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icy_phoenix

Frustrating MM over and over.

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Super Tester
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8,043 battles

This is the shit I have been getting into recently. Am I supposed to win this? None of our team mates even advanced. How the hell is even this come out of a MM. Drinking too much vodka and writing code produces this kind of routine. Below is an example (check attachment photo). 3 T8 BB for none? Even they were in a division? 2 gunboats and 1 torp boats vs our 3 torp boats? I really hope 0.5.8 fixes this. (btw, the MM in public test is still bad). So MM just assumes that filling one team with higher tier stuffs and asking for others to be super unicum in three seconds and win this?

 

Sorry for the ranting.

shot-16.07.03_20.51.39-0637.jpg

Edited by icy_phoenix

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4,686 battles

Patience, mate. Sometimes miracles happen. I was in my ognevoi, my team only have tier 4 cruiser, even 1 tier 3(fail div) enemy has 1 tier 6 bb, and 3 tier 6 cruiser and 1 tier 6dd. Total my team has 3 tier 6(1bb,2dd) and enemy has 5tier 6. But we slaughter the enemy team.. Only lost 3 ships, kills all enemy. Just keep shooting mate, just keep shooting

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Super Tester
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Yah I was hoping to be lucky like that, what happened is, losing games after games and all the shithead players are in my team. I am playing battleship cause I love battleships. I am doing 110K to 140K damage and still losing. I don't know it seems like I am not having any impact at all. Where do they find these players who still sail broadside to 3 battleships and hoping to do any good. We had players including DDs who hide all game. Shouldn't there be a player competence level in consideration somewhere in matchmaking? Losing 9 games in a row is not fun at all. I am not lying, you can see statistics of my recent games here. These are some of the games from today.

 

I even tried capping cause no one else would, still no luck. I'm so tired and sorry for ranting. But I am frustrated
                                                                                                                                         Today                        Last 7 Days                  Last 21 Days

Battles 435 20 41 92
Win rate 
Next level: Unicum (+1.6%)
58.39% 
Great
40% 
Bad
- 0.89%
43.9% 
Bad
- 1.51%
52.17% 
Good
- 1.67%
Personal Rating (PR)  
Next level: Very Good (+88)
1 462 
Good
1 613 
Very Good
+ 10
1 479 
Good
+ 4
1 458 
Good
- 2
Average battle values  
Damage 49 716 71 891
+ 1 069
61 575
+ 1 234
48 815
- 242
Destroyed warships 1.09 1.2
+ 0.01
1
- 0.01
0.91
- 0.05
Aircraft destroyed 1.52 1.95
+ 0.02
1.71
+ 0.02
1.61
+ 0.02
Experience 1 057 1 055
-
1 002
- 6
971
- 23
Kills / deaths 2.33 2
- 0.02
1.58
- 0.11
1.56
- 0.28
Edited by icy_phoenix

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15
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How would MM determine 'player competence level' ?

WR ? AvDamage ?  What about team play too.

How long would you want to wait for a game while MM tries to calculate and balance them out ?

 

Some games have been almost identical ship matching recently whilst other critically unbalanced...depends on who is in the queue I suppose.

 

Mostly we remember the bad match ups.

I haven't seen too many rants about having four T7 cruiser/destroyers on the ranter's side against one T7 and three T5s.

 

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Super Tester
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I haven't seen too many rants about having four T7 cruiser/destroyers on the ranter's side against one T7 and three T5s.

 

Yesterday I had those too. Simply a bad day. I know true fairness is not possible, but utterly unbalanced MM vs divisions is not fun, for neither team. I would wait 30 more seconds for a better MM. I don't want MM favor for my team, neither for the enemy. You know, when enemy team has 3 gunboats, I cannot ask my teams hatsuharu to push a cap, cause I know it is suicide. We often win unfavorable MMs, but that is only because enemy played poorly. I don't know any war strategy where you depend on your enemy to play poorly.

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Yesterday I had those too. Simply a bad day. I know true fairness is not possible, but utterly unbalanced MM vs divisions is not fun, for neither team. I would wait 30 more seconds for a better MM. I don't want MM favor for my team, neither for the enemy. You know, when enemy team has 3 gunboats, I cannot ask my teams hatsuharu to push a cap, cause I know it is suicide. We often win unfavorable MMs, but that is only because enemy played poorly. I don't know any war strategy where you depend on your enemy to play poorly.

 

Yes, you would think WoW could put some sort of weighting for different types of DDs for example so there is a more equal mix/balance of torpedo and gunboats on each side - after all they've been queued into the battle.

I suppose maybe the Hatsuharu could have had cruiser support to keep the gunboats at bay - sounds good in theory but hard to convince some team members to actually support their fellows at times.

 

Doing well against mostly higher tier ships can bring a sense of achievement but not so much for the opposite situation.

I would hope the majority players would like to compete on a "level playing" field unlike a lot of professional sport where they hope their opponents are  handicapped in some way.

 

Most defeats are usually a result of poor play or decisions rather than brilliant play on the victor's part.

MM can add to that indignity by handicapping you with a badly composed 'fleet' for the battle.

An awful lot of Youtube replays with large damage or kill counts display the enemy sailing broadside at a leisurely pace in front of a destroyer in smoke or a battleship.

 

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Super Tester
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Most defeats are usually a result of poor play or decisions rather than brilliant play on the victor's part.

MM can add to that indignity by handicapping you with a badly composed 'fleet' for the battle.

An awful lot of Youtube replays with large damage or kill counts display the enemy sailing broadside at a leisurely pace in front of a destroyer in smoke or a battleship.

 

 

Totally agree man. I used to play in NA server before. In SEA server, number of broadsiding fool's are much lower. Real problem I'm facing in this server is communication. Often I follow few cruisers, then suddenly they turn tail for no reason, and guess what, I'm dead. The surprising amount of cruiser players , half of them have no idea about what they are doing. I often randomly check player stats. For some one with 4k games with 25k average damage at tier 7 or 8 ships, I think there are other easier games for them than this.

Edited by icy_phoenix

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I've seen quite a few games recently where CVs & BBs have been left at the mercy of DDs or CLs that have snuck/sneaked into the base area while a bunch of cruisers are busily farming ribbons and damage off a single battleship. Rarely will any of these guys even try to turn around and help their own capital ships until it is way too late. Several times I've tried to help the CV/BB and maybe sunk/badly damaged an infiltrator or two and only then these cruisers may finally turn up to pick off if they are low HPs. 

Quite a few maybe competent players but are not utilising their skills to help their side which adds another factor into MMs balancing equations. A bit like some actual naval battles: miss-reading signals, ignoring directions, outfoxed by the enemy etc.

 

Maybe some of the missions and challenges are driving this behaviour - after all it is more efficient to target a battleship for these rewards; greater hit percentage & more damage potential than a dodging destroyer.

 

"Often I follow few cruisers, then suddenly they turn tail for no reason, and guess what, I'm dead."  Know that feeling.

Also always a worry when you see a division or team of cruisers or any other ship and their partners are spawned on the other side of the map (particularly Strait - ugh!) and they nick off to join their buddies straight away leaving an unbalanced force on one side....especially if the other ships on that side of the map are are slower.

 

 

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Member
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Yesterday, was in 3 battles where MM fixed my team with T1 and T2 ships. If I recall, the battles were T3-T5 while I was in a T4 (grinding BB line recently). In all the cases, it was because of T3 players in divisions with T1 and T2 ships. Something really need to be done with the MM logic dealing with divisions

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Always being put into +2 tier match while my team +1 or same tier as me..even work together killing and fighting ships 2 tiers higher in the end we easily get wiped out

 

thats why i lost alot because being put into such disadvantage

 

aand when we rant here everyone will quickly check your stat and say you must improve lol

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i had some terrible mm even with same tier players yesterday. all i can say is: we win some and we lose some.

 

if lose too many match in a row, close client, come back next day and avoid rage.

 

and yes, fighting +2 feels crazy sometimes when they can 1 delete my cruiser.

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Totally agree man. I used to play in NA server before. In SEA server, number of broadsiding fool's are much lower. Real problem I'm facing in this server is communication. Often I follow few cruisers, then suddenly they turn tail for no reason, and guess what, I'm dead. The surprising amount of cruiser players , half of them have no idea about what they are doing. I often randomly check player stats. For some one with 4k games with 25k average damage at tier 7 or 8 ships, I think there are other easier games for them than this.

 

'number of broadsiding fool's are much lower'

So that's why Notser and iChase's videos look so great even though I see many things that I do better

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Other servers are less pragmatic. It's clear ours are the triest of the hardest.

 

And this, Icy, is why you div.

 

You cut the number of unreliable people by the number of div mates you have.

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Super Tester
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Always being put into +2 tier match while my team +1 or same tier as me..even work together killing and fighting ships 2 tiers higher in the end we easily get wiped out

 

thats why i lost alot because being put into such disadvantage

 

aand when we rant here everyone will quickly check your stat and say you must improve lol

 

That's why I started with a link to my profile to help the process. However, I am always trying to be better. Sometimes they are just not enough. The day I posted the thread, I got about 6 complements from the enemy team, cause my team were non-existent and I was trying to do something alone lol. Doesn't work at the end in a team game. In a division, I always got good results, but in solo queue, playing even better than I do in a division, losing battles. Curse of playing slow speed and slow rate of fire big bulky battleships I say.

 

 

 

'number of broadsiding fool's are much lower'

So that's why Notser and iChase's videos look so great even though I see many things that I do better

 

Yeah, I am able to citadel hits sometimes, but that is when I catch people in a turn. But you know, number of players in NA server is much larger, that means number of fools are larger there too. Plus, if you carefully see their video (I love these channels, don't get me wrong), people are hardly shooting at them even when they are broadside as well, that hardly happens in asia.

 

 

Other servers are less pragmatic. It's clear ours are the triest of the hardest.

 

And this, Icy, is why you div.

 

You cut the number of unreliable people by the number of div mates you have.

 

My "regular" division mates are recently no where to be found. So I am trying solo queue, and it is horrible. Only thing I'm getting up is the average damage :D

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That's why I started with a link to my profile to help the process. However, I am always trying to be better. Sometimes they are just not enough. The day I posted the thread, I got about 6 complements from the enemy team, cause my team were non-existent and I was trying to do something alone lol. Doesn't work at the end in a team game. In a division, I always got good results, but in solo queue, playing even better than I do in a division, losing battles. Curse of playing slow speed and slow rate of fire big bulky battleships I say.

 

Stats are useless and doesnt answer anything

 

Even you div up the few of you can't win the match, win or lose still depends how the whole team perform and there are so many variables as well.

 

I dont play much anymore because i lost alot every day and its getting boring and a big waste of time. I know how to play i know what to do but my sadly always in poor teams or in disadvantage teams.

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Super Tester
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Team formation should not be decisive. WG released patch notes for upcoming 0.5.8 version.

 

There is a section about new matchmaking mechanics:

 

 

Improved Matchmaker

In version 0.5.8, we will launch a new and improved matchmaker for the Random Battles mode. The purpose of this change is to exclude situations where players can immediately guess the outcome of a battle based on the composition of the teams, and to make confrontations more honest. The features of the new matchmaker are as follows:

  • Situations where opposing teams appear to have different numbers of players are completely excluded
  • Aircraft carriers in opposing teams will continue to belong to the same Tier
  • In every battle, we have "Battle Tiers", i.e. the maximum tier of a ship for a given battle. Ships of Tiers corresponding to the Tier of the battle are called "tops" or "top ships". The following rules will apply to them:
    • Maximum difference in the number of divisions between the teams is limited and now equals 1
    • Maximum difference in the number of destroyers between the teams is limited and now equals 1
    • Maximum difference in the number of battleships between the teams is limited and now equals 1
    • Maximum difference in the number of cruisers between the teams is limited and now equals 2

b10b133c-4260-11e6-84be-38eaa7374f3c_120

  • For each type, the number of top ships will be strictly symmetrical. For example, if in a Tier VIII battle one team has two Tier VIII battleships, two Tier IX cruisers and one Tier VIII destroyer, the other team will also have two Tier VIII battleships, two Tier IX cruisers and one Tier VIII destroyer
  • The above rule also applies to battleships belonging to a Tier that is one step lower than the Tier of the battle. For example, if in a Tier VIII battle one team has one Tier VII battleship, the other team will also have one Tier VII battleship

86f530a2-42ae-11e6-bbd9-38eaa7374f3c_120

After the launch of these first matchmaker improvements, we plan to solve three more high-priority issues within the next few versions:

  • We intend to apply the new matchmaking rules to other types of battles (co-op and ranked battles) to ensure better team balance
  • According to some technical issues, the logic of the new matchmaker does not take into account nations and their distribution within teams. It means that theoretically there can appear a situation when three Japanese destroyers are against three American destroyers. We treat this rule as a necessary one and will work on putting it back.
  • Since we added divisions in the game, players were allowed to gather ships with great disparity in terms of Tiers (low-tier ships could join divisions with high-tier ships). Despite the fact that this option sometimes helps players who know each other to play together, most part of our audience do not find this to be beneficial to gameplay in general. For this reason, why this option is likely to be reconsidered.

We are still assessing the usefulness and appropriateness of the following allowances:

  • If it takes too long to assemble teams for a battle for whatever reason, battles may be fought between teams with an incomplete lineup (11х11, 10х10 etc.)
  • Balancing low-Tier ships outside of their type is allowed. For example, a Tier VIII battle could involve a Tier VI destroyer against a Tier VI battleship, and Tier VII cruiser against Tier VII destroyer.
  • Balancing two same-type ships with enemy ships of adjacent Tiers is allowed if they are not in the top of the team and if they are not battleships. For example, in a Tier VIII battle, a Tier VI cruiser could find herself against a Tier VII cruiser on the opposing team.

Meanwhile, the World of Warships developers would like to express their gratitude to all commanders who sent in their ideas and comments regarding the matchmaker. We will continue to collect your feedback on update 0.5.8 to make the process of selecting ships for a battle fair and enjoyable for all players.

 

I'm not sure about the impact, but I think queue time will increase and I don't mind that.

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I hope that War gaming takes into acount peoples win rate .For instance i would trather have ships on my team with %55 or abov win rate and be 2 tiers lower than the enemy every day of the week . I hate it when i look up other peoples stats in our top Tier ships and see they are less than %50 . Its not the fact that they are less than %50 its the fact that when you give them advice ,such as stop hiding come out so they have more than 1 target to shoot at support the team ,or even asking them what they are doing on the border of the map when there isnt one single ship in that quadrant .They report you . now i am by no means a skillful player but my stats were up at %60 win rate then for some reason for a week every one on my team had a win rate of at or below %46 even when they are top Tier . So i guess my point is yes some ships have an advantage over other ships .This is not Tanks however a Cleveland can rape in a Tier 8 match if the p-layer is skilled enough .So being the only top Tier in a match is not the end of the battle ,being the only top Tier on your team full of %46ers sure as shit makes it very difficult to win if not impossible . i was in one match when i had a win rate of %57 there was only one other person on my team who had a win rate above %50 , the first 4 i checked on the other team all had win rates of %55 and above , that is alot worse than having a team full of lower tiered ship . 

 

This is however my own opinion . my opinion will always be changed by facts that prove me wrong and I will say thank you Sir for teaching me something new .

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Other servers are less pragmatic. It's clear ours are the triest of the hardest.

 

If that's true then our server is the equivalent of a superstar-laden football team where each and every player plays for his individual glory rather than focusing on winning for the team

 

i hate that kind of team with a passion of a thousand suns

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[L6G]
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None of WG games have WR based match maker. If you are using a third party mod to see the player WR, and basing your game play in it, I suggest you turn it off, it will only cause you grief,

 

 

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Super Tester
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WR wasn't the main concern. Being in a team that is at disadvantage from the start breaks moral of players. If both teams have competent players, it just drags on to reach the inevitable result.

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1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-10.

 

Game balance improves and balancing ships becomes MUCH easier.

Devs don't play their own game though, that's why it took 2 years to patch Tiger-2.

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Super Tester
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Even in 5.8, mm is still not that great. Our team had a hatsu to no dd at all in enemy. Though he died quickly since most dd players have ego bigger than their brain and don't know when to back down and give ground. But that's not the point. 5.8 did one thing though, mirror highest tier bb. At least a start.

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Even in 5.8, mm is still not that great. Our team had a hatsu to no dd at all in enemy. Though he died quickly since most dd players have ego bigger than their brain and don't know when to back down and give ground. But that's not the point. 5.8 did one thing though, mirror highest tier bb. At least a start.

 

some improvement but still some work to do, in a match with enemy having 3 tirpitz but my team only having colorado and fuso..even class to class is even but enemy having more higher tier wins the match

 

also not very often i'm being put into +2 match anymore, this a big improvement for me

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