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Stein_Grenadier

So I need help with Cruisers

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Take a peek at my stats first.

 

I am slightly above average in anything except for 2 classes. Namely, battleships and cruisers.

 

I have Myoko set as my primary cruiser. I've almost exclusively used her for 3 days with no remarkable results.

I tend to pick hydro over AA, even when solo because I like to charge in rather than fire at maximum range like one of them.

I am fairly confident in my capability to shoot even DDs once they're spotted save for Kievs. Same goes for my torpedobeats (Hence no AA).

I tend to die after capping.

 

...

 

Does that make me one of those rare cruiser caps that actually contest for caps aggressively rather than skirt around at maximum firing range?

 

Are there any random bits of advice that isn't skirting around at maximum firing range until there are no more red dots in the vicinity?

 

Teach this rock, and this rock will remain a rock.

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Beta Tester
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Are there any random bits of advice that isn't skirting around at maximum firing range until there are no more red dots in the vicinity?

 

Not really.. because the hardest in Cruisers gameplay is to stay alive so the easiest way to do so is to firing at maximum range in the first half then go aggressively when you actually needed.

 

Other things is to use concealment as your advantage (since you go IJN CA anyways), You have to know when to engage and disengage before things get ugly drop Torpedoes, put out some few salvo, run away till you ship conceal again and repeat this seem to work fine in my Atago.

 

Anyways try not to take my comment too serious since i noob at Cruiser.

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If you want to go in and contest and what not, then you need a tank, get into a div with a BB or 2 who will assist you in pushing the cap. 

 

Cruisers can brawl with DDs, but not under focused fire from all directions.. especially BB shells.

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I'm sorry to say this, but that is the nature of cruisers. They are fragile. If you want to survive, you have to rely on some of those 'cowardly' tactics such as kiting, using concealment, hiding behind island, etc. I don't blame you for playing very agressively and I don't have the right to forbid you from doing it. But if you don't play a ship the way they should be played, then you have to accept the risk that comes with it.

 

Also, about contesting caps. If you're a cruiser, optimally you shouldn't try capping at the start of the game. You should stay just outside the cap, and support your DD who's trying to cap it. You should only cap by yourself in the mid-late game, or if you have a tank that pushes together with you. Of course, there are exceptions such as when there's no allied DD around, but generally you should leave the early-game capping to DDs.

 

So my advice is try to be patient and play conservatively for the first 5-10 minutes. Enemy team tends to be clustered in early game, so if you push too aggresively you will get focused and die quickly. After the 10 minute mark, usually the enemy should have weakened considerably and start to scatter. And that is when you should be agressive, charge at them and pick them off one by one. :playing:

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upgrade the rudder shift and you can do what ever you want. (in most of the cases) (actually, some) (well, not at all)

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Alpha Tester
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IJN tend to get Critical Rudder when kitting, I suggest bring the Rudder Durability Upgrade

 

for AP user, Most Cruiser have their most effective range around 5-12 km, exception of USN, which is 3-10 km

IJN have the best Shells arc, worst rate of fire, Mediocore AA, Exposed Citadel but good armor

USN have the best firepower, worst shell arc, Excellent AA, good armor, except Baltimore and new orleans

KM have the best AP penetration value, excellent AA too, meh armor

while Soviet....

idk, according to Eurobeat, they get all of them except they have very fragile Magazine

 

If you play IJN, your main target would be another cruiser, use your concealment to wait for the opportunity

when you see an enemy cruiser about to broadsiding, you can open fire,

if enemy ships starting to focus on you, go back  and cease fire, your concealment will help you get out

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IJN tend to get Critical Rudder when kitting, I suggest bring the Rudder Durability Upgrade

 

for AP user, Most Cruiser have their most effective range around 5-12 km, exception of USN, which is 3-10 km

IJN have the best Shells arc, worst rate of fire, Mediocore AA, Exposed Citadel but good armor

USN have the best firepower, worst shell arc, Excellent AA, good armor, except Baltimore and new orleans

KM have the best AP penetration value, excellent AA too, meh armor

while Soviet....

idk, according to Eurobeat, they get all of them except they have very fragile Magazine

 

If you play IJN, your main target would be another cruiser, use your concealment to wait for the opportunity

when you see an enemy cruiser about to broadsiding, you can open fire,

if enemy ships starting to focus on you, go back  and cease fire, your concealment will help you get out

 

so far i never got detonated in my russian cruiser. but the random citadel from time to time is really annoying.

also IMO the biggest weakness of russian cruiser is their low concealment and large turning radius.

 

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My German stone Friend. Try Budyonny! She is an awesome BB roaster in long range, whilst being a DD nightmare and Cruiser murderer in close range with her Awesome Soviet guns.

 

She's everything a cruiser needs~

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Moderator
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>Does that make me one of those rare cruiser caps that actually contest for caps aggressively rather than skirt around at maximum firing range?

 

There's a reason why such captains are rare, because the amount of skill needed to pull that off is incredibly high given how fragile cruisers are. If you haven't figured out cruisers yet, don't be aggressive.

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There's a reason why such captains are rare, because the amount of skill needed to pull that off is incredibly high given how fragile cruisers are. If you haven't figured out cruisers yet, don't be aggressive.

 

And incredibly high skill Cruisers players (i know) will not usually be that aggressive because is wasting HP and it will effect late game performance when Cruisers need to be aggressive...

 

 

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My German stone Friend. Try Budyonny! She is an awesome BB roaster in long range, whilst being a DD nightmare and Cruiser murderer in close range with her Awesome Soviet guns.

 

She's everything a cruiser needs~

 

1.2k battles in nothing but IJN ships- And I want to keep it that way.

 

The thought of adding another nation in my flawlessly Nipponese record makes me cringe.

 

No Gaijin.

 

>Does that make me one of those rare cruiser caps that actually contest for caps aggressively rather than skirt around at maximum firing range?

 

There's a reason why such captains are rare, because the amount of skill needed to pull that off is incredibly high given how fragile cruisers are. If you haven't figured out cruisers yet, don't be aggressive.

 

It'll be trial and error until I find something out or I find random bits of advice that lead me to an epiphany.

 

Kind of like how I couldn't shoot properly past 10k until I hit the 900 battle mark.

Or the number of times I attempted to outrun Kievs in my Hatsuharu, only to realize ramming is an excellent option without smoke or islands.

Or the number of times I attempt to ram a torpedo-armed cruiser, only to realize that I should have baited the torpedoes first.

Or the number of times I rammed my Minekaze onto a random T4-6 CV when my torpedoes missed, only to realize it only dealt 10k damage while giving the CV a free medal.

Or the number of times I forgot that my fighter planes have little ammunition left to intercept or brawl.

Or the number of times I realized that defensive AA is only ever useful if alone or when forming divisions with CVs.

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The problem with IJN cruisers, most of them are ill-suited for aggressive play. They have weak citadels, most of their guns are facing backwards, and they have torpedo but with bad firing arcs. Probably the only IJN cruisers that can brawl comfortably are the new hull Furutaka, Atago and Zao. The others... not so much.

 

If I were you, I'd just switch to USN cruisers, because they are much better at it. But to each their own, I guess...

 

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1. From analysis your Myoko stats:

Main battery Hit rate - 26.14%   (It's quite good, if you have that accuracy by shot at 10km+)

Torp Hit rate             - 4.09%     (Don't care about this stat, Torp can use to denied the area, it's up to player style)

Win rate                   - 52.05%  from 73 game (It's acceptable average. If you play from level 0 captain, it's already above average)

Stat from other web:

WTR                        - 971 average is 953    

Survive rate             - 32% average is 39%   (Maybe from playing too much aggressive)

Exp                          - 854 average 979        

K/D                          - 1.0 average 1.1          

Many stats at average.

 

2. The request tactic about [Contest for caps aggressively]

        It's hard to play cruiser aggressive at start of game, because You'll be go in half of enemy team BB range quite easily. the best way maybe try to find enemy movement and go to prepare to intercept CA/CL or DD at line 2. Myoko'll shine when fight against other CA/Cl and DD at 9-12km due to bullet travel time(from ark like others mention). and very bad when close up to <6km due to slow turret traverse, large citadel and only average armor.

 

3. From my experience can summary tactic as:

     - Game play: Play at line 2 (kite + far shot + island hide, which you don't like) or Go to island to prepare intercept unaware CA/CL and DD (you must completely stealth to make a great surprise)

     - Make often use of stealth: only open fire (form stealth) when you sure hit, if heavily damage or citadel enemy will goes to panic instantly,  and don't hesitate to stop fire for disengage when under enemy fire or situation goes wrong.

     - Maybe some of this captain skill can help you survive for aggressive play:

             1.) Situational awareness - it's good captain skill for IJN cruisers with low detect range, which make sure that you'll completely stealth from DD when perform stealth operation or disengagement. 

             2.) Last Stand - Myoko trend to super easily rudder broke when kite  (like other mention) and sometime engine knock from BB shot. My ARP myoko focus on 3 tier 2 skill EM, LS, and Fire Prevention (don't know why she super easy catch fire form DD).

 

Many thing other player already said. I'm just add up a little.

P.S. Sorry for my English skill.

 

Edited by TSilverwing

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-snip-

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

---

 

Everyone pitched in to give useful advice- Except that everything culminated under hanging back and using concealment.

 

Even dem unicums said so.

 

I'm in despair.

 

Looks like I'll have to turn into a chess player after all. *Groan*

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Does that make me one of those rare cruiser caps that actually contest for caps aggressively rather than skirt around at maximum firing range?

 

Are there any random bits of advice that isn't skirting around at maximum firing range until there are no more red dots in the vicinity?

 

Haha, I think the most important think as Cruiser were to "Chose your fight Carefully"

 

The reason that such captain is rare were when contesting cap early, the map were blank. most people already smart enough to wait before breaking coancealment. The chances such aggresive captain will found himself in dangerous position that will be hard to recover. with neither armor, high profile plus low agility it will be fatal. 

And since cruiser cant repair nor Smoke to escape such situation it punish mistakes very hard.

 

Cleaveland prob the class, most suited for brawling cruiser.

It got high HP pool, good armor, agility, High DPS with Good AP on close range, good torpedo Protection, excelent secondaries. 

IJN can do well in any range in my oppinion

Russian prob worst in term of Close fighting, with 0 torpedo protection, and gigantic turning radius.

While German were Slow, and awkward gun layout not suited for agresive play

 

IMO cruiser is easiest class to play but harderst to master. It also the class with most personality :3

Edited by humusz

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Super Tester
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I am probably not qualified to tell you what to do skillwise. But I have seen you play first hand. So here's my thoughts about some of your *mistakes* that I would not make.

 

1. Choosing the center cap, it is a no-no for anything not a destroyer, you wanna contest, run for the farthest cap from your spawn. (This way, you are aggressive, and it will also take you longer to get to your death). Btw, keep shooting if you find someone in range while you run to the cap when there is a closer target than you for the enemy, usually there are.

 

2. When you approach a cap, make sure there is no possibility to get shot from both sides. Myoko is unkillable as long as you see incoming shells. Taking a note who else might be shooting at you is hard near the caps when you are more focused with destroyers though. Islands can be very handy against flat arc opponents.

 

3. Focus the enemy everyone else behind you is shooting, ensure you eliminate threats asap. This breaks enemy will and they start to question their move and start turning tail. Another one of your mistake is you get obsessed by a target. You don't always have to get the kills to prove your worth. Stop focusing on enemies that are not eminent threats.

 

4. There are certain parts of the map where different types of ship wants to go first. Get to the side where other destroyers would love to go, since most likely, battleships of both teams will avoid that side. And no battleships wants to shoot at myoko if there is another closer (or russian) target. In most of the online games, people will ignore you if you don't poke them first. So poke the one you can handle. However, there is always a bigger fish.

 

5. Remember Atsf's furutaka video? well they work for Myoko too, pretend you are a fast battleship where you lost 60% of your HP even before start. Variation in speed is more helpful in dodging shells than turning away. Most BB will predict that and shoot a bit higher.

 

6. Finally, the definition of aggressive and being stupid is really close. (not saying you are stupid by any chance). So, you don't necessarily need to enter the Cap, skirt around it, and when its almost capped, get in for free XP :D. Enemy will be busy with your friendly destroyers. Don't torp in cap while there are friendly DDs.

 

7. Get real, you don't need sonar if you have good situational awareness, You know, there is an option in the map now that enables "last known position" might be helpful.

 

Do I follow these myself? Nope, I never play cruisers. I just watch from behind how quickly you die in one lol.

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Beta Tester
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Take a peek at my stats first.

 

I am slightly above average in anything except for 2 classes. Namely, battleships and cruisers.

 

I have Myoko set as my primary cruiser. I've almost exclusively used her for 3 days with no remarkable results.

I tend to pick hydro over AA, even when solo because I like to charge in rather than fire at maximum range like one of them.

I am fairly confident in my capability to shoot even DDs once they're spotted save for Kievs. Same goes for my torpedobeats (Hence no AA).

I tend to die after capping.

 

...

 

Does that make me one of those rare cruiser caps that actually contest for caps aggressively rather than skirt around at maximum firing range?

 

Are there any random bits of advice that isn't skirting around at maximum firing range until there are no more red dots in the vicinity?

 

Teach this rock, and this rock will remain a rock.

 

Aggressively contesting caps in a myoko is a no go. If you decide to dive into the DDs, you should also have a plan how to get out as fast as possible too as common sense dictates you'll have high chance of homing all corsairs to your arse.

For cruisers, just be opportunist. There is no real way to play a cruiser and that's what makes them very versatile. Don't play in a predetermined way, read the map and follow through.

For tier 7 cruisers, Myoko is the best defensively(fast rudder shift, best cruiser armor in tier and best hp). If you keep on dying from a Myoko, then you'll die faster from other tier 7 cruisers. I suggest you broaden your playstyle by playing other nation's cruisers and you'll be guaranteed to improve your games.

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as for me, cruiser is like a pocket battleship. but are more mobile and maneuverable yet also more fragile.  you need to angle your armor all the time or you will sink fast.
1. prioritize survivability over doing damage, cruiser can set fire on targets and you will rack up damage up to late game as long as you're still floats.
2. angle your armor most of the times, only open up when your guns are fully loaded, shoot then go back at angled again. (its more annoying in IJN because of their poor turret traverse than other nation)
3. use wasd. change your bearing and speed constantly to prevent enemies from landing easy shot on you.
4. prioritize soft ship over more armored one. your target priority is DD>CL>CA>BB prioritize their distance or their treat level to your ship or allies.
5. learn when is the right time to use ap. ap deal great amount of damage against broadsiding ship including battleship. yep they deal more damage than HE when BB are broadsiding. although i rarely use them when i'm on IJN CA, i mainly use it on RU and USN CA.

from what you said, you are an aggressive cruiser captain, all i can say is, leave the capping to DD (unless there are no one capping) but prioritize stealth and don't shoot your guns or pay attention to your surrounding if enemy is even paying attention to you at all then you can shoot your guns even capping (there are times where i manage to capture cap-points while shooting my guns but they are really rare ones so not really recommended) there are cruiser that can do it like atago because of their incredible stealth.
just support your dd at the back and don't enter the cap, as BB player also, i will prioritize bigger target in my range specially juicy cruiser over DD. so its not really recommended to enter cap, specially when BB are present in range.

-don't engage BB below 10km, too dangerous.
-pay attention to when the enemy will fire at you (specially battleship), slow down and lower your ship profile when you see their muzzle flash. (that's why i like acceleration module over ruddershift module).
- if you are receiving too many shot just stop shooting and let your ship vanish, re-position, then shoot again when its not HOT anymore. always prioritize survivability.

Edited by yansuki

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Mein gott.

 

Being a CA captain feels more mundane than BBs. Can't ever do anything alone.

 

B-But... Trusting pubs is... Difficult.

 

Hm... my experience with cruisers is actually quite different.

I like playing cruisers because I can do anything to a degree, even when alone.

 

It's the only class that can counter any other class comfortably, provided you don't get caught in a bad position.

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