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Loshirai14

Nerf Invisi-Firing in Open Watersnerf

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Make ships that are shooting from invisibility while in open waters be detected after about 4-5 salvos and give about 5 secs of detecion time. If they start shooting while detected, the time would increase by 2 sec. This would let battleships be able to react since they dont have the speed to chase down dds. At least give them a chance to shooot.

 

 

- Seems like i made a mistake on the title

Edited by Loshirai14

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I'm not really bothered by invisifire. I've only had about 3 games where i was invisifired. It's just a really weird mechanic. Even fisherman boat can be detected just with their night lamps, yet a huge ship continuously shooting with flashes, smoke and all cant. 

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what? no one gonna admit that invisi-firing is exploit system hole?

I, personally think that invisifire thing SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE in the first place, except from within smoke, behind island.

 

imagine tier 8-10 CA can do this stuff.... super crazy...

and even more crazy that developer team paid no mind to this...

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what? no one gonna admit that invisi-firing is exploit system hole?

I, personally think that invisifire thing SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE in the first place, except from within smoke, behind island.

 

imagine tier 8-10 CA can do this stuff.... super crazy...

and even more crazy that developer team paid no mind to this...

It's an exploit. Everyone knows that. 

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Because clearly, DD 120-139mm guns cause trouble for battleships with 300mm+ belts, 100mm decks and over 50k HP by setting them on fire with shells with less than 9% fire chance and an alpha of less than 700 each salvo.

 

Whatever happened to rock, paper and scissors gameplay with DDs being BBs being prey? If the DD needs at least 4 mins to sink a single ship, then you know that it doesn't need a nerf.

 

Comparatively, no one complains about BB salvos deleting other BBs in a mere instant.

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I think the idea of BBs being the most toughest class is being misinterpreted from "capable of taking hits" to "not supposed to take hits whatsoever from anywhere".

Edited by Calderhunt

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1st, are there any idiot DD try to sink BB with sheer gun alone? (finishing low health enemy is other thing) IMO even US/RUDD were meant to harass enemy with their gun and speed, spared out damage all over rather focus on sinking one ship. (and of cause, killing enemy IJNDD)

 

2nd, being shot over and over, set on fire over and over without ability to see who firing or to shoot back is good thing than?

 

so...

okay, deal with it. =w='a

Edited by PGM991

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BB captains are always the most vocal.

 

1st, are there any idiot DD try to sink BB with sheer gun alone? IMO even US/RUDD were meant to harass enemy with their gun and speed, spared out damage all over rather focus on sinking one ship. (and of cause, killing enemy IJNDD)

 

2nd, being shot over and over, set on fire over and over without ability to see who firing or to shoot back is good thing than?

 

so...

okay, deal with it. =w='a

 

Yes, because clearly, torpedoes can be fired directly from the rear without turning sharply and need less than a minute to reach their intended target from invisifire range.

Of course, the BB will sail in a straight line into those 500m detection torpedoes that reload faster than Gearing guns.

 

Of course.

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Then have you considered the following factors :-

(1) That stealth fire requires a spotter most of the time to help the gunship DD see - ships that most of the time you can also see and shoot them down?

(2) That the enemy DD can only safely set up a stealth fire smokescreen when it confirms that the area is clear of cruisers, DDs and CV bombers from your side - while you are alone?

 

(3) That the possibility of you trying to communicate with your teammates first (yes, even though communication is not our strongest thing in ASIA, but no harm trying) to see if they can sort the DD out for you?

(4) That you can also just sail away from the smoke screen and go somewhere else to fly some kites or sink some other ships first before going through the area?

I'm not denying DDs have this advantage against BBs, but it's not like this advantage of stealthfiring is flawless and impenetrable.

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Then have you considered the following factors :-

 

(1) That stealth fire requires a spotter most of the time to help the gunship DD see - ships that most of the time you can also see and shoot them down?

 

(2) That the enemy DD can only safely set up a stealth fire smokescreen when it confirms that the area is clear of cruisers, DDs and CV bombers from your side - while you are alone?

 

(3) That the possibility of you trying to communicate with your teammates first (yes, even though communication is not our strongest thing in ASIA, but no harm trying) to see if they can sort the DD out for you?

 

(4) That you can also just sail away from the smoke screen and go somewhere else to fly some kites or sink some other ships first before going through the area?

 

I'm not denying DDs have this advantage against BBs, but it's not like this advantage of stealthfiring is flawless and impenetrable.

 

Invisifiring from smoke is acceptable but when they do it in plain open water. It starts to be ridiculous. These DDs even have longer range than some CA/CLs and are faster.

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Invisifiring from smoke is acceptable but when they do it in plain open water. It starts to be ridiculous. These DDs even have longer range than some CA/CLs and are faster.

 

they made it so it's impossible for VMF DD to out range CA, and for USN DD lol we can get 18km on fletcher but have fun hitting someone at that range

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Invisifiring from smoke is acceptable but when they do it in plain open water. It starts to be ridiculous. These DDs even have longer range than some CA/CLs and are faster.

 

Not really.

 

Let's take a Gnevny for example. With AFT it's roughly 14.2km firing range, and the detection radius after firing grows to around 12km. (This is a rough approximate, so anyone who owns the ship and have the correct numbers please feel free to correct me.)

 

If you as a BB are in those waters alone without any escort to close in and spot for you in that 12km detection range, you are definitely in the wrong waters.

Edited by Calderhunt

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as a player that dint came from wot, i do find the detection mechanic as plain weird, invisifire as very annoying and the presence of russian ships head tilting. Yes, invisifire is annoying but they damage your psyche more than your ship tho. Although when the battle is at late stage and contain only 3 bb vs a yacht with guns , your idea might work

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Not really.

 

Let's take a Gnevny for example. With AFT it's roughly 14.2km firing range, and the detection radius after firing grows to around 12km. (This is a rough approximate, so anyone who owns the ship and have the correct numbers please feel free to correct me.)

 

If you as a BB are in those waters alone without any escort to close in and spot for you in that 12km detection range, you are definitely in the wrong waters.

The largest map in the game is around 48x48 km. An average invisifiring gunboat has a range of 15km. An average invisifiring DD has a detectability range of 10km. The only thing that can detect them is another DD that it can't see. If you dont have any DD left, that invisifiring DD can easily reset a cap without breaking a sweat. The most valuable DD type in the current meta are gun boats since most of them can invisifire. Torpedoboat cant even compare to the damage a gunboat can reliably deal. Torpedoes are predictable and dodgeable. Gun shells from invisifiring gunboats are continuous and has a higher chance of hitting if the player is good at aiming. Fire is also another factor why invisifiring gunboats are cancer.

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Not really.

 

Let's take a Gnevny for example. With AFT it's roughly 14.2km firing range, and the detection radius after firing grows to around 12km. (This is a rough approximate, so anyone who owns the ship and have the correct numbers please feel free to correct me.)

 

If you as a BB are in those waters alone without any escort to close in and spot for you in that 12km detection range, you are definitely in the wrong waters.

 

Without CE 1.4 km invisifire window according to http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/41343-undetectable-destroyer-firing-capabilities-excel-table/ 

 

CE boost this to 3km on the Gnevny

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The largest map in the game is around 48x48 km. An average invisifiring gunboat has a range of 15km. An average invisifiring DD has a detectability range of 10km. The only thing that can detect them is another DD that it can't see. If you dont have any DD left, that invisifiring DD can easily reset a cap without breaking a sweat. The most valuable DD type in the current meta are gun boats since most of them can invisifire. Torpedoboat cant even compare to the damage a gunboat can reliably deal. Torpedoes are predictable and dodgeable. Gun shells from invisifiring gunboats are continuous and has a higher chance of hitting if the player is good at aiming. Fire is also another factor why invisifiring gunboats are cancer.

"The largest map in the game is around 48x48 km. An average invisifiring gunboat has a range of 15km. An average invisifiring DD has a detectability range of 10km."

 

OK, taking account into that 10km detection range AFTER them firing, it's not like they are invisible - as long as someone gets in range to spot them, an exposed DD would be forced to stop that kind of invisible harassment.

 

"The only thing that can detect them is another DD that it can't see."

 

Lulwut? Only?

 

That's like saying your cruisers are very blind not to be able to see it. Very, very blind.

 

Interestingly enough, all it takes is one spot from ANYONE, even WITHOUT themselves in stealth, and that invisible firing window will go away. But I suppose it's so difficult to pull that off because "oh so uberpowderful cause far range 130mm hitting mah precious oversized boat".

 

I'm pretty sure you know the facts very well, but then again, you're the guy who thinks the BB taking 130mm invisible hits is ridiculous. So it probably makes more sense to you that the cruisers could afford not risk to take any of those invisible hits anyway just to get in range of that 12km detection radius of a Gnevny, right?

 

"If you dont have any DD left, that invisifiring DD can easily reset a cap without breaking a sweat. The most valuable DD type in the current meta are gun boats since most of them can invisifire. Torpedoboat cant even compare to the damage a gunboat can reliably deal. Torpedoes are predictable and dodgeable. Gun shells from invisifiring gunboats are continuous and has a higher chance of hitting if the player is good at aiming. Fire is also another factor why invisifiring gunboats are cancer."

 

What you've said here, is mostly only as true and "valuable" as you think, under two very specific conditions.

 

When you are the lone BB going into the open of uncharted waters and/or capping alone because all your cruisers have failed to catch up with your BB.

 

Also how many shells (not to their maximum damage listed because it never hits that much unless you penetrate) does it take to reach the damage capacity of a torpedo? How much time is needed for the DD to be able to sit there safely to shoot at you before it does the damage of 1 torpedo?

 

And in that very set amount of time, how long does it take for you to communicate and type out there is a DD harassing you with gunfire, while pulling yourself away to safety?

 

 

Without CE 1.4 km invisifire window according to http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/41343-undetectable-destroyer-firing-capabilities-excel-table/ 

 

CE boost this to 3km on the Gnevny

 

Thanks for the clarification and the link - the chart helped a lot to give us a better perception on how much of a window would that allow for all DDs in the list to pull off the advantage.

 

So that means in case of the Gnevny, that's roughly 12.8km detection radius without CE after firing with a 10pt captain, and 11km detection radius with CE after firing with a 15pt captain.

 

In other words, it takes a certain amount of grind to even get there. We're talking the amount of low-damage shell hits per match to reach the level of a 15pt captain Minekaze, except for huge XP torpedoes they only got 130mm with some firing window.

 

Some firing window that people find it justifiable to complain because they don't realize the limit of that advantage.

Edited by Calderhunt

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"The largest map in the game is around 48x48 km. An average invisifiring gunboat has a range of 15km. An average invisifiring DD has a detectability range of 10km."

 

OK, taking account into that 10km detection range AFTER them firing, it's not like they are invisible - as long as someone gets in range to spot them, an exposed DD would be forced to stop that kind of invisible harassment.

 

"The only thing that can detect them is another DD that it can't see."

 

Lulwut? Only?

 

That's like saying your cruisers are very blind not to be able to see it. Very, very blind.

 

Interestingly enough, all it takes is one spot from ANYONE, even WITHOUT themselves in stealth, and that invisible firing window will go away. But I suppose it's so difficult to pull that off because "oh so uberpowderful cause far range 130mm hitting mah precious oversized boat".

 

I'm pretty sure you know that fact very well, but then again, you're the guy who thinks the BB taking 130mm invisible hits is ridiculous. So it probably makes more sense to you that the cruisers could afford not risk to take any of those invisible hits anyway just to get in range of that 12km detection radius of a Gnevny, right?

 

"If you dont have any DD left, that invisifiring DD can easily reset a cap without breaking a sweat. The most valuable DD type in the current meta are gun boats since most of them can invisifire. Torpedoboat cant even compare to the damage a gunboat can reliably deal. Torpedoes are predictable and dodgeable. Gun shells from invisifiring gunboats are continuous and has a higher chance of hitting if the player is good at aiming. Fire is also another factor why invisifiring gunboats are cancer."

 

What you've said here, is mostly only as true and "valuable" as you think, under two very specific conditions.

 

When you are the lone BB going into the open of uncharted waters and/or capping alone because all your cruisers have failed to catch up with your BB.

 

Also how many shells (not to their maximum damage listed because it never hits that much unless you penetrate) does it take to reach the damage capacity of a torpedo? How much time is needed for the DD to be able to sit there safely to shoot at you before it does the damage of 1 torpedo?

 

And in that very set amount of time, how long does it take for you to communicate and type out there is a DD harassing you with gunfire, while pulling yourself away to safety?

 

 

Thanks for the clarification and the link - the chart helped a lot to give us a better perception on how much of a window would that allow for all DDs in the list to pull off the advantage.

 

So that means in case of the Gnevny, that's roughly 12.8km detection radius without CE after firing with a 10pt captain, and 11km detection radius with CE after firing with a 15pt captain.

 

In other words, it takes a certain amount of grind to even get there. We're talking the amount of low-damage shell hits per match to reach the level of a 15pt captain Minekaze, except for huge XP torpedoes they only got 130mm with some firing window.

 

Some firing window that people find it justifiable to complain because they don't realize the limit of that advantage.

 

If you get detected by a cruiser while invisifiring, that means tunnel vision got to you. If a gunboat knows what it's doing and has map awareness, no cuiser can detect it unless that cruiser has hydro or radar.

 

Torpedoes dont always hit, specially when your target knows how to dodge or your torps was detected on its way. How many salvos and fires can a gunboat dish out while the topedo boat is still waiting for the reload. High tier torpedo boats have a reloading time of at least a minute or two. 

 

 

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Invisifire is not a problem, just nerf Zao :D And we are fine.

 

DDs can do invisifire but that is only useful vs super noobs, take usn DDs, they wont hit anything at max range if not a battleship, and even in battleship you can evade most of them, they will be hitting mostly your rear and soon it will be damage saturated modules and they wont get much out of it anymore. And if the DD captain is ripple firing, good luck to him hitting anything at all at max range. For russian DDs, captains who take CE for russian DDs dont know how to play anyway (advanced apologies). For the polish ones, the shells are too floaty even to use AFT, but she can do invisifiring, which is often not very useful, you don't rely on invisifiring on gunboats. You stop shooting to go in and out of detection.

 

And how do they nerf invisifire, increase penalty range? nerf AFT again? CAs at very high tier can do invisifire, but there should be your team's DDs between you and them, they will spot the ships. Also there are CVs for spotting.

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