJN DD for New Years for anyone who had unlocked the Tier X - don't think it's confirmed, but gave me a goal). 

 

 

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