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ak2047_2

Suggestions for matchmaking of tier 3 - 5 battles with only 1 aircraft carrier on each side

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[JESOS]
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With different kinds of warship to play together is fun. However, at tier 3 - 5 where warships are lack of AA power, aircraft carriers becomes overpowered. Especially when one side carriers were sunk by the other one. There is nothing can stop the remained carriers. 

 

My suggestion is to limit 1 aircraft carrier on each side for tier 3 - 5 battles. Even if the carrier was sunk, the other side cannot be too dominated for the final results due to the aircraft back-and-forth flight time. The side which lost carrier can still buy some time to fight back and hopefully to break through.

 

For tier 6 and above, the warships are well armed with AA weapons, the game can keep on to have 2 aircraft carriers on each side.

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Super Tester
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With different kinds of warship to play together is fun. However, at tier 3 - 5 where warships are lack of AA power, aircraft carriers becomes overpowered. Especially when one side carriers were sunk by the other one. There is nothing can stop the remained carriers. 

 

My suggestion is to limit 1 aircraft carrier on each side for tier 3 - 5 battles. Even if the carrier was sunk, the other side cannot be too dominated for the final results due to the aircraft back-and-forth flight time. The side which lost carrier can still buy some time to fight back and hopefully to break through.

 

For tier 6 and above, the warships are well armed with AA weapons, the game can keep on to have 2 aircraft carriers on each side.

 

Wait, if there are 1v1 carrier, then your claim "Especially when one side carriers were sunk by the other one. There is nothing can stop the remained carriers." is still going to take place. Also you do know that, most of the tier 5 carrier players are seal clubbers. New player will never have a chance if the enemy is a seal clubber (aka someone with air supremacy). Also, this might discourage CV games even more.

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Wait, if there are 1v1 carrier, then your claim "Especially when one side carriers were sunk by the other one. There is nothing can stop the remained carriers." is still going to take place. Also you do know that, most of the tier 5 carrier players are seal clubbers. New player will never have a chance if the enemy is a seal clubber (aka someone with air supremacy). Also, this might discourage CV games even more.

 

How frequent do sealclubbers frequent low tiers? As it is, I keep on hearing about them in increasing frequency.

 

To the OP, please try to adapt. At T4-T5 they are mostly new players, so expect them to screw up in some way. Their planes are also sort of slow.

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How frequent do sealclubbers frequent low tiers? As it is, I keep on hearing about them in increasing frequency.

 

To the OP, please try to adapt. At T4-T5 they are mostly new players, so expect them to screw up in some way. Their planes are also sort of slow.

 

Umm from my experience, 1 out of each 3, specially Bogues.

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[BRU]
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1 out of 3 is much higher than I previously thought... Must be clear sky farmers.

 

There are some who play low tier CV for farming credits, like me. I have my Bogue upgraded with torpedo acceleration, and I always play low tier CV for farming credits to compensate my repair bills from playing my Yamato and Iowa, which are expensive ships to repair.

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[JESOS]
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Case happened at Tier 3 -5 battles is high skilled CV player sink one of the other side CV at start, the remained CV cannot turn the tide against 2 CV. Sooner it will be sunk too. Then the balance between both sides will be even lower. Because the rest of ships will be attacked by 2 CV. Without efficient AA, there is no chance to win. Because of losing 2 CV, the low tier game balance is highly affected.

 

If there is only 1 CV instead of 2, then the outcome will not be that serious than previous case.

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Case happened at Tier 3 -5 battles is high skilled CV player sink one of the other side CV at start, the remained CV cannot turn the tide against 2 CV. Sooner it will be sunk too. Then the balance between both sides will be even lower. Because the rest of ships will be attacked by 2 CV. Without efficient AA, there is no chance to win. Because of losing 2 CV, the low tier game balance is highly affected.

 

If there is only 1 CV instead of 2, then the outcome will not be that serious than previous case.

 

Let's be honest without hurting anyone's feelings, low tier CV standing in one team while the other team's one is dead isnt really a big deal. Both the noob and the clubber CV players hardly offer any AA support to any ship than selfish themselves. Also, unlike high tier, getting rid of a CV at the beginning is a bit harder and plane reserves are low. We have won many games where enemy had CVs vs none of ours, and still won. Ofcourse good CV players can ruin your day, good BB or CA players can easily ruin CVs day too.

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Super Tester
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However, at tier 3 - 5 where warships are lack of AA power, aircraft carriers becomes overpowered. E

 

Gotta Mighty Mio harder.

 

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Let's be honest without hurting anyone's feelings, low tier CV standing in one team while the other team's one is dead isnt really a big deal. Both the noob and the clubber CV players hardly offer any AA support to any ship than selfish themselves. Also, unlike high tier, getting rid of a CV at the beginning is a bit harder and plane reserves are low. We have won many games where enemy had CVs vs none of ours, and still won. Ofcourse good CV players can ruin your day, good BB or CA players can easily ruin CVs day too.

 

its works both ways to , you noobs in cruisers and battleships run of leaving cv undefended 90% of the time , i play a AA load out on my bogue and try to protect my fleet  i get almost no thx for it .

 

stop being stupid and not dodging torps from planes them blaming the cv is getting really old .

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Super Tester
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its works both ways to , you noobs in cruisers and battleships run of leaving cv undefended 90% of the time , i play a AA load out on my bogue and try to protect my fleet  i get almost no thx for it .

 

stop being stupid and not dodging torps from planes them blaming the cv is getting really old .

 

I might have played small amount of battles in this server, but I am not a noob. Do I get thanks for killing 5 enemy ships from a CV player? of course not. you don't expect "thanks" for doing what you are supposed to do. and you didnt read properly, I said "noob and clubbers". normal cv players do get thanks for their fine job.

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I also take issue with the attitude of most of the captains that don't play CV.

 

How would you define noob and clubbers?

 

Killing 5 ships to me hardly matters  and its actually relatively common especially if you.re a habitual kill stealer. All that killing 5 ships means is that you deal the finishing blow 5 times. Killing 5 ships doesn't matter if your base gets overrun or  the enemy holds all 3 caps in a domination mode battle.

 

When I play low tier CVs I never get  support or screening from any other ship on my team and I am most often sunk. by a ship that sails through the gaps in a supposed screen that are so wide you could sail a BB through and not get spotted.

And it happens in the first 4 minutes of the battle sometimes. Bogues and langelys cant keep up with anything else and if they are spotted are as good as dead. In fact any CV that is spotted is as good as dead as every single ship thats not a CV forgets what they are doing and and shoots at the CV.

 

Why should I give AA support to ships that cant be bothered to protect me that half the time seem to have their AA turned off  and camp behind the CV? They also think the CV is their personal spotting service..

 

My experience has been every single time a BB asks for spotting a DD is about to sink me and the BB is no help at all. If the BB is near me the BB is next on the chopping block after me.

 

I gave up the AS loadout because  it just isn't worth it when you get no support from the rest of your team. Sinking the enemy CV removes all of the aforementioned TB and DB problems

 

I have stopped using the air superiority load out almost entirely because the damage output is gimped and you get no thanks from anyone who has a wave of bombers strafed from on top of them.  I will no longer be using the Air superiority load out until I actually see other ships protecting the CV on a regular basis. I would expect the heat death of the universe and hell to freeze over before that happens.

 

You non CV players are just reaping what you sow non supportive CVs because you dont support or protect your CV.

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I might have played small amount of battles in this server, but I am not a noob. Do I get thanks for killing 5 enemy ships from a CV player? of course not. you don't expect "thanks" for doing what you are supposed to do. and you didnt read properly, I said "noob and clubbers". normal cv players do get thanks for their fine job.

 

i say gj whenever someone kills a target , im hopping it will get the cowards to do something 

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Super Tester
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With different kinds of warship to play together is fun. However, at tier 3 - 5 where warships are lack of AA power, aircraft carriers becomes overpowered. Especially when one side carriers were sunk by the other one. There is nothing can stop the remained carriers. 

 

My suggestion is to limit 1 aircraft carrier on each side for tier 3 - 5 battles. Even if the carrier was sunk, the other side cannot be too dominated for the final results due to the aircraft back-and-forth flight time. The side which lost carrier can still buy some time to fight back and hopefully to break through.

 

For tier 6 and above, the warships are well armed with AA weapons, the game can keep on to have 2 aircraft carriers on each side.

 

Question: Is AA the only aspect you can use to evade air attacks as tier 3~5 ships?

 

As early as tier 3 & while you go up to tier 10, you gotta practice to navigate your ship and dodge torpedo & bombing run. And not only depend on your AA. That's my opinion.

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i say gj whenever someone kills a target , im hopping it will get the cowards to do something 

 

Oh, there is also another issue, mostly in sea server is, when players ask, hey CV you need AA support, about 50% times the response is "no, I'm fine", about 5% says "yes", and then someone stick around them, the rest 45% either don't know how to read or write English, or they don't care to reply when a team mate ask for something. Communication and good behavior, and encouraging statements go a long way in team games. Hope everyone will understand that.

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I also take issue with the attitude of most of the captains that don't play CV.

 

How would you define noob and clubbers?

 

Killing 5 ships to me hardly matters  and its actually relatively common especially if you.re a habitual kill stealer. All that killing 5 ships means is that you deal the finishing blow 5 times. Killing 5 ships doesn't matter if your base gets overrun or  the enemy holds all 3 caps in a domination mode battle.

 

When I play low tier CVs I never get  support or screening from any other ship on my team and I am most often sunk. by a ship that sails through the gaps in a supposed screen that are so wide you could sail a BB through and not get spotted.

And it happens in the first 4 minutes of the battle sometimes. Bogues and langelys cant keep up with anything else and if they are spotted are as good as dead. In fact any CV that is spotted is as good as dead as every single ship thats not a CV forgets what they are doing and and shoots at the CV.

 

Why should I give AA support to ships that cant be bothered to protect me that half the time seem to have their AA turned off  and camp behind the CV? They also think the CV is their personal spotting service..

 

My experience has been every single time a BB asks for spotting a DD is about to sink me and the BB is no help at all. If the BB is near me the BB is next on the chopping block after me.

 

I gave up the AS loadout because  it just isn't worth it when you get no support from the rest of your team. Sinking the enemy CV removes all of the aforementioned TB and DB problems

 

I have stopped using the air superiority load out almost entirely because the damage output is gimped and you get no thanks from anyone who has a wave of bombers strafed from on top of them.  I will no longer be using the Air superiority load out until I actually see other ships protecting the CV on a regular basis. I would expect the heat death of the universe and hell to freeze over before that happens.

 

You non CV players are just reaping what you sow non supportive CVs because you dont support or protect your CV.

 

I don't know where you play, but my experience is kinda different. Everyone goes for a DD kill cause it ensures high amount of XP, much higher than killing a BB. You have played nearly 8K games, a true veteran, but how it is possible that you have such low average damage? Are you the kill stealer type? At lower tier, like T4 and T5, most of the ships do not have defensive fire or good AA, I don't think you can win by yourself, if other ships guard you while you stay still behind a mountain, who is going to kill the enemy. CV support is important mainly from mid to high tier in my opinion.

 

The OP asked about low tiers. This is also another point for that. if teams have 2 CVs each, it is easier for them to help each other. You may try asking for support, there is no shame in asking. There is no guarantee that u will get help, but there is a chance. Better than not asking for help at all and then going back to port quickly. 

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Well if youve seen my stats then obviously i am playing on the SEA server.

My damage is low because of a few reasons.

 

Firstly I have played every liine up to T6 and only the russian CA line is at the level all my others are at T7 or 8 with one exception the USN CA line which is up to the baltimore.

I have 93 ships in my port counting the ARP ones and 88 if youre not.

When I first started I sucked really badly. how badly? at 1k battles i was around 10k average damage and win rate around 40 percent. it wasnt until nearly 4kbattles I got over 20k damge. and my win rate at that time was something like 47 percent. that was 6 months ago. in the last 3 month the overall average has shifted by 10 percent roughly.

Why would i reroll when I have 88 ships including nearly every premium under T7.  Think of the time I would lose as well as the money.

 

Wouldn't a kill stealer like have abetter KDR than 0.86? I could say something similar having a look at your stats. Like you spend all your time camping up the back of the map as a BB. Your skilled at surviving till the end stages of the battle i don't get how your accurracy is so low yet your damage so high.

 

As far as AA goes most of the T5 ships actually have reasonably good AA. They can shoot down squadrons of T7 planes occasionally. Once or twice I have lost all the planes in a pair of Saiapn squadrons in like 30 seconds. that is exceedingly rare though and it wasn't the Texas that did it.

 

Actually i know that it is entirely possible to win by yourself as a T4 or 5 CV.  I have the screenshots and replays to prove it.

 

As a low tier CV you are slightly less visible than  than the cruisers of the same tier for the USN line and some where between cruisers and DDs for the IJN line. Its not till you get up to the higher tiers that youre highly visible as a CV. Running CE instead of air superiority on your captain skills would mean that you could be much more aggressive.

 

You only need 1 CA to guard a CV as it will mostly be surface threats like DDs.The number of games at T5 and 5 I have seen lost because the team let my CV be over run and killed even though I was killing a ship or 2 every sortie is relatively frequent. Naturally it is the BBs that are running away from our cap base or outright refusing to go anywhere near the cap points. They often say CV run but they don't understand that a langley or bogue can't out run anything.

 

I tend to go out of my way to support other CV players on my team mainly  in the area of fending of sniping attempts and at low tier the low number of spares means that a thwarted snipe attempt will result in the CVs being safe until the end game alot of the time.

I have tried asking for support repeatedly but the silence is deafening.

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Super Tester
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At low tiers, I don't really think sniping is a very good idea since planes are slow and reserves are also very low. You are probably witnessing a sealclubber whack a seal, but hey, there are no rules against sealclubbers in WOWS.

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[JESOS]
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I want  to address that only tier 6 or above cruisers can use "Defensive AA consumable" except the tier 4 premium ship "Yubari".  Tier 3 - 4 battleships, cruisers, destroyers have very little or non significant help to our team to defend aircrafts.  When a CV calls for help to fight against incoming warplanes. There is not much we can do with 5 damages per second in 1.2km. For example, a Zuiho upgraded torpedo bomber squadron has over 1200 hit points, it will take 6 minutes to destroy it if it remains in 1.2km range.

 

If the other team has  a Zuiho and a Hosho, together with 4 torpedo squadrons, they can ruin our team no matter how well we try to play the game. Even if you can evade 1 torpedo attack, here comes another wave, the torpedos are all surrounding you by  several squadrons. That's why I suggest to reduce the number of CV at low tier. I am not saying to remove all CV from the game.

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I want  to address that only tier 6 or above cruisers can use "Defensive AA consumable" except the tier 4 premium ship "Yubari".  Tier 3 - 4 battleships, cruisers, destroyers have very little or non significant help to our team to defend aircrafts.  When a CV calls for help to fight against incoming warplanes. There is not much we can do with 5 damages per second in 1.2km. For example, a Zuiho upgraded torpedo bomber squadron has over 1200 hit points, it will take 6 minutes to destroy it if it remains in 1.2km range.

 

If the other team has  a Zuiho and a Hosho, together with 4 torpedo squadrons, they can ruin our team no matter how well we try to play the game. Even if you can evade 1 torpedo attack, here comes another wave, the torpedos are all surrounding you by  several squadrons. That's why I suggest to reduce the number of CV at low tier. I am not saying to remove all CV from the game.

Hitting DDs is not easy at low tiers since they are so small and agile. DD drops are higher tier skills usually used by experienced CV captains. I really am not the fan of alienating new CV players.

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I want  to address that only tier 6 or above cruisers can use "Defensive AA consumable" except the tier 4 premium ship "Yubari".  Tier 3 - 4 battleships, cruisers, destroyers have very little or non significant help to our team to defend aircrafts.  When a CV calls for help to fight against incoming warplanes. There is not much we can do with 5 damages per second in 1.2km. For example, a Zuiho upgraded torpedo bomber squadron has over 1200 hit points, it will take 6 minutes to destroy it if it remains in 1.2km range.

 

If the other team has  a Zuiho and a Hosho, together with 4 torpedo squadrons, they can ruin our team no matter how well we try to play the game. Even if you can evade 1 torpedo attack, here comes another wave, the torpedos are all surrounding you by  several squadrons. That's why I suggest to reduce the number of CV at low tier. I am not saying to remove all CV from the game.

 

Yeah, at lower tier everyone is really busy with their own tactics, and team play is not very common apart from division mates. Well, about the second part, actually I think it will be a bad idea to go after someone with such heavy strike if the target is not isolated, cause they will endure heavy plane loss.

 

At low tiers, I don't really think sniping is a very good idea since planes are slow and reserves are also very low. You are probably witnessing a sealclubber whack a seal, but hey, there are no rules against sealclubbers in WOWS.

 

But many people try to do this, and many fail, only few succeeds. You know, there is always a bigger fish. Sniping at lower tier takes time, and often maps are so small that enemy will see your planes already at mid map or at some border.

 

View PostMoganite, on 28 June 2016 - 08:40 PM, said:

I could say something similar having a look at your stats. Like you spend all your time camping up the back of the map as a BB. Your skilled at surviving till the end stages of the battle i don't get how your accurracy is so low yet your damage so high.

 

Just checked my BB accuracy, they are on average 22% to 27%. If you think this is "so low accuracy", it just proves you have no clue whatsoever about battleships in the game. And no, this is not high damage, it was even more before I tried to play tier 4 and 5 cruisers, they brought down my wr and avg. dmg slightly. I pulled out your stats to see how well you do in a CV or other types. Yes I don't play CV. But I have an understanding of how a CV should be played. Let me tell you, at T4 and T5, people can't help you much even if they wanted to. The AA rating of anything up to T5 other than a CV is pretty horrible. As ak2047 above mentioned it. Instead of blaming your losses on team-mates, try to watch some good tutorials and try to take good advises from people. I learnt so many things from youtube. I am yet to have some of those super high damaging games, but I try to follow all the good principles, and I am most certainly not a camper (I have uploaded some vids on my channel too, they are not amazing, but better than average). I have unlocked up to T7 BBs so far, and these are not really camping BB.

 

The point of the thread is, the OP pointed out, games become unwinnable with 2 CV in one side and 0 on the other. So he suggested to limit it up to 1v1, and we are just sharing some thoughts about why 1v1 will not be the best choice. If you have some input other than telling other class of ship players kill stealer or camper or accusing team mates for not being able to win or baby-sot you at tier 4/5, that would be helpful. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I support what the TS is suggesting. Mostly because new players know little to none about AA.

1v1 CV at Tier III to V is a good start to introduce the menace of the sky to the little chickies.

 

Whenever I got myself into 2v2 CV matches, my best bet is either side is going to get sealclubbed, especially on my team. Yeah, my luck always suck in that aspect.

What I can do is to tell my teammates to combine our AA for the first wave of planes, and you stray, you die a lonely death. Sometime, it works.

 

There was one time I spent more than 5 minutes chasing after enemy planes that targeted my team's CVs who didn't planned evasive manoeuvre in advance. Understandably it was Big Race map, it's a small map. I only shot down 9 planes.

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I am against restricting low tier CVs to one perside for Battles of T4 and 5 because it would  give seal clubbing CVs even more of an adavantage. It would make sniping even easier

With only 1 T4 or 5 CV there is only 1 fighter unless the bogue is running Air superiority.  With only 1 fighter per CV if you want to snipe you tie down the fighter and send your bombers in. Usually CVs  particularly the langely and bogue at low tier hide at the back of the map and are isolated and thus easy kills. They also severely reduce the damage that they can do.

 

If  in a battle with 2 CVs one team loses both of them the Team is often already losing in a big way and losing the 2 CVs is just another reason why the team is losing.

 

As far as AA is concerned the statement that CVs have the strongest AA at low tier isn't completely true. The fighters are the most flexible part of any AA defence of the CV and taking out the enemy CV fighters is the biggest step to winning the air war..

For Tier 4 both the Myogi and Wyoming have stronger AA than the CV ship of each nation and that is for top hulls on the relevant ships but before captain skills.

 

For T5 is a bit more complex.  First all stock T5 ships have relatively bad AA. For the top hulls the AA relative AA strengths in general are CV then BB then CA then DD. The relative AA rating after that can be influenced by modules and captain skills used. It doesn't take much for the AA rating of a BB to exceed the AA rating of the CV itself if the CV is not enhancing the ships AA.

AT T5 you get an additional upgrade slot which has an option to increase the AA  and secondary ranges and that can contribute  a big gain To AA effectiveness and it stacks with AFT and BFT

The 2 strongest Non CV ships are the Kongo and the Kirov at T5 and are Have AA suites that are only a little weaker.

The USN line of DDs starting at the nicholas get the AA defensive fire as an option instead of engine boost.

All T5 Cruisers except the Kirov get catapult fighters.

Just checked my BB accuracy, they are on average 22% to 27%. If you think this is "so low accuracy", it just proves you have no clue whatsoever about battleships in the game. And no, this is not high damage, it was even more before I tried to play tier 4 and 5 cruisers, they brought down my wr and avg. dmg slightly. I pulled out your stats to see how well you do in a CV or other types. Yes I don't play CV. But I have an understanding of how a CV should be played. Let me tell you, at T4 and T5, people can't help you much even if they wanted to. The AA rating of anything up to T5 other than a CV is pretty horrible. As ak2047 above mentioned it. Instead of blaming your losses on team-mates, try to watch some good tutorials and try to take good advises from people. I learnt so many things from youtube. I am yet to have some of those super high damaging games, but I try to follow all the good principles, and I am most certainly not a camper (I have uploaded some vids on my channel too, they are not amazing, but better than average). I have unlocked up to T7 BBs so far, and these are not really camping BB.

 

The point of the thread is, the OP pointed out, games become unwinnable with 2 CV in one side and 0 on the other. So he suggested to limit it up to 1v1, and we are just sharing some thoughts about why 1v1 will not be the best choice. If you have some input other than telling other class of ship players kill stealer or camper or accusing team mates for not being able to win or baby-sot you at tier 4/5, that would be helpful. 

 

 

  You started with The aspersions on CVs.

 

Let's be honest without hurting anyone's feelings, low tier CV standing in one team while the other team's one is dead isnt really a big deal. Both the noob and the clubber CV players hardly offer any AA support to any ship than selfish themselves. Also, unlike high tier, getting rid of a CV at the beginning is a bit harder and plane reserves are low. We have won many games where enemy had CVs vs none of ours, and still won. Ofcourse good CV players can ruin your day, good BB or CA players can easily ruin CVs day too.
 

 

It just shows how ignorant you are of what CVs do and how they do it. You have no clue do you there could be any of a number of reasons a CV doesn't provide Air cover

 

You say you have an understanding of CV Gameplay yet you have no Battles in them.  Would you trust any one of the street to give you a haircut or work on your car or build a bridge or defend you in court because they say they have an understanding of the task at hand?

 

 

As far as blaming the team what the when they all lemming train or refuse to go anywhere near a cap point or mill around aimlessly in those situations the team will lose 95 percent of the time.  And yes I will Call them out on it. If you can find even one instance of me calling someone a kill stealer i would be  a little surprised.  I don't particularly care how the enemy gets killed only that they are.  

 

You misunderstand the importance of having decent accuracy and how it applies to Battleships

You Neglected to mention that your Fuso and Nagato Accuracies are 17 and 21 perecent respectively.

 

Being able to lead and fire and hit your targets  effectively is a fundamental part of the game even for BBs. Your statements show how clueless you are about basic skills and mechanics of the game. The more often you hit the more often you do damage and sink ships

 

Also my personal standard for accuracy is anything below 30 percent Needs work. I consider 25 percent barely adequate and below that various shades of bad.  in any rate where the server average for a particular ship for accuracy is higher than 30 percent I want to be above that preferably at least 1 standard deviation above that.  Youre happy with being average I'm not. and that applies to damage also. If you cant use your weapons effectively you might as well not be there.

 

 You wish to continue  this argument at east move it to private messages

Edited by Moganite

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two is better than one , especially when your teammates squad got caught, you shoot shoot both teams into the sea.  (Kidding)

Also, low tier AA are shit.I tried to use the same tactic as in the tier 6 - 7 battles, pulling enermy fighters to friendly AA fire range. However, none of them fall from the sky. there were two wyomming and one kuma. the result was all my TB got eaten. that why teo CV is better than one. If the other one is a average CV player, he will notice you need help and save your planes asses. Also, more planes more damage output and more tactics. you can ruin a BB players day put bombing it with 3-4 TB squard, which you can't do it with only one CV. 
Learn how to cooperate and protect your CV. 

 

Finally, i like my Hosho, especially when the tier 4 CA/CL take four of my torps and sink to the bottom of the sea. More important, the AA in low tier are shit, BB and CV can do some damage but not CA/CL. 

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