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LunaticRed

0.5.12

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Super Tester
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I think I can justify my reasons on why this game is going completely downhill by simply looking at the incoming changes for next patch.

-RN Light Cruisers (CL) smokescreen consumable will be replaced by a special engine boost consumable, 

-Changes to AP shells. All tiers except tier 5 (Emerald) will have the HE withdrawn. AP's standard damage will be cut in half while the AP's ricochet angle increases from 45 degrees to 60 degrees and the shell must ricochet at 75 degrees. the minimum penetration required for fuse activation decreased from 25mm to 12mm.

-RN CLs' armor improvement. Tier 6 and 7 (Leander, Fiji) has their hull armor increase from 13mm to 16mm so that they won't be overmatched by 203mm AP. Tier 8, 9, and 10 (Edinburgh, Neptune, Minotaur) have their hull armor increased from 16mm to 22mm so they can effectively defend against 127mm HE and greatly increase the ricochet chances of 203mm AP.

-Some Tier 5-7 Cruiser's hull thickness would be increased to 19mm. (Some ships only enhance the bow and stern shell, for example, Myoko; some of the others, in contrast, will enhance the whole holes, such as Shchors. Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP, as well as the Tier 6,7 CA's resistance to against the Akizuki's 100mm HE.

-Tier 6-10 Destroyer's bow and stern thickness will be decreased. The hull armor within 19-13mm will be decreased to 15-12mm. This changes will help Akizuki's 100mmHE ammunition to against the DD and improve German 105mm/Japanese 100mm secondary batteries' operational effectiveness .

-Montana's bomb deck increase from 29mm to 38mm, so that it can effectively defend against HE from artillery of 220mm and the beneath.Substantially increase chances of Ricochet of 460mm AP in close and medium range.

 

So basically what? RN lose their HE so they basically can't do any damage if the enemy is smart and can angle (Most of SEA can). They get a speed boost so they can now run away from enemy BBs faster to not get deleted instantly.


One DD gunboat is under performing and can't penetrate the other DDs with its HE so instead of fixing the penetration rates, they nerf every single existing destroyer instead. Please tell me how that is smart for game balance? Cruisers get a buff to their armour so that now they devalue the use of AP when a CA fights another CA. This further make the problem of "no-skill HE spam". Finally Montana is basically immune to HE from all cruisers now (save Stalium Moskva).

 

WG now effectively wants the meta to shift from DDs and BBs to just BBs only.

 

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Beta Tester
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So far thats not official patch note, which mean it come from non-official source.

 

Even all you mentioned above is true it still require testing if the concept is workable or not.

 

And most of all we at version 0.5.11 we still not actually at version 1,00 !!! so that normal if WG gonna change something or lots of things:D:D:D

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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[MEGA]
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no, BBs are getting a nerf too, and dont jump to conclusions, it's not nice to assume that RN CAs will be bad, when you throw the concealment, ROF, and speed boost in with this data, i think they will proform just fine, frankly i love it that WG is trying something new with the RN CLs, instead of malking them smoke camp cancers, and where did you get the idea,that WG is advocating HE spam, look carefully at how the penatration values have changed, this is a BUFF, not a nerf. and the nerf to DD's armor? there IS NO DIFFRENCE, the only thing that changed is the 100mm guns can

actually work now, other ships are still going to the same damage on them reguardless

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-Tier 6-10 Destroyer's bow and stern thickness will be decreased. The hull armor within 19-13mm will be decreased to 15-12mm. This changes will help Akizuki's 100mmHE ammunition

 

One DD gunboat is under performing and can't penetrate the other DDs with its HE so instead of fixing the penetration rates, they nerf every single existing destroyer instead. Please tell me how that is smart for game balance? Cruisers get a buff to their armour so that now they devalue the use of AP when a CA fights another CA. This further make the problem of "no-skill HE spam". Finally Montana is basically immune to HE from all cruisers now (save Stalium Moskva).

 

WG now effectively wants the meta to shift from DDs and BBs to just BBs only.

 

 

wtf? rip gunboat DD. paytago and other HE spammer will rip them to pieces. seriously like what you said why they didn't just increase the penetration of Akizuki guns instead of nefting DD armor.

 

why its so easy for WG to neft Destroyer while it take forever to do single changes in battleship e.g yamato.

 

they nerf every other ship class that are op except her. she almost remain the same since CBT.

Edited by yansuki

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Super Tester
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no, BBs are getting a nerf too, and dont jump to conclusions, it's not nice to assume that RN CAs will be bad, when you throw the concealment, ROF, and speed boost in with this data, i think they will proform just fine, frankly i love it that WG is trying something new with the RN CLs, instead of malking them smoke camp cancers, and where did you get the idea,that WG is advocating HE spam, look carefully at how the penatration values have changed, this is a BUFF, not a nerf. and the nerf to DD's armor? there IS NO DIFFRENCE, the only thing that changed is the 100mm guns can

actually work now, other ships are still going to the same damage on them reguardless

 

Did you even read my post? I'll even highlight the important bit of cruiser armour and HE spam:

 

Cruisers get a buff to their armour so that now they devalue the use of AP when a CA fights another CA. This further make the problem of "no-skill HE spam".

 

If you really think the 32mm > 28mm bow armour nerf to BBs will make gameplay any less of BBs sniping from 30km and never pushing or simply aiming at each other instead of CAs then I will give you a lifetime supply of premium and dubloons.

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Super Tester
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I read these leak threads and theres always guys saying stuff like "roll this back now!" or "I can't believe you've done this WG!"

 

However, I want to ask a question in reply: "Roll what back? The ships aren't even out."

 

This is a leak thread. With leaked information. Information that you are not even supposed to see yet because it is not finalised and approved for public knowledge. If you have better ideas, please inform us instead of speculating on leaked information.

 

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So basically what? RN lose their HE so they basically can't do any damage if the enemy is smart and can angle (Most of SEA can). They get a speed boost so they can now run away from enemy BBs faster to not get deleted instantly.

 

Have you even played USN CAs?

 

One DD gunboat is under performing and can't penetrate the other DDs with its HE so instead of fixing the penetration rates, they nerf every single existing destroyer instead. Please tell me how that is smart for game balance? 

 

 

wtf? rip gunboat DD. paytago and other HE spammer will rip them to pieces. seriously like what you said why they didn't just increase the penetration of Akizuki guns instead of nefting DD armor.

 

Just like what the game like as it currently is?

Nerfing DDs armor does nothing because they effectively have no armor in the first place, even Wickes/Clemson's 100mm guns can pummel equal and higher tier DDs.

They're sticking to the rule of gun caliber/6 = HE penetration instead of making certain guns peculiar to other.

 

View PostLunaticRed, on 16 September 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Cruisers get a buff to their armour so that now they devalue the use of AP when a CA fights another CA. This further make the problem of "no-skill HE spam". Finally Montana is basically immune to HE from all cruisers now (save Stalium Moskva).

 

WG now effectively wants the meta to shift from DDs and BBs to just BBs only.

 

CA shooting at another CA that is angling on using AP will never punch trough it since yesteryear. This isn't a new surprise after all, it only give a slightly better chance to ricochet when angling too much.

One of them would eventually switch to HE or show its broadside. Whichever made the first mistake would suffer.

 

Basically this 'leak' does nothing to the game other than introducing a new meta for the upcoming RN CL.

 

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If you really think the 32mm > 28mm bow armour nerf to BBs will make gameplay any less of BBs sniping from 30km and never pushing or simply aiming at each other instead of CAs then I will give you a lifetime supply of premium and dubloons.

 

BB Snipe meta will never changed because there the fact that BB is big, slow and easy target for everything we can see lots of yolo BB once WG make BB immune to everythings which will result in World of Battleships anyways :D:D:D

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I don't know where u got those informations from.

 

But all i can say is that wargaming hasn't said anything about the RN and the other changes too.

 

Even tho they could be right, but what can i say, it's all up to wargaming.

 

Edit: also nerfing the dds armor won't change anything. who even cares about armor when you're playing dds?

Edited by Blade_Runner58

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Super Tester
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I read these leak threads and theres always guys saying stuff like "roll this back now!" or "I can't believe you've done this WG!"

 

However, I want to ask a question in reply: "Roll what back? The ships aren't even out."

 

This is a leak thread. With leaked information. Information that you are not even supposed to see yet because it is not finalised and approved for public knowledge. If you have better ideas, please inform us instead of speculating on leaked information.

 

Not disagreeing with you on the question but simply answering: it's like when a company retracts a pre-order bonus on a game or a feature. As for the leaked information, i'm simply giving my opinion as a cruiser player on why it is problematic. Ideas and balancing is your job; as a supertester.

 

Have you even played USN CAs?

 

How does me playing USN CAs or not change anything?

CA shooting at another CA that is angling on using AP will never punch trough it since yesteryear. This isn't a new surprise after all, it only give a slightly better chance to ricochet when angling too much.

One of them would eventually switch to HE or show its broadside. Whichever made the first mistake would suffer.

 

Basically this 'leak' does nothing to the game other than introducing a new meta for the upcoming RN CL.

 

 

Yea, you're strawmanning.  Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP means AP will have a greater change of ricocheting. Why shoot AP at a BB in your DD if it will deal 100 damage but HE can set fires and does 500 damage?

 

 

BB Snipe meta will never changed because there the fact that BB is big, slow and easy target for everything we can see lots of yolo BB once WG make BB immune to everythings which will result in World of Battleships anyways :D:D:D

 

Have you seen EU play? Their whole team is around the middle by 5 minutes. Even their carrier moves up instead of hanging around the back. This was also true for NA when they had the high tier reduction cost. Of course, SEA is a different server so they can't push up :^)

 

that imagination is not going true. Its just a dream.

please wait official patch note

 

And yet the 33% ammo buff to USN CVs 'imagination' was true to a 10% difference.

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Have you seen EU play? Their whole team is around the middle by 5 minutes. Even their carrier moves up instead of hanging around the back. This was also true for NA when they had the high tier reduction cost. Of course, SEA is a different server so they can't push up :^)

 

Because is difference server off course, what do you want WG to do about that :D:D:D 

 

Is not solely because maintenance cost but our servers play differently and ithis style have its own advantage otherwise seasoned player wont use it.

 

And i like this play style and comfortable about it why i need to care about other servers style :trollface:

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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Yea, you're strawmanning.  Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP means AP will have a greater change of ricocheting. Why shoot AP at a BB in your DD if it will deal 100 damage but HE can set fires and does 500 damage?

 

That is not quite how ricocheting works in the game.

 

How does me playing USN CAs or not change anything?

 

USN CAs have unique AP shell trajectory characteristics.

 

Have you seen EU play? Their whole team is around the middle by 5 minutes. Even their carrier moves up instead of hanging around the back. This was also true for NA when they had the high tier reduction cost. Of course, SEA is a different server so they can't push up :^)

 

I would like to ask how you've seen EU play, because I can pull up numerous witnesses to the contrary.

 

As for the leaked information, i'm simply giving my opinion as a cruiser player on why it is problematic. Ideas and balancing is your job; as a supertester.

 

So...speculating on things that have not even been released yet. When a company retracts a feature that they have announced, it is bad. If they lie about announced features, it's even worse (looking at you, Hello Games). This is not the case for Wargaming.
Edited by Haku

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How does me playing USN CAs or not change anything?

 

You really have no idea, do you? Put more time into the game before judging anything regarding game balance especially when it comes to upcoming leaks.

 

USN CAs AP shells have an autobounce angle of 67.5 degrees compared to 60 degrees on other nation's 203mm shells, this means it has a higher chance to pen an angled ship and can even citadel angled cruisers where no other 203's can.

Their rainbow shells trajectory also increases the chance of penning underwater citadels because they are dropping from a steeper angle aka plunge higher than other 203s.

The leaks suggests that RN CL will have the same shell characteristics as USN CAs, with the added rate of fire. The low caliber and shorter fuse time also suggests that they will have a lower chance to overpen unarmored ships. They may be able to regular pen DDs using AP better than other.

 

View PostLunaticRed, on 16 September 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Yea, you're strawmanning.  Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP means AP will have a greater change of ricocheting. 

 

Umm, yeah?

 

View PostLunaticRed, on 16 September 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Why shoot AP at a BB in your DD if it will deal 100 damage but HE can set fires and does 500 damage?

 

Yeah, try showing your broadside to Udaloi/Khabarovsk and watch as they chip away your HP for 5k/salvo.

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[MEGA]
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 Finally Montana is basically immune to HE from all cruisers now (save Stalium Moskva).

no, not even close, montana is still going to take a world of hurt from HE spammers

Edited by drakon233

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Super Tester
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That is not quite how ricocheting works in the game.

USN CAs have unique AP shell trajectory characteristics.

I would like to ask how you've seen EU play, because I can pull up numerous witnesses to the contrary.

So...speculating on things that have not even been released yet. When a company retracts a feature that they have announced, it is bad. If they lie about announced features, it's even worse (looking at you, Hello Games). This is not the case for Wargaming.

 

I'm talking about the interaction between a CA and a CA. Surely Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP  does not mean a myoko will deal as much damage against itself with the enhancement. Of course, feel free to correct me if that IS the case. As for USN, I do not understand why you are bringing that up. Yea sure, they have a higher degree of penetration but a universal nerf to cruisers is still a nerf to USN CAs.

 

I watched IJN_Taiho play and people actively push - even BBs. In 10 minutes, half the team was dead as well as 2 BBs in the enemy cap. There is no posibility of that happening on SEA.

  LRmPAq9.jpg

 

As for a speculation, RN does not have 203mm so I'm obviously not talking about them in a CA vs CA situation which people can't seem to comprehend. Regardless, I am giving my opinion as a CA main backed up with anecdote evidence that logically, people would use HE more AFTER the buff.

 

Yeah, try showing your broadside to Udaloi/Khabarovsk and watch as they chip away your HP for 5k/salvo.

 

Do the same with your sims. It's an analogy.

 

 

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Because is difference server off course, what do you want WG to do about that :D:D:D 

 

Is not solely because maintenance cost but our servers play differently and ithis style have its own advantage otherwise seasoned player wont use it.

 

And i like this play style and comfortable about it why i need to care about other servers style :trollface:

 

: ^)

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As for a speculation, RN does not have 203mm so I'm obviously not talking about them in a CA vs CA situation which people can't seem to comprehend. Regardless, I am giving my opinion as a CA main backed up with anecdote evidence that logically, people would use HE more AFTER the buff.

 

 

Of course people would use HE, just like what we all do with the Soviet cruisers up till tier 8 :teethhappy:

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I watched IJN_Taiho play and people actively push - even BBs. In 10 minutes, half the team was dead as well as 2 BBs in the enemy cap. There is no posibility of that happening on SEA.

 

No possibility of that happening on this server?

 

 

As for USN, I do not understand why you are bringing that up. Yea sure, they have a higher degree of penetration but a universal nerf to cruisers is still a nerf to USN CAs.

 

There is a nerf to cruisers?

 

I'm talking about the interaction between a CA and a CA. Surely Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP  does not mean a myoko will deal as much damage against itself with the enhancement.

 

What on earth are you talking about...

 

As for a speculation, RN does not have 203mm so I'm obviously not talking about them in a CA vs CA situation which people can't seem to comprehend.

 

And yet...

 

I'm talking about the interaction between a CA and a CA...

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CA/L are not allowed to be good.

152mm AP shells with ~1600 alpha damage, no matter how good the pen is, will deal no damage to anything but broadside targets <12km.

There is a reason there are two shell types after all.

Speed boost is also useless on cruisers, especially cruisers with a citadel that takes up half of your ship for no reason.

 

As for Akizuki, I suppose Wargaming decided that having worse shells than Tachibana's 76mm guns six tiers higher (even though there is literally nothing wrong with 100mm secondary's shells) wasn't cutting it. So the easiest way to buff her was to nerf every single other DD that could shrug off her tier 1 shells instead of make her shells better.

 

Really does make me think...

 

Edited by Ultra_Grunt

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Super Tester
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No possibility of that happening on this server?

There is a nerf to cruisers?

What on earth are you talking about...

And yet...

 

What are YOU on about? Do you not comprehend Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP ? This means there is a nerf for cruisers with 203mm when they attack other cruisers. You keep going on about "speculation" of RN yet I'm talking about "Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP". 203mm WILL deal less damage against other cruisers if this is implemented REGARDLESS if RN gets released or not. 

 

Not to mention you post a medium tiered, domination game mode to cherry pick when in fact, I'm talking about high tier as well as standard battle. 

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What are YOU on about? Do you not comprehend Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP ? This means there is a nerf for cruisers with 203mm when they attack other cruisers. You keep going on about "speculation" of RN yet I'm talking about "Enhance of hull thickness can help CA improving the resistance to 203mm AP". 203mm WILL deal less damage against other cruisers if this is implemented REGARDLESS if RN gets released or not. 

You won't get consistent cruiser AP damage against anything angled anyway. CA is already too fragile. I don't see anything wrong about making them more durable against each other.

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