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FLAKP4NZER

3/1/1 Ryujo is fun. so why the hate?

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its my first time stepping in the Ryujo with this setup (I got enough free exp to get the setup) and my first two games is very very good. so I would like to gather some bitter comments so I could assess what I can do in the future just in case.

 

if youre gonna ask what my two games consists, my first game is against a Saipan and a Ryujo with 1/2/2 loadout, struggled in Saipan fighters but bait-strafe and swarm tactics works out

 

my second game is against Independence. GG ez against him

Edited by FLAKP4NZER

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Independence is a POS ship. Even if you had a 1/2/2 setup, you would still own him coz most Indy players are on the stock loadout. I play my Indy with a strike loadout, and it's usually a cat and mouse game with any Ryujo setup in that case.

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3/1/1 RJ is like 3rd in my "viable to run AS loadouts". But then again, that ranking for me only includes 3 as other AS loadouts are just not worth it. XD

 

Yes it's definitely fun. It's the only ship for now which I ran a fighter loadout since I mostly play strike. Made me appreciate captains who do use a fighter loadout.

 

As for Independence, even if you do have a rather massive advantage against it in a lot of loadouts, at least, don't underestimate it. A stock loadout independence still has a better damage potential than you, so not letting up on the air cover is best.

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Super Tester
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Ryujo is also on my list of "CVs that can use AS loadout", which also contains the Taiho and Hakuryu.

 

3 fighters at T6 is great for shutting down enemies, and 1 TB + DB at T6 is still decent-ish damage. A good AS captain is valuable.

 

However, do not run AS USN unless you are super sure of wiping the sky clean.

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Super Tester
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I need more Clear Sky medals, so I'd rather have people play strike loadouts on any CV.

Playing against an AS Ryuujou with my AS Independence is like... actually having to make an effort for that medal... where's the fun in tha-... oh wait.

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Well..both counter-parts are important .. AS Loadouts prevents Strike CV's while fighting also with other AS CV's Strike CV's can prevent AS CV's on some cases also Strike CV's deals enough damage and pretty much their job is kill the stragglers and change the focus of the captains. how? Well if you played quite long enough you might notice some captains just focuses on dodging torps but in the end gets sunk or gets 1/2 of their life gone by artillery fire that is pretty much their job and kill AS CVs same thing with Strike CV to Strike CV you get what i mean.

Edited by Kaneko3003

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what? you dont like/no idea how to do cross dropping to sink DDs? You like to cancel out the opponent CV while gimping out your own damage potential? You like to depend on your 11 random unknown teammates to win their other 11 people to win the entire match? Ah sure if that's your liking go ahead 

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Why? Because as a US CV player, it's too easy. You just click and even if almost two of your fighters squadron die. 5 planes will beat the indy's plane. I raged so much in the indi because of how cheap it is for a Ryujo to counter any US CV. 

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what? you dont like/no idea how to do cross dropping to sink DDs? You like to cancel out the opponent CV while gimping out your own damage potential? You like to depend on your 11 random unknown teammates to win their other 11 people to win the entire match? Ah sure if that's your liking go ahead 

 

actually im doing that stuff youre talking about in almost 2 years in my Zuiho 1/2/1, im doing a 3/1/1 approach in the Ryujo to get a different taste about it

 

but for me, having a single TB and a single DB is quite more challenging than doing a 1/2/2 overkill

Edited by FLAKP4NZER

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actually im doing that stuff youre talking about in almost 2 years in my Zuiho 1/2/1, im doing a 3/1/1 approach in the Ryujo to get a different taste about it

 

but for me, having a single TB and a single DB is quite more challenging than doing a 1/2/2 overkill

 

Id say that strike loadouts are never overkill. Strike loadouts must be able to deal with capital ships of the same tier to be considered effective in my books (barring abnormally high AA like the Gneis and the NC).

 

I understand the allure of team support and saving them (tried AS loadout a few times) but they often potato and I cannot carry them with an AS loadout. I've been burned before and thus I take strike in random battles for the express purpose of winning.

 

How can my team potato? They can fail to kill that lone DD that my fighters are spotting even if they get pinged. I'd rather "do it myself" when it comes to situations like this. Another example would be a focused strike on a BB, taking off some 70% or more of its HP. Thats at least 4 citadel equivalents in the bag.

Edited by stratmania

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I find it questionable when people find Air Superiority gameplay fun.

The only 2 things you do are negating enemy CV's influence on the battle (so it's 1 for 1 trade), and spotting DD. Both of them means you are relying on your team to win the game, not very reliable I'd say.

 

IMO playing strike is more skill-dependent, if you are good enough to outdo enemy CV by going for strategic targets (especially DD hunt since IJN CV have 2 TB), the chance of actually winning is higher than going AS (since it's 1 trade for multiple), and let's not forget higher reward from damage. Plane kills give little to nothing even if you kill 50+ planes.

 

Ofcourse if you aren't good at strikes, then Air Superiority might give you better result, but I find that [content removed] for gameplay, it's almost like personal attack. Surface ships (esp tier7+) already have way too much AA to defend themselves already.

 

Derogatory. Post edited.

 

~amade

Edited by amade

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Super Tester
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Both of them means you are relying on your team to win the game, not very reliable I'd say.

 

Meanwhile my Bogue is sitting at 58% wr and my Independence at 71%

Lucky at cards, unlucky in love... I guess.

 

I do agree though that AS setups at or above tier VII are bad, not because ships can defend themselves (They can't), but because the number of high range, high damage AA guns makes it way too easy for Strike CVs to sit inside the AA bubble provided by their team and thus rendering any advantage from AS setups useless.

 

And thus begins the true issue of AS setups pretty much taking both CVs out of the game unless the Strike CV somehow manages to get past the AS CV's fighters or gets impatient and then watches his bombers melt within seconds... usually followed by the CV player leaving the battle early.

Edited by Retia

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I find it questionable when people find Air Superiority gameplay fun.

The only 2 things you do are negating enemy CV's influence on the battle (so it's 1 for 1 trade), and spotting DD. Both of them means you are relying on your team to win the game, not very reliable I'd say.

 

IMO playing strike is more skill-dependent, if you are good enough to outdo enemy CV by going for strategic targets (especially DD hunt since IJN CV have 2 TB), the chance of actually winning is higher than going AS (since it's 1 trade for multiple), and let's not forget higher reward from damage. Plane kills give little to nothing even if you kill 50+ planes.

 

Ofcourse if you aren't good at strikes, then Air Superiority might give you better result, but I find that canc*rous for gameplay, it's almost like personal attack. Surface ships (esp tier7+) already have way too much AA to defend themselves already.

 

I find it opposite, since having more TB's and DB's means if you cant sink a ship with a one or two squadrons, make your all squadrons sink one ship.

 

while dueling out in the sky is the most challenging, playing mind games with enemy AS players specially people using US AS CV's and at the same time while keeping them busy playing dogfight I could harass and sink a ship with one TB/DB  

Edited by FLAKP4NZER

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I find it opposite, since having more TB's and DB's means if you cant sink a ship with a one or two squadrons, make your all squadrons sink one ship.

 

while dueling out in the sky is the most challenging, playing mind games with enemy AS players specially people using US AS CV's and at the same time while keeping them busy playing dogfight I could harass and sink a ship with one TB/DB  

 

You can do both in a strike setup that's not USN CV tier5-8. Having 1 Fighter is more challenging than say, having 3, if you were actually looking for challenge.

There's no harm in having more Bombers, the more you have the faster and the more ships you can sink, and the more enemy ships you sink the better chance your team has at winning. Just because you can't 1-shot enemy ship with 4 bombers doesn't mean it's no better than having 2 bombers, attrition damage should not be discounted.

 

I guess you still hold that personal enjoyment in Fighter combat, and that my argument won't change your view. But I'm just saying all these to prove that Your choice of CV gameplay may not be the most effective way of winning the battle. Sure your team will be grateful when you keep enemy bombers away, but will they be able to win the match for you or not is another story. 

 

Personally I find bombing ships and setting up attack runs more fun (while also effective and rewarding) than playing cat and mouse with enemy planes, it's down to player mentality I guess. Just my point of view why 3/1/1 isn't fun in contrast to your opinion.

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after reading some of your comments. probably most of you is not right after all... but it requires a lot of attention specially if your enemy is one tier higher than you and also plays AS

and also I need to take care of my TB since it cant go deep into enemy AA bubble if the target is tier 6-7

btw my escort is a Ranger with 2/1/2 I guess, I didnt pay attention to him properly

Edited by FLAKP4NZER

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tbf, in this game, doing damage is the way to go most of the time.

 

But AS users shouldn't be hated for supporting the team. The usual comment is that they are faced with another CV on the enemy team which would probably have better damage potential for not running AS and the verdict that the AS is thus detrimental to the team. But if the AS CV is successful, then your team will have all the perks of having CV support, air cover and scouting and a shut down enemy CV.

 

The same goes when playing with a strike loadout in your CV. Would you gimp your team by playing strike and letting the enemy CV give his team scouting and air superiority? Of course, it also goes that if the Strike CV is successful then his damage would just trump whatever the enemy CV has to offer. Both are just much more apparent using USN CVs.

 

Both are viable ways to win. One is better than the other, situational to the match. All depends on your take on your playstyle. Competent AS CV captains tend to trust their team more and I will have to respect that.

 

As someone who primarily plays strike, a competent fighter loadout captain is the last thing I want to face. And as someone who has played his share of fighter loadouts, a competent strike captain is also someone I would not like to face. But when I face someone with the same loadout, multiple aspects such as Air Superiority, Effective strikes, Timely scouting, Influencing both my team and enemy team's flow of ships will decide the outcome against the enemy CV which can ultimately decide if the match is a loss or a win.

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haha , i change the topic, 012 independence is fun, so why the hate.

 

 

Yes it's fun. But it does have troubles against 311 RJs who have 1 fighter squadron for every bomber squadron you have. If the skill gap is high between the two, then yes, it'd be much better to run strike than balanced. But the balanced loadout allows more flexibility and can actually take on 2 IJN FT squadrons of the same tier. Not to mention, it's not like you're losing that much damage potential with 1 less dive bomber, as your DoT stacking will most likely come from a flooding-DCP-fire combo or vice-versa.

 

Edit: Not like I'm telling you to switch, just saying 111 is more flexible in most regards. Do continue 012 if that's comfortable for you. :honoring:

 

Edited by SZYZWY

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