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CarbonMonoxide

Need some help on playing the Hatsuharu

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After having some games on my hatsuharu

I have no idea how to use it

 

it has better guns but the range is disappointing

I can seldom use it

recently I tried to make better use of my guns

but I found that CA like to stay >10km away from the enemy, so I can't stay within the fleet and spam some HE

 

the torpedo is simply awful

if it approaches the enemy successfully, it can hit the target

but most of the time, an unconscious move of the target ruins my round

 

AA is crap, as usual

 

the worst thing is the concealment

6.7km, much worse than mutsuki

while fubuki's concealment is something not more than 6.7km

It is very difficult to cap

 

I can't effectively spam HE/long range torp/close quarter torp/dogfight

in many matches, I just hang around, doing and hitting nothing but waiting for the team to advance so I can cap

 

can anybody give me some advise to get along with the Hatsuharu?

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Super Tester
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Here's an obvious one, watch some Youtube videos on how people make good use of guns, ambush with torps and contest caps with DDs they can take on. This is a good one:

 

 

 

Ofcourse one match will not give an idea of most situations, but see 20-30 videos, you will see some cool tricks and tips.

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I can't give you specific videos that showcase Hatsu's might because my replays are ancient, but I can give you pointers. Hatsu is gud girl.

 

  • Your cannons have flatter trajectories and better damage- Downside is the rotation and RoF. The rule is to never aim at the waterline, where enemy armor is the thickest, in order to guarantee maximum damage. Aim for the deck/superstructure.
    • You can deal 1k+ damage per salvo on a battleship provided you hit the superstructure/deck.
    • Concealment and Islands are your friends.
    • Your advantages over enemy nations' DDs are your shell speeds, trajectory and accuracy- Each salvo needs 10s to load, but when they hit, you have the potential to damage a DD by up to 4k per salvo given all guns hit- Aim for the DD's center mass to guarantee engine knock-outs. Don't bother trying to use torpedoes until you're at a distance they can't run away from or when their engines are dead.
    • Fire AP at a cruiser's bow for guaranteed damage with the potential for citadel hits.
  • Your 10km torpedoes are horribly slow
    • I suggest getting torpedo acceleration- It cuts the range to 8km, but it's not like taking potshots with stray torpedoes at 10km with 50s+ reloads will hit anything.
    • Save your torpedoes for when the enemy fully exposes their broadside. Ideal situations are when you've flanked them and their bows are pointed perpendicularly towards your allies.
    • Or for when your enemies have broken engines.
    • Approach distracted battleships. At maximum speed. With engine boost. Give them the torpedo special at <2km using the tight spread. Hatsu-chan is very maneuverable compared to the other nations' DDs- Even more with the rudder shift upgrade. Don't forget to pop smoke after you finish your prey.
  • Your AA is reliable against IJN torpedo bombers up to tier 7.
    • Zuiho, Ryujo and Hiryu use the same torpedo bombers- And technically, your DP main batteries are what a Kongo-class uses for large-caliber AA.
    • Keep it off whenever possible, but if you see the enemy squadron at 4.5km with no signs of changing direction, turn your AA on.
    • It's also reliable for swatting catapult-launched planes and keeping your concealment.
  • Hatsuharu's maneuverable.
    • Beautiful rudder shift, especially with the upgrade.
    • You can literally cross your victim's T and drive by them like gangsters with your torps. Even destroyers.
    • You will never move in a straight line or expose your broadside because Hatsu would be easier to hit. Your ship direction relative to the enemy should always be angled, even when retreating.
    • If you stay stationary in your smoke after recently dueling a DD, you very much deserved that torpedo that hit you.
    • My favored tactic is opening fire to let them know that an IJN DD is there, then watching my enemies light themselves up by firing their guns at me while I dodge- Meanwhile, my team gets the first hit on the revealed ships.
  • Your speed leaves much to be desired.
    • If you see a Kiev or anything than goes faster than you, and you're isolated from your allies, don't bother with that area unless you intend to duel to the death without retreating- It's pointless to run from something that goes faster than you, so it's a life or death battle.
    • You're faster than cruisers, but only if you move in a straight line. You cannot win against cruisers close to detecting you with their guns pointed in your direction. Stop firing, and let your concealment save you- Minimize evasive maneuvers so you bleed less speed, but don't be lazy and go in a straight line, that's just asking to be punished.
    • If the enemy leaves the cap, advance.
  • Hatsu can't be called a good torpedo boat or a reliable gun boat, but it's still a destroyer.
    • Make up for it by being cap-savvy.
    • Leave area-denial torpedoes and gunboat duties to more dedicated destroyers- Your job is to cap cap cap.
    • Hatsu is very team-oriented. You'll want to be coordinating with CVs or Cruisers to contest caps. The cruisers can't cap in a contested zone because of their concealment and the exposed area the cap is in. Meanwhile, a destroyer only needs to destroy what can spot it- Planes and other destroyers.
    • Stay near the cap's edge on your team's side if you want more AA.
    • Always flank. It may only be average, but Hatsu is exponentially dangerous when it is flanking. It divides the enemy's guns' attention away from your allies. You can choose to torpedo them quietly when flanking or open up your main batteries to make them retreat due to the logic "IJN DD = Torpedoes". Of course, dodge their fire.

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Use more guns, I found the torps are hard to use in stealth torping. A bit easier with the +5 knot, -20%range thing. 

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I'll be brutally honest. You're not at fault, unfortunately the hatsu is bad. I can give you tips on how to play the ship, but it's not going to get you very far (unless you get those perfect circumstances with brain-dead enemy BBs). And stop glorifying something that is clearly terrible, people.

 

1) you rely on allies to take out enemy dds. You can't even fight a C hull mutsuki, so just run for your damn life.

 

2) you bully minekaze and other mutsuki with your guns

 

3) you're going to have to snipe from 8km+ if islands aren't in a favorable position. Your detection is bad enough that trying to torp at 6.5-6.7km puts you right under the enemy scout plane.

 

4) prioritize enemy ships heavily over caps. Your first cap is compulsory, then you're going to have to go for precision torping against capital ships. I believe there is a thread on how to torp correctly. Search it up.

 

You can only shine with an ally distracting, remember. So make your torpedo prediction shots count or you're just a burdern to the team.

Edited by Kleiss

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Super Tester
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  • Block Quote

    Fire AP at a cruiser's bow for guaranteed damage with the potential for citadel hits.

     

     

 

Seriously? At tier 7 most cruisers are heavy cruiser and AP on their bow will do shit.

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Seriously? At tier 7 most cruisers are heavy cruiser and AP on their bow will do shit.

 

Trust me. This rock has played with Hatsuharu and was disappointed with the gameplay change Fubuki brought along.

 

The guns may be the same, but T8 armor is... Nope.

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I'd suggest looking for some late/mid Tier Torpedo guides, 

You can't just rely on the speed and stealth of the Torpedo's from the Mutsuki onwards, more thought is required to successfully Torpedo ships

Try getting creative :)

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Stein_Grenadier gives some good advice. One main advantage with a good team is that you can spot enemy DD then let them attack them while you remain invisible.
Also DO NOT cap if the CL do not know how to play , you can easily tell by their position., either they are too close or have an island blocking the view to the cap circle if there could be a better shooting DD
that you are against.

 

 

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Stein_Grenadier gives some good advice. One main advantage with a good team is that you can spot enemy DD then let them attack them while you remain invisible.

Also DO NOT cap if the CL do not know how to play , you can easily tell by their position., either they are too close or have an island blocking the view to the cap circle if there could be a better shooting DD

that you are against.

 

 

 

bruh drop the red text it's not allowed

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I can't give you specific videos that showcase Hatsu's might because my replays are ancient, but I can give you pointers. Hatsu is gud girl.

 

  • Your cannons have flatter trajectories and better damage- Downside is the rotation and RoF. The rule is to never aim at the waterline, where enemy armor is the thickest, in order to guarantee maximum damage. Aim for the deck/superstructure.
    • You can deal 1k+ damage per salvo on a battleship provided you hit the superstructure/deck.
    • Concealment and Islands are your friends.
    • Your advantages over enemy nations' DDs are your shell speeds, trajectory and accuracy- Each salvo needs 10s to load, but when they hit, you have the potential to damage a DD by up to 4k per salvo given all guns hit- Aim for the DD's center mass to guarantee engine knock-outs. Don't bother trying to use torpedoes until you're at a distance they can't run away from or when their engines are dead.
    • Fire AP at a cruiser's bow for guaranteed damage with the potential for citadel hits.
  • Your 10km torpedoes are horribly slow
    • I suggest getting torpedo acceleration- It cuts the range to 8km, but it's not like taking potshots with stray torpedoes at 10km with 50s+ reloads will hit anything.
    • Save your torpedoes for when the enemy fully exposes their broadside. Ideal situations are when you've flanked them and their bows are pointed perpendicularly towards your allies.
    • Or for when your enemies have broken engines.
    • Approach distracted battleships. At maximum speed. With engine boost. Give them the torpedo special at <2km using the tight spread. Hatsu-chan is very maneuverable compared to the other nations' DDs- Even more with the rudder shift upgrade. Don't forget to pop smoke after you finish your prey.
  • Your AA is reliable against IJN torpedo bombers up to tier 7.
    • Zuiho, Ryujo and Hiryu use the same torpedo bombers- And technically, your DP main batteries are what a Kongo-class uses for large-caliber AA.
    • Keep it off whenever possible, but if you see the enemy squadron at 4.5km with no signs of changing direction, turn your AA on.
    • It's also reliable for swatting catapult-launched planes and keeping your concealment.
  • Hatsuharu's maneuverable.
    • Beautiful rudder shift, especially with the upgrade.
    • You can literally cross your victim's T and drive by them like gangsters with your torps. Even destroyers.
    • You will never move in a straight line or expose your broadside because Hatsu would be easier to hit. Your ship direction relative to the enemy should always be angled, even when retreating.
    • If you stay stationary in your smoke after recently dueling a DD, you very much deserved that torpedo that hit you.
    • My favored tactic is opening fire to let them know that an IJN DD is there, then watching my enemies light themselves up by firing their guns at me while I dodge- Meanwhile, my team gets the first hit on the revealed ships.
  • Your speed leaves much to be desired.
    • If you see a Kiev or anything than goes faster than you, and you're isolated from your allies, don't bother with that area unless you intend to duel to the death without retreating- It's pointless to run from something that goes faster than you, so it's a life or death battle.
    • You're faster than cruisers, but only if you move in a straight line. You cannot win against cruisers close to detecting you with their guns pointed in your direction. Stop firing, and let your concealment save you- Minimize evasive maneuvers so you bleed less speed, but don't be lazy and go in a straight line, that's just asking to be punished.
    • If the enemy leaves the cap, advance.
  • Hatsu can't be called a good torpedo boat or a reliable gun boat, but it's still a destroyer.
    • Make up for it by being cap-savvy.
    • Leave area-denial torpedoes and gunboat duties to more dedicated destroyers- Your job is to cap cap cap.
    • Hatsu is very team-oriented. You'll want to be coordinating with CVs or Cruisers to contest caps. The cruisers can't cap in a contested zone because of their concealment and the exposed area the cap is in. Meanwhile, a destroyer only needs to destroy what can spot it- Planes and other destroyers.
    • Stay near the cap's edge on your team's side if you want more AA.
    • Always flank. It may only be average, but Hatsu is exponentially dangerous when it is flanking. It divides the enemy's guns' attention away from your allies. You can choose to torpedo them quietly when flanking or open up your main batteries to make them retreat due to the logic "IJN DD = Torpedoes". Of course, dodge their fire.

so the main points are flanking, luring fire and capping

but how should I flank the enemy?

if I flank then I must leave the ally, but with the 6.7km concealment I may easily get spotted

I'll be brutally honest. You're not at fault, unfortunately the hatsu is bad. I can give you tips on how to play the ship, but it's not going to get you very far (unless you get those perfect circumstances with brain-dead enemy BBs). And stop glorifying something that is clearly terrible, people.

 

1) you rely on allies to take out enemy dds. You can't even fight a C hull mutsuki, so just run for your damn life.

 

2) you bully minekaze and other mutsuki with your guns

 

3) you're going to have to snipe from 8km+ if islands aren't in a favorable position. Your detection is bad enough that trying to torp at 6.5-6.7km puts you right under the enemy scout plane.

 

4) prioritize enemy ships heavily over caps. Your first cap is compulsory, then you're going to have to go for precision torping against capital ships. I believe there is a thread on how to torp correctly. Search it up.

 

You can only shine with an ally distracting, remember. So make your torpedo prediction shots count or you're just a burdern to the team.

 

is hatsu's guns really that bad?

she has 4/5guns, I thought she is the first IJN DD that can make a living with guns

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is hatsu's guns really that bad?

she has 4/5guns, I thought she is the first IJN DD that can make a living with guns

 

She can duke it out with other nation DDs but don't expect to be on top the longer the engagement. Your 'better' concealment and good HE alpha is more for cheap shots against unsuspecting other nation DDs. For other IJN DDs that turn up to be your enemy, it's fair game.

 

Hatsu is one of the more situational DDs so it really is up to your judgement as long as you keep what most of what Stein said in mind and you'll be good to go.

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so the main points are flanking, luring fire and capping

but how should I flank the enemy?

if I flank then I must leave the ally, but with the 6.7km concealment I may easily get spotted

 

You look for a spot that isn't busy and you go there.

 

Hatsuharu has no business in contested caps with at least 4 ships on each side- Save for when there's a DD and its torps need to be spotted.

 

The default mindset when in contested caps is you can't advance when:

  1. There are DDs fighting each other in the cap
  2. There are enemies on the other side of the cap
  3. There are torpedo walls every minute

 

Meaning:

  • Enemy cruisers can and will target you once you're spotted inside a busy cap- Dodging shells at <8km is a scary affair. More so against 203mm HE shells
  • You find other places to go to if you value your life
  • This essentially makes you an independent captain that relies on ships within the local area for support

 

---

 

Oh, and I forgot.

 

Don't.

Ever.

Smokescreen.

On.

First.

Engagement.

 

will slap you.

 

You have the speed and maneuverability to dodge shells and reach safety. Use smokescreen for when you're retreating from other DDs or for when you are about to get beached on an island- Basically situations that your speed and maneuverability can't help too much. The only time it's excusable to sit in the safety of smoke and spam shells is when there are no DDs or torpedo-armed cruisers with the torpedo range to fire torpedoes at you.

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so the main points are flanking, luring fire and capping

but how should I flank the enemy?

if I flank then I must leave the ally, but with the 6.7km concealment I may easily get spotted

 

is hatsu's guns really that bad?

she has 4/5guns, I thought she is the first IJN DD that can make a living with guns

 

Despite the high alpha they are still pretty inaccurate and have low rate of fire. Mutsuki is actually more threatening with its double 5 second reload guns lol.

 

I'm reaaaallly trying not to overlap with stein here, so just follow what he says and maybe follow what i have experienced through the grind. Just know that this ship is bad, and u need allies. Daz all.

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Haruharu is at that weird tier that suffers the penalities of fatter ship, worse camo, etc, without getting any of those equipment to fix that. I would disagree with what stein said about less range for more speed, as you need to stay as far away from the enemy as possible.

I would say she handles like an uptiered Mutsuki, without much advances in terms of torps.

If the enemy sails towards you, you can drop torps at 12km, because they will sail towards you and cover the distance.

If they are broadside onto you, drop one set of torps a bit left, and one a bit right to counter possible manuvers. Never use the widespread. 

Keep at it, because after rhe grind you will get Fubuki, which is a fine ship

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Super Tester
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Haruharu is at that weird tier that suffers the penalities of fatter ship, worse camo, etc, without getting any of those equipment to fix that. I would disagree with what stein said about less range for more speed, as you need to stay as far away from the enemy as possible.

I would say she handles like an uptiered Mutsuki, without much advances in terms of torps.

If the enemy sails towards you, you can drop torps at 12km, because they will sail towards you and cover the distance.

If they are broadside onto you, drop one set of torps a bit left, and one a bit right to counter possible manuvers. Never use the widespread. 

Keep at it, because after rhe grind you will get Fubuki, which is a fine ship

 

Depends on play style. I know stein very well and we play together usually, he is very aggressive player, and really good in hatsu, that's why he takes faster torpedo with shorter range. he usually relies on gunfight. 12Km torps are mostly for aria denial, you wont be able to hit any good players with it at all if they know you are nearby. but 8kms are kinda brawling and ambushing type, both works. depends on players.

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Alpha Tester
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Well this ship so damn bad at his tier due

Torpedo that sucks, meh concealment, meh speed, meh turning radius, meh tier matchmaking (could meet tier 9), and very meh gunboat compare to other nation counter part

One of the ship i found most struggle to grind even back in closed beta

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No love for Hatsu.

 

The only thing more maneuverable than Hatsu is Sims- A dedicated premium gunboat with weird torpedo choices- Mahan, on the other hand has a turning radius that's slightly better than Hatsu, but only has 35kt max speed.

Hatsu is the DD with the best concealment at T7, with other nations having a minimum of 7km.

Hatsu can invisifire with AFT from maximum range with relatively flatter trajectories and fast shell speeds.

 

Not many people enjoyed the sudden gameplay change from Minekaze > Hatsuharu.

 

I'm going to go ahead and say what all the 13yr olds in certain videogames: Git gud, l2adapt

 

*Meanwhile*

 

Fubuki, how do.

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Like 10 stepping stones across a steam, the Hatsuharu 7th stone is a nasty old crocodile with its mouth open, best to jump over and on to the Fubuki

Edited by Yul_Brynner

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-snip-

*Meanwhile*

 

Fubuki, how do.

 

Personally, I think Fubuki is a direct upgrade from the Hatsuharu on almost everything so I don't know your struggle with her other than the tiering. It's pretty fun to gunboat using the Fubuki even when against some USN/VMF DD counterparts since she can stand her ground.

And since other nation DDs will tend to chase an IJN DD in an isolated engagement, the Fubuki's gun placement is quite great in a protracted retreating battle.

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Personally, I think Fubuki is a direct upgrade from the Hatsuharu on almost everything so I don't know your struggle with her other than the tiering. It's pretty fun to gunboat using the Fubuki even when against some USN/VMF DD counterparts since she can stand her ground.

And since other nation DDs will tend to chase an IJN DD in an isolated engagement, the Fubuki's gun placement is quite great in a protracted retreating battle.

 

Worse rudder shift, worse turning radius, worse speed, worse torpedo arcs, worse torpedo reloads. MM against radar-equipped ships and planes that are harder to shoot down. Concealment is better than Hatsuharu- But only if you buy the expensive concealment upgrade.

 

The only saving grace is an additional turret for both the main batteries and torpedoes.

 

At least with Hatsuharu, I can comfortably dodge at 10km. Fubuki, even with rudder shift upgrade, can't hope to outmaneuver anything. It's slower than SN CAs with their 36kt max speed, and the wide turning radius guarantees that speed will bleed trying to evade. It has no hope of escaping pursuit from enemy DDs save for smoke- Let alone IJN cruisers with a 35kt max speed- Concealment won't help if they know you need to move in a straight line in order to remain hidden, even worse is that 203mm HE hits to the stern guarantee both rudder and engine incapacitations or when they use radar to hunt down your slow DD

 

Gun fights against enemy DDs? Only if you're not the one they're shooting at. Hatsu vs Mahan had good chances, but against a Benson? Nein.

 

---

 

And before you suggest spamming torps at maximum range, I'm already cringing. Repairs are expensive, torpedo reloads are expensive. I can't possibly fathom the dull lifestyle of a DD that pretends its guns don't exist under the optimistic hope that one of those torpedoes would hit something.

 

So yeah. Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I find Hatsu better than Fubuki.

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I'll take fubuki over hatsu anytime. Better concealment allows for closer torping right up to the border of scout plane detection and thus high damage potential even when the enemy tries to turn in.

 

If you predict right, you get an extremely thick torpedo wall that heavily punishes anyone trying to turn into it. As for the hatsu it just lacks that extra spread to cover for torpedo angle dispersion.

 

And the guns. The guns are delicious. Watch as enemy dds get their engine,rudder, torpedo tubes, guns broken and start burning. These guns far exceed the ones on the hatsu.

 

So yeah despite having worse agility and higher costs fubuki is much better da hatsuharu. Hang in there bro, just spam all your flags and go for caps if u really just need the exp and not damage.

 

I've ground through it and I love the fubuki. Too bad it's kagero life for me now.

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Worse rudder shift, worse turning radius, worse speed, worse torpedo arcs, worse torpedo reloads. MM against radar-equipped ships and planes that are harder to shoot down. Concealment is better than Hatsuharu- But only if you buy the expensive concealment upgrade.

 

The only saving grace is an additional turret for both the main batteries and torpedoes.

 

At least with Hatsuharu, I can comfortably dodge at 10km. Fubuki, even with rudder shift upgrade, can't hope to outmaneuver anything. It's slower than SN CAs with their 36kt max speed, and the wide turning radius guarantees that speed will bleed trying to evade. It has no hope of escaping pursuit from enemy DDs save for smoke- Let alone IJN cruisers with a 35kt max speed- Concealment won't help if they know you need to move in a straight line in order to remain hidden, even worse is that 203mm HE hits to the stern guarantee both rudder and engine incapacitations or when they use radar to hunt down your slow DD

 

Gun fights against enemy DDs? Only if you're not the one they're shooting at. Hatsu vs Mahan had good chances, but against a Benson? Nein.

 

---

 

And before you suggest spamming torps at maximum range, I'm already cringing. Repairs are expensive, torpedo reloads are expensive. I can't possibly fathom the dull lifestyle of a DD that pretends its guns don't exist under the optimistic hope that one of those torpedoes would hit something.

 

So yeah. Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I find Hatsu better than Fubuki.

 

Other than defensive capabilities like dodging with the better rudder shifts and turn circles and MM tiering, the extra gun and torpedo launcher pretty much compensates for the other worse things. Also, the AA scaling from Hatsu->Fubuki is much greater with the DP 12.7cm guns than the HP scaling of the tier of planes they encounter so overall it is better AA.

It might just be a playstyle thing but with the marginally worse defensive/dodging ability the Fubuki has with the Hatsuharu, the offensive capabilities are way better. 6 guns that have great HE alpha in a tier that you are almost always gonna get the first shot potentially around 3.5k HP damage per volley with the concealment is invaluable in domination caps. The torpedoes also have greater speeds that will almost always guarantee a hit if placed cleanly when launched at the edge of concealment, not to mention 9 torps a volley. At the very least, it isn't like the Mutsuki and Hatsuharu torpedoes which is pretty slow in comparison. The additional seconds in reload aren't even that noticeable.

 

But yeah, I also don't agree with the torps at max range. To be blunt, it's boring.

I like to duke it out with the superior gunboats with a Fubuki. Granted, it's not the best course of action but most of the time it works partly due to the underestimation of IJN DD guns.

 

Also, I'd rather take a Fubuki battling a Benson rather than a Hatsuharu battling a Mahan.

I know you know your stuff so I guess I'll chalk it up to a playstyle thing with the Hatsuharu being a better fit for you. :medal:

 

Edit: And as I was writing this, I check my stats with both and find out that I'm better off with the Hatsuharu. Well... that was awkward. :hiding:

Edited by SZYZWY

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A DD only stays afloat if it can dodge.

 

Cruisers, Battleships and even Carriers can last sustained fire, but destroyers with their lovely 10-20k HP pools can't fathom surviving long when spotted without either superior speed or maneuverability- Especially when higher-tier ships equate to experienced players capable of consistently landing hits.

 

Fubuki and Kagero lose on both categories in exchange for long-range torpedoes- That even other nations' counterparts have- With significantly better RoF for their main batteries.

 

Compared to games like WoT where armor is impenetrable to shells below a penetration threshold, even an Umikaze can knock out a Yamato using its main batteries given enough time if it dodges the return fire perfectly.

 

In short, survival for fragile ships when spotted is all about speed and maneuverability, and at that tier, radar becomes more or less common place, meaning that despite the captain's best efforts, Fubuki can and will get spotted in a match unless there or no DDs or radar-equipped cruisers in close vicinity.

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