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IJN_Harugumo

Over-nerfs in WoWs: IJN DD and USN CV

  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Has American CV line been nerfed too much?

    • Yes
      44
    • No
      31
  2. 2. Has Japanese DD line been nerfed too much?

    • Yes
      52
    • No
      23

57 comments in this topic

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Even with the current fighter loadout buff, higher tier US cv are still very underpowered, with the removal of a torpedo squadron several patches ago, US CVs lack the means to effectively spot and kill DDs. Which is very crucial to the outcome of the battle, yes, maybe they have got a high average damage, but the WR is way too low.

 

Same thing with high tier Japanese DDs, especially with kagero and shimakaze, The long range torpedoes are effectively useless,

One might say that no one forced you to use type 93, use the short range type F3 instead, however, this makes them just like US/RU DDs, and even worser, because japanese dds with low health, slow transverse of main guns, and short range, their only strong field is in terms of torpedo armament which has been nerfed.

 

And somehow WG doesn't seem to notice these problems?

 

I mean, I play battleships mainly, US CVs and IJN DDs were OP back then and I kinda hated them for that. But now I hardly see US CVs and IJN DDs in high tier battles anymore, I just can't help but to feel like they are nerfed way too much,

Edited by Lordofcaptain

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Super Tester
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Did you try the fighter buff?

 

Yes. 

 

Langley and Bogue do NOT need it. Whoever thought that their fighters needed even more of a buff should take a look at how well they performed. It is very much possible to click the enemy deck clean easily now.

 

Indy and Ranger got an excellent buff that they needed (they are lacking in some other previously discussed areas). Good buff, if making AS Ranger quite the air control juggernaut (hey, a specialty...)

 

Lex, Essex, and Midway needed it due to their low ammo count; more strafes = more kills = better air control even when using balanced loadouts. The extra ammo can win them dogfights... as well as give them 1 more strafe that might take care of enemy bombers.

 

Saipan... I did not play it, so I cannot say. However, It did not need the buff as much as Ranger did (especially with excellent aircraft stats and a no-skill DB squad).

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Member
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It's funny how the famous Type 93 torpedo has the worst detection range in the game. I understand this is not a simulator but this is ridiculous.

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US CVs underpowered? Nerf their fighters first then move Saipan to Tier VIII. Do you know how it feels to play Hiryu against a Saipan? I can't even engage their planes. Every single plane is 1.5 - 2x faster than my planes. It's hell specially when against an AS Saipan. I get completely shut down unless i take AS Hiryu. 

 

Nerf US CV fighters. Either reduce the number of fighter planes from 6-4 then give them 1 torpedo bomber. I had one game where two of my Hiryu Fighters lost to a single Ranger Fighter. I lost 8 planes while the ranger only lost 3. You say US CV is underpowered? In terms of ship damage, they are, but in terms of air control, they completely dominate.

 

If you really want to balance CVs, then remove the fighters. End of story.

 

IJN DDs? They are useless against other DDs specially when against a Gunboat.

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Beta Tester
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It's funny how the famous Type 93 torpedo has the worst detection range in the game. I understand this is not a simulator but this is ridiculous.

 

Because WG rate torpedo detection based on their size and speed, which is stupid.

The only thing IJN torps got going for them is damage and range, but that's useless when the torps are spotted miles away, easier to dodge and reload slower than contemporary US/RU DD torps.

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thing that WG don't try to understand is it's nearly impossible to play high tier IJNDD like minekaze style (short range, high speed torp)

for two obvious reason.

- they too slow,

- high tier CA have radar

and beside, if people prefer short range torp, they would go for USNDD already, they have decent torp range and excellent gun, excellent speed, long smoke duration can do knife fight in competing the cap.

I looking at stats of WoWs in every server, tier 8 - 10 IJNDD are lowest winrate

 

WG try to improve high tier battle by eliminating long lance torp shimakaze.... and it's still not work(?).

it the prove that shimakaze torp isn't the problem.

 

but........ what can player like us do?

just bare with it =w='a

Edited by PGM991

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Oh my god people. How on Earth is the US CV line not overnerfed. They used to be semi decent back in CBT with their very competitive loadout. War Gaming- then Nerf the flight loadout which make them obsolete to the IJN CV line. Wham, nerf to torpedo spread, wham, nerf to planes HP, and then they remove Midway F2H and old torpedoes bombers, and then they nerf USN CV again to the point where all USN CV have 1/1/1 loadout until tier 8. My god people, what is wrong with you ?

Edited by silenthunter19944

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Super Tester
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Oh my god people. How on Earth is the US CV line not overnerfed. They used to be semi decent back in CBT with their very competitive loadout. War Gaming- then Nerf the flight loadout which make them obsolete to the IJN CV line. Wham, nerf to torpedo spread, wham, nerf to planes HP, and then they remove Midway F2H and old torpedoes bombers, and then they nerf USN CV again to the point where all USN CV have 1/1/1 loadout until tier 8. My god people, what is wrong with you ?

 

Low tiers are fine now. Langley and Bogue are fine (with exception of Bogue DBs). As a Langley player, you should know this :teethhappy:

 

Tier 6 onwards is where I see the imbalance. 

 

Indy has too small of a hangar space.

 

Ranger and Lex have problems with loadouts being poorly optimized, as well as reliance on RNG on their strike loadouts (Lex has slow planes). However, their fighter power is formidable. Overall, worse than IJN.

 

Essex and Midway badly needed the fighter ammo buffs, not sure what to say about this (post-nerf strike Essex still wrecks a LOT). I have not played midway 212 yet to arrive at a verdict. IJN is still better overall, but to a lesser degree IMO.

Edited by stratmania

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Low tiers are fine now. Langley and Bogue are fine (with exception of Bogue DBs). As a Langley player, you should know this :teethhappy:

 

Tier 6 onwards is where I see the imbalance. 

 

Indy has too small of a hangar space.

 

Ranger and Lex have problems with loadouts being poorly optimized, as well as reliance on RNG on their strike loadouts (Lex has slow planes). However, their fighter power is formidable. Overall, worse than IJN.

 

Essex and Midway badly needed the fighter ammo buffs, not sure what to say about this (post-nerf strike Essex still wrecks a LOT). I have not played midway 212 yet to arrive at a verdict. IJN is still better overall, but to a lesser degree IMO.

Only tier 4 is ok. Bouge suffers from slow speed and a trash flight loadout 1/1/1 (langley) vs 1/1/0 (Bouge) WTF War Gaming ? Did you even look at the status of other aircraft carriers ? Tier 6-10. That's 4 tiers where the balance is inacceptable. 1/1/1 loafout until tier 9 when the IJN CV get 1 extra squadron every tier? Yeah, "balanced". Ranger was ok for me, but it was when idiots run rampage in CVs. Regardless, Hiryu is noob aid CV. Played the entire IJN CV line during PST and I am disgusted at how easy it is to play IJN CV, every single tier, except for tier 5 was a walk in the park. Essex and Midway, I don't know but from what i've seen the skill less lock and strafe tactic by IJN stills remains and it is impossible to play well unless you flank around the entire map and pray that the IJN CV doesn't realise and CV snipe him. This was true when I played on test server. IJN CV is still better overall in the high tier albeit to a lesser degrees for obvious reason, they never have to suffer like the USN CV captains, they never suffer nerfs after nerfs after nerfs. Look at the IJN CV line, buff to accuracy of TB and DBs as well as the ability to do the skill less lock and strafe tactic much better than the USN CV. If a USN CV captain made it to tier 9 and 10. He/She isn't any ordinary CV captain. A tier 10 USN CV captain is the best of the best CV captains running around  in this game. I am sorry IJN CV captains, I've played your line in every single PTS, and I've never missed any opportunity to hop on a PTS. I've played your line, and I can conclude that playing IJN CV is nothing but a walk in the park, I've never played anything as easy as the IJN CV line, that's all I can say.

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Super Tester
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Only tier 4 is ok. Bouge suffers from slow speed and a trash flight loadout 1/1/1 (langley) vs 1/1/0 (Bouge) WTF War Gaming ? Did you even look at the status of other aircraft carriers ? Tier 6-10. That's 4 tiers where the balance is inacceptable. 1/1/1 loafout until tier 9 when the IJN CV get 1 extra squadron every tier? Yeah, "balanced". Ranger was ok for me, but it was when idiots run rampage in CVs. Regardless, Hiryu is noob aid CV. Played the entire IJN CV line during PST and I am disgusted at how easy it is to play IJN CV, every single tier, except for tier 5 was a walk in the park. Essex and Midway, I don't know but from what i've seen the skill less lock and strafe tactic by IJN stills remains and it is impossible to play well unless you flank around the entire map and pray that the IJN CV doesn't realise and CV snipe him. This was true when I played on test server. IJN CV is still better overall in the high tier albeit to a lesser degrees for obvious reason, they never have to suffer like the USN CV captains, they never suffer nerfs after nerfs after nerfs. Look at the IJN CV line, buff to accuracy of TB and DBs as well as the ability to do the skill less lock and strafe tactic much better than the USN CV. If a USN CV captain made it to tier 9 and 10. He/She isn't any ordinary CV captain. A tier 10 USN CV captain is the best of the best CV captains running around  in this game. I am sorry IJN CV captains, I've played your line in every single PTS, and I've never missed any opportunity to hop on a PTS. I've played your line, and I can conclude that playing IJN CV is nothing but a walk in the park, I've never played anything as easy as the IJN CV line, that's all I can say.

 

I played both at the same time after the AA buffs and USN CV nerfs. How is IJN "easy mode" ? That line requires micro. Its better, but you need to have the skill to be able to use it effectively (there are still incompetents at higher tiers).

 

Of course, if you are very skilled, then yes, IJN is better overall since they are more flexible and more consistent.

Edited by stratmania

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Super Tester
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I have only been playing for just over a month so i do know know how powerful they where in there heyday but for the majority of the time i play DDs, IJN DDs mainly and after the Isokaze and Minekaze the quality of the torpedoes declines quite a bit, to the point where i do have to play like a US/USSR DD, (i even took torpedo acceleration to try and make them more reliable)

 

Its not uncommon that i watch a torpedo salvo get spotted and dodged before they even get close to my target when i am using the Hatsuharu (which is mainly battleships if i have my way) there speed, range and reload speed is not the issue, its the large amount of time a player has to react to them, and there are tool that increase that further then that.

 

When i first started playing the IJN DDs i played nothing but these until i could sit on the 1 km distance between my detection range and my torpedo range quite easily but when i hit the Mutsuki and the Hatsuharu that all went out the window due to how much time people have to react even the fat battleships as the tiers go up to the point that i rely more on my guns then my torpedo's beyond 6kms which is the opposite if what the IJN DDs are supposed to play like: stealth torpedo boats

Edited by daTungsten

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I have only been playing for just over a month so i do know know how powerful they where in there heyday but for the majority of the time i play DDs, IJN DDs mainly and after the Isokaze and Minekaze the quality of the torpedoes declines quite a bit, to the point where i do have to play like a US/USSR DD, (i even took torpedo acceleration to try and make them more reliable)

 

Its not uncommon that i watch a torpedo salvo get spotted and dodged before they even get close to my target when i am using the Hatsuharu (which is mainly battleships if i have my way) there speed, range and reload speed is not the issue, its the large amount of time a player has to react to them, and there are tool that increase that further then that.

 

When i first started playing the IJN DDs i played nothing but these until i could sit on the 1 km distance between my detection range and my torpedo range quite easily but when i hit the Mutsuki and the Hatsuharu that all went out the window due to how much time people have to react even the fat battleships as the tiers go up to the point that i rely more on my guns then my torpedo's beyond 6kms which is the opposite if what the IJN DDs are supposed to play like: stealth torpedo boats

 

The nerfs primarily concerned Kagero and Shimakaze.

 

The rest were relatively untouched.

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With the recent plan changes on the IJN DD tech tree, there will be some adjustments again to that line......and I hope WG realizes their "too much" nerf on the high tier DD's.....

In the recent patch 0.5.11, USN CV fighters already is buffed with their ammo, so I think this one is merely out of the question.....


wait for the next update about the IJN DD's tho....

 

 

:honoring:

Edited by IJN_Akashi

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Alpha Tester
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The nerfs primarily concerned Kagero and Shimakaze.

 

The rest were relatively untouched.

 

meh

Mutsuki and Hatsuharu got nerf severely at the beta

Wtih cry BaBy whining in the forum about "Can't do anything, not even Turning will save you"

basically, all Long Lance Torpedo is awfully, not historical

Edited by Harpoon01

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iirc the reason why WG nerf IJN 20km torpedo is because of that video made my Ichaase where he demonstrate last stand shimakaze build where he allow her division mate to damage his shima down to 10% in trade of faster reload of torpedo, now add that 30% to that torpedo reload module and captain skill torpedo reload then you can spam 20km indefinitely without showing yourself and still get good result. now do to a 3 shima division and you will get endless waves of torpedoes. WG don't wanted that.

 

 

still pretty overkill neft for lower tier though. maybe WG should increase the range but also increase the reload so it will force the DD players to learn when is the right time to launch the torpedo instead of mindlessly spamming the torpedo.

 

also remove last chance and replace it with other useful skill that cant' be exploited like this.

Edited by yansuki

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iirc the reason why WG nerf IJN 20km torpedo is because of that video made my Ichaase where he demonstrate last stand shimakaze build where he allow her division mate to damage his shima down to 10% in trade of faster reload of torpedo, now add that 30% to that torpedo reload module and captain skill torpedo reload then you can spam 20km indefinitely without showing yourself and still get good result. now do to a 3 shima division and you will get endless waves of torpedoes. WG don't wanted that.

 

 

still quite useless, not only they nerf the 20 km torp, they also remove it completely from Shimakaze

Crippling Kagerou as "Free exp Material" other than Izumo

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i don't really get the decision of WG removing it completely instead of just nerfing its range down to 12-15km, while they still keep Gearing 15km fast torpedo.

 

i think i shima players played huge role why they nerf her. like yamato player who loves to snipe their target from great distance. most shima player i see just like to stay away safely and spam their torpedo safely without exposing themselves to danger and still get good result because shima torpedo really hurts a lot.

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Alpha Tester
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 most shima player i see just like to stay away safely and spam their torpedo safely without exposing themselves to danger and still get good result because shima torpedo really hurts a lot.

 

that's exactly the reason of their nerf

"We don't want the Japanese Destroyer to Safely and easily Spam their torpedo without some Risk"

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Super Tester
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also remove last stand and replace it with other useful skill that cant' be exploited like this.

 

I think you have your skills mixed up, Last stand stops engines and rudders from being fully incapacitated, last chance is the one that reduces reload time

 

still quite useless, not only they nerf the 20 km torp, they also remove it completely from Shimakaze

Crippling Kagerou as "Free exp Material" other than Izumo

 

The shimekaze still has the 20km torp when i look at it on the tech tree?

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I think you have your skills mixed up, Last stand stops engines and rudders from being fully incapacitated, last chance is the one that reduces reload time

 

 

The shimekaze still has the 20km torp when i look at it on the tech tree?

 

Ah yes

I mean

That torpedo is completely useless with lower speed, lower RoF, lower Alpha, easy to detect 

 

No one use it in Kagerou at all

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I think you have your skills mixed up, Last stand stops engines and rudders from being fully incapacitated, last chance is the one that reduces reload time

 

oh thanks for reminding me, i was about to sleep when and bit sleepy when i type this so i kinda mix it up.

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