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PGM991

why WoWs start with USN & IJN?

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well, it's just curiosity.

when this game launch, the first two complete branch is USN and IJN right?

 

so I wonder.... why pick these two country first?

 

why not... like... Russia and German? or any other pair of country?

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Super Tester
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well, it's just curiosity.

when this game launch, the first two complete branch is USN and IJN right?

 

so I wonder.... why pick these two country first?

 

why not... like... Russia and German? or any other pair of country?

 

Cause when those were introduced, there were only USN and IJN.

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Alpha Tester
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Because IJN vs USN is the major naval battle in the world war 2

While SN is non existent

RN busy managing their colonial teritory thus making more light cruiser instead

And KM still Struggle with their Air and Naval Superiority even against RN

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I think the answer to that question is because of the pacific theater of world war 2

 

IJN and USN mainly use ships , there are submarines but mainly the battle are by warships

there are many battles and changing of lines in the south east asian region because of naval warfare

 

compared to

 

RN, USSR and Germany

the battle in the Atlantic theater is mostly defense purposes and german has ships but they use alot of submarines which aren't implemented in the game

USSR and the RN are mainly defending and escorting transport ships

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As much as I whinge about not having RN in the game yet, I think it made a lot of sense to start with USN & IJN

 

There was far more fleet level action in the pacific in WWII than anywhere else (albeit mostly from carriers).

In real terms the RN had no fleet level opposition for their capital ships, it was all raiders and ASW.

Their strongest surface based opponent in the European sphere was probably Italy.  The Germans never had more than 3 capital ships they could field at once.

 

If the focus was on WWI that would be a different matter.  But by Tier 5 WWI is history.

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As much as I whinge about not having RN in the game yet, I think it made a lot of sense to start with USN & IJN

 

There was far more fleet level action in the pacific in WWII than anywhere else (albeit mostly from carriers).

In real terms the RN had no fleet level opposition for their capital ships, it was all raiders and ASW.

Their strongest surface based opponent in the European sphere was probably Italy.  The Germans never had more than 3 capital ships they could field at once.

 

If the focus was on WWI that would be a different matter.  But by Tier 5 WWI is history.

 

Sorry, but for the fleet action we also have to inlcude all the surface ships as they fought most of the seperate ingagements.  The CV's have the fame from WWII, but the day to day heavy lifting went to Crusiers and Destroyers from both Nations.

Also, for WWI on our tech trees, a lot of our capital ships where designed during and/or started construction during WWI or shortly after during the Peace Confrenence. 

But as to why IJN and USN first?

They both have complete tech trees with all classes with the least amount of paper ships. That's the most likely reason, along with the most number of famous ships with younger players than other nations

 

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Super Tester
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Because IJN and USN had the biggest naval action in WW2 plus the plethora of ship designs that existed and made it to construction

 

WAY much more easier to develop a tech tree as opposed to RN, KM and RU navies

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Sorry, but for the fleet action we also have to inlcude all the surface ships as they fought most of the seperate ingagements.  The CV's have the fame from WWII, but the day to day heavy lifting went to Crusiers and Destroyers from both Nations.

 

Granted, but what did that heavy lifting consist of?

The Axis screening forces in the European theatre didn't go out seeking to engage the RN.  And without the heavy units to back them up it would have been insane to try.

The Battle of the Atlantic was about the Germans trying to disrupt the British supply lines using subs and raiders, while avoiding the RN, and the RN trying to prevent this.

 

In the Pacific on the other hand, you had two significant navies actually trying to destroy each other.

 

 

Also, for WWI on our tech trees, a lot of our capital ships where designed during and/or started construction during WWI or shortly after during the Peace Confrenence.

 

Producing a bunch of ships that were too late for WWI and obsolete by WWII....

 

 

But as to why IJN and USN first?

They both have complete tech trees with all classes with the least amount of paper ships. That's the most likely reason, along with the most number of famous ships with younger players than other nations

 

Quite true.

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I see it to appeal to the US market. Previous big hit in the naval battle genre also included US Navy and Nihon Kaigun so it's reasonable that WG start with them too

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I like that we started with USN + IJN, to not do so would have been a mis-play.

 

The most epic (naval) battles of WW2 were undoubtedly fought in the Pacific, WG showed courage by not pandering to the masses and introducing US + a euro navy (I guess RN or KM) first.

 

 

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Super Tester
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Japan's & US' Navy saw a lot of naval combat during the Pacific War. Well, for Japan since first Sino-Japanese War & Russo-Japanese War (notably Battle of Tsushima).

 

Although in Atlantic was purely convey escorts & submarine hunting, with little action hunting few German Capital Ships. So.... why not Japan & US first?

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From a game design perspective, there are more than enough USN and IJN ships to provide a variety in order to start off with the development of the game (designing of general gameplay, mechanics, and which ships go to which tier, balancing etc.), and also they provide enough historical and combat records to refer to (though historical accuracy is on another matter).


In comparison, Russian and German ships have way less in both fields, hence it is much more difficult to start from them.

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Both nations have a complete set of ship classes.

 

Carriers, cruisers of different ships and sizes, destroyers and battleships,

 

They are also the most prominent combatants in the sea during WWII.

 

It would make little sense to start with fleets that never went past the blueprint stage or were largely inactive during the war.

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actually its kinda like a first impression kind of thing. we all know they release trees slowly so they made sure the first 2 nations have an impact and/or is actually complete with the least paper ships. imagine if rn and german are the ones released 1st, then we'll go playin around with a forced german cv line while the american playerbase will stalk the forums and rant. or if the soviet got first we all be wondering what is a khabarovosk and why is it labeled the fastest dd. oh and yamato vs montana is a huge selling point.

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IJN and USN are ephitomy of Naval warfare.

 

And they very close to equal to each other, In total strenght and in Individual ships

At start of conflict IJN employ 11 Battleship, 6 Heavy Fleet Carriers, 4 Light Carrier, 18 Heavy Cruisers, 18 Light Cruiser,  63 Subs, 110 Destroyer and around 1700 Aircraft

US Pasific Fleet have 9 Battleship, 3 heavy Fleet Carriers, 13 Heavy Cruisers, 11 Light Cruiser, 51 Subs, 80 Destroyer and around 1300 Aircraft (US atlantic Fleet have similiar strenght, makin total US forcces is greater - but US have commitment on 2 ocean, Japan were not)

 

They fought 10 Big battles, involving hunderds of Warships, Millions of Sailors. 

other Naval combat in WW1 and WW2 wont even compare, to what those 2 fought

 IJN and USN were deserve to be the first tech tree, there is no doubt

 

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In the Pacific on the other hand, you had two significant navies actually trying to destroy each other.

 

 

Up to 1942, perhaps. Thereafter, despite their increasing numerical and technological superiority, the USN did not actively seek out a fleet engagement. The USN's main strike forces were tasked with protecting their invasion fleets as a priority. Even the Battle of the Philippine Sea was a defensive battle from the point of the USN, and their fleet admiral, Admiral Spruance, was at that time heavily criticized for this. His staff wanted to go on the offensive and be aggressive, but he had orders to protect the invasion fleet as a priority. He was, nonetheless, supported in this decision by his superiors.

 

Only a few months later, the bull headed aggressiveness of Admiral Halsey almost cost the USN their invasion fleet at the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Halsey decided that a Mahanian fleet engagement with the useless remnants of the IJN carriers was the way any upstanding cowboy USN admiral should go. Only IJN mistakes prevented a strategic disaster for the US.

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Up to 1942, perhaps. Thereafter, despite their increasing numerical and technological superiority, the USN did not actively seek out a fleet engagement. The USN's main strike forces were tasked with protecting their invasion fleets as a priority. Even the Battle of the Philippine Sea was a defensive battle from the point of the USN, and their fleet admiral, Admiral Spruance, was at that time heavily criticized for this. His staff wanted to go on the offensive and be aggressive, but he had orders to protect the invasion fleet as a priority. He was, nonetheless, supported in this decision by his superiors.

 

Only a few months later, the bull headed aggressiveness of Admiral Halsey almost cost the USN their invasion fleet at the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Halsey decided that a Mahanian fleet engagement with the useless remnants of the IJN carriers was the way any upstanding cowboy USN admiral should go. Only IJN mistakes prevented a strategic disaster for the US.

 

Because naval superiority was achieved after Midway, which is in December EDIT: June 1942 (how can I forgot). Most of Kido Butai destroyed with 4 out of 6 fleet carriers sunk, and one of the surviving two ran out of air group

 

And speaking of Leyte, don discount the courage of the small DD/DE captains and CVL air group aviators role in forcing the mistake in Kurita's part

Edited by adnadi

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And speaking of Leyte, don discount the courage of the small DD/DE captains and CVL air group aviators role in forcing the mistake in Kurita's part

 

 

Yes, who can forget the astounding bravery of those DD and DE crew, and the CVE airmen. I read that one pilot even used his pistol to shoot at the IJN ships when his plane ran out of ammo.  :amazed:

 

If Admiral Kurita had half the gumption and conviction of those USN sailors and airmen, he would have pressed on and completed his mission. He would have probably had to pay a huge price, but the Japanese do love their tragic heroes (i.e. Yamato on her last mission).

Edited by Bunda369

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The hindsight is strong tho. I can see why Kurita was shitting his navy whites when being confronted by constant torpedo runs. Plus, some of his ships were combat ineffective due to the resistance Taffy 3 provided, and as far as he knew at the moment, large US fleet were still afloat and nearby. No wonder he turned tail and ran

Edited by adnadi

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