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ZenTex

What's the point in low tier non IJN destroyers?

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Coming from the IJN DD line (and loving it)  I decided to give the US and USSR lines a shot.

For IJN destroyers it's obvious: Spam torpedo's while remaining undetected.

 

But for the other nations? Surely they must rely on guns to do damage while using their torpedo's in self defense only, to shake off pursuers at close range (or maybe rush a solitary battleship and using cover to ambush the occasional ship, but this is very very situational and certainly not common) since the torpedo's range is well inside the detection range.

 

But then, the guns... I found they're of very limited use too. the problem is their rotation speed. If i play DD style hit and run tactics, zoom in, release a few shells, maouever wildly then get out of range fast... I hardly get a few shots on the target because usually no more than 1 or 2 guns can be trained on target... The alternative is running in a straight line... and we know how that ends.

Also the shell's trajectory and speed also don't help with hitting targets reliably.

And then there's the damage it does. a single shell hits for pathetic damage, the damage output is a mere fraction of that of a cruiser.

 

And then there's the paper armour issue. in 3 out of 5 of my fist low tier non-IJN games i have been detonated. 2 of these were with the FIRST shell that hit me! And of course any DD that gets spotted will be the priority target for any cruisers out there and with the shell spam they're able to put on target and the damage they do, survival is often measured in seconds, especially since every few shots disable your steering gear, engine, or usually: both. So waiting until all enemies are engaged and then zooming in to get some shells on target does't really work either. any gun out there will be trained on a DD once detected.

 

This is not a complain or a rant post, I'm really trying to figure out the point of low(er) tiered DD's, I'm wondering how others do it and how they fare.

 

I find there's some good games to be had, but just as many end up with me barely being able to do any damage at all as there is virually ZERO room for error or bad luck.

 

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keep those guns shooting and profit. You can yolo charge low tier BB for torp runs

 

Also keep that rudder dancing while you sprint on full speed shooting BB to set fires. Don't engage cruisers unless they are distracted or low HP until tier 5, because tier 5 DD guns can cit CL easily, especially Russian

 

So whatever you do, keep those guns hot. Sit in smoke or behind island to shoot whenever you get a chance. Just becareful smoke is torp magnet

Edited by FenrirApalis

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Super Tester
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Keep yourself from being spotted but when you got spotted by enemy destroyer, you can engage him until he died or dealt enough damage. then retreat. That's how I did for US Destroyer on lower tier but the RU destroyers played differently as the shell fired way upward & takes days to land on the target. :D

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keep those guns shooting and profit. You can yolo charge low tier BB for torp runs

 

Also keep that rudder dancing while you sprint on full speed shooting BB to set fires. Don't engage cruisers unless they are distracted or low HP until tier 5, because tier 5 DD guns can cit CL easily, especially Russian

 

So whatever you do, keep those guns hot. Sit in smoke or behind island to shoot whenever you get a chance. Just becareful smoke is torp magnet

 

Like I said, zigzagging this and that way with guns blazing means I can barely keep my guns on target, so DPS suffers a lot. this is the first and foremost reason i cannot get too many shots in in many games.

for USN/SN DDs get BFT on your commanders

Check

Keep yourself from being spotted but when you got spotted by enemy destroyer, you can engage him until he died or dealt enough damage. then retreat. That's how I did for US Destroyer on lower tier but the RU destroyers played differently as the shell fired way upward & takes days to land on the target. :D

This works well against IJN DD's but Russian and US destroyers shoot back, bastards.

I usually come out on top if there aren't too many enemy cruisers around to shoot at me, but in general I pop a few shells into the DD then make a hasty retreat.

 

Again, tier 3-4 DD's performance is very situational at best. with their limited range and slow turret rotation it's hard to land more damage unto the enemy than they land on me. One gets lucky and they're so obsessed shooting at their current target that they largely ignore me, in which case i have a field day, more often than not I find myself under fire from everyone on the other team.

 

I think these tiers DD's are a bit of a mess. Torpedo's that are too short range to be used reliably and from relative safety, guns that pack a punch but are again very short range and just lack oomph against anything that's not a DD and a turret rotation that is far too slow to keep the guns on target when manouevering wildly, sort of defeating the purpose of a quick, hard to hit gunboat.

(and in the case of the tier 4 US DD, a 6.7 7 base vis range hurts as quite often i found myself being stalked by other DD's, keeping the "detected" warning lit up when I'm frantically trying to retreat)

Edited by ZenTex

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Like I said, zigzagging this and that way with guns blazing means I can barely keep my guns on target, so DPS suffers a lot. this is the first and foremost reason i cannot get too many shots in in many games.

Check

This works well against IJN DD's but Russian and US destroyers shoot back, bastards.

I usually come out on top if there aren't too many enemy cruisers around to shoot at me, but in general I pop a few shells into the DD then make a hasty retreat.

 

Again, tier 3-4 DD's performance is very situational at best. with their limited range and slow turret rotation it's hard to land more damage unto the enemy than they land on me. One gets lucky and they're so obsessed shooting at their current target that they largely ignore me, in which case i have a field day, more often than not I find myself under fire from everyone on the other team.

 

I think these tiers DD's are a bit of a mess. Torpedo's that are too short range to be used reliably and from relative safety, guns that pack a punch but are again very short range and just lack oomph against anything that's not a DD and a turret rotation that is far too slow to keep the guns on target when manouevering wildly, sort of defeating the purpose of a quick, hard to hit gunboat.

(and in the case of the tier 4 US DD, a 6.7 7 base vis range hurts as quite often i found myself being stalked by other DD's, keeping the "detected" warning lit up when I'm frantically trying to retreat)

 

which one are you talking about? as far as I know from nicholas and up there will never be a problem with torret trasverse speed. for Clemson shoot, dodge, shoot and repeat. I forgot how it was for the wickes and sampson but their reload time will give you a big enough window to maneuver

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Super Tester
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If you cannot get used to operating a destroyer while being detected, you shouldn't play American and Russian destroyers.

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which one are you talking about? as far as I know from nicholas and up there will never be a problem with torret trasverse speed. for Clemson shoot, dodge, shoot and repeat. I forgot how it was for the wickes and sampson but their reload time will give you a big enough window to maneuver

 

The US clemson and Soviet Derziki specifically. On the Nicholas this is no point anymore really.

If you cannot get used to operating a destroyer while being detected, you shouldn't play American and Russian destroyers.

 

Did you read my post? Or even just the topic title?

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Super Tester
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Tier 3 Derzki... I think I free experience the rest of 5k because, I really can't handle the high-angle fired of the ship. I mean..... 7km target & it takes days to land on the target. :P

 

Clemson is easy actually, you play like a ninja gunboat. You go to nearest cap in Domination and if you encounter JP Destroyers, you'll damage them easily.

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Oh, I actually loved the Clemson to bits. But it's very situational like i said, Sometimes i rush in guns blazing, dodging shells and torpedoes, blowing up enemy gunning other DD's to death and topedoing their BB's, all in one go. But then next game you try to do the same and basically get myself screwed over in the first 5 seconds because every enemy's salvo seems to hit and cause criticals.

 

I'm guessing after reaching the next tier I'd best describe the playstyle as "opportunistic".

Trying to find lone BB's or enemy ships that are engaged zoom in and out, see if i'm being prioritized by the enemy. if yes: GTFO, if no: get up, close and personal. Either way, action packed. :)

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Clemson is easy actually, you play like a ninja gunboat. You go to nearest cap in Domination and if you encounter JP Destroyers, you'll damage them easily.

 

It's funny that I did both in a standard random battle and not only damaged a Minakaze, but sunk it via torpedoes before capping the enemy base. Clemson is definitely a ninja gunboat, a DD that can harass as many as three cruisers and one destroyer with HE fire before disappearing in the mist.

 

@ OP - I guess there are just people who are good with gun boats and there are people good with torpedo boats. I'm just in the middle as I am currently playing an Isokaze as well as Nicholas.

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Beta Tester
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what's the point of other DD aside from IJN DD? its simple, they bully IJN DD, harass larger ship with their peashooter and if have a chance, sink enemy battleship with their torpedoes. they might not have long range torpedo but they do have lots of them.

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[TOX1C]
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what's the point of other DD aside from IJN DD? its simple, they bully IJN DD, harass larger ship with their peashooter and if have a chance, sink enemy battleship with their torpedoes. they might not have long range torpedo but they do have lots of them.

 

And the torps actually do damage! 

 

Love the clemson anywhere except open sea.

Edited by slitheriner

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[HMAS]
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Hiya I'm A Noobie in WoW & I've just stepped up to a Clemson B hull from a Wicks DD, to me both were/are Gun snipers or ninja DD's to me, but then I do get off a few torps occasionally as well -despite their short range.

I don't mind the twin gunned Clemson as It does have better hitting power @ 8 Km's, But then I'm still learning the ropes as yet.

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Well, here are some points to consider:

 

1. USN DDs have much longer duration smoke, you can sit in smoke and shoot for a long time. With BFT you rain shells, literally. They are faster and have tighter turning radius. Can brawl with any IJN DD any time because IJN guns are shit below T5, and even from T5 and up, they lack range and rof. High damage yes, but unless player is familiar with gunboat, they can't shoot, or can't hit much. You can chase down pretty much any IJN DD in those.

 

2. At higher tier, from Benson and up, their concealment is on per IJN DDs, and actually there is no contest at all. Benson, Fletcher,Gearing, Kiev, Udaloi, Khabarovsk, there is no other DD that can come close to them, and if CAs go very close, they get citadelled by this and dead in 30 seconds.

 

3. When it comes to VMF DDs, or the Polish OP one we have in the game, or the 2 pan asians, I don't think against good driver, any IJN DD has a chance to stand. Its not about torp nerf or anything, unless you have support, they can chase you down and kill you, nothing you can do. Even flamu said in his Shima F3 video, "there is a khaba in the cap, im not going near it." They have extremely high range. Gnevny at tier 5 outranges almost every T5 cruiser.

 

In short, you have to be really good to make IJN DDs work, even noobs can do well in gunboats.

 wPOmnA6.jpg

 

You don't give a shit if you are spotted or not, as soon as you find a ship whose turrets aren't looking at you, you burn it down.

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well you do gunboating with that ship. IMO gunboat (non-IJN DD) >>>>>>>> torpedoboat (IJN DD), easy moneymaker, easy XP, easy teamcarry. For USN DD, you can do well with Sampson up to Clemson. Shoot behind island with the high arcs, stay far away from the enemy to easily hit your ship and use your smoke to fire from nothingness.

 

At first, it may be hard to try different tactics. But actually, you should play IJN DD like the gunboat itself. Remember, IJN DD also has guns and yes I'm gunboating with IJN DD :D

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I consider myself a very good Russian DD captain and while, yes, the turret traverse is a bit awkward, you get used to it pretty quick.  My recommendation here is to avoid using the Q and E keys to turn.  A and D give you much more direct control of your ships rotation and you can easily make up for the turret rotation by just letting off the turn for a second.

 

Russian DDs excel in using their guns at mid to long range and can do significant amounts of damage with them.  I have a Gnevny game under my belt with 133k damage, though granted, something like 50k of that was torpedoes.

The key to Russian DDs is to make sure you use AP against broadside targets (except other destroyers), even battleships.  Against cruisers you can easily citadel them.  I racked up 17 citadels in that game with the Gnevny.

Against battleships though, you need to hit their superstructure.  As in the tower and smokestacks.  Otherwise your shells will do little damage to their sides.  Hitting a broadside battleship's superstructure will easily net you 2000+ damage per salvo.  The only time you'll see good returns against battleship sides are when you're below 8km range but you better make sure the enemy battleship isn't looking at you if you're that close.

 

The main downfall of Russian destroyers is that the higher tier (7+) ships have very poor stealth for a destroyer (9km+ detection).  This can lead to awkward situations when dancing with enemy DDs but that's not a low tier concern.

 

Once you get to the Gnevny, I recommend equipping the turret rotation module and using the expert marksman on your captain as this brings the rotation down from 35 seconds to something like 20-25 seconds which is much more reasonable.  This is because the Gnevny has the worst turret traverse in the entire Russian DD line.  I also recommend Vigilance over Superintendent as Russian smoke screens are pretty bad and generally I rely more on mobility and range to avoid damage than sitting in a smoke screen.  Vigilance is very powerful and you spot torpedoes very early which helps because Russian DDs are so fast they can run straight into torpedoes.  At this point, if you've been transferring your original captain up, you may also have enough points to grab Advanced Firing Training which will boost your range to an impressive 14-15km.  I also recommend packing premium repair (since you won't have Last Stand with my Gnevny build) and premium speed boost (no Superintendent).  You can drop the premium stuff if you don't have a premium account to save some of your credits as DD repair recharges very fast anyway.

 

American DDs are fun as well, but their guns are harder to use because their shells are much slower (700m/s versus 900m/s).  I haven't played American DDs in a long time, and I'm probably a better shot now than I was before, but you'll find that they can struggle to hit enemy DDs that are manoeuvring.  I believe the key here is to close the range.  It's a lot harder to miss from 5km and less.  American DDs also have satisfactory torpedoes and you should use them at any opportunity.  American DDs will also find a lot of success in shooting from smokescreens (they have a very long duration smoke) and from behind islands (due to the high shell trajectory).

 

Once you've mastered Russian and American DDs, you'll look at Japanese DDs and consider them tasty snacks. :)

The skills you learn from Russian DDs transfer nicely to Japanese destroyers and their big, slow guns as well.

Edited by PixelDust

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just skip the tier 3-4 soviet cruisers with free XP they cause salt overload

 

Sveta can be not so comfortable to use, and indeed can be tearmaker, her you can skip, but skipping a cruiser that in good hands is rivaling St. Louis of old days in awsomeness? Are you nuts?
Edited by sea_Dieselheart

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the first 2 RUS DDs have so many torps and fast reload, only 3 km range but that means its even harder to miss.

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wait , if the akizuki line wasn't coming

i will really want to say

Whats the point in high tier ijn destroyers

 

^ well for now yes this is a good question, lets just wait for akizuki line now...... but still i m gonna miss the torpedo

wait well...shimakaze still won't has gud guns...

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