Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
FenrirApalis

Suggestions for CV buffs

24 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Member
1,859 posts
5,797 battles

Maybe I am posting this in the wrong section, but oh well I will put it here anyways

 

so as many of you, if not all of you, have seen, you barely see aircraft carriers in World of Warships right now. Especially in high tiers, it's barely existent. Now the battleships and some cruisers (mostly USN BB) received AA buffs, it would be even harder for the CV players to find a reason to play. I used to play matches where I would be surprised to see no carriers on the team list and that was a time I'm that I will miss. Carriers are able to do so much for the team and turn the tide of the battle but they are just so rare now. I have a few ideas for consumables and other changes that can be incorporated into aircraft carriers and maybe some battleships, so here is my list:

1. Air radar consumable. We have all seen battles where the enemy CV or allied CV sneak their planes across along the border of the map and destroy the enemy CV before the game even reaches the 15 minute mark. Of course with the high tier CV's defensive AA consumable that problem has been reduced, but nobody's AA will ever be as effective as your squadron(s) of fighter planes. (unless it's a Des Moines or Hindernberg of course XD) so what does the air radar do? Pretty obvious. It spots all aircrafts that are in the air right now. Maybe the float planes should count too, maybe not. So that way the aircraft carrier would be able to dispatch their fighters to the correct sector of the map and using them to their maximum efficiency. This consumable will have 2 charges, +1 for superintendent or premium and +2 if SI and premium. Standard should have 300 seconds reload time and premium will have 240 seconds reload time. This will save the carrier players lots of time when deciding where their aircraft should go and giving them a better chance to influence the battle in their favour.

 

2. Defensive secondaries consumable. This is one that I think could be incorporated into battleships too, especially the later tiers. It would provide say a 15% boost to the rate of fire of secondaries and give them a 50% boost in accuracy. Make them last 45 seconds on Tier 7 BB, 50 for Tier 8, 55 for Tier 9 and 60 for Tier 10. The duration of the consumable is doubled on aircraft carriers as they have less secondaries and generally need the secondaries for a bit longer until the planes can get into the AO or an allied ship arrives. The reload time for the consumable will be the same as the defensive AA consumable on cruisers, amount of charges equal to the air radar consumable as listed above. 

 

3. Aircraft speed boost consumable. Pretty self explanatory, all your aircrafts get a speed boost just like how destroyers get speed boosts. Make it basically the same thing as the destroyer speed boost except on aircraft, maybe change the boost from 5% to 10% as 5% doesn't help as much as it should. It could be useful to try and get your bombers back while sending in your fighters to cover their retreat, or make your fighters fly like bats outta hell to try save an allied battleship from enemy aircraft (or in some cases, yourself) amount of charges and reload time should be equal to the destroyer speed boost.

 

Now, captain skill addition for CV!

Well this is an addition to the situational awareness skill which I think could help some CV players, especially if the Air Radar consumable gets incorporated into the game. And that is for individual squadrons to have a tiny 'detected' warning over them if they are spotted by enemies. Of course, just like ships, they gotta have different signs for different types of detection. A standard detected sign for being detected by ships and the radar/sonar detection sign for detected by air radar. Could help some CV players right?

 

let me know what you think of my ideas, if they could maybe inprove the current poor state that the CV's are in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,083 posts
5,169 battles

Maybe I am posting this in the wrong section, but oh well I will put it here anyways

 

so as many of you, if not all of you, have seen, you barely see aircraft carriers in World of Warships right now. Especially in high tiers, it's barely existent. Now the battleships and some cruisers (mostly USN BB) received AA buffs, it would be even harder for the CV players to find a reason to play. I used to play matches where I would be surprised to see no carriers on the team list and that was a time I'm that I will miss. Carriers are able to do so much for the team and turn the tide of the battle but they are just so rare now. I have a few ideas for consumables and other changes that can be incorporated into aircraft carriers and maybe some battleships, so here is my list:

1. Air radar consumable. We have all seen battles where the enemy CV or allied CV sneak their planes across along the border of the map and destroy the enemy CV before the game even reaches the 15 minute mark. Of course with the high tier CV's defensive AA consumable that problem has been reduced, but nobody's AA will ever be as effective as your squadron(s) of fighter planes. (unless it's a Des Moines or Hindernberg of course XD) so what does the air radar do? Pretty obvious. It spots all aircrafts that are in the air right now. Maybe the float planes should count too, maybe not. So that way the aircraft carrier would be able to dispatch their fighters to the correct sector of the map and using them to their maximum efficiency. This consumable will have 2 charges, +1 for superintendent or premium and +2 if SI and premium. Standard should have 300 seconds reload time and premium will have 240 seconds reload time. This will save the carrier players lots of time when deciding where their aircraft should go and giving them a better chance to influence the battle in their favour.

 

2. Defensive secondaries consumable. This is one that I think could be incorporated into battleships too, especially the later tiers. It would provide say a 15% boost to the rate of fire of secondaries and give them a 50% boost in accuracy. Make them last 45 seconds on Tier 7 BB, 50 for Tier 8, 55 for Tier 9 and 60 for Tier 10. The duration of the consumable is doubled on aircraft carriers as they have less secondaries and generally need the secondaries for a bit longer until the planes can get into the AO or an allied ship arrives. The reload time for the consumable will be the same as the defensive AA consumable on cruisers, amount of charges equal to the air radar consumable as listed above. 

 

3. Aircraft speed boost consumable. Pretty self explanatory, all your aircrafts get a speed boost just like how destroyers get speed boosts. Make it basically the same thing as the destroyer speed boost except on aircraft, maybe change the boost from 5% to 10% as 5% doesn't help as much as it should. It could be useful to try and get your bombers back while sending in your fighters to cover their retreat, or make your fighters fly like bats outta hell to try save an allied battleship from enemy aircraft (or in some cases, yourself) amount of charges and reload time should be equal to the destroyer speed boost.

 

Now, captain skill addition for CV!

Well this is an addition to the situational awareness skill which I think could help some CV players, especially if the Air Radar consumable gets incorporated into the game. And that is for individual squadrons to have a tiny 'detected' warning over them if they are spotted by enemies. Of course, just like ships, they gotta have different signs for different types of detection. A standard detected sign for being detected by ships and the radar/sonar detection sign for detected by air radar. Could help some CV players right?

 

let me know what you think of my ideas, if they could maybe inprove the current poor state that the CV's are in. 

 

1. tier VII and up already has AA defensive fire for that.

2. no, cv should have situation awareness. the first time flared up it means you are being spotted by a dd and you should ask for nearest ally cruiser for help and recall back our planes to search and destroy the enemy dd that is spotting you.

3. once again no, it will just make the cv snipping easier. planes already got 50% speed boost when their load are empty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
783 posts
4,808 battles

CV players have always been a minority. To be honest, I have no idea how to make CV gameplay more enticing for players in order for them to hop on to their high-tier CVs(seeing as mid-tiers still have a healthy CV population). But for all 3 of your suggestions, I don't think it would improve the situation. The first 2 is simply unneeded and can be replaced by simply a player's own awareness. If the consequences of not having that awareness is corrected by consumables, then it will just lessen the learning curve a CV player SHOULD experience in order to become a better player. It might attract more players, but it will be assured that player quality will worsen. The last one can be surmised to be simply a buff. Whether that is needed or not currently isn't for me to say especially with recent AA buffs.

 

Personally, I think most don't reach T9/T10 CVs as much due to how CV gameplay and UI actually is, and that T6/T8 CVs are virtual walls for CV players to advance. 

For T6, with current plane survivability numbers, it is at a spot where T6 planes cannot engage T7/T8 ships unlike how T5 planes can engage T6 ships. T5 CVs enjoy having MM on their side with the highest tier they can face being T6. T6 CVs and planes in general cannot survive/affect T6-T8 matches since every CL/CA will have Defensive Fire and the planes and reserves not being up to par. This being the first wall 'should' be able to teach CV drivers how to make better strike drops or at least pick good targets if they want to do a good job.

For T8, it becomes a challenge to drive to counter both T10 ships(good luck with that) or the high tier gameplay. CVs by nature are either OP or UP depending on how the enemy behaves, and with high tier meta being as it is right now, they are simply unable to do anything to other ships except DDs(much to their dismay). Add that most ships have formidable AA now and by extension, your counterpart CV has a way lower chance of being a newbie, it simply isn't gonna be your day. Unless the CV player polished up his skills in targeting DDs, success will only be found when the enemy makes a mistake of sailing alone, and even that isn't a guaranteed success.

 

All in all, I think the gameplay meta in high tiers is what is keeping CV players from actually driving their CVs at high tier. Not to mention all the T10 ships are formidable AA batteries with some being simply no-fly zones. There are other problems like the UI, or how AA mechanics work. One thing I can say for sure is that it isn't the repair cost as CVs rarely die compared to other classes anyway.

 

 

EDIT: To be a more constructive with my post:

I actually want to see the secondaries consumable on BBs. It'd make a good suggestion.

The captain skill for "plane situational awareness" is also viable. It helps when tracking other ships(especially DDs).

Edited by SZYZWY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,196 posts
2,883 battles

Air radar consumable? CV sniping can only perform by the best aircraft carrier captains. The only reason why CV gameplay is dead is because of idiotic CV captains whining about how they parked in one spot and get CV sniped. 
North Carolina, Iowa, and Montana do not need any more AA buffs or they will turn into this

Amagi, Izumo, and YAMATO don't have to also do better than the US BB at AA or this game is gonna be IJN biased

Planes consumable ? Nope
Midway fighters are gonna be zipping around the map chewing down any poor enemy planes.
It will also make 3/1/2 loadout for Hiryu even more overpowered which is not what we want.

I respect and appreciate your effort in making suggestions for high tier or senior CV play as I call it
You only received your first CV (Langley) and I would recommend you to play around with the line and try to have a deep understanding of issues with CV gameplay.
 

I believe that War Gaming should do the following things to make CV gameplay fun again

1. Remove Defensive fire from all Aircraft Carrier or redesign the class as a whole. CV sniping is a normal part of the game. Just like Yamato reversing out of battle and sniping at the same time
2. Make the CV learning curve even harder. The art of CV plays revolves around tactical decision, careful movement of planes, supporting friendly ships, prioritizing enemy targets.etc. CV learning curve should be very hard but also very rewarding.

3. Listen to veteran CV player's opinion like Deicide. Experienced CV players in the past gave tons and tons and tons of suggestion to War Gaming so they can fix CV plays. However, many suggestions were ignored by War Gaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,124 posts

ha ha ha buff CV? please no!

 

I've been bullying a lot by CV player, especially in my kagero.

they spot me with their plane, keep following me and turn me into snack for their CA

 

I never play CV, so I can't say I understand their feeling.

but

I DO understand those being target by them T_T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,040 posts
1,326 battles

The problem with CV in this game is their massive Alpha damage, which gave them continuous nerfs due to countless whine thread.

I heard somewhere that WG planes to make CV a support class, something similar is happening to SPG in WoT too. I suppose it might be fire/flooding damage or sort of, maybe reduced bomb/torp dmg but with less time between strikes?

 

Who knows, we'll see. I'm actually in favor of CV being a support/scout class rather than damage dealer. They'll still be annoying, especially to DD, but that's due to the nature of this game's spotting system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
753 posts
8,965 battles

Suggestions for CV buffs

Don't play them unless you actually know what you are doing, 90% don't and are only after personal glory rather than supporting the team then cry for help when in trouble.

Well guess what? No more support from me as a 10% chance of getting a CV player that's worth the effort is not worth mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
1,634 posts
4,639 battles

With the buffs to AA, the focus for CV players has simply shifted to those ships that do not have AA - destroyers. Destroying the destroyers on the enemy team gives your team a massive advantage.

 

Do I like that CV play has become quite gamey? Nope. Is this the best we can do with the frankly simplistic CV mechanic? Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
331 posts
17,063 battles

Yes CVs are much rarer than they used to be but there are a few reasons for that I wont go into.

 

1 isn't appropriate. The time period the radars were limited in what they could do. while there were air detection radars and even airborne radars they were really just prototypes and had very limited range for the airborne ones.

 

2. you want to make BB AA stronger its already ridiculously overpowered now. All T8 BBs  can be made virtually immune to T8 CV planes and this has been the case since 5.4  and you want to strengthen it? this will only make lower Tier BBs immune to everything and make the camping at high tier worse as more people get fed up of being unable to do anything. The Amgagi C hull can already shoot down a shokaku plane on average every 5-7 second if  a squadron is within 3.1 km. this is before AFT, BFT,  manual designation the modules that boost AA.  This Idea tilts it so far in favour of the BBs that it wont be worth playing CV anymore and make them 4th rate vessels and just  xp pinatas to everyone else.  Not that it isn't already the case now.

 

3. I dont see a reason why this would be useful

 

Doesn't situational awareness already cover that and already your planes are already getting shot down nearly as soon as they are spotted. at high tier.

 

 

That video illustrates nicely why as a CV you're going to be useless in at least 2/3 battles you're in as you wont be top tier. CVs are the only type I know that become useless when they are out tiered by even 1.

 

The way things are with CV they are a support class already above T5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
1,056 posts
8,980 battles

CVs in SEA server are still common. Its not as bad as EU and NA (where people are complaining of CV queue times). You will run into CV battles often here.

 

That said, I just got my Taiho very recently, and even with the 222 loadout (not enough XP yet to unlock 232 and upgraded DBs) she is very good.

 

T9 and T10 CVs have that attack aircraft HP upgrade that costs 3 million but is very important; your bombers are MUCH more survivable now. The AA changes mainly affect T6-T8 CVs IMO since their bombers get powercreeped by AA.

 

Now, on to your suggestions:

 

1. Air radar is simply not needed. Frankly, if you ever needed to use this, you are not aware enough. CV players need situational awareness (not the skill) anyways.

 

2. Nope. no DD getting a close to a CV does not deserve a reward. Always have the initiative to watch out for DDs before its too late.

 

3. Sounds like an "I win" button to me. No need for such consumables.

 

However, one thing that I would like is an expanded upgrade/captain skill choice. Some of the choices are simply too obvious and we have very standard (and attractive!) builds. For example, adding a divebomber skill for 2 points (reload time, fire chance, etc) would certainly be a better choice for USN, or an upgrade to reduce takeoff/landing times (more attractive to IJN where reload times are far less).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,043 posts
4,300 battles

Bad suggestions, better remove the nerfs and changes they did to destroy them in the last patches. SImply put CV has become crappy and stupid. WG failed to find a solution to protect the noob CV players from being sniped, noob players who don't know how to evade torps and stick with the team and NA's "CV agreement" problem, so they just scratch their buttocks then their head, then sighed and gave AA consumable and gave a middle finger their problem once and for all.  Long-lived problems in CV gameplay still remained unsolved and thus the result is the pile of crap we call CV.

 

So suggestions like this are utterly futile and waste of your imaginative effort and time.

Edited by Deicide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
20 posts
8,564 battles

1. cv have no awareness

2. cv have no awareness

3. cv have no skills to control their planes precisely

 

captain skills: Try to play a T9/T10 cv without any captain skills(or only situational awareness if you want) and watch your win rate, completely explain how important those skills are, esp. T5 can swing a game.

 

I don't see WG is working on captain skills since it is completely balanced on wrecking some players without that much commander points so they will work(FARM->another problem exist now in low-mid tier) on it if they want to play

 

Skill differential of cv isn't something that important now, mostly on MM + team movement.

 

As i have said months before, if WG want to make cv ONLY appears on team battle, the changes are fine and meaningful.

 

The only thing i want to buff is the aa parts are easier to get damaged by dd/ca's HEs if they didn't get upgraded(in 0.5.7)

 

TL;DR: Learn cv, we want cv be in balanced state doesn't mean we need joke buff nor joke nerf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
1,634 posts
4,639 battles

You make the best you can with what you have. Right now, go for destroyers first, if you can find them. Especially those Soviet destroyers.

 

Try not to touch cruisers and battleships until when they are damaged (i.e. had modules knocked out).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BRU]
Member
309 posts
11,163 battles

In higher tiers, I changed my CV playstyle into a kill DD first before anything. Avoid cruisers especially the OP Des Moines due to her 90 AA stat. You can still hit battleships but it's a 50/50 probablity. Just keep playing CV and you will be ready anytime in higher CV tier battles. I already have my Lexington and my recently researched Taiho(didn't buy it due to no port slot and focus on my BB grind to Yamato) so I feel you that CV needs buffs but as for the current patch, it's still okay to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
604 posts
6,756 battles

I don't think that CV's are unbalanced in terms of power when looked at overall, but I think that there are serious issues within CV gameplay that need to be addressed.  I also don't think there are too few people playing CV's right now, except for the high tiers - WG has stated in the past that the mix of ships in a battle should be on average 10% CV's, 25% BB's, 40% CA/CL's, 25% DD's.  The problems as I see it are as follows;

 

 - The gameplay is bland, this discourages people from continually playing CV's - it's a lot more fun and dynamic to play the other ship types.

 - CV's are far too powerful and far too weak depending on the situation.

 - Also US vs IJN CV balance - it's way off atm, but this is just a balancing measure, where the other issues are core gameplay.

 

So to resolve this I think they need to change the way CV's are played to make it less a constant top down click fest, and introduce something that is a little similar to the skills involved in the rest of the game. How they do that is up to them, I have a few ideas, but I'm sure others can come up with better. The point is that the gameplay needs to be shaken up a bit to make it more satisfying.

 

So to resolve the bland gameplay, I would suggest getting rid of the manual targeting, and make it so you can switch to a manual targeting attack that actually pops you into a view where you are flying with your squadron - probably a third person view of the lead aircraft like WoWP or possibly even a cockpit view.  This gives you the equivalent increase in accuracy (or maybe even more accurate) of the current manual target and perhaps makes your planes a little harder to shoot down.  You could fly the torp attack or dive bomb attack yourself which would be great fun and break up the top down click fest.  This would need to be a system that is difficult to do well, but rewards a skillful player.  The benefits are that you could land more accurate shots with less chance of your planes being shot down, the negatives are that you can't control your other squadrons during the attack (which might last 15-20 secs or so) so you can't do multiple manual attacks at the same time.  A good player though could click an auto attack with one or two squadrons and then fly a manual attack while this is happening.

 

Perhaps you could even get rid of strafe mode and have a dogfight mode of some description for your fighters.  That may be impossible to implement though.

 

The point is to make CV's a little less clicky and change up the skills required to play them well - and of course simply make them more fun!

Edited by Moggytwo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
604 posts
6,756 battles

This is a blatant necro to point out my post above this one from June 12, 2016. 

You're welcome WG, and I'd just like to offer my services as a game design analyst, for only a modest stipend.  :Smile-_tongue:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
305 posts
4,060 battles

1.Do you know that aircraft can detect enemies without radar?

2.Can't be incorporated

3.Aircraft are already faster than any ships in the game and yet you still whining about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LNA]
Member
1,657 posts
10,412 battles
39 minutes ago, mr_glitchy_R said:

1.Do you know that aircraft can detect enemies without radar?

2.Can't be incorporated

3.Aircraft are already faster than any ships in the game and yet you still whining about it.

Wait this a necroed thread, read the warning will ya :cap_fainting:.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
30 posts
1,079 battles

It is hard to do CV rework

wargaming wants a certain amount of game balance(without skill)

CV win BB 

CA win DD 

CV,DD win BB

BB win CA

CA win CV(AA defense)

CV win DD

DD win CV(AA defense)

 

This is what i think......

 

 

 

IN the real world it is (during WW2)

CV win BB win CA win CL win DD

not always but in most battles

in this case they must limit the CVs strength and include sth called concealment

in real worlds DDs get spotted at 6km (not in the game)

well of course --- smoke changes that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
7,522 posts
7,978 battles

WG is trying to reduce cv effectiveness and influence in battle while still keeping the gameplay interesting. Most CV players won't like it, cause they enjoy the skill gap more than anyone else.

The other 3 classes cannot be at different places at the same time, I think devs want to streamline CVs in the process too.

Saw flambass' coverage of the video released by WG, kinda agree with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LNA]
Member
1,657 posts
10,412 battles
7 hours ago, icy_phoenix said:

WG is trying to reduce cv effectiveness and influence in battle while still keeping the gameplay interesting. Most CV players won't like it, cause they enjoy the skill gap more than anyone else.

The other 3 classes cannot be at different places at the same time, I think devs want to streamline CVs in the process too.

Saw flambass' coverage of the video released by WG, kinda agree with him.

I dont think i have any problem with it and infact i think thats pretty cool in itself. It goes from a RTS to an action game which is pretty much inline with the other class.

Anyway , the hardest part will be getting used to A COMPLETELY NEW GAME. And that isnt easy , especially to vets in CV.

What i worry the most is still AA interaction with planes , and will that scale with tiers. AA in high tier right now is ridiculous in many cases , and you dont have any option other than wait and see approach. What i really want is mechanic so that both CV and ship can actively trade via manual input , such as manual AA directing and manual AA dodging with steering so that no one ship can shut down another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,332 posts
8,817 battles

Personally I don't like the look of this CV rework at all. I have so many issues with it I don't even know where to start.

The only good thing is it solves the spotting problem and the alpha damage strikes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×