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SZYZWY

Premium IJN CV (Tier 8) (Name Undecided, tentatively Zuikaku)

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With the success of Saipan as a premium USN CV (at least in terms of gameplay), I'd like to present a suggestion for the IJN CV line and would show a contrast on what qualities the Saipan took.

At Tier 8, contemporaries of this CV will be the Shokaku and the Lexington. Both are subjected to Tier X matchups as well as Tier VI.
My personal vision for the Tier 8 IJN CV is to be a witherer. With a lot of planes in the air to sustain DoT damage but unable to burst with large alpha damage in order to make her unique albeit a little. The planes will be squishy enough, that the usual T6 or T7 ship will have ample AA defenses to mount against it.

Name:
As much as I would like to use the ships Akagi or Kaga as the Tier 8 Premium IJN CV, the qualities I'm about to suggest are more in line with Zuikaku and the event of the Marianas Turkey Shoot. While the Saipan sports the least planes in the air at her tier, the premium IJN CV will be sporting the most planes in the air at her tier. With the Saipan's focus on plane quality, as observed by the T9 planes, the premium IJN CV will then focus on plane quantity, and will have planes that are either of the same tier, or a tier lower.

For ease, I'll tentatively name the suggested premium IJN CV as Zuikaku.

The Ship:
Zuikaku, being the sister ship of Shokaku, will have similar hull values. Most of the differences will come from the planes. As of note, both Shokaku and Lexington are able to field more than 72 planes historically(AFAIK) and the number of planes total can be used as a balancing factor. The same goes for Zuikaku.

Loadout:
The Zuikaku will be the CV that will have a 3/3/3 loadout. Now, before you all gang up on me and say OP, I would like to give the explanation on the planes shortly, and this loadout will be in no way OP, unless the captain itself is OP. :hmm:

Squadron Size:
The Saipan demonstrated that the 3-plane squadron is viable for a lot of things. The Zuikaku will have a 3-plane squadron on all planes. Fighters, Torpedo Bombers, and Dive Bombers will have 3-planes default, only affected by the Air Supremacy skill as a T5 captain perk. She will in total have 27 planes up in the air at a time compared to Shokaku/Lexington's 24. She will also use all the number keys from 2 to 0.

Planes
Fighters:
She will sport the Mitsubishi A6M5c Fighters that is stock from Shokaku or upgraded from Hiryu. Even with 3 squadrons which will normally result with 9 FT planes in the air, she will be outclassed by fellow T8 CVs in plane strength and squadron size. So expecting to win in a dogfight with these is a little foolish. The T5 captain perk balances this somewhat but will still be subject to a beating since the Mitsubishi A6M5c are still T7 fighters that is weaker than what Shokaku and Lexington can deliver.
Further Balancing can revolve to using Mitsubishi A6M2 which is the Ryujo's upgraded Fighters.

Torpedo Bombers:
For Torpedo Bombers, she will use the Nakajima B6N which is upgraded TB squadron from Shokaku. If Zuikaku will use the Nakajima B5N2 present from Hiryu, it is the same TB used by Zuiho and will make her grossly underpowered against AA. Therefore, the weakness of the Zuikaku TB squadrons is that they are only 3 in a squadron, and their torpedo damage will be tweaked to reduce alpha. The Torps will still have 35knots but will have only  5k-6k maximum damage. On average in a T8 BB, that will translate to only 8-9k damage if all the torps hit. The Torps, as a balancing factor will have a slight increase in incapacitations and flooding.
Further Balancing can be adjusting the torp spread(USN torp spread anyone?). :playing:

Dive Bombers:
The Dive bombers will be the Aichi D3A2 which only go around 139 knots compared to it's T8 counterpart which goes 161 knots. It is the T7 DB plane found on Hiryu(upgraded) and is on stock Shokaku. No other changes to values other than having 3 per squadron normally.

 

The Strike power isn't OP, in fact, it's lower:
For comparison, I will use the Shokaku's 2/2/2 loadout against the Zuikaku's 3/3/3 loadout
Torpedoes
8 Torps total for the 2/2/2 loadout and 9 Torps total for the 3/3/3 loadout
Alpha potential: 8x8567 vs 9x6000(optimistic) = 68536 vs 54000

Against a single target, stacking a flood is doable with the Shokaku anyway. The extra TB squadron on Zuikaku will just provide extra leeway if RNG tries to screw it up. 3-plane squadrons will also lose a plane more often than the 4-plane squadron.

Bombs
8(10) Bombs total vs 9(12) Bombs total. (Air Supremacy Numbers)
Well, there's not much of a need to actualize the alpha damage since IJN bombs are only there to cause fires.
Again, Having 3 squadrons of 3 dive bombers versus having 2 of them with 4 dive bombers each isn't a difference maker. Much more against a single target.

This Suggestion is up for discussion anyway so I'd appreciate some inputs. :coin:

Personal Comments:
I myself think it'd be a good suggestion partly because of Saipan's success from a gameplay perspective. The Zuikaku will then be a CV with the squishiest planes with low attack power but can sustain a whole lot of DoT and incapacitations. Personally, a total of 81 units of planes would be good, in order for each of the 9 squadrons to have 2 more squadron sizes in reserve. Having 9 squadrons to control is no easy feat as well so grouping them is to be expected and singling out targets will be it's main job.
A ship for farming Witherer-Arsonist-Liquidator Flags
I would have loved to use Akagi or Kaga as the base CV for these planes, but the Zuikaku model is present in-game for the ease of the devs and other than the torp values, all the other parts of the suggestion are also present in-game. Other than that, the concept of squishy planes reminds me of the turkey shoot. :hiding:
 

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Super Tester
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I don't know if plane DPS/HP is linearly or exponentially decreased when losing planes but by looking at Saipan, it really is a bad CV. 3 plane squad sizes are extremely weak especially since planes getting destroyed revolves around rolling a dice (RNG). Not only this but from looking at Hak's loadout, you would either run 4/2/2 or 2/3/2 so you have more fighters and TBs.

 

Also, since they are constantly increasing AA and decreasing plane HP, the amount of CV players have decreased dramatically and a T8 BB/CA/DD would sell a lot more than a CV from a business perspective so I would not bring any hope unfortunately.

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Wg has Akagi model ready so bring in the senpai as oppose to saipan

Neither of the two saipan mod can start dots reliably. You get one attack in as and two low chance in strike

This zuizui can tie up three fts ,strafe own planes and has six groups of strike to evade enemy ft. One group hang back, send 5 in lol dot. We wont know until we see her but i think she will be op

Which is fine by me, ijn did won the war after all:trollface:

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Technically speaking...

The Shokaku in game is actually Zuikaku.

Just like Atago in game is actually Takao...

 

Didn't know that the Shokaku we have is the Zuikaku, Thanks.

I don't know if plane DPS/HP is linearly or exponentially decreased when losing planes but by looking at Saipan, it really is a bad CV. 3 plane squad sizes are extremely weak especially since planes getting destroyed revolves around rolling a dice (RNG). Not only this but from looking at Hak's loadout, you would either run 4/2/2 or 2/3/2 so you have more fighters and TBs.

 

Also, since they are constantly increasing AA and decreasing plane HP, the amount of CV players have decreased dramatically and a T8 BB/CA/DD would sell a lot more than a CV from a business perspective so I would not bring any hope unfortunately.

 

It was one balancing factor I could think of when it comes to the planes. And I wanted it to be in contrast with what we have with Saipan. To be fair, more squadrons mean that each AA aura only has one to deal with at a time. Its HP sucks when the squadrons act independently but the "durability" is there in groups.

 

From a business perspective, I seriously have no idea. The Saipan as an example is a CV release even with low amount of players. Dunno if WG actually profited substantially from that but it was made.

 

I hope it is limited to seasonal CV player

tier 8 is a tier where we can meet Tier 10 Ship

 

Please, let it not be a high tier CV, you know what Tirpitz players are like.

 

I also hope that it is a limited offer to those who actually play a substantial amount of CV games. It's what I advocated during the Saipan sale that didn't come true. To be fair, I'd also like other prems to actually have a limit of something like: "You must have reached tier 6 BB in order to purchase Tirpitz" but then it'd block a lot of potential profits so I don't see limited offers on premium ships becoming a reality anytime soon.

I'd also like to point out the prems are either credit makers and captain trainers anyway and anyone who wants to buy a premium CV without CV experience is... meh...

 

Wg has Akagi model ready so bring in the senpai as oppose to saipan

Neither of the two saipan mod can start dots reliably. You get one attack in as and two low chance in strike

This zuizui can tie up three fts ,strafe own planes and has six groups of strike to evade enemy ft. One group hang back, send 5 in lol dot. We wont know until we see her but i think she will be op

Which is fine by me, ijn did won the war after all:trollface:

 

I implemented the low(er) tier planes for FT and DB and the low alpha on the torps so it won't "feel" OP.

I feel it is balanced since the Zuikaku 'will' have a great power spike during early game, but will inevitably lose a lot more planes for every strike/dogfight compared to the other CVs while relying on a DoT to produce damage numbers.

Strafing will be an issue too due to 3-plane squadrons having lower ammo and lesser strafe power. Even with the 3/3/3 loadout, I personally feel it to be more of a jack of all trade kind since it will usually not top a strike CV in damage and will not clear the sky like an AS CV would.

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Even though I not play CV what I can see is that:-

 

What you suggesting is a T8 ship with T11 difficulty. Micromanaging will be a hell except for seasoned captain. Well, T8+ is for veteran anyways, so everyone will be on expert mode.

 

I wish T8 IJN CV will be a 2/2/2 but with less-one-plane-than-american-squadron-style, because Indianapolis got similar shell to Myoko. So why not change things around for that. Anyone? No? Oh well.

 

But it will be (probably) grossly OP when you got T5 AS skill perk. Since you will have default FT(2x5)+T(2x5)+DB(2x5) total 30 planes in the air, added the T5 AS skill, the total planes in the air will be 34 planes. (Now thats OP) Maybe WG can use different squadron like FT(2x3)+TB(2x5)+DB(2x3) total 22 planes, add the T5 skill it will be 26 total planes in the air or some other squadron layout.

 

Loadout

Lady Lex

Default: 3x6 = 18 planes

 

+T5 skill: Mk. 8 Mod. 1: (1x7)+(1x6)+(1x7)= 20

+T5 skill: Mk. 8 Mod. 3: (2x7)+(2x7)=28

+T5 skill: Mk. 8 Mod. 2: (1x6)+(3x7)=27

 

Shokaku-nee

Default: 5x4 = 20 planes

 

+T5 skill: Type 8 Mod. 1: (1x5)+(2x4)+(2x5) = 23

+T5 skill: Type 8 Mod. 3: (3x5)+(1x4)+(2x5) = 29

+T5 skill: Type 8 Mod. 2: (2x5)+(2x4)+(2x5) = 28

 

[unnamed CV]

Default: (2x3)+(2x5)+(2x3) = 22 / (2x3)+(2x5)+(2x4) = 24

 

+T5 skill: ??? Mod. 1: (2x4)+(2+5)+(2x4) = 26 / (2x4)+(2x5)+(2x5) = 28

 

As for stock vs stock [unnamed CV] will be stronger but after some mods and skills it will be a bit more leveled? Its a prem ship anyway.

 

Torpedoes and Bombs

TB

Using SZYZWY torps, 10x6000 = 60000 vs 68536 (Shokaku) its 12% weaker. Plus the added TB planes will make the arming a bit longer.

DB

Pray to RNGesus for the bombs to hit.

 

Survivality 

???

Edit: Maybe take Taiho FT but have 1 less plane, Hiryu TB but have 1 more plane, Shokaku DB no change.

 

PS: Sorry got carried away. o(-(

Edited by RisaFujiyama

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What you suggesting is a T8 ship with T11 difficulty. Micromanaging will be a hell except for seasoned captain. Well, T8+ is for veteran anyways, so everyone will be on expert mode.

To be honest, yeah. I'd go for a rather different setup. 9 squadrons is micromanaging hell. It's something that can be left for balance tweaking.

 

Maybe WG can use different squadron like FT(2x3)+TB(2x5)+DB(2x3) total 22 planes, add the T5 skill it will be 26 total planes in the air or some other squadron layout.

Unless the TB squadron has a USN style spread, it still isn't modeled in-game of a 5-plane squadron having the IJN spread AFAIK.

 

Edit: Maybe take Taiho FT but have 1 less plane, Hiryu TB but have 1 more plane, Shokaku DB no change.

For a 3-plane FT squadron, then a Taiho FT will still be at a disadvantage against T8 counterparts without T5 AS skill.

The Hiryu TB is the TB used on Zuiho. It's the squishiest plane around T7 CVs and will probably not last when encountering T9/T10 ships.

 

 

All in all, a lot of good ideas that can be implemented. 5-plane squadrons are also a good thing to consider for loadout flexibility(if 3/3/3 ain't good).

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Well WG will have a bit of homework to do then.

 

As for FT, I have no idea to balance it. So yeah...more homework for WG.

Its no good? But to be fair T9/10 AA will chew the planes up tho, well time to bring a fictional version planes. Or just bring the same planes as Shokaku but weaker torpedoes.

 

Well its up to the WG. But still, I seriously pumped for this (if WG would make this) IJN [unnamed CV].

Edited by RisaFujiyama

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