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Unraveler

Secondary Battery Performance

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Beta Tester
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The Public Test server is a great place to try out various builds. After spending some time testing potentially viable secondary-focused setups for certain high-tier battleships and cruisers, I've reached some conclusions.

 

Firstly, there aren't any cruisers that can make good use of secondaries. Roon, for example, appears suitable on paper but it simply doesn't perform in battle. The guns shoot, the shells hit, but... the damage doesn't materialise for some reason. A great many of the 105mm HE hits simply do zero damage even to destroyers.

 

Battleships are better, of course. Izumo, Yamato - and now Montana also - have tremendous range on their secondary batteries. They also have a great many of them. Even so, they must sacrifice some very useful modules for a secondary-focused build and in many high-tier battles the secondaries will never get to fire a shot.

 

Lower down the tiers we find some battleships (and players) more inclined towards brawling. However, the 5-point manual secondary skill does very little for ships below Tier 7. That leaves two prominent contenders for viable secondary builds: Nagato and Colorado.

 

Nagato looks good in theory. Lots of secondaries, decent range. The ship itself isn't too bad at brawling, either. Actual battle results were very disappointing, however. All those casemate guns lining the sides are firing AP rounds which do virtually nothing - whether its a destroyer, a cruiser, or a battleship. They hit but rarely cause any damage. The dual-purpose batteries (firing HE) do actually work well but there simply isn't enough of them to make a secondary build worthwhile. It's interesting to note that the few dual-purpose batteries consistently scored far more damage than the multitude of AP batteries, even without counting the damage from fires.

 

Colorado looks pretty poor on paper. Same decent range, but far fewer secondary batteries. Battle results were surprising, though, with a much better secondary performance than Nagato due to all batteries firing HE. Was it good enough to warrant a secondary build instead of main gun range or AA range module, and 5 extra skill points spent elsewhere? No. Not even close. The damage just isn't there. Keep in mind that this is with suicidal very aggressive play on Test, against players who tend to be less experienced and more reckless than on live. Ideal conditions for testing secondary gun potency.

 

For such a big investment of skills and modules I was hoping for better results. At the moment, none of the ships in game (except, perhaps, Tirpitz which I haven't played and cannot test) benefit much from secondary builds. The damage is too insignificant and inconsistent to be worth enhancing. There's much more useful skills and modules to use instead.

 

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Super Tester
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21. Do you plan to buff the skill Manual fire control for secondary guns?
A. It was kind of a new mechanic, some sort of experiment, we didn’t know how it would change the gameplay. According to our statistics, this skill isn’t always beneficial, especially at its cost, and players are hesitant to pick it up. It also is only useful for BB’s.
That is why we plan to reduce its cost or to have it increase secondary guns range. We were quite anxious when making this skill since in patch 0.2.2.5, secondary guns were very powerful and battles consisted mainly of BB’s fighting each other, with maybe one or two DD’s and cruisers weren’t widely played. So we were slightly worried. Secondary guns should be dangerous to DD’s so we have decided we could slightly buff this skill. How we will do it is a different question entirely. We still haven’t reached a final decision. Changes regarding this matter won’t come in patch 0.5.5. However, we’re aware the skill is slightly underpowered compared to other tier 5 skills and thus will find a way to improve it.

 

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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Beta Tester
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Ah, that's interesting. It's something of a cruel irony that the one ship in game that actually relies on its secondaries - Mikasa - cannot mount the module to improve their range and accuracy. Hopefully we'll see them improved over the next few patches, just as we've seen AA performance improve noticeably.

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Video Contributor
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Tirpitz have potent secondaries, 14 barrels per broadside and about 8 of them can shoot forward.. It also fires HE which is preferable for secondaries, though it lacks the range compared to other T8 BBs

 

But yeah, the manual secondary skill is too expensive without any meaningful use atm, and it's currently bugged.. If it were to be kept as T5 skill i would like it to provide extra range

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Unfortunately it's still not viable to do the full secondary build D;

If i were to sail a yammy and you would want to convince me to get the captain secondary skill i would spend a max of 4 points on it. WG shld take a hint

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Super Tester
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I'm all for buffing the perk and secondary weapons in general instead of making it cheaper.

 

One point cheaper clashes with AFT. Any less than that and you have to dramatically scale back its effectiveness. 

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Super Tester
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Don't forget they still need to fix the bug where the other side of your secondary batteries refuse to fire at another target upon selecting a manual target with the skill (which it should not happen)

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How long did you try being close to a target to see how much damage was caused?There was a post on the NA forum talking about how secondaries were not working properly at approx 2.5km and under:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/79633-secondaries-become-useless-at-close-range-despite-the-5pt-secondary-captain-perk/#topmost

 

And someone posted a video of them in action:

 

 

 

In that video he had manual secondary skill ( not sure about AFT),and seemed to be doing a fair amount of damage with them.Just wondering if you thought they needed to be more effective over a sorter amount of time to really be worth the effort or you tests didn't come up with the same amount of damage?

 

Once I got the points up on some of my ships ( which will be a long time ),I was looking at adding the 5 point skill to some of them.I will have to keep en eye on how much if at all WG buff if.

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Super Tester
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No. The bug is that the secondaries aimed directly at the water line. Not the superstructure. 

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Some more info I found for you.

 

Some news regarding 0.5.6. Source

  • 0.5.7. will bring changes to upgrades (modules).
  • Mikasa was first released as a ship "not appropriate for all players" and intended for "collectors". That is why they don't plan to change it for now.
  • Secondary guns accuracy bug should be fixed in this patch (5.6).

 

 

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No. The bug is that the secondaries aimed directly at the water line. Not the superstructure. 

 

I wasn't worried about the actual bug itself,the post was more about how much damage the player was doing and how it compared to what the OP of this thread had found.Not disputing Unraveler's claims,just seeing how it compared to his experience.

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How long did you try being close to a target to see how much damage was caused?There was a post on the NA forum talking about how secondaries were not working properly at approx 2.5km and under:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/79633-secondaries-become-useless-at-close-range-despite-the-5pt-secondary-captain-perk/#topmost

 

And someone posted a video of them in action:

 

In that video he had manual secondary skill ( not sure about AFT),and seemed to be doing a fair amount of damage with them.Just wondering if you thought they needed to be more effective over a sorter amount of time to really be worth the effort or you tests didn't come up with the same amount of damage?

 

Once I got the points up on some of my ships ( which will be a long time ),I was looking at adding the 5 point skill to some of them.I will have to keep en eye on how much if at all WG buff if.

 

The bug seems to be fixed on the Test Server as far as scoring hits goes. It varies heavily depending on the target, but the hit rate was up around 25% in most battles. Targets such as a destroyer dodging around near the max range will obviously take a lot less hits.

 

The effect of those hits, though, is... underwhelming. In the case of AP secondaries you'll see results like: 200 shots fired! 60 hits! 1,100 damage...! as the new results screen displays the exact damage total each of your weapons did to each target. 

 

 

No. The bug is that the secondaries aimed directly at the water line. Not the superstructure. 

 

It's possible they're still not aiming at the superstructure. Seeing results like 80 hits from HE secondaries with only 1 fire caused are a little suspicious.

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I tested with my ZTirpitz once i got my hands on the manual secondaries. The result... frankly it's not as worth it as other 5 points skills like reduce detectability. 

 

It impproves damage to DDs. like from a few hundreds to about 2000 hp damage or so (in a match which I get to go brawling, seldom happen though), seeing more modules been incapacitated, but it's not good enough in stopping a DD rushing my tirpitz (yeah still have to use my big guns to defend myself). The damage is negligible to Cruisers, even to other BBs (though chances of setting fire to enemy BBs slightly higher)

 

and Yeah manual firing stopping the secondaries from the other side from firing at another target s very painful.

 

conclusion: frankly, if wants to go performance of the ship (BBs), I think 5 skill points is not really worth it. I put it on my Tirpitz for the fun of it (but... very poor secondary range in Tirpitz!)

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I use a non-manual control secondary build on my Warspite ... with 7.2km range (7.6 with the flag) I've made a few kills on DD's that stray too close

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For such a big investment of skills and modules I was hoping for better results. At the moment, none of the ships in game (except, perhaps, Tirpitz which I haven't played and cannot test) benefit much from secondary builds. The damage is too insignificant and inconsistent to be worth enhancing. There's much more useful skills and modules to use instead.

 

True, i test a full secondary build in yamato. it's not worth it and I regret it but since i don't spend money on this game(no reset), it's staying this way.  yeah it's cool when a lot of guns fire even at 10.5km~ range in my yamato, but it's pure inaccuracy above 5km, little to no damage except to destroyers(7km and below) and only good for setting up fire on battleships and cruiser(which they rarely do too, unless RNG), it sucks.

 

 

True, 7 out of 10 games I don't even meet a ship close enough for my secondaries to fire (10.5km~ secondary range) and i play very aggressively and seldom camp

 

so for those who don't want to be wasting doubloons resetting your yamato, heed this warning.

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Aside from Tirpitz, Kongo also have legit secondary build.

The opportunity for that might be quite rare, however I have experience 1 instance where My Kongo meet "tactical beached" half HP Furutaka on Island.

 

We Both surprised, not expecting each other at 3 km range. my battery just cant turn fast enough. 

and Im preaty sure he was aiming for torpedoes.

but to my surprise those Furutaka Exploded, after The secondaries fired at him Full Salvo in broadside to broadside.

it was deleted in 1 salvo.

I belive it citadel hit, but seems secondaries dont give you a flag

 

normaly AP - Secondaries were inferior to the HE one

but that was just rare cases, when having AP secondaries were actualy feel awesome

 

but still, Secondaries need more buff.

especialy in rate of fire.

regarding captain skill, it just not worthed 5 point for secondaries. 

Edited by humusz

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I'm also concerned about this issue as I have discovered that the Yamato's 155 mm/60 3rd Year Type cannons never shoot in battle I was facing a Hindenburg cruiser and using the manual fire control for secondary armaments skill I noticed when I targeted the Hindenburg that the 155mm guns didn't become active and being that I was at a range of 6 to 8 kilometers I'm quite ticked off at this issue as I enjoy Yamato's awesome firepower but not being able to use all of it and having the lesser hand in what is refered to as by many "the strongest ship in the game" to a cruiser with 203 mm L/60 SK C/34 (main) guns keep in mind I could've destroyed it with my 460 mm main guns but the Yamato has a slow turn rate and it was directly behind me anyway thats going off topic now but my real issue is that Yamato's primary secondary armaments are inactive during combat and no I have not pressed (P) to lock them and I use (Ctrl + LMB) to target the enemy with my secondaries. 

Edited by NZLBROTHERS2016

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You'll probably find that those 155mm secondaries are worthless anyway, since they fire AP.

 

Something else to consider, I suppose, is that none of the ships currently in game are supposed to have good secondaries. It could be something that the future British and German battleships will... CAPITALISE on. Puns intended.

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The bug seems to be fixed on the Test Server as far as scoring hits goes. It varies heavily depending on the target, but the hit rate was up around 25% in most battles. Targets such as a destroyer dodging around near the max range will obviously take a lot less hits.

 

The effect of those hits, though, is... underwhelming. In the case of AP secondaries you'll see results like: 200 shots fired! 60 hits! 1,100 damage...! as the new results screen displays the exact damage total each of your weapons did to each target. 

 

 

 

It's possible they're still not aiming at the superstructure. Seeing results like 80 hits from HE secondaries with only 1 fire caused are a little suspicious.

 

Thanks for the feedback.Be a while before I have enough points on any of my ships to get the manual secondaries.If they aren't still aren't any good by that stage I will just put the points elsewhere.

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You'll probably find that those 155mm secondaries are worthless anyway, since they fire AP.

 

Something else to consider, I suppose, is that none of the ships currently in game are supposed to have good secondaries. It could be something that the future British and German battleships will... CAPITALISE on. Puns intended.

 

Oh, one other thing in case they do make it useful.Did you try stacking Secondary Battery Modification 2 ( -20 Dispersion) with the Manual Secondary skill ( -60  Dispersion high tier)? And did it look like the -80 Dispersion was having the effect of most shells hitting?

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Thanks for the feedback.Be a while before I have enough points on any of my ships to get the manual secondaries.If they aren't still aren't any good by that stage I will just put the points elsewhere.

 

Devs acknowledge the skill is underpowered for a tier 5 skill and that they have plans to buff it.

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Beta Tester
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I hope they do fix the amount of damage that secondary's do.

Here in my izumo I hit 48 shots from the 127mm secondary's and only managed 7277 HP of damage.

that's on average 151 HP worth of damage per shell and most were on a DD but the max HE damage is 2100.

shot-16.05.23_15.46.29-0922.jpg

 

 

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Oh, one other thing in case they do make it useful.Did you try stacking Secondary Battery Modification 2 ( -20 Dispersion) with the Manual Secondary skill ( -60  Dispersion high tier)? And did it look like the -80 Dispersion was having the effect of most shells hitting?

 

Yeah, the ships I tested were fully decked out for secondaries (skills, modules, and flags [i even had the two +0.5% fire-chance flags on when available, which do work with secondaries]). The accuracy improvement is definitely noticeable. In some battles, I'd get almost half my shells hitting - that's pretty impressive for secondaries. As mentioned earlier, though, the effect of those hits was mostly disappointing. In the specific case of Colorado (which probably made the best use of its secondaries of all the ships I tested) you'd be much better off enhancing the AA or main gun range instead of the secondaries (module), and the 5 skill points elsewhere (there's tons of useful skills for a brawling battleship).

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I just wish it was more useful lower down the tiers.

My Mikasa, Ark Beta, Imp Nikolai and Warspite would enjoy it ;)

 

They'd all be great if their secondaries could be employed better. Might even encourage players to play a little more aggressively if battleships had useful secondaries.
Edited by Unraveler

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