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WorldConqueror86

What is the logic in allowing carriers to spot and kill dds at will?

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Supposedly you designed classes with rock paper scissors in mind, where one class can beat another but is susceptible to a third. Carriers are supposed to be susceptible to dds, they are the only ship that has the possibility to sneak through enemy formations and hit carriers before the end of battle. But carriers can send out fighter squadrons to keep dds lit the entire battle, and then they send bombers and torp planes out, and you can't dodge 4 squadrons of those at once. So the one thing that is a threat to carriers is routinely destroyed before they get anywhere near them, because you can't dodge 2 lots of torps dropped less than 1km away as well as 2 squadrons of bombers. Did you learn nothing from your implementation of artillery in WoT, or is it just really important to you that the absolute worst players have a way to pad their overall damage ratio so they don't feel too bad about themselves when they look at their stats?

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yep. this. been waiting a bit too long for someone to finally point this out.

I thought cv was meant to deal with camping BBs? now that BB's AA has been buffed af, CVs think it doesn't even worth it anymore to even try attacking BBs.

and guess what, DD is always there pushing ahead, without much anti-air support, alone at the front.because they're basically just doing their job? easy pickings.

 

my rather simple suggestion is to disable the effect for torpedo acceleration skill on TB and/or increase the arming time for TB's torp.

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If there were no CV's then DD's would run rampant, being constantly spotted by fighters is a pain however imo it's up to either your CV to remove that threat (which rarely happens) or for you to seek AA cover from friendlies.

Best way to sneak up on a CV is to wait until his planes have gone after a target somewhere and are not returning then dash in and finish them.

Worst part as a DD is when you get close and have therefore spotted the CV, some moron BB/CA will open up on them making them take evasive action.

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CVs aren't "meant to deal with camping BBs". CVs are meant to deal with any unsupported or undefended ship, regardless of whether they're a DD, CA, CV or BB.

 

If a DD is pushing up undefended and unsupported and gets killed by an opposing CV player, that's the game balance at work for the DD's allied CV not providing aircover, or allied cruisers too far away to panic aircraft with defensive fire.

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hmm. I thought my point was.. CVs are killing the DDs too easily.

 

if it's an unguarded CA, do one or two torp will be enough to kill it from full HP?

because most of the time that's enough to kill a DD.

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You clearly have no idea how difficult it is to drop on DDs as a CV.

 

Especially when they're actively dodging.

 

dodging 1 TB squad is easy as pie,

2 TB.... now it will take some hit

2 TB + 2 DB ... Holy..... shit

2 TB + 2 DB + HE rain form CA, US/RUDD tier 8+               R.I.P.

 

did I ever mention that I use to gang up by 4 TB form 2 CV in my minekaze? I let go the mouse and 'screw it!!'

Edited by PGM991

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Wait, you guys are really suggesting that dds should stick under the friendly AA umbrella? That might work on Russian dds if they go half speed, since they have range. Though at that point you might as well drive a cruiser, at least you have HP then. Other dds have to get within 8km at the most at mid tiers to torp, when was the last time you saw a BB or cruiser within 8km of an enemy?

 

 

You clearly have no idea how difficult it is to drop on DDs as a CV.

 

Especially when they're actively dodging.

 

Oh look, a guy whose most played ship by far is a carrier. Why am I not surprised.

 

And it's bullshit that it's difficult, you can drop torps practically right on top of them. A lot harder to dodge torps at less than 1km than it is to drop them that close.

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The rock-paper-scissors system in this game doesn't work like that. It's more like this :

 

BB > CA > DD > BB

CV > BB, CA, DD, but also BB, CA, DD > CV.

 

If a CV is able to put constant pressure on you, that means you are badly out of position, or trying to do something stupid like hunting enemy CV alone. Ask for air cover from your own CV or CA when you're trying to push. Don't try your luck by going in yourself.

 

Oh look, a guy whose most played ship by far is a carrier. Why am I not surprised.

 

Oh look, a guy who never played a carrier complaining about carriers. Why am I not surprised.

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Wait, you guys are really suggesting that dds should stick under the friendly AA umbrella? That might work on Russian dds if they go half speed, since they have range. Though at that point you might as well drive a cruiser, at least you have HP then. Other dds have to get within 8km at the most at mid tiers to torp, when was the last time you saw a BB or cruiser within 8km of an enemy?

 

 

Oh look, a guy whose most played ship by far is a carrier. Why am I not surprised.

 

And it's bullshit that it's difficult, you can drop torps practically right on top of them. A lot harder to dodge torps at less than 1km than it is to drop them that close.

 

As someone who has 47.8% of their games in DDs, I'm willing to back them up and say that yes, DDs are a pain in the upper thigh to hit with torps. DBs too, but that's a matter of RNG.
Edited by Echo_8_ERA

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Wait, you guys are really suggesting that dds should stick under the friendly AA umbrella? That might work on Russian dds if they go half speed, since they have range. Though at that point you might as well drive a cruiser, at least you have HP then. Other dds have to get within 8km at the most at mid tiers to torp, when was the last time you saw a BB or cruiser within 8km of an enemy?

 

The idea is to be in advance of the fleet while still being within support range.

 

If you're farther than 7km your nearest ally, then you very much deserve to get bombed because unsupported DDs are literally the most viable target for CVs given their lower AA rating and their general "Lone wolf attitude"- Excellent for dealing damage without taking much losses.

 

There is strength in numbers. Stray too far and it's an invitation to die. Stick too close and you won't benefit the team.

 

Oh look, a guy whose most played ship by far is a carrier. Why am I not surprised.

And it's bullshit that it's difficult, you can drop torps practically right on top of them. A lot harder to dodge torps at less than 1km than it is to drop them that close.

 

You failed to mention that the difference in percentages between the ship classes I've played is less than 1%- Oh, and let's see... As of this moment, carriers are literally 3rd in my ships played. Great analysis on your part.

 

You realize it takes 4 seconds for air-dropped torpedoes to arm, right? Great.

Guess the rudder shift time for DDs. Let's not forget the speed of DDs- Also taking into account acceleration and deceleration.

Without TA the torps can only go 35kt- Guess how many DDs go past that?

WIth TA, you get 40kt torps but you need to drop further because the 4s arming time is fixed.

 

Basically, you need to predict a point where the DD will be 4s into the future while it possesses a rudder shift shorter than that while capable of dropping its speed at the drop of a hat. Oh, and you can't make minor adjustments because your bombers are locked into position once they've entered the no-command circle.

 

Then it's a 1-minute trip back to the carrier, 10-30s servicing time, depending on the CV, then going back to the battlefield to look for more prey- All in all, the CV can attack once every two minutes, which means it only has 10 attempts to do damage. AA and dogfighting not included; both of which cut down your firepower dramatically.

 

---

 

Meanwhile, you just need to wiggle around in a DD to dodge something that only comes so rarely. No different from dodging shell fire. Heck, you can even use a smokescreen.

 

And of course, you have zero CV plays, so you wouldn't understand the mechanics behind it and why it's painful to use. Great.

 

You see, CVs aren't just a point-and-click affair. No- That's what potatoes do. Every decent CV player uses manual drops- That means lining the bombers up to actually guarantee hits because auto-drops can't hit anything short of an ignorant target. That means maneuvering bombers constantly- It's more stressful than you think. Even more-so because RNG is literally your plane's HP and drop damage (For dive bombers)

 

How about... Playing CVs first before complaining or suggesting silly nerfs that are clearly formulated from your anecdotes that do not represent the server, the other players or the meta.

 

---

 

If you don't want to read:

 

Git gud.

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Dear OP,

 

Manual cross dropping torps on a small, fast, and very agile ship like a DD is not as easy it looks. Takes lots of practice to get it just right. Kudos to the CV drivers who can do this consistently.

 

The better CV drivers will first drop one TB behind you, This will force you to run in a straight line, while he can now drop the other TB on a straight running ship. You either take the risk to maneuver into the torps behind you, or risk the one on your side. Smart DD players will just brake hard and hope for the best.

Edited by Bunda369

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The rock-paper-scissors system in this game doesn't work like that. It's more like this :

 

BB > CA > DD > BB

CV > BB, CA, DD, but also BB, CA, DD > CV.

 

If a CV is able to put constant pressure on you, that means you are badly out of position, or trying to do something stupid like hunting enemy CV alone. Ask for air cover from your own CV or CA when you're trying to push. Don't try your luck by going in yourself.

 

 

Oh look, a guy who never played a carrier complaining about carriers. Why am I not surprised.

 

I played them in beta friend. Looks like your argument just got...torpedoed YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. So yeah, I understand that carriers are boring and crap to play, thus I can't understand why people subject themselves to it. I also understand that they're crap to play against. I wish I'd gone to the hassle of enabling replays so I could post it. I had 2 carriers focusing me the entire game, I managed to dodge their torp drops only by ignoring everything I was fighting and just concentrating on my positioning relative to their squadrons but they still whittled me down with their bombers. I had 3k health left by the time they had 3 ships, a BB and their 2 carriers. Finally spot a carrier and finally get to start giving him a repair bill when he launches his torp squadrons, i turn away but since I had to get to like 10km to spot him the flight time is so short I don't exactly have time to get and keep bow or stern facing them. So he launches at under 1km and that's it. No escape from him reaching out to touch me all game, no counter to his planes, and no opportunity to even put him down for it.

 

 

The idea is to be in advance of the fleet while still being within support range.

 

If you're farther than 7km your nearest ally, then you very much deserve to get bombed because unsupported DDs are literally the most viable target for CVs given their lower AA rating and their general "Lone wolf attitude"- Excellent for dealing damage without taking much losses.

 

There is strength in numbers. Stray too far and it's an invitation to die. Stick too close and you won't benefit the team.

 

 

You failed to mention that the difference in percentages between the ship classes I've played is less than 1%- Oh, and let's see... As of this moment, carriers are literally 3rd in my ships played. Great analysis on your part.

 

You realize it takes 4 seconds for air-dropped torpedoes to arm, right? Great.

Guess the rudder shift time for DDs. Let's not forget the speed of DDs- Also taking into account acceleration and deceleration.

Without TA the torps can only go 35kt- Guess how many DDs go past that?

WIth TA, you get 40kt torps but you need to drop further because the 4s arming time is fixed.

 

Basically, you need to predict a point where the DD will be 4s into the future while it possesses a rudder shift shorter than that while capable of dropping its speed at the drop of a hat. Oh, and you can't make minor adjustments because your bombers are locked into position once they've entered the no-command circle.

 

Then it's a 1-minute trip back to the carrier, 10-30s servicing time, depending on the CV, then going back to the battlefield to look for more prey- All in all, the CV can attack once every two minutes, which means it only has 10 attempts to do damage. AA and dogfighting not included; both of which cut down your firepower dramatically.

 

---

 

Meanwhile, you just need to wiggle around in a DD to dodge something that only comes so rarely. No different from dodging shell fire. Heck, you can even use a smokescreen.

 

And of course, you have zero CV plays, so you wouldn't understand the mechanics behind it and why it's painful to use. Great.

 

You see, CVs aren't just a point-and-click affair. No- That's what potatoes do. Every decent CV player uses manual drops- That means lining the bombers up to actually guarantee hits because auto-drops can't hit anything short of an ignorant target. That means maneuvering bombers constantly- It's more stressful than you think. Even more-so because RNG is literally your plane's HP and drop damage (For dive bombers)

 

How about... Playing CVs first before complaining or suggesting silly nerfs that are clearly formulated from your anecdotes that do not represent the server, the other players or the meta.

 

---

 

If you don't want to read:

 

Git gud.

 

Well in the game I referenced I had support within 7km pretty much the whole time soooooooooooooooooooooooo. And they may be the most viable target but why is it right that that is so? I mean I can understand the rationale with Japanese dds since they pretty much never fire their guns so won't be spotted that way, and can invisi torp. Russian and US dds don't usually have that luxury though.

 

I said ship, not class friend. Great comprehension on your part. If you're cool with carriers why are you so sensitive that I'm pointing out you have about 30% more battles in the Zuiho than your next most played ship?

 

I didn't suggest any nerfs so you can stop being so overly protective, don't worry, I don't have the power to take away your babies! As for arming time and all that, that's cool and all, but how much of a course change do you think dds can make in the approximately 30 seconds they have before impact? Full turn left or right is not enough to get out of the way. Dropping speed still means you'll eat one and then be a sitting duck for anything trying to shoot you since you just dropped all your speed. You do realise that wiggling leaves you on the same heading right? You also realise that planes spot you through smokescreens right? Once a torp squadron gets on your side you're screwed. The only escape is to see them coming early enough then turn and run for the back of the map and hope they get distracted by another target in the meantime. Fun gameplay!

 

Git gud he says, maybe stop playing 50% of your battles divisioned up and see what happens to that winrate :^)

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As an occasional seal clubbing CV at mid tiers it can be difficult to hit DDs.

 

Why DDs? Early on the enemy group is together and hitting ships with a cleveland or other strong AA is suicide.

 

DDs that yolo are fair game. You go solo then you are easy to strike at.

 

I have sunk DDs and avoided torps as a DD.it can be done. CV play is a lot harder to manage with manual drop.

 

IJN torps have a wide gap between spread so you have more wiggle room. US with less torp squadrons at least have a tight profile of torps.

 

Remember to always turn into torp bombers and trust rng with the dive bombers. (Saipan being the only caveat to that)

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sigh. maybe you should read more about navy's history on how many DD are actually sunk by carrier based aircraft, specifically dive bombers. its not that easy to bomb small ship like dd, but if the dd is a noob, cv player can easily hit them with air drop torpedo.

 

tl;rd git gud kid.

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sigh. maybe you should read more about navy's history on how many DD are actually sunk by carrier based aircraft, specifically dive bombers. its not that easy to bomb small ship like dd, but if the dd is a noob, cv player can easily hit them with air drop torpedo.

 

tl;rd git gud kid.

 

Sigh. The history argument is just about the weakest you could have come up with.

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Sigh. The history argument is just about the weakest you could have come up with.

 

I played them in beta friend. Looks like your argument just got...torpedoed YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. So yeah, I understand that carriers are boring and crap to play, thus I can't understand why people subject themselves to it. I also understand that they're crap to play against. I wish I'd gone to the hassle of enabling replays so I could post it. I had 2 carriers focusing me the entire game, I managed to dodge their torp drops only by ignoring everything I was fighting and just concentrating on my positioning relative to their squadrons but they still whittled me down with their bombers. I had 3k health left by the time they had 3 ships, a BB and their 2 carriers. Finally spot a carrier and finally get to start giving him a repair bill when he launches his torp squadrons, i turn away but since I had to get to like 10km to spot him the flight time is so short I don't exactly have time to get and keep bow or stern facing them. So he launches at under 1km and that's it. No escape from him reaching out to touch me all game, no counter to his planes, and no opportunity to even put him down for it.

 

Considering that you only played 1 battle in an aircraft carrier...

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I played them in beta friend. Looks like your argument just got...torpedoed YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. So yeah, I understand that carriers are boring and crap to play, thus I can't understand why people subject themselves to it. I also understand that they're crap to play against. I wish I'd gone to the hassle of enabling replays so I could post it. I had 2 carriers focusing me the entire game, I managed to dodge their torp drops only by ignoring everything I was fighting and just concentrating on my positioning relative to their squadrons but they still whittled me down with their bombers. I had 3k health left by the time they had 3 ships, a BB and their 2 carriers. Finally spot a carrier and finally get to start giving him a repair bill when he launches his torp squadrons, i turn away but since I had to get to like 10km to spot him the flight time is so short I don't exactly have time to get and keep bow or stern facing them. So he launches at under 1km and that's it. No escape from him reaching out to touch me all game, no counter to his planes, and no opportunity to even put him down for it.

 

Haha I see, I apologize for missing that. You played a carrier in beta alright. ONE single battle. CV has already gone through countless changes since then, and they have been nerfed to the ground. I don't see how a single game in beta can imply that you knew how to play CV and say that it's easy to drop a DD.

 

Personally, I don't like CV gameplay that much either. But I still play it because by playing all ships, I can understand the strength and weakness of each class. It makes me able to find ways to counter them regardless of what ship I'm playing. Thanks to that, I never had any real problems with CV. Not to mention it also prevents me from making biased judgement or opinions against a class. 

 

Again, do not put yourself in a situation where you're alone and receives no support. Don't bother trying to hunt enemy CVs, most of the time it's more of a risk than reward. Your main role in a DD is to spot, cap, and hunt enemy DDs. Only go for enemy CV when it's really safe to do so.

 

You also realise that planes spot you through smokescreens right?

 

No they don't.

 

The better CV drivers will first drop one TB behind you, This will force you to run in a straight line, while he can now drop the other TB on a straight running ship. You either take the risk to maneuver into the torps behind you, or risk the one on your side. Smart DD players will just brake hard and hope for the best.

 

If you have speed boost, you can also pop it to outrun the first set of torps sideways, and it becomes easier to dodge the second drop. Or you can preemptively turn into the first drop so they can't drop you from behind. Don't do it with US torp bombers though, their gaps are too small to turn into.

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If you have speed boost, you can also pop it to outrun the first set of torps sideways, and it becomes easier to dodge the second drop. Or you can preemptively turn into the first drop so they can't drop you from behind. Don't do it with US torp bombers though, their gaps are too small to turn into.

 

this. also there's an option of slowing down and only speed up if the cv drop their torpedo to juke them. its not hard to evade torpedo, specially lots of cv player don't uses torpedo acceleration skill.

 

i also play CV but i sold my USN and only kept my IJN because USN are pain to play at tier 6,7 and 8. there's nothing more satisfying than sinking a destroyer that uses long way just to sneak and hunt carrier . :teethhappy:

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Since I doubt you'll ever listen to anything I'll say no matter how logical I argue them, seeing as CVs are my most played ship and you'll most likely just call me a point-click statpadder. That, and others already said the points I need to say. :hiding:
Edited by SZYZWY

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Considering that you only played 1 battle in an aircraft carrier...

 

TBH I thought I played a few more than that but it seems you're right. Not sure what bearing that has on anything though, I wasn't arguing I have some vast experience with carriers. Simply denying that I'd never played them. 1 battle was enough for me to know I never wanted to play them again, if I wanted RTS I'd, you know, play an RTS.

 

 

Haha I see, I apologize for missing that. You played a carrier in beta alright. ONE single battle. CV has already gone through countless changes since then, and they have been nerfed to the ground. I don't see how a single game in beta can imply that you knew how to play CV and say that it's easy to drop a DD.

 

Personally, I don't like CV gameplay that much either. But I still play it because by playing all ships, I can understand the strength and weakness of each class. It makes me able to find ways to counter them regardless of what ship I'm playing. Thanks to that, I never had any real problems with CV. Not to mention it also prevents me from making biased judgement or opinions against a class. 

 

Again, do not put yourself in a situation where you're alone and receives no support. Don't bother trying to hunt enemy CVs, most of the time it's more of a risk than reward. Your main role in a DD is to spot, cap, and hunt enemy DDs. Only go for enemy CV when it's really safe to do so.

 

 

No they don't.

 

 

If you have speed boost, you can also pop it to outrun the first set of torps sideways, and it becomes easier to dodge the second drop. Or you can preemptively turn into the first drop so they can't drop you from behind. Don't do it with US torp bombers though, their gaps are too small to turn into.

 

Goddamn you people are preemptively defensive. I wasn't the one who was trying to make it about my carrier skills or lack thereof, in fact I never even said in the original post that it was easy to drop on dds. What I said and stand by is that carriers can spot and kill dds at will. It may take a certain time investment but the carrier will get them eventually, whether it's whittled down by bombers or a lucky torp hit.

 

So if it's not safe to hunt carriers when 2 of the 3 ships left are carriers, when is it safe?

 

Sure seems like it to me. Pop smoke, stop engines, remain spotted from the air and die.

 

Haha well I'll keep that in mind, I'd love to know what ships you're using and/or torps you're playing against though. You might be right but I'm finding it hard to believe a couple of extra knots is enough to completely skate past an entire spread. In my experience you get hit by the torps in the middle of the spread so you're likely to eat the one on the end with speed boost. Which in a dd means most of your health.

 

What I find interesting is that you're all going 'RAHHH carriers are hard ur noob' and intentionally not engaging with the main point, which was what is the logic in that design choice. Unless carriers are explicitly designed as the 'safe space' class, where nothing can hurt you til the battle is already won or lost, I don't see the logic. They got their AA megabuff so now carriers can't even attack each other, cruisers and battleships don't have the camo to get close, and carriers have all the tools they need to deal with dds.

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Since I doubt you'll ever listen to anything I'll say no matter how logical I argue them, seeing as CVs are my most played ship and you'll most likely just call me a point-click statpadder. That, and others already said the points I need to say. :hiding:

 

Wow you've sure got me pegged, just look at how many times I've used the term 'point-click statpadder' in this thread alone! shrek.gif

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Goddamn you people are preemptively defensive. I wasn't the one who was trying to make it about my carrier skills or lack thereof, in fact I never even said in the original post that it was easy to drop on dds. What I said and stand by is that carriers can spot and kill dds at will. It may take a certain time investment but the carrier will get them eventually, whether it's whittled down by bombers or a lucky torp hit.

 

A carrier's worst enemy is the other carrier on the enemy team. And even with the enemy carrier not doing its job, another enemy it has to deal with is plain player awareness of its planes. Then there's AA. Spotting for a CV is literally sacrificing your plane squadron that gives no personal reward. If they are spotting a DD with a fighter plane, that's one less fighter plane your team's carrier has to deal with. If he's using a bomber plane to spot, then that's less damage that would've been inflicted potentially to your team. Now for killing at will, you yourself know it's not the case with "whether it's whittled down by bombers or a lucky torp hit". A maneuvering DD aware of torpedo bombers will only be hit if the carrier is "lucky". A carrier can theoretically make a perfect drop on a DD but a DD can also theoretically perfectly dodge it. Now practically, the DD isn't always able to make a perfect maneuver to dodge, and the CV isn't always able to make a perfect drop. Not to mention of course, if the carrier fails to get "lucky" with the drop against an aware and maneuvering DD, that's 0 gain for the carrier and he has to wait like 2 min to even get another opportunity to which the target DD can reposition.

 

So if it's not safe to hunt carriers when 2 of the 3 ships left are carriers, when is it safe?

 

It's the idea you want to hunt carriers in the first place. Ideally, the CV sits in the back of the fleet as well. So end-game situation, the moment most of the fleet dies, the CV is a sitting duck when spotted. Sure it can defend itself from one ship only if its alone, and only if it does get to hit that said ship. A missed drop means like a ~1 min leeway for said ship to kill the CV unhindered by the squadron that just missed. The game is meant to be played via objectives anyway which mainly means capturing areas to increase points and DDs do that well enough.

 

Sure seems like it to me. Pop smoke, stop engines, remain spotted from the air and die.

 

If you don't turn off your AA while in smoke then yeah you get spotted(sometimes). And don't forget the 2 sec for smoke to take place. And don't just stop, if a CV is hunting you, they'll just torp the area you were last seen, so either go 1/4 speed or reverse a bit. If they still hit you, then that CV deserves a compliment because it's a gamble to hit something invisible inside smoke without knowing internal movement.

 

Haha well I'll keep that in mind, I'd love to know what ships you're using and/or torps you're playing against though. You might be right but I'm finding it hard to believe a couple of extra knots is enough to completely skate past an entire spread. In my experience you get hit by the torps in the middle of the spread so you're likely to eat the one on the end with speed boost. Which in a dd means most of your health.

 

Referring to what Stein said, it takes ~4 seconds to "make a drop". There's a telling sign when the TB plane is making a drop and you'd have to maneuver for it the moment you see it rather than torps landing in the water. So if the CV is "predicting" where you'll be 4 seconds earlier, you just have to make a drastic enough change once you see the TB bombing run and it'll either all miss, or fail to rearm in time. It's not as doable in cruisers and battleships, but definitely dodge-able by DDs. So in that time frame, those extra knots and change in bearing mean quite a lot.

 

What I find interesting is that you're all going 'RAHHH carriers are hard ur noob' and intentionally not engaging with the main point, which was what is the logic in that design choice. Unless carriers are explicitly designed as the 'safe space' class, where nothing can hurt you til the battle is already won or lost, I don't see the logic. They got their AA megabuff so now carriers can't even attack each other, cruisers and battleships don't have the camo to get close, and carriers have all the tools they need to deal with dds.

 

First off, this was brought upon by your comments that dropping on a DD is 'easy'(no this wasn't in your original post, it was in your following posts implying there's nothing can be done). Well, yeah, it really is easy when the DD doesn't maneuver right. And having only the perspective of the DD driver is of course gonna give a really sizable amount of bias on these things. Tbh the AA megabuff you speak of is only for T8-T10 and it's more of a nerf to carriers who play their bombers more because they won't be able to kill their worst enemy. Not like you'd fear the fighter loadouts except for spotting, they aren't gonna torp you anytime soon. That and you even glossed over the AA buffs, plane reworks and stuff that come in as a general nerf to them. And no, cruisers and battleships don't NEED the camo to get close as the way to kill a CV isn't sneaking up on them but literally just making them waste their strikes and all their planes until they're (either permanently or temporarily) defenseless, either by their loss, or their fleet's loss.

 

And as a side comment... why are you so hell bent on "I need to kill the CV" anyway.

It goes: "I want to kill the CV in a DD but the CV won't let me."

 

 

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[BLUMR]
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Goddamn you people are preemptively defensive. I wasn't the one who was trying to make it about my carrier skills or lack thereof, in fact I never even said in the original post that it was easy to drop on dds. What I said and stand by is that carriers can spot and kill dds at will. It may take a certain time investment but the carrier will get them eventually, whether it's whittled down by bombers or a lucky torp hit.

 

If a CV players is investing so much time in sinking you in your DD than thats less time he is focusing on your capital ships who, generally speaking, should be a much bigger influence than you in the match. Even if he only needed to land 2 torps on you, he most likely used most of squadrons on you and it would take at least another 2mins (if not more) before his entire strike force is rearmed and in the skies. 

 

 

 What I find interesting is that you're all going 'RAHHH carriers are hard ur noob' and intentionally not engaging with the main point, which was what is the logic in that design choice. Unless carriers are explicitly designed as the 'safe space' class, where nothing can hurt you til the battle is already won or lost, I don't see the logic. They got their AA megabuff so now carriers can't even attack each other, cruisers and battleships don't have the camo to get close, and carriers have all the tools they need to deal with dds.

 

Heres the thing though, you don't need to damage the carrier to hamper its ability to deal damage in the match. Don't forget that unlike the other 3 classes, CVs have "ammo" in form of their attack aircraft, shoot them all down and all you have left is an bulky AA platform with peashooters for surface defense.

Like others have said, don't stray too far from your team and run back to your AA bubble if you honestly think you'll be focused by the CV, heck, if you're playing the USN DDs then you even got the Defensive Fire ablitiy to buy yourself an extra ~30secs. 

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