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TE_Deathskyz

Tier 5 Skill Rework

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Super Tester
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Tier 5 skills. Finally. You got your 15th point captain.

So it seems that you have 6 choices to choose from:

 

  1. Last Chance (LC) [-30% reload if your HP is less than 10%]
  2. Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament (MFC) [-60% dispersion of secondaries if Tier 7 and above. Else, -15% dispersion]
  3. Preventive Maintenance (PM) [-50% to risk of module incap]
  4. Concealment Expert (CE) [DDs 10%, CA -12%, BB -14%, CV -16% Detection range]
  5. Air Supremacy (AS) [+1 Fighter AND +1 Dive Bomber]
  6. Jack of all Trades (JOAT) [-15% cooldown reduction]

 

But really. There's only 2 to choose from. And only 1 clear choice if you are a CV.

 

Lets look at what each skill does. And discuss what makes it good/OP.

 


 

Lets start with Air Supremacy. This skill greatly benefits CVs whose loadouts have more squads. And we all know which nation has that.

If you don't have AS on your CV, and the enemy CV has AS, you will lose nearly all the time. The benefit is that significant.

This skill is undeniably overpowered. I don't think anyone is able to dispute that.

 

An idea that was thrown around in discussion was to:

  • Remove +1 Fighter and DB
  • Reduce cooldown penalty when you lose your squad (IJN has a 3x penalty. USN has a 2x penalty)

 

Again, this was one idea out of many. Throw in some ideas how we can... balance this skill so it doesn't lolwreck those without this skill.

 

Suggestions:

  1. Perk that removes/reduces the Defensive Fire Panic Penalty (but not the extra DPS) for bombers
  2. Add more reserve planes

 


 

Concealment Expert

Literally a must have for DDs and CAs.

A DD being spotted at 7.5km vs a DD being spotted at 6.75km is a lot of difference. Especially when capping.

For CAs? Its the difference between being able to stealth fire and not being able to stealth fire.

For IJN CAs, heck it even allows them to stealth torp.

 

Suggestions:

  1. Remain as it is.
  2. Reduce detection penalty timer from 20s to 10s

 


 

Manual Fire Control for Secondaries

MFC needs a rework along with the secondary logic.

Secondaries needs to stop aiming at the hull, especially the HE firing secondaries and instead aim for the superstructure.

-15% at tier 6? We have BBs with good secondaries at tier 6. Why leave them out? If WG wanted to avoid sealclubbers, limit at tier 4 instead.

 

Suggestions:

  1. Improved Secondary AI
    • Along with reducing dispersion
    • AI chooses whether to fire AP or HE. Just like Bastion Forts.
    • If your secondaries can penetrate the hull, AI fires AP into enemy hull.
    • If it cant, it will fire HE into the superstructure.
  2. Choice of AP or HE
    1. You can select the loadout in Port to either fire all AP or all HE.

 


 

Last Chance

hahahahaha who the hell would use this useless skill?

Put this at tier 3 or something

 

Make it a gradual increment starting from 60% HP.

i.e. at 60% hp, -5% reload.

at 50% hp, -10% reload

etc. etc.

 


 

Preventive Maintenance

this one as well. -50% to incap? who would use this?

BBs can use MFC, DDs/CA would rather get CE

Heck the tier 2 last stand (50% of your engine/rudder working) is more useful than this

 

I suggest that the Preventative Maintenance skill make the main turret of any ship be incapable of being destroyed. It would also universally improve the repair time of all non-main batteries (Including engine and rudder) by 50%, and improve battery repair time by 33%. It will not limit the capability of an enemy to inflict incapacitations, however, it will severely decrease the effects of incapacitations, making this favorable for tanky builds that don't wish to take concealment expert.

 

 

Suggestions:

  1. Make Main turrets indestructible
  2. Reduce fire damage per tick.

 


 

Jack of All Trades

Not bad. Not good either.

BBs have CE or MFC to choose from.

-15% is not good enough.

 

 

 


 

(WORK IN PROGRESS)

Do add in your views on the tier 5 skills

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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Senior Moderator
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Personally I'd like to see you have to make a choice for each class between 2 stand out skills.

 

E.G. DD do you take concealment or JOAT?

BB - secondaries or Last Stand?

 

Air Supremacy should get split into 2 options - 1 for AS loadouts and 1 for strike loadouts.

 

For any of this to occur, the skills need a revamp to increase the viability of alternative builds.

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Super Tester
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For Air Supremacy, is it possible to buff the drop circle of bombers? For IJN, maybe you could make it converge a tiny bit faster, while for USN, dive bomber manual drop area reduced (smaller ellipse). To make it not OP, maybe this could be to the effect of around 10% in terms of area reduced (can be adjusted to effect since TBs have almost 0 RNG and DBs are pure RNG).

 

If you want a "non-strike" version, maybe a flat buff to aircraft speed? 

 

As it is right now, Air supremacy not only buffs fighters, but also make dive bomber strikes more robust (losing 1 out of 5 is less painful than losing 1 out of 4, for example).

 

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It would be good if the skills can be streamlined like how Expert Marksman works, only further. For example with the Manual Secondaries skill: it could be:

20% for Tier 2/3

35% for Tier 4/5

50% for Tier 6/7

60% for Tier 8/9/10

or something along those lines. Streamlining such skills can be applied to Air Supremacy and Jack of all Trades(in a class way) to avoid Seal Clubbing and be more dynamic through the tiers.

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Senior Moderator
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It would be good if the skills can be streamlined like how Expert Marksman works, only further. For example with the Manual Secondaries skill: it could be:

20% for Tier 2/3

35% for Tier 4/5

50% for Tier 6/7

60% for Tier 8/9/10

or something along those lines. Streamlining such skills can be applied to Air Supremacy and Jack of all Trades(in a class way) to avoid Seal Clubbing and be more dynamic through the tiers.

 

oi, there is nothing wrong with maximising your enjoyment of the game at lower tiers!

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Super Tester
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It would be good if the skills can be streamlined like how Expert Marksman works, only further. For example with the Manual Secondaries skill: it could be:

20% for Tier 2/3

35% for Tier 4/5

50% for Tier 6/7

60% for Tier 8/9/10

or something along those lines. Streamlining such skills can be applied to Air Supremacy and Jack of all Trades(in a class way) to avoid Seal Clubbing and be more dynamic through the tiers.

 

I actually kind of like this idea.

 

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Lets start with Air Supremacy. This skill greatly benefits CVs whose loadouts have more squads. And we all know which nation has that.

If you don't have AS on your CV, and the enemy CV has AS, you will lose nearly all the time. The benefit is that significant.

This skill is undeniably overpowered. I don't think anyone is able to dispute that.

 

An idea that was thrown around in discussion was to:

  • Remove +1 Fighter and DB
  • Reduce cooldown penalty when you lose your squad (IJN has a 3x penalty. USN has a 2x penalty)

 

Again, this was one idea out of many. Throw in some ideas how we can... balance this skill so it doesn't lolwreck those without this skill.

 


 

Funny, I suggested removing this long time before as I've anticipated problems rooting from that skill and a reply ridiculing my suggestion got 6 upvotes, now that everywhere's shit most people agree. Suggested this to WG long before, got ignored and laughed at. http://forum.worldofwarships.asia/index.php?/topic/11248-remove-air-superioritycaptain-skill-lvl-5/page__p__157071#entry157071

 

Thing is, WG should listen more to experienced players, specially when it comes to CVs. As a poster said before, I doubt those devs even play CV and know what they're doing.

Edited by Deicide

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Super Tester
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I rather they rework the skill rather than straight up remove it.

A reduction of the cooldown penalty wont make a squad engagement decided before it even started.

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Beta Tester
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I rather they rework the skill rather than straight up remove it.

A reduction of the cooldown penalty wont make a squad engagement decided before it even started.

 

i suggested that back when CVs still have no reload penalty when their whole squad dies. back then, tier 10 CVs(they have a lot of planes) were really op since they can just suicide their bombers after dropping their bombs instead of flying all the way back to CV, greatly reducing reload time.
Edited by Deicide

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Reworking Air Supremacy is a bit tricky. Mainly due to how it works originally. If it changes to something like +plane speed or -squad reload speed, it somehow overlaps with the T4 captain skill CVs take.
Hard stat additions in plane HP, speed, drop spreads will require quite a bit of testing to verify the right values needed so it doesn't 'feel' OP at a given tier.
So, until someone comes up with an agreeable rework, I'm in the camp of either keeping it or removing it completely.

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I propose a 33% reduction in sortie (Take-off) time as a replacement for the Air Supremacy skill.

 

Look at the CV Data in my signature.

 

The shortest full sortie time is possessed by Hosho- At 30 seconds for all its planes to be in the skies. At Tier 10, it takes 85 seconds for all the squadrons to sortie out of the flight deck.

 

My idea is that "Air Supremacy" meant a projection of power within a short period of time. This will cut the 85s sortie time of a Hakuryu to a mere minute, allowing it to gain the early scouting advantage, as well as clear the flight decks faster for planes queuing for landing.

 

Yes, that much data was contributed by members from the EU server, thank them~.

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Super Tester
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i suggested that back when CVs still have no reload penalty when their whole squad dies. back then, tier 10 CVs(they have a lot of planes) were really op since they can just suicide their bombers after dropping their bombs instead of flying all the way back to CV, greatly reducing reload time.

 

Yeah, that was an actual specialty of the old 122 Midway.

 

That said, I do not really miss the +1 fighter much if it were to be removed (strike Essex/Midway), but I am more worried about the robustness of my DB attacks. 1 less bomb per squad is going to be 1 less bomb into the big ol' RNG pot.

 

Still, changing the skill to reload penalty reduction might make it useful, since it indirectly buffs Midway (ATM the Midway has so many reserves that even with Essex which has far less planes, I do not really feel the losses unless I get dominated by the enemy CV), but I wonder if it will be worth 5 points (it better be a substantial buff).

 

Overall, I would still prefer a splitting of air supremacy such that there is a "fighter" version and a "strike" version.

 

Speaking of plane skills... Can a DB equivalent of TAE be placed at 2 points? Would help a lot with the turnaround times, and I would certainly take that over spending 2 points on BFT/ERG/ (BoS is a keeper for me).

 

@Stein, that sounds like a great idea to reduce turnaround times, but buffs IJN CVs more than USN. Unless there is some sort of big change to USN CVs that make them a more attractive option, I am afraid that this will simply be a repeat of Air Surpremacy where IJN gets more out of it than USN will.

Edited by stratmania

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i suggested that back when CVs still have no reload penalty when their whole squad dies. back then, tier 10 CVs(they have a lot of planes) were really op since they can just suicide their bombers after dropping their bombs instead of flying all the way back to CV, greatly reducing reload time.

 

I prefer this without the penalty, it's just easier with no penalties at all

when i was in the PT, i was in the tier X Hakuryu and that thing was a beast

Much much better when it's only reload when your plane dies and launch again

Penalties should be removed, i kinda like the Beta in past days

Edited by BIGCOREMKP0I

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Full tank BB build with Jack can give 58 sec cd on Damecon and 65 second on Reparty

 

Considering those damn tanky Deustch BB is coming this skill might be great for div use

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I prefer this without the penalty, it's just easier with no penalties at all

when i was in the PT, i was in the tier X Hakuryu and that thing was a beast

Much much better when it's only reload when your plane dies and launch again

Penalties should be removed, i kinda like the Beta in past days

 

It was removed because it "was" OP. T10 CVs right now are great enough as is even WITH the penalty. It can be removed imo, but not with the status quo now.

I propose a 33% reduction in sortie (Take-off) time as a replacement for the Air Supremacy skill.

 

Look at the CV Data in my signature.

 

The shortest full sortie time is possessed by Hosho- At 30 seconds for all its planes to be in the skies. At Tier 10, it takes 85 seconds for all the squadrons to sortie out of the flight deck.

 

My idea is that "Air Supremacy" meant a projection of power within a short period of time. This will cut the 85s sortie time of a Hakuryu to a mere minute, allowing it to gain the early scouting advantage, as well as clear the flight decks faster for planes queuing for landing.

 

Yes, that much data was contributed by members from the EU server, thank them~.

 

It is a good suggestion, but alas it does favor the IJN more due to the aircraft cycles. It will cause some sort of ruckus if it has different values for the USN and the IJN and will need considerable balancing.

And I'd like to use this post as a thank you for the data gathering.

 

For the Thread.

The Module Incapacitation skill can simply be a 100%-200% more HP to Secondaries/AA guns and other modules. It might not sound much for those that don't sport a good AA array or a considerable secondary build, but it is a pseudo +HP thing since those modules will be able to absorb a lot of damage that would supposedly be dealt to the ship's HP. It will work well being in the "survivability" column.

 

Edit: Tone change and corrections.

Edited by SZYZWY

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It is a good suggestion, but alas it does favor the IJN more due to the aircraft cycles. It will cause some sort of ruckus if it has different values for the USN and the IJN and will need considerable balancing.

And I'd like to use this post as a thank you for the data gathering.

 

One could may say, have the USN have no penalty.

IJN only 50% penalty.

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The only disadvantageous things I could see about having Air Supremacy perk:

 

1) You can potentially lose planes faster than that of a carrier without an AS perk since the perk only affects the number of planes per squadron and not the number of reserve planes in the hangar. Which means a squad would require more planes to replace or reorganize a new squad in case the original squad didn't return home which can be bad in the long run.

 

2) Longer maintenance time. 

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The only disadvantageous things I could see about having Air Supremacy perk:

 

1) You can potentially lose planes faster than that of a carrier without an AS perk since the perk only affects the number of planes per squadron and not the number of reserve planes in the hangar. Which means a squad would require more planes to replace or reorganize a new squad in case the original squad didn't return home which can be bad in the long run.

 

2) Longer maintenance time. 

 

Both are in game.

 

The problem is that an AS squad will always win a Regular Squad

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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It is a good suggestion, but alas it does favor the IJN more due to the aircraft cycles. It will cause some sort of ruckus if it has different values for the USN and the IJN and will need considerable balancing.

And I'd like to use this post as a thank you for the data gathering.

 

With 60s to fully sortie an upgraded Midway, it would only take a mere 40 seconds to sortie everything vs Hakuryu's 60-ish seconds should my suggestion be implemented.

 

---

 

I suggest that the Preventative Maintenance skill make the main turret of any ship be incapable of being destroyed. It would also universally improve the repair time of all non-main batteries (Including engine and rudder) by 50%, and improve battery repair time by 33%. It will not limit the capability of an enemy to inflict incapacitations, however, it will severely decrease the effects of incapacitations, making this favorable for tanky builds that don't wish to take concealment expert.

 

---

 

For Last Chance, it can stay at T5, but with these changes: For every 5% health lost starting at 50%, the ship gains a universal 7% improvement to reloads and consumables, capped at +56% at 10% HP. This makes the ship increasingly dangerous as long as it remains alive. Useful for clutch plays.

 

Imagine a dying Yamato firing 460mm at a rate similar to a cruiser.

 

Yeah. Kill it. Please.

 

Makes this skill more useful, eh?

 

---

 

No ideas for Jack of All Trades.

Edited by Stein_Grenadier

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For Last Chance, it can stay at T5, but with these changes: For every 5% health lost starting at 50%, the ship gains a universal 7% improvement to reloads and consumables, capped at +56% at 10% HP. This makes the ship increasingly dangerous as long as it remains alive. Useful for clutch plays.

 

Imagine a dying Yamato firing 460mm at a rate similar to a cruiser.

 

Yeah. Kill it. Please.

 

Makes this skill more useful, eh?

 

I can see it now...

Divisions of Shimakazes... they bring themselves to -10% HP.

Torp walls lol

 

But I like the idea of Preventive Maintenance making your turrets indestructible.

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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Beta Tester
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With 60s to fully sortie an upgraded Midway, it would only take a mere 40 seconds to sortie everything vs Hakuryu's 60-ish seconds should my suggestion be implemented.

 

No. You never played midway have you?

 

Better not touch any reload value on the CVs now. IJN used to be very OP compared to USN b/c of their reload times, specially at thigh tier a hakuryu can just send continuous stream of new planes and overwhelm the midway. If there's anything good done to CVs by WG, it's their reload.

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No. You never played midway have you?

 

Better not touch any reload value on the CVs now. IJN used to be very OP compared to USN b/c of their reload times, specially at thigh tier a hakuryu can just send continuous stream of new planes and overwhelm the midway. If there's anything good done to CVs by WG, it's their reload.

 

Sortie time. Aka take-off time- Not Aircraft Servicing Expert Improved Mk. II.

 

It will not affect the servicing rate of aircraft, it would simply make their take-offs be 33% faster.

 

---

 

 

I can see it now...

Divisions of Shimakazes... they bring themselves to -10% HP.

Torp walls lol

 

But I like the idea of Preventive Maintenance making your turrets indestructible.

 

They'd be fragile glass cannons. Radar, plane or the errant SN DDs to spot them at a mere 1-2k HP and you'll get a free T10 kill.

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For Last Chance, it can stay at T5, but with these changes: For every 5% health lost starting at 50%, the ship gains a universal 7% improvement to reloads and consumables, capped at +56% at 10% HP. This makes the ship increasingly dangerous as long as it remains alive. Useful for clutch plays.

 

Imagine a dying Yamato firing 460mm at a rate similar to a cruiser.

 

Yeah. Kill it. Please.

 

Makes this skill more useful, eh?

Something like this is good but with a lesser effect. Ships that have heals and DDs will be able to make full use of this a bit too much.

(just imagining a 10% HP Fletcher shooting 2 shots every 3 seconds while in smoke or invisifiring).

 

Maybe it can start at around 30-40% HP with a max of 30% improvement at around 10%-15%. So it works like every -5% from 40% improves the reload by 5%. It'd make a Less than 40% HP ship have 5% improvement

Less than 35% HP ship have 10% improvement

Less than 30% HP ship have 15% improvement

Less than 25% HP ship have 20% improvement
Less than 20% HP ship have 25% improvement
Less than 15% HP ship have 30% improvement

 

As I'm listing this out, it still stands out as pretty OP.

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