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wookielord

DDs .torps detected to early now

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Since the last update i can not get more than 1 mabey 2 torp hits, because the enemy detect them now so early that they just avoid them. Almost all of the spread every time i try a torp run.Even at 5 and 6 k they just stop there propulsion to zero or just turn??I know we have that captain stat for extra speed minus 20% range but it dont make much diff. Add this and hydrophonics and i cant hit a barn door LOL..It seems lately the balance keeps going from one class to another, the balance is i think a little to far to Carriers and Cruisers..Atlleast right now it seems this way???Its starting to be a little disheartening watching spread after spread just go sailing by....????cheers guys 

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Super Tester
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There is a captain skill that increases torpedo detection range by 20%. Alot of Battleships run this skill but its not needed for the seasoned player. Good players will know how to avoid torpedoes or at least mitigate most damage, anyway.

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There is a captain skill that increases torpedo detection range by 20%. Alot of Battleships run this skill but its not needed for the seasoned player. Good players will know how to avoid torpedoes or at least mitigate most damage, anyway.

 

Agree good players are just that good but i might get to try say 10 attack runs and they just sail on bye sigh lol mabey if the captain skill for extra speed loss of range could be raised to 10 to 12 knots to help, plus make up for the 2 k loss of range. 5 knots its just not worth the loss of range..I am a DDs specialist i have all Russian navy and am at tier 7 JPN so like to think i am atlleast competative and helpful to my side most games ..Cheers
Edited by wookielord

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In fact, the torpedo detecting range has been reduced(which means they're harder to be detected) a few patches ago

but (high tier IJN)torpedo still get spotted far away,

as you can see, high tier IJN torpedo has an average hit rate of 5%(1 hit per 20 torpedoes)

 

after playing IJN BB line and German CL/CA line,

I found that BB cannot evade torpedo if they don't turn before they're seen

but usually there are some CAs/DDs around the BB

 

after all, DD are still having the lowest average damage

so don't depend too much on the torpedo,

make use of your guns and concealment to benefits your team

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In fact, the torpedo detecting range has been reduced(which means they're harder to be detected) a few patches ago

but (high tier IJN)torpedo still get spotted far away,

as you can see, high tier IJN torpedo has an average hit rate of 5%(1 hit per 20 torpedoes)

 

after playing IJN BB line and German CL/CA line,

I found that BB cannot evade torpedo if they don't turn before they're seen

but usually there are some CAs/DDs around the BB

 

after all, DD are still having the lowest average damage

so don't depend too much on the torpedo,

make use of your guns and concealment to benefits your team

 

Thankyou that exlpains some other questions i had about the tiers and torp advancement that i had .. BUT JPN are really restricted by arty range so far i am at teir 7 that may change a little as i progress but its normally not wise to open up with those unless there is support with you.Russian are brilliant in this area but sad in torp range but you do adjust to how that particular ship needs to be used..cheers ps Mabey i have been just crap over the last 2 weeks lol who knows.. thanks

 

Edited by wookielord

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Agree good players are just that good but i might get to try say 10 attack runs and they just sail on bye sigh lol mabey if the captain skill for extra speed loss of range could be raised to 10 to 12 knots to help, plus make up for the 2 k loss of range. 5 knots its just not worth the loss of range..I am a DDs specialist i have all Russian navy and am at tier 7 JPN so like to think i am atlleast competative and helpful to my side most games ..Cheers

 

They already nerfed BB rudder shift time and the reduced torpedo acquisition range. Now you want them to nerf BB speed to have the skill vigilance too? Why don't you just ask them to put BBs out there as floating stationary targets so torpedo spammers can hit better.

 

Simple geometry is involved in using torpedoes. Situation awareness is paramount to using them too. Torpedoes are spotted by DDs that are between the firing ship and the rest of that DD's team. A DD that wasn't spotted by the firing ship. Likewise, planes (spotter, fighters, TBs and DBs) spot the torpedoes too as well as CAs who are close by but not in the firing arc of said weapons. Knowing where, when, and how to deploy torpedoes requires a good awareness of what's going on around the firing ship. It stands to reason if you fire torpedoes at range and any of the aforementioned things are present, those torpedoes will be spotted. This doesn't take into account that the Target Acquisition module and Vigilance combined help increase torpedo spotting too.

 

Likewise, as already mentioned, good ship commanders will not sail in straight lines at a constant speed. They cannot afford to do it. They will evade them because they can anticipate torpedoes, especially if a DD or CA is within its firing range and spotted. That's why it is best to ambush ships by using the environment to mask the firing ship and shield torpedoes from being spotted.

 

The answer is not to beg WG to nerf BBs more to increase torpedo hit counts. They did it and still torpedoes miss. The answer is to learn better ways to deploy torpedoes through skill, experience, and practice. Not nerfing. Nerfing something to make something more likely to hit is a crutch and safety net for most who rely on spamming torpedoes do not have the skill required to actually predict what another ship is doing based on observing said target. 

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They already nerfed BB rudder shift time and the reduced torpedo acquisition range. Now you want them to nerf BB speed to have the skill vigilance too? Why don't you just ask them to put BBs out there as floating stationary targets so torpedo spammers can hit better.

 

Simple geometry is involved in using torpedoes. Situation awareness is paramount to using them too. Torpedoes are spotted by DDs that are between the firing ship and the rest of that DD's team. A DD that wasn't spotted by the firing ship. Likewise, planes (spotter, fighters, TBs and DBs) spot the torpedoes too as well as CAs who are close by but not in the firing arc of said weapons. Knowing where, when, and how to deploy torpedoes requires a good awareness of what's going on around the firing ship. It stands to reason if you fire torpedoes at range and any of the aforementioned things are present, those torpedoes will be spotted. This doesn't take into account that the Target Acquisition module and Vigilance combined help increase torpedo spotting too.

 

Likewise, as already mentioned, good ship commanders will not sail in straight lines at a constant speed. They cannot afford to do it. They will evade them because they can anticipate torpedoes, especially if a DD or CA is within its firing range and spotted. That's why it is best to ambush ships by using the environment to mask the firing ship and shield torpedoes from being spotted.

 

The answer is not to beg WG to nerf BBs more to increase torpedo hit counts. They did it and still torpedoes miss. The answer is to learn better ways to deploy torpedoes through skill, experience, and practice. Not nerfing. Nerfing something to make something more likely to hit is a crutch and safety net for most who rely on spamming torpedoes do not have the skill required to actually predict what another ship is doing based on observing said target. 

 

All good points and in some i do agree to a degree, but do you still think that a strike at say 5 to 6 klm away from the target should have a better to even chance of getting 1 mabey 2 torps to hit especially if you fire at were they are going to be.. plus another salvo at where they may turn or try to slow down and if you have another salvo somewhere in between .This is really the 1st time i have thought that something has changed as my effectiveness has gone south suddenly lol.. BB have massive soak ability to damage and rain hell from the sky lol scary enough as it is as a DD player mostly. ps i do own the Tirpitz,  Imperator, Krishnarr,  and others i dont find them lacking ecept in salvo spread, but thats mostly due to extreme range.. but cheers and thankyou..PPs its mostly crusers that out turn or avoid my attacks mostly and i think its a detection thing thats seem to have changed???? least thats what it seem to be to me ...

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Think Vigilance has become more desirable for Cruisers and BB's after its buff and the changes to AA, seen a couple of captain perk guides recommend it over Superintendent.

 

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All good points and in some i do agree to a degree, but do you still think that a strike at say 5 to 6 klm away from the target should have a better to even chance of getting 1 mabey 2 torps to hit especially if you fire at were they are going to be.. plus another salvo at where they may turn or try to slow down and if you have another salvo somewhere in between .This is really the 1st time i have thought that something has changed as my effectiveness has gone south suddenly lol.. BB have massive soak ability to damage and rain hell from the sky lol scary enough as it is as a DD player mostly. ps i do own the Tirpitz,  Imperator, Krishnarr,  and others i dont find them lacking ecept in salvo spread, but thats mostly due to extreme range.. but cheers and thankyou..PPs its mostly crusers that out turn or avoid my attacks mostly and i think its a detection thing thats seem to have changed???? least thats what it seem to be to me ...

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're having problems hitting a target that close with torpedoes you need to rethink your tactics. If said target is starting to turn away or towards you fire your torpedoes either ahead of the predicted track or behind it. Most importantly do not fire in wide spread, especially at close range or you'll miss for sure if they are maneuvering. You have to watch what your target is doing very closely before you fire. Should they be broadside to you and you see them slowing down, fire behind the predicted path and one half and half should they slow down as a feint. It takes practice. Heck, I still have issues myself, but it isn't the game or the mechanics, its my ability. If you want some really good pointers in proper DD/torpedo deployment, go on YouTube and search for Flamu, Noster, Aerroon, or iChase just to mention a few. I believe Aerroon has a very good video on DD basics and proper torpedo usage. I know Noster does.

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Alpha Tester
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Also with so many planes in battles these days an enemy team that has planes between you and a target will light up your torps for them, so they have early warning, I think?!.

If not, they should be, and spotter planes should be able to spot torps in the water too.

 

Aside from the captains skill to spot torps there is also target acquisition which increases torp spotting range by 20%, I read a while ago that this mod and the captains skill DO NOT STACK, but I'm not sure.

Perhaps a moderator could elaborate?.

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Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're having problems hitting a target that close with torpedoes you need to rethink your tactics. If said target is starting to turn away or towards you fire your torpedoes either ahead of the predicted track or behind it. Most importantly do not fire in wide spread, especially at close range or you'll miss for sure if they are maneuvering. You have to watch what your target is doing very closely before you fire. Should they be broadside to you and you see them slowing down, fire behind the predicted path and one half and half should they slow down as a feint. It takes practice. Heck, I still have issues myself, but it isn't the game or the mechanics, its my ability. If you want some really good pointers in proper DD/torpedo deployment, go on YouTube and search for Flamu, Noster, Aerroon, or iChase just to mention a few. I believe Aerroon has a very good video on DD basics and proper torpedo usage. I know Noster does.

 

All good no offence taken, But i still feel that its not quite right , I do add lead ect when doing an attack it just amaze me now at how easy it seems to be for large ships to avoid them now .Will look at those suggested players  y tube vids too after all ya can allways learn more and better ya skills cheers...

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All good no offence taken, But i still feel that its not quite right , I do add lead ect when doing an attack it just amaze me now at how easy it seems to be for large ships to avoid them now .Will look at those suggested players  y tube vids too after all ya can allways learn more and better ya skills cheers...

 

At the ranges you've said, the large ships are able to do a large variety of moves with or without knowledge of your torps. I'm going to guess that it's either you targeted good players or unluckily, the target had planned out a maneuver already and just so happened to carry it out after you dropped your torps. Just sayin' that 5-6 km provide a really good time frame for evasion and dropping at that distance doesn't necessarily guarantee a hit. Either way, it ain't easy for both sides :)

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There is a captain skill that increases torpedo detection range by 20%. Alot of Battleships run this skill but its not needed for the seasoned player. Good players will know how to avoid torpedoes or at least mitigate most damage, anyway.

 

25%

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Greetings

 

Poor Destroyer players, they want us Battleships players to be nerfed EVEN MORE, or their skills buffed AGAIN!?!?!?!

 

They already sink me more than enough UNFAIRLY, with their CHEAT reload time which looks faster than a cruiser, multiple torpedo tubes, UNLIMITED TORPDOES, UNFAIR almost point blank range INVISIBILITY EVEN WITHOUT SMOKE, their insane speed.....  AND THEY WANT MORE???????????

 

Put them all in a bucket, ship them off to a new game called World Of Destroyers, then they can torpedo themselves... we Battleship & early Cruiser players have had enough of them, nowadays, instead of having a nice 1 on 1 battle with other ships of our type, we MUST hunt out ALL of the DDs first, for fear of torpedoes, usually wasting half a game, only to end up getting it in the guts anyway, because our  secondaries have even been nerfed with the captain skills stuffed.... & im talking about 5 or 6 DDs per game now....  & even though people WILL argue with me here, i have fought DDs that ARE INVISIBLE AT 1.2 KLM & BELOW!!!!

 

Its time to NERF the DDs, it should be fun going out in a older ship, & have a little bit of a go at other ships, not getting killed straight away by DDs who just want easy kills because they know we cant avoid them....

 

they are the ships that deserve a NERF NOW!!! NERF THE DESTROYERS!!!

 

& no, i do NOT own any DDs, nor do i intend to, just in case people say "oh, i should have a DD then i will know what they are on about"

Stuff the destoyers

I like playing ships WITH SKILL, NOT SPAM!!!!

 

Ordrazz

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Greetings

 

Poor Destroyer players, they want us Battleships players to be nerfed EVEN MORE, or their skills buffed AGAIN!?!?!?!

 

They already sink me more than enough UNFAIRLY, with their CHEAT reload time which looks faster than a cruiser, multiple torpedo tubes, UNLIMITED TORPDOES, UNFAIR almost point blank range INVISIBILITY EVEN WITHOUT SMOKE, their insane speed.....  AND THEY WANT MORE???????????

 

Put them all in a bucket, ship them off to a new game called World Of Destroyers, then they can torpedo themselves... we Battleship & early Cruiser players have had enough of them, nowadays, instead of having a nice 1 on 1 battle with other ships of our type, we MUST hunt out ALL of the DDs first, for fear of torpedoes, usually wasting half a game, only to end up getting it in the guts anyway, because our  secondaries have even been nerfed with the captain skills stuffed.... & im talking about 5 or 6 DDs per game now....  & even though people WILL argue with me here, i have fought DDs that ARE INVISIBLE AT 1.2 KLM & BELOW!!!!

 

Its time to NERF the DDs, it should be fun going out in a older ship, & have a little bit of a go at other ships, not getting killed straight away by DDs who just want easy kills because they know we cant avoid them....

 

they are the ships that deserve a NERF NOW!!! NERF THE DESTROYERS!!!

 

& no, i do NOT own any DDs, nor do i intend to, just in case people say "oh, i should have a DD then i will know what they are on about"

Stuff the destoyers

I like playing ships WITH SKILL, NOT SPAM!!!!

 

Ordrazz

 

Chill out, dude.

 

People are going to argue with you because

1. Secondaries have not been nerfed, conversely, they only received a buff in the form of the 5-point captain skill.

2. 1.2km is closer than the absolute spotting range of an enemy ship. If you're still not seeing it at that range, that sounds like a hardware issue. And more importantly, why are you even letting a destroyer get into 1km range?!

 

Funnily enough, the older cruisers and battleships also tend to have a much better evasive capability, coupled with two out of three nations' DDs still not capable of stealthfire. If you're getting killed straightaway with torpedoes, well...

 

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Alpha Tester
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The only way to hit with torp with IJN DD at mid tier is to spam (hell, i do it too)

The torp range is too short and slow

While the smoke is too unreliable to used while mobile

Low AA value, enemy recon aircraft could spot you for quite long

Poor Artilery, no chance against other nation DD

Speed boost does not affect too much to manuveurbility

Very Fragile, no kidding, some lucky BB could severely damage you with HE

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Greetings

 

Poor Destroyer players, they want us Battleships players to be nerfed EVEN MORE, or their skills buffed AGAIN!?!?!?!

 

They already sink me more than enough UNFAIRLY, with their CHEAT reload time which looks faster than a cruiser, multiple torpedo tubes, UNLIMITED TORPDOES, UNFAIR almost point blank range INVISIBILITY EVEN WITHOUT SMOKE, their insane speed.....  AND THEY WANT MORE???????????

 

Put them all in a bucket, ship them off to a new game called World Of Destroyers, then they can torpedo themselves... we Battleship & early Cruiser players have had enough of them, nowadays, instead of having a nice 1 on 1 battle with other ships of our type, we MUST hunt out ALL of the DDs first, for fear of torpedoes, usually wasting half a game, only to end up getting it in the guts anyway, because our  secondaries have even been nerfed with the captain skills stuffed.... & im talking about 5 or 6 DDs per game now....  & even though people WILL argue with me here, i have fought DDs that ARE INVISIBLE AT 1.2 KLM & BELOW!!!!

 

Its time to NERF the DDs, it should be fun going out in a older ship, & have a little bit of a go at other ships, not getting killed straight away by DDs who just want easy kills because they know we cant avoid them....

 

they are the ships that deserve a NERF NOW!!! NERF THE DESTROYERS!!!

 

& no, i do NOT own any DDs, nor do i intend to, just in case people say "oh, i should have a DD then i will know what they are on about"

Stuff the destoyers

I like playing ships WITH SKILL, NOT SPAM!!!!

 

Ordrazz

 

well that was a bit over the top ...lol But dude there is skill at all classes not just BB, and i have BB also, and one salvo from a BB with smash any DD in one go. BB arnt lackin except mabey in shell spread..But cheers for ya opinion. So far all have been good points both sides...PS I have never had a DD at 1.2 and i dont think this can happen. best is around 5.0 as far as i know??
Edited by wookielord

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[ATLAS]
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Catapult fighter last for 6 minutes and will circle around the ship, effectively detecting torpedoes from 4 km away if they passed above it, believe it or not this is mostly the reason why your torpedoes missed and not Vigilance. Which is why torpedoes at 13-10 minutes remaining usually hits while first torpedoes wave usually missed.

 

Obviously if you have no Catapult fighter or bring s(lol)potter plane instead, you can expect to get hit by surprise torpedoes everytime

Edited by Vio_Strygun

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Catapult fighter last for 6 minutes and will circle around the ship, effectively detecting torpedoes from 4 km away if they passed above it, believe it or not this is mostly the reason why your torpedoes missed and not Vigilance. Which is why torpedoes at 13-10 minutes remaining usually hits while first torpedoes wave usually missed.

 

Obviously if you has no Catapult fighter or bring s(lol)potter plane instead, you can expect to get hit by surprise torpedoes everytime

 

Wow if you were to ask a pilot they would say its is extremely hard to see a line of torps in the ocean,,300mph plus waves and smoke flack it was only ever luck ..Not sure that should be happening, mabey a spotter but bomb and torp flights had more to worry about, think this is over detection?? cheers

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Greetings

 

Poor Destroyer players, they want us Battleships players to be nerfed EVEN MORE, or their skills buffed AGAIN!?!?!?!

 

They already sink me more than enough UNFAIRLY, with their CHEAT reload time which looks faster than a cruiser, multiple torpedo tubes, UNLIMITED TORPDOES, UNFAIR almost point blank range INVISIBILITY EVEN WITHOUT SMOKE, their insane speed.....  AND THEY WANT MORE???????????

 

Put them all in a bucket, ship them off to a new game called World Of Destroyers, then they can torpedo themselves... we Battleship & early Cruiser players have had enough of them, nowadays, instead of having a nice 1 on 1 battle with other ships of our type, we MUST hunt out ALL of the DDs first, for fear of torpedoes, usually wasting half a game, only to end up getting it in the guts anyway, because our  secondaries have even been nerfed with the captain skills stuffed.... & im talking about 5 or 6 DDs per game now....  & even though people WILL argue with me here, i have fought DDs that ARE INVISIBLE AT 1.2 KLM & BELOW!!!!

 

Its time to NERF the DDs, it should be fun going out in a older ship, & have a little bit of a go at other ships, not getting killed straight away by DDs who just want easy kills because they know we cant avoid them....

 

they are the ships that deserve a NERF NOW!!! NERF THE DESTROYERS!!!

 

& no, i do NOT own any DDs, nor do i intend to, just in case people say "oh, i should have a DD then i will know what they are on about"

Stuff the destoyers

I like playing ships WITH SKILL, NOT SPAM!!!!

 

Ordrazz

 

oh my god this is just hilarious 

 

  so first you said that " CHEAT reload time which looks faster than a cruiser"   well i dont know which DD you are playing mate because i sure would like to get my had on one of those. FYI, the average reload time on any mid tier CA is around 13-15 seconds, and speaking from experience, NO DD has a reload time like that, no DD above T6(the ones with long range torps) have a minimal reload time of less then 1 minuets, so i dont see where this is coming from at all.

 

  then you said that"we MUST hunt out ALL of the DDs first, for fear of torpedoes, usually wasting half a game" hey, if you really did waste half the game hunting for DDs, they you are probably playing your ship class wrong, especially when i get the impression that you go DD hunting in BBs according to your stats. Unless your team's DDs, CAs, and CVs are fools who got them selves killed during the first 5 minutes of the match, there's no way that any CAs or even BBs should be hunting DDs, it's your team's DD's job to take out the other team's DDs and generally they do it very well, pretty much thinning down each other's numbers to the point that no one need to really be concerned about the occasional wave of torps

 

  after that was", i have fought DDs that ARE INVISIBLE AT 1.2 KLM & BELOW!!!!, this one really got me ROTFL, unless the said DD charged out from behind a mountain, there's no way that any DD can get into 1.2km of ANY ship without getting spotted. The umikaze, the ship with lowest detection range has 5.9km detection range, and even with CE, it still have no chance of getting into any ship's 1.2km without getting spotted.

 

  finally "I like playing ships WITH SKILL, NOT SPAM!!!!"  now correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt HE spamming the ONLY way apart from torping that a CA can get any real damage on a BB? if you dont like spam at all, dont play CA either, because you are being a hypocrite by calling for DDs to be nerfed and not CA as well, in real life, DDs were meant to be the expandable ships that carry out fast and hard hitting torp runs on enemy capital ships, so unless there's a better way of balancing ship classes comes along, you are just going to live with spam and create spam yourself. 

 

i have played more then 4300 matches, 1500 on CAs and DDs, and 1000 on BBs from low to high tiers, and while a DD in the hands of a good player can be devastating,  the same can be said for experienced captains piloting BBs,CVs and CAs. DDs in high tiers have it hard enough as it is, most matches DD players can only cap one point and get one or two torp hit before getting sunk or doing basically nothing but watching players on the other team dodge wave after wave of torps (torps on high tier DDs cost a crap load of credits). 

 

Further more, as most of us know from the STs that we have met playing SV CAs in the past weeks, SV CAs carry radar, lighting up ALL ships(not sure about torps) in a 10km radius, so if anything, the least that WG can do is to either keep DD stats the same as now or give them a little buff  

 

i apologize if i had hurt any feelings or was being rude, but i really needed to get this off my chest

Edited by drakon233

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Super Tester
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A mate shared this in the community I joined, it regards to reaction time for players to dodge the torpedoes or are so dead.

Yeah, JP torps still plenty of time but best to avoid is not to go straight path while cruising.

source: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Torpedoes_%28WoWS%29

 

INCOMING TORPS!!! Too late... *light a smoke*

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[ATLAS]
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A mate shared this in the community I joined, it regards to reaction time for players to dodge the torpedoes or are so dead.

Yeah, JP torps still plenty of time but best to avoid is not to go straight path while cruising.

source: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Torpedoes_%28WoWS%29

INCOMING TORPS!!! Too late... *light a smoke*

 

I'm sorry but that's outdated data before the 0.5.2

this one is more recent although I'm not sure if there's any change made in 0.5.3

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?showtopic=65360

 

 

Wow if you were to ask a pilot they would say its is extremely hard to see a line of torps in the ocean,,300mph plus waves and smoke flack it was only ever luck ..Not sure that should be happening, mabey a spotter but bomb and torp flights had more to worry about, think this is over detection?? cheers

 

not sure if over detection but yeah I do find the idea of airplane were able to spot torpedoes are pretty silly but all for balance I guess

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not sure if over detection but yeah I do find the idea of airplane were able to spot torpedoes are pretty silly but all for balance I guess

 

Well, as a former submarine torpedoman, I can tell you that torpedoes running just below the surface 3 to 8 feet are easily seen from above because of their cavitation, exhaust (yes torpedoes that use fuel based engines have an exhaust in the form of gaseous bubbles exhausting out the tail of the weapon), and wake they leave behind. This is why a smart boat skipper will fire his weapons have them run deep (100') to enable and begin its passive search and order it up closer to the surface to detect the target. We can do that with torpedoes today because they are still connected to the firing boat via a wire that allows us to communicate. However, for ship fired torpedoes they don't have that luxury. They fire and forget them after they've input the firing solution and adjusted the presets. Unlike the torpedoes the represent those used in the time period our ships represent, today's weapons are freaking intelligent and will find the target if the fire control operator and firing party are worth anything. But I digress, these weapons are easily spotted as I stated. They cannot be masked or hidden because of that.

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