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ahwai82

invisible dd rule the game

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97
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in a match with 3 invisible kiev that invisi-fire and pop smoke and what can my team do..nothing

 

poor kongo and new york decimated so quickly busy dodging torps and get set on fire and can't fire back cause none of us can detect them

 

big guns fast reload all these are useless compare to the super stealth

 

 

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Smoke doesn't last forever. Just turn around and go do something else until they come out to play. Unless you're just hanging around and taking shots all day, a battleship doesn't get killed that easily by destroyer guns.

 

Not to mention the myriad counters to flush out an offensively-smoked DD - german cruisers with hydroacoustic search, aircraft, blind-launched torpedoes into smoke, allied DDs (American or Russian) to knife fight, or hell, beating up on the ships outside the smoke cloud so the DDs inside the smoke can't see shit. None of which, it appears, your team employed.

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I feel your pain....but both teams have the same opportunity to use this tactic. Where indeed were your DD's or CA's?

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Well 3 Kievs...each only need to deal 10k HE dmg to kill a Kongo in a focused attack, while fire do the rest. They don't even need the smoke to do that. I'm talking about the power of focused fire.

Edited by Zwelivelle

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97
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in that match only 3 dd on my side vs 5 and no cv

 

3 dd gang up cap B and C while me on nurnberg together with kongo, new york and omaha try to cap A but omaha ran away lol so i try support both bb but too bad we in bad situation

 

using the hydrocoustic does nothing and i can only see them getting burned eat torp and sunk lol

 

well can't say i play well so does my team but in this situation no idea what we can do, can't kill enemy we can't see

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in that match only 3 dd on my side vs 5 and no cv

 

3 dd gang up cap B and C while me on nurnberg together with kongo, new york and omaha try to cap A but omaha ran away lol so i try support both bb but too bad we in bad situation

 

using the hydrocoustic does nothing and i can only see them getting burned eat torp and sunk lol

 

well can't say i play well so does my team but in this situation no idea what we can do, can't kill enemy we can't see

 

And that's why this game relies on teamwork, if your friendlies run for cover the team fails.

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in that match only 3 dd on my side vs 5 and no cv

 

3 dd gang up cap B and C while me on nurnberg together with kongo, new york and omaha try to cap A but omaha ran away lol so i try support both bb but too bad we in bad situation

 

using the hydrocoustic does nothing and i can only see them getting burned eat torp and sunk lol

 

well can't say i play well so does my team but in this situation no idea what we can do, can't kill enemy we can't see

 

Yeah, see? Those battleships were depending on you, specifically, to get closer to the smoke cloud. Hydroacoustic search has a relatively low range (~5km or so for German cruisers), and even if you didn't have it, you're maneuverable enough that you could get in close to detect (and kill them) while being on alert for torpedoes. Not to mention you had torpedoes you could've blind-fired into the smoke to force the DDs to move out of the smoke cloud. You failed to do this, and your team paid the price for it. Consider this a lesson in teamplay.

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Yeah, see? Those battleships were depending on you, specifically, to get closer to the smoke cloud. Hydroacoustic search has a relatively low range (~5km or so for German cruisers), and even if you didn't have it, you're maneuverable enough that you could get in close to detect (and kill them) while being on alert for torpedoes. Not to mention you had torpedoes you could've blind-fired into the smoke to force the DDs to move out of the smoke cloud. You failed to do this, and your team paid the price for it. Consider this a lesson in teamplay.

 

i have move closer with my hydro enabled but still couldn't detect

 

probably they have level 4 aft or even level 5 concealment skill? can invisi-fire and undetectable

 

another match in my pensacola, again no cv and my team dd get killed early on anddddd looking helplessly my teammate in new mexico getting invisi-fire from 2 dd..head to direction where the shots coming from but no ship to shoot at, no idea what to do but turn away lol

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i have move closer with my hydro enabled but still couldn't detect

 

probably they have level 4 aft or even level 5 concealment skill? can invisi-fire and undetectable

 

another match in my pensacola, again no cv and my team dd get killed early on anddddd looking helplessly my teammate in new mexico getting invisi-fire from 2 dd..head to direction where the shots coming from but no ship to shoot at, no idea what to do but turn away lol

 

If you weren't 5km from it in your Nuernberg, you weren't close enough for hydro to detect them, and hydro would have detected any incoming torpedoes long enough for you to see and evade unless you rudderlocked yourself. Drive *closer*. Go into the smoke cloud to flush them out - absolute detection is 2km, regardless of what skills they have. And you know generally where the DD is sitting thanks to where the shell trails are coming from. That's your role as a hard counter to DDs - take them out with your bigger guns and bigger health pool, get in close if you have to. It genuinely sounds like you're giving up way too early when you can't see the ships.

Edited by Syanda

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So 3 Kievs, under the smoke vs

Nuernberg, New York, Kongo, Omaha. Omaha left the battle immediately.

IMO, pls don't shoot me.

 

You (Nuernberg) charging with Hydro accoustic is not a good option either.

While her Hydro accoustic is superb, it is not radar afterall.

If i were the Kiev gang, i'll shot the Nuernberg first, she will quickly disposed under HE fire.

Charging with all three of you is not a good idea, it just make those DD could use their stunt torpedoes to its potential.

As Kiev, i'll gladly leaving the smoke to dive into one of your DD friend when they're close by 8km.

 

My idea is to run, tell your BB friends to turn back at full speed while you're doing the same.

Don't worry, you're dealing with HE shells, so they won't citadel your BB friends when turning.

You need this to negate the advantage of smoke screen.

Sail behind your BB teammates, so those Kievs would not carelessly spam their HE without being answered when they leave the smoke.

 

To add more to your advantage, if Kiev trying to shoot you, you'll have kite advantage.

I mean, it is easy for the ship that being chased to dodge incoming shells while making the pursuer harder to dodge your shell.

Their shells velocity will be reduced by your ship speed, and your shell velocity will be increased by their own speed.

 

Feel free to turn back later when you could manage the situation.

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So 3 Kievs, under the smoke vs

Nuernberg, New York, Kongo, Omaha. Omaha left the battle immediately.

IMO, pls don't shoot me.

 

You (Nuernberg) charging with Hydro accoustic is not a good option either.

While her Hydro accoustic is superb, it is not radar afterall.

If i were the Kiev gang, i'll shot the Nuernberg first, she will quickly disposed under HE fire.

Charging with all three of you is not a good idea, it just make those DD could use their stunt torpedoes to its potential.

As Kiev, i'll gladly leaving the smoke to dive into one of your DD friend when they're close by 8km.

 

My idea is to run, tell your BB friends to turn back at full speed while you're doing the same.

Don't worry, you're dealing with HE shells, so they won't citadel your BB friends when turning.

You need this to negate the advantage of smoke screen.

Sail behind your BB teammates, so those Kievs would not carelessly spam their HE without being answered when they leave the smoke.

 

To add more to your advantage, if Kiev trying to shoot you, you'll have kite advantage.

I mean, it is easy for the ship that being chased to dodge incoming shells while making the pursuer harder to dodge your shell.

Their shells velocity will be reduced by your ship speed, and your shell velocity will be increased by their own speed.

 

Feel free to turn back later when you could manage the situation.

 

Agreeing completely with this. Speaking from my experiences in battleships, there's a lot of non-verbal communication that battleships can and will do in these situations. To the OP - if you see a battleship turning away from HE fire, we expect you to turn with us to help cover us. It means we're not trusting that the threat will be neutralized and are turning away to compensate. At this juncture, we're not expecting you to lose your ship so we can advance - better for all ships to retreat together and fight again when the situation is more favourable. However, if we *are* advancing, it means we're weighing that the incoming fire can be dealt with, but desperately require your backup to kill the the destroyers we're advancing on. Battleships are not completely defenseless - when a DD has been lit up, our primary batteries can deal some pretty heavy sledgehammer damage ,even when firing AP. Enough that any cruisers in support can help finish off what we've just shot at. Furthermore, with a cruiser screening and especially if it has hydroacoustic on, we can detect and deal with incoming torpedoes and shells. But if the cruisers turn away while the battleships are advancing, then it'll be a really shit situation. The same applies if the reverse happens - it's a shit situation if the cruisers advance while the battleships are in full retreat. Most of the time, you'll see battleships do half-half: they don't advance, but turn to clear their broadsides - that's a sign they're looking for targets and it's up to you to help give them the targets for them to shoot at. But, at the end of the day, battleships are the slowest and least maneuverable ships in the game. Cruisers in support are going to have to accept that their movements and decisions are going to be determined by the heavies. I play cruisers almost as much as I do battleships, and frankly, if a battleship turns away for any reason, I'll retreat with it, but if it advances, by god, I'm going to support the advance to the best of my abilities. The big guns are going to be a bit more important in securing control and killing stuff.

 

It's not a guarantee that the combined force will prevail against smoked-up DDs. Hell, it might be a stupid decision if no one else realises what's out there beyond just the smoked destroyers. But the option of sticking to your battleships ensures the highest probability that all of you will survive. If you don't all hang together, you'll surely hang separately.

 

Some of my best random games have been accomplished with not a single verbal communication beyond the F-commands, but with players knowing exactly what to do in circumstances by fighting in a team. If that means spending hitpoints, then so be it. Better to sacrifice one ship to kill multiple and advance on objectives, than for the cruisers to save themselves and leave the battleships fighting single-ship actions against targets they can't see.

Edited by Syanda

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i have move closer with my hydro enabled but still couldn't detect

 

probably they have level 4 aft or even level 5 concealment skill? can invisi-fire and undetectable

 

another match in my pensacola, again no cv and my team dd get killed early on anddddd looking helplessly my teammate in new mexico getting invisi-fire from 2 dd..head to direction where the shots coming from but no ship to shoot at, no idea what to do but turn away lol

This problem addressed to the fact that your team DD getting killed early. I could understand why he turns away, he is using the Pepsi. Could be detected from 15km away.

His idea to flee was good IMO.

 

Things could be better if your team DD didn't killed early on. With no CV they're the absolute cure for this problem. The next viable answer is IJN cruiser with stealth build, Atlanta, and or Radar consumable at high tier cruisers. Another way around will cost you dearly.

 

Next to CV, DD holds the strategic value of your team.

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I'd agree with Syanda here. One of your best options would have been to drive those DDs out of the smoke. Use hydro to detect incoming torps (if you were at 4km [aka Kiev torp range] hydro would probably detect the DD anyway), and fire torps into the smoke and force them out, you have a 2km buffer between his torp range and yours.

 

The other option like he said is to tactically withdraw and cover your BBs, that then forces those Kiev's to follow thus drawing them out.

Edited by ADM_dude

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Agreeing completely with this. Speaking from my experiences in battleships, there's a lot of non-verbal communication that battleships can and will do in these situations. To the OP - if you see a battleship turning away from HE fire, we expect you to turn with us to help cover us. It means we're not trusting that the threat will be neutralized and are turning away to compensate. At this juncture, we're not expecting you to lose your ship so we can advance - better for all ships to retreat together and fight again when the situation is more favourable. However, if we *are* advancing, it means we're weighing that the incoming fire can be dealt with, but desperately require your backup to kill the the destroyers we're advancing on. Battleships are not completely defenseless - when a DD has been lit up, our primary batteries can deal some pretty heavy sledgehammer damage ,even when firing AP. Enough that any cruisers in support can help finish off what we've just shot at. Furthermore, with a cruiser screening and especially if it has hydroacoustic on, we can detect and deal with incoming torpedoes and shells. But if the cruisers turn away while the battleships are advancing, then it'll be a really shit situation. But given that the battleships are the slowest and least maneuverable, a cruiser in support is going to have to accept that it's movements are going to be determined by the heavies. I play cruisers almost as much as I do battleships, and frankly, if a battleship turns away for any reason, I'll retreat with it, but if it advances, by god, I'm going to support the advance to the best of my abilities. The big guns are going to be a bit more important in securing control and killing stuff.

 

It's not a guarantee that the combined force will prevail against smoked-up DDs. But the option of sticking to your battleships ensures the highest probability that all of you will survive.

 

Some of my best random games have been accomplished with not a single verbal communication beyond the F-commands, but with players knowing exactly what to do in circumstances by fighting in a team. If that means spending hitpoints, then so be it. Better to sacrifice one ship to kill multiple and advance on objectives, than for the cruisers to save themselves and leave the battleships fighting single-ship actions against targets they can't see.

If 2 Syandas controlling those BBs, i'll gladly charge to them lol. Take this is a compliment :).

It might be my pessimistic way of thinking to think that average joe BB player won't try their best to dodge, and missed a lot.

Edited by Zwelivelle

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I'd agree with Syanda here. One of your best options would have been to drive those DDs out of the smoke. Use hydro to detect incoming torps (if you were at 4km [aka Kiev torp range] hydro would probably detect the DD anyway), and fire torps into the smoke and force them out, you have a 2km buffer between his torp range and yours.

 

The other option like he said is to tactically withdraw and cover your BBs, that then forces those Kiev's to follow thus drawing them out.

 

Guys dont tell them how to counter those smoke DDs, it will be harder for me to park-pop-shoot :(

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This needs to happen... 3 DDs max per side and Mirror MM for DDs.

 

I'm sure we've all been in a domination match where its 4v1 or even 3v1 DDs... we all know how that game ends.

Edited by KillStealz

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i would charge them in my BB, but no one communicates most turn and run,im too slow to get away,but i can get one alone,just wish for some support,, help the slow BB

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i would charge them in my BB, but no one communicates most turn and run,im too slow to get away,but i can get one alone,just wish for some support,, help the slow BB

 

Charge with 3 kiev in smoke?

Hydrocaustic with nurnberg vs 3 kiev?

 

Just run away. Nurnberg are marshmallows to AP even to low calliber guns of my USN DDs. If those 3 kievs loaded AP and focused on you, you will be dead before you reach 5 km.

Even if all of you charged to them, you will all die given they all land their torps properly. Omaha have seen some nasty things and doing the right thing.

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German cruisers have 6km range torps.IF you were close enough to the smoke in that situation launch them in,I have sunk or damaged a few DDs that way.

 

Also,even if you are say at 7km out from the smoke launch anyway,its usually enough to scare them out of there although the kills and damage I did above were quite often on people who weren't paying attention!).

 

And with the Nurnberg do NOT rely on its maneuverability,even with rudder upgrades it turns like a BB ( I am up to the Admiral Hipper so far and its the only German cruiser so far that turns properly,and I didn't need to get the rudder upgrade on it ) .If you go into the smoke after them pop your Hydroacoustic Smoke a couple of kilometers out on the way in and go in straight on ready to dodge ( Launch torps before you get close to flush them).

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German cruisers have 6km range torps.IF you were close enough to the smoke in that situation launch them in,I have sunk or damaged a few DDs that way.

 

Also,even if you are say at 7km out from the smoke launch anyway,its usually enough to scare them out of there although the kills and damage I did above were quite often on people who weren't paying attention!).

 

And with the Nurnberg do NOT rely on its maneuverability,even with rudder upgrades it turns like a BB ( I am up to the Admiral Hipper so far and its the only German cruiser so far that turns properly,and I didn't need to get the rudder upgrade on it ) .If you go into the smoke after them pop your Hydroacoustic Smoke a couple of kilometers out on the way in and go in straight on ready to dodge ( Launch torps before you get close to flush them).

 

If you go closing in to those DDs, chances are you will be the closest ship to the enemy and if they have good backups behind, you are dead, more so if you are at high tier games.

 

The guy was a nurnberg and facing a nasty bunch of 3 kievs. WIth no DD and CV support, retreat is the only option. You will most likely be dead before you reach your 6 km torp dropping distance if they focused on you.

Less maneuverable cruisers are also bad at hunting DDs, there will be high chance he eats a full salvo of torp from either of those 3 kievs

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97
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annoyingly again i'm dropped into a match with no dd no cv and fubuki and kiev on enemy team

 

the kiev invisi-fire from out of it's detection range so we can't see them so blind firing into where their shots came from and hope do some damage but no success 

 

can't counter dd that can invisi-fire is so annoying

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LOL. Invis-fire is annoying, but nothing you can do.. just run... and hope the DD make a mistake and push too far in and get detected by your allied DDs or get sunk in a torp wall.. :D

 

Edited by RenaricFox

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