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AsakuraShinji

Gunboat IJN DD, Is it viable?

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Greetings, everyone. o7

 

As you can see, this is my first time posting on this forum, so let me briefly introduce myself first.

I'm an Indonesian player, plays mainly cruisers first and battleships second. Currently still learning to play DDs and CVs.

I will probably start to visit this forum more often from now on, so nice to meet you all. :>

 

On to the main topic. One of my goal in this game is to reach tier X in all ship lines, but I have a sliiight problem with it... That is, I just can't seem to enjoy the playing style of Japanese Destroyers.

Their playstyle feels slow-paced, and I also think their damage potential depends too much on the enemy's lack of awareness. Or I just suck at aiming torps, ahaha.

 

But anyways, I heard that starting from Hatsuharu and up, IJN DDs guns are actually quite good. So guns/torps hybrid build is quite feasible.

My question is, is it possible to play high-tier IJN DDs as a gunboat? Basically, I want to play them like a Blyskawica. Stealth firing from concealment/smoke and annoy those battleships.

Of course I will still use my torps when they are ready, it's just that I won't rely on them as much. I hate running idle waiting for my torps to arrive, only to find all of them missed... TwT

My main concern is whether the damage dealt by my guns worth the risk of revealing my position. Especially in high-tier, where the guns are frighteningly accurate. And not to mention CVs and radars.

 

So, this is the build I'm thinking of :

 

Captain skills :

1 - Situation Awareness

3 - Last Stand

6 - Superintendent

10 - AFT

15 - Concealment Expert

17 - Expert Marksman

18 - BFT

 

Upgrades : 

Slot 1 - Main battery upgrade

Slot 2 - + Turret Traverse, - Reload (Will change to accuracy after I got EM)

Slot 3 - Main battery range

Slot 4 - Propulsion

Slot 5 - Acceleration

Slot 6 - Concealment

 

So what do you guys think? Is it viable? Or maybe an alternative suggestion to make my IJN DD life more enjoyable? :)

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Beta Tester
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You've got the wrong DD line, IJN is about torpedoes over guns, and guns are only used if camo is broken or to finish off dying enemies (basically camo is life and guns are only when necessary)

 

If you want brawling gunboats (they have crazy fast reloads), go for the US line as they still have ok torpedoes and can stealth torp, but they have slow shells and loopy arcs

 

If you want mini-cruiser gunboats, go Russian as they have flat arcs and basically improve IJN guns with better HE and better traverse/RoF, torpedoes are for suicidal runs only

 

But if you insist, play the IJN line correctly and use guns when the situation allows, but for the most part its scouting and torpedoes, they are not fast enough to be harassment gunboats like the Russians nor posses the firing rate, smoke or range of US DD's. 

 

Skills:

Tier 1 - In priority -  situational awareness (must!!) > basic firing training (better gun Rof)

Tier 2 - Yes, you need that rudder and engine to survive!!! (torpedo reload or gun gun traverse also possible, but since IJN torpedoe I guess)

Tier 3 - Superintendant can be switched with torpedo detection as premium consumables have 1 more charge

Tier 4 - AFT? Not worth it, IJN DD guns have good alpha and flat arcs, but still have slow traverse bad rate of fire and AA is effectively an announcement to CV's saying here I am, come bomb me!!. I would say survivability expert to stay alive longer

Tier 5 - Concealment yes 

 

Equipment wise

1 -Yes

2 - Get torpedo tube protection, never sacrifice RoF of guns

3 - You can't upgrade main battery range on DD's, so perhaps RoF ungrade?

4 - Propulsion, ok, but I prefer rudder protection 

6 - Rudder shift over acceleration as IJN DD's are slow anyways and turning will save you from getting shot rather than a slight acceleration bonus

7 - Concealment always

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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To be fair, IJN DD gunboating isn't inherently bad, it's just that the IJN destroyers are absolutely terrible at it compared to the other two DD lines so you're always going to end up on the bad side of any engagement. It'd pretty much be easier to learn how to use the torpedoes.

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Hi!


As some have stated the IJN DD are not great at gun boating because of turret traverse, ROF and maneuverability. However, I have tried out USN (T6), VMF (T5) and IJN DDs (T8) and have found that I still like the IJN best for gun boating and torps. My main is a Fubuki.

 

Here's how I made it work:

 

10 - AFT

15 - Concealment Expert

 

AFT + CE + Camo are key, it allows invis fire and alpha strike at 9km or so. However since the IJN ROF and maneuverability is horrible compared to USN and VMF, you must get your positioning and alpha strike spot on as IJN DD guns have the best dmg at T7-8. If you don't the odds fall into the USN and VMF's favor.

 

Try the lines and see how it pans out, at about T5-6 the boats pretty much reflects how they work in the higher tiers.

 

FW

Edited by Fannwong

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Super Tester
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Japanese DDs can utilise their guns quite nicely and effectively.

The only issue is that with the RU DD line we have an entire line of DDs that has the same playstyle (gun wise) as them,

but is overall better. (After all they pay for it by being easier targets with worse torpedoes)

 

In general JP DDs, even the tier II, can make quite nice use of their guns.

However their playstyle for this differs when compared to US DDs and (somewhat) RU DDs.

JP DDs rely on alpha damage to whittle down a target until a brawl is actually viable.

This is especially true for fighting other DDs.

 

Outside of this they can easily fire away at enemy ships without being spotted for extra damage

or utilize their maneuverability to dodge incoming shells if spotted.

 

Especially noteworthy is that the longer reload of a JP DD gives the player more time to focus on

evasive maneuvers.

Where both US and RU DD players have to cut down their time to maintain their DPM, JP DDs can

fire away and maneuver into a bad firing arc for several seconds before having to turn back towards the target.

 

This in particular can give the edge in a DD brawl since the US/RU DD will lose a fight if they can't consistently hit and damage the JP DD.

 

Last but not least, fighting a DD brawl with a JP DD is almost always an uphill battle, but a pretty rewarding one.

Not only does taking out a DD help your team to cut down on the enemy's mobility and viewrange, not to mention firepower,

but it also nets you pretty decent exp/credit income.

 

PS: Tactically launching torpedoes in a DD brawl ftw, make the enemy DD explode or turn into a bad firing arc.

The focus should be to make the DD turn into a position where only one or two guns can return fire.

 

PS²: JP DDs, just like RU DDs are perfect support DDs for multiple ship brawls/wolfpacks.

US DD(s) go up front to avoid damage with their mobility while dealing decent damage despite often finding 1-2 guns out of their firing arc

and JP/RU DDS support them from close to mid range with high damage volley fire.

Edited by Retia

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Alpha Tester
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IJN DD's guns are reliable other than tier 5-6 which have pathetic fire power and/or long reload plus lower range than tier 4 despite have the same gun

but using it is still only when necessary, IJN main weapon still the torpedo 

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Super Tester
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If you don't use your guns on a Japanese destroyer, you are effectively playing with one hand tied behind your back.

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Beta Tester
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If you don't use your guns on a Japanese destroyer, you are effectively playing with one hand tied behind your back.

 

Many peoples forget that IJN DD gun hit like a truck, 2000 Dmg per salvo is normal :trollface:

 

When combine with AFT and Concealment you got the best troll machine :D:D:D 

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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well.... there's was the time when I duel gun with fletcher in my kagero......

(torpedo and smoke are in reload and I'm too slow to runaway)

 

imagine some deer try to runaway from cheetah, kick some small dirt at their face while run

 

......you know the result...... T_T

 

 

Edited by PGM991

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Remember a Good USN DD Captain will always beat you in a 1v1 fight or a fight rather, even if you decide to go all Gun boat build on your IJN.

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If you want to play a gunboat, play the Russian DD line. If you want a mix of gun and torpedo, play the US DD line. IJN guns might be good but it's not as good as the other 2 lines. You are never gonna out do the other 2 lines in gun damage. It depends on the situation if it's worth using your gun at the time.  

 

For example, your torpedos just flooded a battleship and he repaired the flooding. It's a lone battleship with no allies around. Shooting it with guns to make it burn is a good idea. Once it burns, stop shooting. Your stealth is important. And also for finishing off low health targets.

Edited by TaikoTaiko

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well.... there's was the time when I duel gun with fletcher in my kagero......

(torpedo and smoke are in reload and I'm too slow to runaway)

 

imagine some deer try to runaway from cheetah, kick some small dirt at their face while run

 

......you know the result...... T_T

 

You not suppose to fight da Fletcher after all :D:D:D

 

But burn da crap out of Yamato with invisi-fire IJN guns and finish it off  with oxygen torpedoes is a real joy :D:D:D

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Hi there! Welcome to WoWS! As for your question it's kind of a tricky issue here... As most have said here, IJN DDs priortize more on Torpedoes rather than guns because IJN DD Guns are really terribad that is until you get to the higher tiers like T8-and-up but even at those tiers you'll be finding that the torps are even better than the guns but the guns will be decent at best than the lower tier IJN DDs...

 

Most of the time as you go along you'll find that IJN torps are very effective compared to other torpedoes from the other nations and coupled with ninja-like stealth it becomes a deadly combination... but it is as they say, use the guns as a last ditch card when you're either finishing off critically wounded opponents or when someone actually spots you...

 

The thing is, when any ship fires their guns they ruin their stealth and IJN DDs are not exactly the survivable kind of DD compared to the other nations' DDs... So stealth-is-life for IJN DDs therefore the preference for ninja-torping is much more feasible...

 

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Kinda, its viable but as a secondary source of damage,

The Torpedo's will still outclass your guns even when spec'd as a gunboat.

 

(watch for inspiration) 

 

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First, thanks for all the replies.

 

To be fair, IJN DD gunboating isn't inherently bad, it's just that the IJN destroyers are absolutely terrible at it compared to the other two DD lines so you're always going to end up on the bad side of any engagement. It'd pretty much be easier to learn how to use the torpedoes.

 

IJN DD's guns are reliable other than tier 5-6 which have pathetic fire power and/or long reload plus lower range than tier 4 despite have the same gun

but using it is still only when necessary, IJN main weapon still the torpedo 

 

Remember a Good USN DD Captain will always beat you in a 1v1 fight or a fight rather, even if you decide to go all Gun boat build on your IJN.

 

If you want to play a gunboat, play the Russian DD line. If you want a mix of gun and torpedo, play the US DD line. IJN guns might be good but it's not as good as the other 2 lines. You are never gonna out do the other 2 lines in gun damage. It depends on the situation if it's worth using your gun at the time.  

 

For example, your torpedos just flooded a battleship and he repaired the flooding. It's a lone battleship with no allies around. Shooting it with guns to make it burn is a good idea. Once it burns, stop shooting. Your stealth is important. And also for finishing off low health targets.

 

I am aware that IJN DDs are not as good as RU or US DDs when it comes to guns, as many have stated. I'm not expecting to beat the other two lines in gun duels,

or an amazing damage output from the guns. My main target will still be battleships, will still use torps, and I will avoid fighting stronger DDs unless I have to.

As long as I can stay useful and not being a burden to my team that's enough for me.

 

That's why I asked about it here, to know if it's viable enough. If most players thinks it is a bad idea, then I will of course scrap this build.

But if it is possible, even if difficult, I think it's worth a try. :>

 

If you don't use your guns on a Japanese destroyer, you are effectively playing with one hand tied behind your back.

 

Yes, but I'm talking about using my guns as primary means of attack, instead of only for setting fires or fighting other DDs.

 

Skills:

Tier 4 - AFT? Not worth it, IJN DD guns have good alpha and flat arcs, but still have slow traverse bad rate of fire and AA is effectively an announcement to CV's saying here I am, come bomb me!!. I would say survivability expert to stay alive longer

 

Equipment wise

3 - You can't upgrade main battery range on DD's, so perhaps RoF ungrade?

 

About the AFT, I thought you need both AFT and CE in order be able to stealth fire comfortably? IIRC, you can only stealth fire at around 9km or so.

And I believe you can take range upgrade on tier 9-10 IJN and USN DDs, but not RU DDs. RoF upgrade will make the slow turret traverse even worse, so I don't think I'll take it.

Thanks very much for your other suggestions, I'll consider them. :>

 

Hi!


As some have stated the IJN DD are not great at gun boating because of turret traverse, ROF and maneuverability. However, I have tried out USN (T6), VMF (T5) and IJN DDs (T8) and have found that I still like the IJN best for gun boating and torps. My main is a Fubuki.

 

Here's how I made it work:

 

10 - AFT

15 - Concealment Expert

 

AFT + CE + Camo are key, it allows invis fire and alpha strike at 9km or so. However since the IJN ROF and maneuverability is horrible compared to USN and VMF, you must get your positioning and alpha strike spot on as IJN DD guns have the best dmg at T7-8. If you don't the odds fall into the USN and VMF's favor.

 

Try the lines and see how it pans out, at about T5-6 the boats pretty much reflects how they work in the higher tiers.

 

FW

 

Hi Fannwong! I also think that the AFT and CE is crucial, that's why I'm going to wait until I have 15 point captain to try this build.

Thanks for your suggestions~

 

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Especially noteworthy is that the longer reload of a JP DD gives the player more time to focus on

evasive maneuvers.

Where both US and RU DD players have to cut down their time to maintain their DPM, JP DDs can

fire away and maneuver into a bad firing arc for several seconds before having to turn back towards the target.

 

This in particular can give the edge in a DD brawl since the US/RU DD will lose a fight if they can't consistently hit and damage the JP DD.

 

PS: Tactically launching torpedoes in a DD brawl ftw, make the enemy DD explode or turn into a bad firing arc.

The focus should be to make the DD turn into a position where only one or two guns can return fire.

 

I see, that's interesting. I guess that explains why I sometimes having trouble killing IJN DDs even when I'm in USN DDs. :teethhappy:

 

Its could be done with Akizuki

 

 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Akizuki.jpg

 

 

:trollface:Yeah sure, of course you can. I use this setup in my tier 5 Matsu class, tier 9 Akizuki class and tier 10 super Akizuki class

 

Ok, I want that ship. Where can I get her? :trollface:

 

well.... there's was the time when I duel gun with fletcher in my kagero......

(torpedo and smoke are in reload and I'm too slow to runaway)

 

imagine some deer try to runaway from cheetah, kick some small dirt at their face while run

 

......you know the result...... T_T

 

 

 

Ouch, kinda remains me when a Kutuzov ambushed my Blyska 4km away and my torps is on cooldown... He had sonar too. X3

 

Yes it is i even run Gunboat set-up with my Fubuki not as good as USN or RU but still super fun to play :D

 

That's exactly what I'm looking for. The fun that comes with it. :playing:

 

Hi there! Welcome to WoWS! As for your question it's kind of a tricky issue here... As most have said here, IJN DDs priortize more on Torpedoes rather than guns because IJN DD Guns are really terribad that is until you get to the higher tiers like T8-and-up but even at those tiers you'll be finding that the torps are even better than the guns but the guns will be decent at best than the lower tier IJN DDs...

 

Most of the time as you go along you'll find that IJN torps are very effective compared to other torpedoes from the other nations and coupled with ninja-like stealth it becomes a deadly combination... but it is as they say, use the guns as a last ditch card when you're either finishing off critically wounded opponents or when someone actually spots you...

 

The thing is, when any ship fires their guns they ruin their stealth and IJN DDs are not exactly the survivable kind of DD compared to the other nations' DDs... So stealth-is-life for IJN DDs therefore the preference for ninja-torping is much more feasible...

 

Hello Kreigg. Just a bit of correction, I'm new to the forum, but not to WoWs. Regardless, thanks very much for the welcome. ^^

As I have stated above, I'm aware that torps is IJN DDs, main weapon. It's just that I don't really like ninja-torping playstyle.

That's why I asked if it's feasible. I not, I will just scrap this idea and play like a normal IJN DD. :3

 

Kinda, its viable but as a secondary source of damage,

The Torpedo's will still outclass your guns even when spec'd as a gunboat.

 

(watch for inspiration) 

 

 

Oh, I subscribed to IChase channel long ago, but it seems I missed that video, lol. Thanks for the link!

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Eh,

 

IJN gunboats r bes.

 

High-velocity, high-alpha and shallow arcs guarantee that on a per-shot basis, it is superior to the faster-firing rainbow cannons the other nations' lines are. Some guy above already made the excellent point that slower reloads allow the captain to dodge more often. Imagine an alpha strike of 1k per good hit on the enemy DD compared to other nations' puny 3-digit hits that require even more shots destroy you. Combine that with excellent speed (Buki and Kagero-class DDs are horrible, if you ask me), maneuverability and good forward-facing torpedo arcs and you got an ace up your sleeve every time you knife-fight enemy DDs.

 

But I must make one thing clear. On a DPS contest, the IJN guns lose. But if you're using islands to cover your reloads, all is well. But if you're backed into a corner, it's best to do the absolutely verboten in an IJN DD and dive. If you want a quick end to a sustained gunfight, a single undodgeable torpedo fired at <2km away will solve everything- Although I must admit that the success largely depends on skill and patience. In a knife-fight between DDs, the first to fire all his ship's torpedoes loses.

 

Torpedo-discipline is something an IJN player has to learn for both Mutsuki and Hatsuharu- Sometimes, it's best to simply save them for when you need them rather than stealth-firing at dodge-savvy enemies due to both only have two triple-tube launchers. Remember, the mere presence of an IJN DD makes the enemy think: "Incoming torps, hard turn port/starboard side!" They tend to forget that a few friendly ships were waiting for a glorious broadside to show itself, putting themselves in danger without wasting your torpedoes. Those two ships are very team-oriented compared to hunter-killer Minekaze and wall-builders Buki and Shima.

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Alpha Tester
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you can't use gun to DUEL anything bigger than a destroyer with IJN DD

so it is not viable

Edited by Harpoon01

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ST Coordinator
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tnEkW6i.jpg

There is nothing wrong with using guns on an IJN DD. It is also a nice bait if you see the enemy turning away from your torpedo spread, you can bait them to turn back to engage you and eat your torpedoes or set them on fire so they use a repair and then get hit by your torpedoes and get flooded.

 

you can't use gun to anything bigger than a destroyer with IJN DD

so it is not viable

 

I've sunk cruisers and battleships in my IJN DD with gun kills before.

 

 

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Super Tester
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you can't use gun to anything bigger than a destroyer with IJN DD

so it is not viable

 

i wouldn't say that.

the HE from IJN DD is kinda lethal on its own way.

i did crippling a tirpitz from 13k to dead just with gun alone with IJN DD..

yes it takes longer than what other DD can do, due the slow reload, but its still possible.

as to cruisers?

2-3k damage per salvo from IJN DD is possible.

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i wouldn't say that.

the HE from IJN DD is kinda lethal on its own way.

i did crippling a tirpitz from 13k to dead just with gun alone with IJN DD..

yes it takes longer than what other DD can do, due the slow reload, but its still possible.

as to cruisers?

2-3k damage per salvo from IJN DD is possible.

 

I once sunk a Full HP Pensacola with only Fubuki guns :D:D:D

 

Invisi-fire for 5 min i say :trollface:

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