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Kleiss

Radar

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It hurts my eyes every time someone make a very long paragraph of a boring topic, more than once


 

 

​I just scroll down to minimize the hurt

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 a whole bunch of speculative nonsense

 

keep your tinfoil hat on, bro, u don't even play ijn dds(21 battles in fubuki? lolno), which invalidates your entire point.
Edited by Kleiss

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Lol at the dd scrubs.

 

Radar is fine. It's not a guaranteed kill. Plus it's reload is 4 - 5 minutes.

 

You gota weigh up your risks vs rewards in a dd now. There is no easy mode any more.

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To an extent you've made one of the points I was trying to make (albeit I probably did it badly). yes there has been a sudden drop in their rankings, because the playstyle has changed from the super easy mode it was, and people are still trying to play it like it was before and failing hard, or else are still working out what the new one should be (in my opinion a more aggressive torpedo boat that can still stealth launch but has to get in closer to do it and plan ahead accordingly like on the lower/mid tiers, which actually suits my playstyle to tell the truth as I'm a very aggressive player). Will it remain where it is now in the rankings, I doubt it (at least on most servers), but only time will tell (give it another few months to even out).

 

 

Also, I feel that the statement of her target being "BB with a lot of HP" is part of the problem as it's the mindset that everyone get's indoctrinated into when they start out (this rock-paper-scissors ranking that isn't as hard a rule as people try to make out) and it then influences how they play, making the recent changes have more impact than they should have. ANY enemy ship is her target, you just have to use different tactics for each and think things through more in advance depending on the target. Will it always work, no, but then it shouldn't be 100% success anyway (which it should be on a hard rock-paper-scissors setup).

 

 

Keep in mind this is from a very aggressive player, which is NOT what is the norm for this server, and that also I feel is part of the problem. Because of the very passive mentality on the server, when particular ships suddenly change from being tailor made for that playstyle (Shima was the poster child for it for example, sit way back with no chance of being spotted and lob torps into an area half the map away with a  good chance of multiple hits, so no need to move up) to requiring being played in a more aggressive fashion, it'll cause a lot of disquiet and a LONG adjustment period. Most of the radar complaints only started after these torp changes were made, so there definitely seems to be a correlation between the changes and adapting to a new playstyle rather than issues with radar itself being OP (if anything I'd like it to get a little shorter cooldown, maybe 75% or so of what it is now, and that's from someone who plays dd's as well as cruisers and BB's).

 

1. Are you sure about that? Do you even know what's the primary objective of being a DD?

 

2. Very aggro player, but using the wrong DD class, i suggest you move to other nations like USN and RU to fit your playstyle, IJN is not the line for you.

 

3. What do you expect it to do? gunfight against other nation DD that has superior gun performance?

 

A DD's objective is to cap, spot and hunt DD. If he fails any of these duties, he is a failed DD player regardless of how much experience he has, because he did not contribute in aiding victory for the team but instead going after unnecessary torpedo hits cause more damage= more credits= i'm a pro, but cost the team a victory due to his greediness. This is why the other DD nations perform well in all 3 aspects since they can outperform other DDs of the same/different nation. I suggest you get a shimakaze with 8km torps + torpedo acceleration if you want the 'aggro' style of DD, cause that will definitely suit your playstyle, but if you fail to cap/contest/spot, then you are nothing but a let-down to the team.

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Lel

Sarcasm mode ON

A DD's objective is to cap, spot and hunt DD. If he fails any of these duties, he is a failed DD player regardless of how much experience he has, because he did not contribute in aiding victory for the team but instead going after unnecessary torpedo hits cause more damage= more credits= i'm a pro, but cost the team a victory due to his greediness. This is why the other DD nations perform well in all 3 aspects since they can outperform other DDs of the same/different nation. I suggest you get a shimakaze with 8km torps + torpedo acceleration if you want the 'aggro' style of DD, cause that will definitely suit your playstyle, but if you fail to cap/contest/spot, then you are nothing but a let-down to the team.

 

Sarcasm mode OFF

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since on 1 occasion on mahan, I only get like 20k damage result but kill (mostly soloed) 2 fairly healthy destroyer , but still got placed among the top in team and got fairly high EXP and credits.

 

I dont think It doesnt realy have much difrence in that term, Ripped of 60k HP from battleship or just 10k HP from other destroyer mosty yield same reward

 

The prob or IJN DD were now they have hard time contesting cap, since they outgunned by other DD they become to scared to do something usefull 

rarely IJN DD captain were willing to fight back when being spoted.

Hi tier IJN DD actualy have decent GUN andcan actualy makes USN DD have hard times, and most of IJN DD Capatin dont even use it

thats why imo IJN DD are mostly in botom of the barrel, because they dont took risk - so they become less usefull

Edited by humusz

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since on 1 occasion on mahan, I only get like 20k damage result but kill (mostly soloed) 2 fairly healthy destroyer , but still got placed among the top in team and got fairly high EXP and credits.

 

I dont think It doesnt realy have much difrence in that term, Ripped of 60k HP from battleship or just 10k HP from other destroyer mosty yield same reward

 

The prob or IJN DD were now they have hard time contesting cap, since they outgunned by other DD they become to scared to do something usefull 

rarely IJN DD captain were willing to fight back when being spoted.

Hi tier IJN DD actualy have decent GUN andcan actualy makes USN DD have hard times, and most of IJN DD Capatin dont even use it

thats why imo IJN DD are mostly in botom of the barrel, because they dont took risk - so they become less usefull

 

To be fair, until you reach tier 7+, the guns aren't really reliable to actually try to have a duel with RU/USN DDs. Cruiser support is your best bet to actually contest the cap as an IJN DD captain and that isn't always there. Not using the guns at all is a different story altogether though.

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Lol at the dd scrubs.

 

Radar is fine. It's not a guaranteed kill. Plus it's reload is 4 - 5 minutes.

 

You gota weigh up your risks vs rewards in a dd now. There is no easy mode any more.

 

It isn't fine.  It's there to fix a problem that didn't exist.  Cruisers may not have been able to spot a DD that didn't want to be spotted, but the DD has to fall back if a cruiser advances, and if they do expose themselves, they are massively outgunned.  If radar is necessary, then the cruiser vs destroyer balance in the mid tiers where radar doesn't exist should be terrible - it isn't, it is in fact perfectly fine.

 

Radar is a hard counter that is equally effective regardless of skill level - this is always a good sign that something is a badly designed ability.

 

The only DD's that were easy mode were long range torp spammers.  This problem is basically solved now, and it was due to the effective removal of long range torps, and had nothing to do with radar.

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It isn't fine.  It's there to fix a problem that didn't exist.  Cruisers may not have been able to spot a DD that didn't want to be spotted, but the DD has to fall back if a cruiser advances, and if they do expose themselves, they are massively outgunned.  If radar is necessary, then the cruiser vs destroyer balance in the mid tiers where radar doesn't exist should be terrible - it isn't, it is in fact perfectly fine.

 

Radar is a hard counter that is equally effective regardless of skill level - this is always a good sign that something is a badly designed ability.

 

The only DD's that were easy mode were long range torp spammers.  This problem is basically solved now, and it was due to the effective removal of long range torps, and had nothing to do with radar.

 

You think it's risk free moving that close up with the cruiser? The best radar is 12km and lasts 30seconds. The Moskva can get off 3 salvos. Mostly 2. The DM has 10km radar at 40secs. The DM can fire 6 salvos.  Then the wait begins 4-5mins. Even with consumables. 

 

Any bb shell from a nagato upwards can tear you a hole. 

 

It's a risk reward play. If your in radar range of a dd your in 15-20km range of a bb most of the time. 

 

Sorry but as a dd player you need to be situation aware just like a CA player being situation aware or BBs.   

Edited by SlamUez

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It isn't fine.  It's there to fix a problem that didn't exist.  Cruisers may not have been able to spot a DD that didn't want to be spotted, but the DD has to fall back if a cruiser advances, and if they do expose themselves, they are massively outgunned.  If radar is necessary, then the cruiser vs destroyer balance in the mid tiers where radar doesn't exist should be terrible - it isn't, it is in fact perfectly fine.

 

Radar is a hard counter that is equally effective regardless of skill level - this is always a good sign that something is a badly designed ability.

 

The only DD's that were easy mode were long range torp spammers.  This problem is basically solved now, and it was due to the effective removal of long range torps, and had nothing to do with radar.

 

I think he's referring to the Chapayev with CE build, which i agree. Because i own 1 and with CE, your concealment goes down to 10.2km. That is a wide gap in-between of your radar range (11.7km), which you can surprise any DD's with ease. However, the USN line is not a cake walk in terms of radar usage, they have to go within 8.7km-9.8km (depending on the tier 8-10) just to spot DD, and expose itself from enemy fleet salvos upon doing so. The same thing for RU radars, they have a fixed 11.7km radar range, but starting from tier 9 your concealment values stays within 12-13km (even with CE build) and don't forget you have battleship size-profile, so like what slam said, its a huge risk in terms of maximum radar effectiveness. And anyway, the reason why they implemented an additional consumable was to improve the gameplay for US Cruiser line since they were under-performing compared to the other nations. Also, there is a hint that there will be the release of catapult bombers as an additional consumable slot  specially for the IJN cruiser line (or premium), but for KM line i do not know.

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keep your tinfoil hat on, bro, u don't even play ijn dds(21 battles in fubuki? lolno), which invalidates your entire point.

 

Just because I didn't bother with the easy mode when it was around doesn't mean I don't have eyes and an analytical mind that can see what's going on.

 

 

I didn't won't get into the slinging match you obviously want with your "speculative nonsense" comment, but seeing as you brought up stats, you're own stat's are EXTREEMLY IJN dd heavy, which show's your one of the one's I was referring to as having his easy mode taken away and not being happy about it with the torp changes. Again, I see this as the real reason you're complaining and it's nothing to do with radar, which is fine.

 

 

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You think it's risk free moving that close up with the cruiser? The best radar is 12km and lasts 30seconds. The Moskva can get off 3 salvos. Mostly 2. The DM has 10km radar at 40secs. The DM can fire 6 salvos.  Then the wait begins 4-5mins. Even with consumables. 

 

Any bb shell from a nagato upwards can tear you a hole. 

 

It's a risk reward play. If your in radar range of a dd your in 15-20km range of a bb most of the time. 

 

Sorry but as a dd player you need to be situation aware just like a CA player being situation aware or BBs.   

 

Saying how many salvos a particular cruiser can get off is irrelevant.  Firstly two or three salvos from any high tier cruiser will demolish a DD, and secondly it's never just one ship, it's every ship that's paying even the mildest attention to the game that will start launching salvos at you.

 

If a cruiser can't move up because they are facing a powerful group of enemies, then that's just the game working as intended.  A balanced force of DD's, CA/CL's and BB's should be a formidable group that you can't just push into.  It's up to your opposing group to outplay them to the point that you can push.  You shouldn't just get an I-win button that nullifies a crucial part of that force. It just doesn't make for good balanced play.

 

In that situation it's up to your DD's to outplay their DD's - this is one of the most crucial parts of the game, as the DD battle often decides the outcome.  If your DD's have lost that battle, then you should be at a large disadvantage - being able to press a button to nullify the advantage that was hard earned by the other team is not a good game mechanic.

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Unfortunately radar is here to stay. The whine fest that will happen if they removed it will be of epic proportions.

 

 

Edit: not to mention that radar is kinda the national favour of Russian cruisers.

Edited by TaikoTaiko

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Saying how many salvos a particular cruiser can get off is irrelevant.  Firstly two or three salvos from any high tier cruiser will demolish a DD, and secondly it's never just one ship, it's every ship that's paying even the mildest attention to the game that will start launching salvos at you.

 

If a cruiser can't move up because they are facing a powerful group of enemies, then that's just the game working as intended.  A balanced force of DD's, CA/CL's and BB's should be a formidable group that you can't just push into.  It's up to your opposing group to outplay them to the point that you can push.  You shouldn't just get an I-win button that nullifies a crucial part of that force. It just doesn't make for good balanced play.

 

In that situation it's up to your DD's to outplay their DD's - this is one of the most crucial parts of the game, as the DD battle often decides the outcome.  If your DD's have lost that battle, then you should be at a large disadvantage - being able to press a button to nullify the advantage that was hard earned by the other team is not a good game mechanic.

 

The way i see it, radar was implemented to solve the 'torpedo soup' problem and encouraging teams to go more aggressively in terms of close support as a fleet. As of now, i don't think the devs will worry too much about the radar since it has 'effectively' solved the problem (including the nerf on torps), but rather concentrate on the new nation line and among other things. Until WG has made a statement, we can only assume that radar is part of the permanent consumable and a bridge towards future additional consumables that may be introduced later. So that each nation has its own unique additional consumable, currently IJN and KM do not have this feature.

Edited by HeroOfWind

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Unfortunately radar is here to stay. The whine fest that will happen if they removed it will be of epic proportions.

 

 

Edit: not to mention that radar is kinda the national favour of Russian cruisers.

 

Maybe he just wants to remove the radar on indiana jones so that he does not need to worry about it in the upcoming rank battles :trollface:

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Unfortunately radar is here to stay. The whine fest that will happen if they removed it will be of epic proportions.

 

 

Edit: not to mention that radar is kinda the national favour of Russian cruisers.

 

The way i see it, radar was implemented to solve the 'torpedo soup' problem and encouraging teams to go more aggressively in terms of close support as a fleet. As of now, i don't think the devs will worry too much about the radar since it has 'effectively' solved the problem (including the nerf on torps), but rather concentrate on the new nation line and among other things. Until WG has made a statement, we can only assume that radar is part of the permanent consumable and a bridge towards future additional consumables that may be introduced later. So that each nation has its own unique additional consumable, currently IJN and KM do not have this feature.

 

I agree entirely, it's here to stay.  Defensive fire is an equally low skill consumable and that's been around since CBT and clearly isn't going anywhere.  Radar might be a permanent addition but that doesn't mean I have to think it's a good one!

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Both teams have radar, so whats the point?

 

Its a legitimate tactic. DD's just have to play smarter.

 

I'm not for or against radar or DDs. I just adapt to the game. BTW, there is a reason I leveled 8 lines to Tier 10. Its because something at some stage will be the flavour of the month.

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Both teams have radar, so whats the point?

 

Its a legitimate tactic. DD's just have to play smarter.

 

I'm not for or against radar or DDs. I just adapt to the game. BTW, there is a reason I leveled 8 lines to Tier 10. Its because something at some stage will be the flavour of the month.

 Oh my, 8 lines to tier 10??? A big salute to you 

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Just because I didn't bother with the easy mode when it was around doesn't mean I don't have eyes and an analytical mind that can see what's going on.

 

 

I didn't won't get into the slinging match you obviously want with your "speculative nonsense" comment, but seeing as you brought up stats, you're own stat's are EXTREEMLY IJN dd heavy, which show's your one of the one's I was referring to as having his easy mode taken away and not being happy about it with the torp changes. Again, I see this as the real reason you're complaining and it's nothing to do with radar, which is fine.

 

 

 

yes, my stats are extremely ijn dd heavy, so i represent the people worst affected by the radar.

 

Usn dds are fine even with radar, with their absurdly strong torpedoes and useable guns, whilst the ijn line simply cannot do that.

 

And please, it isn't "easy mode" in dds taken away.

It's "What niche that the dds had in the first place, especially ijn ones, completely removed."

 

I'd like to see u try to outplay a cruiser in a cap battle 1v1. And don't give me that bs "push with a cruiser" coz that sure aint happening 100% of the time. 

 

I want to be rewarded if i beat my ship type counter by outplaying him, not be punished because I predicted accurately and he has this crutch that keeps me away from the cap regardless of whether it is on cooldown. That is what i mean.

 

If i was rude i'm sorry.

 

 

 

Edited by Kleiss

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OP, judging a game mechanic from the perspective of only one class, especially the victim is generally a bad idea.

By your logic, then you can't argue when a battleship player says torps are OP, because they are the people worst affected by it,

and you don't have many battles in high tier BB so your opinion is invalid. You won't like that, will you...?

I'm not saying you're wrong about radar, just suggesting that you should also look from the perspective of other classes before making judgements, 

and not dismissing someone's opinion just because they haven't played a class.

 

Personally, I also think that radar is currently a bit too strong, especially the russian ones. But, I support it being in the game.

Why? Simply because it brings diversity to the high tier MM. Before the radar is implemented, I keep seing multiple Zao in the CA lineup, and Shima in the DD lineup.

It's not rare to see more than 4 of those same ships in one MM. Frankly, it's boring to keep facing the same ship.

Now with the implementation of radar, I see people starts using USN CA more often. And gearing/khaba also appear more frequently.

It makes the game feels more dynamic and that alone, is a good change that I can support. 

 

But do I think the balance is fine now? No, and probably never will. Regardless of radar will stay or not, I will simply adapt and overcome.

That's how you can stay sane in this game. :3

 

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IMO, radar is something bad for both CA and DD gameplay(I mean the players' feeling)

the situation is alike to AA

with weak AA, you can't take down planes

with strong AA, you can't take down planes as well, cuz no planes get near you

same as radar

without radar, DD stay 7km away and spam torp

with radar, DD stay 10km away and spam torp

 

DD is dead when being spotted, so DD will never be spotted

radar doesn't give CA chance to catch DD, but limit DD's functionality and gameplay

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