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Valhalla_Shank

Completely rigged, WR is completely out of our control.

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Not realy. People think they are the stable constant. The only factor that Fixed and never change.

but its realy not

You can play well on 1 game and carry it hard, but you can also only perform like half of your potential on the next game or just casualy feed enemy team

maybe you are distracted, hungry, tired, sleepy, noisy outside, girlfriend call, natures call or other reason

and thats all independent of what your teammates and opponent do. and the same thing applied to every single teammates and opponent too

after all If you play hours of game, your body and mental will took toll without you noticed, and you will need to take break from time to time 

 

I dont doubt there is a hidden pool in every matchmaking in online games.

DOTA2 have one, where Toxic player get matched and paired with another equaly toxic player - which accesible via console

 

but still, people dont perform 100% every single time.

nor your teammates or enemies.

 

 

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I'm actually gonna post some screenshot for these WG apologists, take not these are just few screenshot and I have experienced this tonnes of times and so are other players. Played 15 or so games yesterday and boy they are OK and I had 80%+ winrate and mostly in mid tier.

 

First game today was a worhtless win, worthless enemy no effort. Your typical MM "winning you back" event. How I feel for those decent players in the other team

 nLcgQp4.jpg

2nd game is when MM decided I've been getting too much winrate and started to turn the world upside down. It's all hell from here.

 

 ORXpYMj.jpg

of course, nobody died from the enemy team, and game lasted less than 10 min

 

There is a game after this in my shokaku and I was placed in a tier 10 CV match with a teammate Midway, and probably the worst midway captain i ever seen I probably would get better result if I was with an AI Midway(HE NEVER MANAGED TO ATTACK ANY SHIP, 0 DAMAGE 0 PLANE KILL HIS BOMBS ARE ALL MISS). and our enemy midway is a good CV player as I've played with him a lot of times(wintype_zero is his name i think) and as a shokaku can't do anything about a 212 midway. Then our shimakaze went 1v1 with a farragut and died 4 minutes into the game.

My screenshots are full of swearing so I won't post it. I was probably reported too.

 

4 more games, 4 even more terrible games after this and I was so frustrated I forgot to screenshot. I was just so frustrated that every game I just think about the next game and unsurprisingly MM decides to give another losing team to me.

 

You think this is possible through a true random MM? This much occurrence of this "winning team" and "losing team"? How so much terrible players are assembled together versus a very very decent enemy team and vice versa?

 

 

 

Edited by Deicide

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Super Tester
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2ccp1xw.jpg

 

If you ever post that link on any forums thats not ASIA, it'll get flamed and negrepped (if there was any) because the horse is as beaten as OMG WHERE SUBS?

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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2ccp1xw.jpg

 

If you ever post that link on any forums thats not ASIA, it'll get flamed and negrepped (if there was any) because the horse is as beaten as OMG WHERE SUBS?

 

why is it a conspiracy? why would a player be neg repped? why is the sky blue (ok, bit off topic)

 

WG, or any other company, will not tell you how the mechanics of MM work, you may get a broad outline, may be told that they are doing something about it etc, but you will never be told the full story of how it works (and yes, I already know about the patent for MM).

 

Most MM problems I have seen are from a. Not enough players in the upper tiers, but players still expecting MM to work correctly; b. mismatched Divisions dragging lower tier ships into higher tier matches and c. MM failure.

so point A. - Not enough players in the top tiers, in the correct ships, for MM to form 2 opposing teams correctly. I would expect that as we approach Clan Wars in the future, this will remedy itself by the fact that more players will be trying to get to tier 10 and Clan Wars ships. Only time will tell.

 

B. One that we all see, and get annoyed with, but something that will probably not be fixed - Mismatched tier divisions. Nothing like stuffing up MM by having a Div of tier 4 and tier 8 ships together (example only). MM will never dropped the tier 8 down to a tier 4 match, so the tier 4 gets dragged up, and for MM to work, another tier 4 (or similar weighted ship) is drawn onto the other side as well, or the opposing side looses a ship in the line up to compensate.

 

C. MM Failure - yes it can, and has failed in the team setups, normally very early morning just after server restart, although, it has been noted to fail on or near peak period as well. Server/Software fault that players have no control over, and will probably fixed if/when enough reports have been sent in with the evidence to back up the claim. 

 

Both of Decides Screenshots shows an imbalance between the opposing forces, although the weight of the teams are in fact within 5% of each other.

 

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There is something to it, after all like the guy said they have patents on this stuff, and have fought other companies in court over said patents. You don't patent stuff that isn't valuable and that you're not using. But again I think the MM manipulation is an attempt to make the lives of low WR/damage players easier, but in doing so is unbalancing the MM for everyone else, probably unintentionally. I'd say it's very unlikely they are trying to hold people back as causing so many losses and unpleasant matches will ultimately lose them players they had hoped would stay. WG definitely want as many players as possible (whether they pay or not) so it's counter intuitive that this is by design.

 

I've reached a WR ceiling lately cause I keep getting bottom tier games in every ship I ever take out. Usually by the maximum the ship allows, and often the other side gets more top tier BBs or DDs. I didn't grab screen shots, but I can if you like cause I'm sure it will happen again. It's worse in some classes of ships than others, basically as some deal with that situation better, and some are good enough you can do significant damage anyway.

 

I've had so much of it I'd like to see a report bad MM button somewhere so we can give feed back. It should only be available in the loading screen so people can't spam it when they get sour grapes over losing. Also that way they can record stats about the population and MM available at the time of complaint to help them fine tune the algorithm.

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Then  what would you call it when you get the same position on a map and team  consecutively for weeks?

 

Whenever I get the big race map and I am playing a CA of any nation or tier that can get that map I am always in the most north eastern position for that team. That has been happening to me for weeks and it cant be due to chance because if it was random it would be less likely than all the particles in a table moving in the same direction spontaneously over the age of the universe. or getting a double beta decay that doesn't produce neutrinos thats the rarest event in the universe.

 

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Beta Tester
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At the end of the day, we all know about it and there's nothing we can really do about it. This is not only in WoWS but in other games as well so just accept or you can wait 2 decades or so until their "patent" opens.

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Super Tester
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At the end of the day, we all know about it and there's nothing we can really do about it. This is not only in WoWS but in other games as well so just accept or you can wait 2 decades or so until their "patent" opens.

 

In other words, shut yer traps/whinning and play the game. Dont like it? just dont play it and look for others, its THAT simple. :trollface:

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"Whenever I lose its MM fault.

Whenever I win its because I carried." - The General Pubbie

 

+1, that summarization is ACCURATE

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IDK about others, but i'm totally worn. I usually analyze my play to see if I had any mistakes before I judge my team, but MM been real joke today. real joke. 14th straight fking lose today. it's true it seems, that when you get 5 straight defeat i should have stopped. it's not normal, it's all one sided losing game. doing 150k + damage does nothing. there seems to be one or two other teammates with the same complaints with me on how stupid the team is on another level, funny and strange(not).

 

General pubbies might use this as their general purpose reason for sucking, but you know how I play and I'm far from your average pubbie. This issue is completely legit and not even a conspiracy. Those stats don't lie.

 

 

Edited by Deicide

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Super Tester
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What stats?

As he mentions that "seemed to confirm that the MM has an arbitrary win 'limit' set in % that seems to be defined by tier or type of tank.  My win rate turned out to be 55.10%" by that logic NOBODY should have a win rate of that nominal number or higher.

Yet if we take his " observational analysis based upon gameplay and experience and observing the statistics" to be true, then my win rate of 66% and those 70%s are statistically impossible.

 

Bad players will never say its their fault and its always the fault of someone/something else on a consistent basis.

A good player will improve himself and not go around being all "I CANT WIN GAME IS RIGGED AGAINST ME I WONT PLAY VIDYA GAEM ANYMORE I GO CRI NAO WG HATE ME I NO SPEND MONEY NO MORE"

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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Really? So you're saying that his statistical data is wrong, faked, or open to interpretation? Do you believe that WG would never do something as underhanded to manipulate MM to keep people where they are or force them into situations where they are on teams full of 'red' players after going on a 20 game win streak? Do you believe that this never happens and that RNG is the only way to equalize player skill that there's no other mechanic available to do so? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this instead of calling people conspiracy theorist nut-jobs as you did with your meme.

 

"So you're saying that his statistical data is wrong, faked, or open to interpretation?"

This post (like many others before it) is basing it's "statistical data" off of a very VERY small amount of battles in comparison to the amount of battles that are being played on the whole server, so don't blame me and others when we believe that it is left open for interpretation.

 

"Do you believe that WG would never do something as underhanded to manipulate MM to keep people where they are or force them into situations where they are on teams full of 'red' players after going on a 20 game win streak?"

TWENTY GAME WINNING STREAK!?! wow, well done for that player, but what goes up must come down, yin and yang, there must be a balance. There is a reason why the server average W/R is right around 50% (slightly off due to draws) and this is because the game has to have a balance. Now this doesn't mean that everyone MUST have a 50% nor will the game forcefully try to drag any one player back down to a lower / equal W/R. What he (with many other players) is confusing rigged match making with is called 'COMPETITION', and if he can not keep his overall performance level above average competition then his battle results will reflect and show where he truly sits in the balance of players on this server.

 

So do I believe WG rigs MM to balance players W/Rs, no I don't. I believe that the players performance balances their own W/Rs for them, WG doesn't need to do anything when the player population balances itself.

 

Do you believe that this never happens and that RNG is the only way to equalize player skill that there's no other mechanic available to do so?

I more or less are ready answered this one, but for clarity, no I don't believe WG balances their matches by rigging them. If this was in place then how come there are play that have above average W/Rs like 60% and above, why are they not getting dragged back down by this "manipulate MM"? Maybe it's because they preform better on average and thus it shows. Which leads me to this next quote...

 

"Whenever I lose its MM fault.

Whenever I win its because I carried." - The General Pubbie

^

This here hits the nail on the head. Maybe, just maybe the reason why this player is having such a hard time increasing his W/R is because, well, maybe he's just a 55% over all player, is that to hard to believe that he can't get more than 55%, not like that's bad.

 

So now that I have express my "thoughts" on this subject, I will now continue "calling people conspiracy theorist nut-jobs" as I did with my meme earlier.

 

ufbvxj9nap7hyfmaznte.gif

 

By the way, same as Deathskyz, how am I able to have a 60% W/R on WoTs if there is a balancing system in place, surely we couldn't elude this ever watching system this long could we?

Edited by Ryzil

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"So you're saying that his statistical data is wrong, faked, or open to interpretation?"

This post (like many others before it) is basing it's "statistical data" off of a very VERY small amount of battles in comparison to the amount of battles that are being played on the whole server, so don't blame me and others when we believe that it is left open for interpretation.

 

"Do you believe that WG would never do something as underhanded to manipulate MM to keep people where they are or force them into situations where they are on teams full of 'red' players after going on a 20 game win streak?"

TWENTY GAME WINNING STREAK!?! wow, well done for that player, but what goes up must come down, yin and yang, there must be a balance. There is a reason why the server average W/R is right around 50% (slightly off due to draws) and this is because the game has to have a balance. Now this doesn't mean that everyone MUST have a 50% nor will the game forcefully try to drag any one player back down to a lower / equal W/R. What he (with many other players) is confusing rigged match making with is called 'COMPETITION', and if he can not keep his overall performance level above average competition then his battle results will reflect and show where he truly sits in the balance of players on this server.

 

So do I believe WG rigs MM to balance players W/Rs, no I don't. I believe that the players performance balances their own W/Rs for them, WG doesn't need to do anything when the player population balances itself.

 

Do you believe that this never happens and that RNG is the only way to equalize player skill that there's no other mechanic available to do so?

I more or less are ready answered this one, but for clarity, no I don't believe WG balances their matches by rigging them. If this was in place then how come there are play that have above average W/Rs like 60% and above, why are they not getting dragged back down by this "manipulate MM"? Maybe it's because they preform better on average and thus it shows. Which leads me to this next quote...

 

^

This here hits the nail on the head. Maybe, just maybe the reason why this player is having such a hard time increasing his W/R is because, well, maybe he's just a 55% over all player, is that to hard to believe that he can't get more than 55%, not like that's bad.

 

So now that I have express my "thoughts" on this subject, I will now continue "calling people conspiracy theorist nut-jobs" as I did with my meme earlier.

 

 

 

By the way, same as Deathskyz, how am I able to have a 60% W/R on WoTs if there is a balancing system in place, surely we couldn't elude this ever watching system this long could we?

 

#1: Sampling nearly 10,000 battles is a small sampling? Yeah no, that's not a small sample that's a rather large sampling to give solid results looking for a trend analysis. You might want to look at how marketing actually does their own sampling for an example, or opinion surveys. However, I bet if he had access to 1,000 players from across the spectrum, his data would reflect pretty much what he has now.

 

#2: Here's an employee stating that they do indeed manipulate MM to 'give a player a challenge:'

 As for the patent regarding the matchmaker, this does state that:
“According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range.”

This does not mean that the matchmaker “Rigs” games, it just means that the better a player is doing, the more of a challenge they are presented with and ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team.

 

So they do have MM set up to 'make the game more challenging.' If they have it set up for that, then what else can they set it up for? (Note: This is a question not an accusation.)

 

#3 RNG is not an skill equalizer. It nullifies skills. RNG in a game like this where a major mechanic (dispersion) cause more problems than it is worth, especially for BB players. RNG is a lazy development tool. Why? Because developers, especially in this game, have no clue how to counter a player's skill effectively. If they used their metrics and analyze every aspect of a player's game results they could use MM as they do above by implementing a Battle Rating (Personal Rating WoT) and match them to similar players. This BR should take into count WR%, K/D%, number of battles, average damage/battle, average XP/battle, hit ratio %, survival %, total number of battles, total damage, and warship/planes destroyed. All of this information is tracked and a BR would show, just like WoT, the level of a player. But they don't. However, doing so would be a true measure of challenging a player, especially someone like you, Deathskyz, and others. However, in the current MM set up they don't and you find yourself facing more tomatoes than you do unicrums in PuG matches. MM is fundamentally flawed in this respect especially when it uses the old +/-2 tiered meta. But that's another discussion.

 

#4 There is more enough proof to put blame on team mates when they do some of these most idiotic things in a game. I'm sure you've seen that for your self. In this game, unlike WoT, 1 person carrying the team is not impossible, but damn near is. Seeing a team all going to one side of the map and completely ignoring the other side save for a few (4 or less) or players YOLOing, or chasing DDs in a BB when someone needs help against another BB, or wanting to kill the CV instead of capping because they want to have a higher kill ratio, all of above causes the team to lose. Yeah, that's maddening and I'll blame those fools for not doing what is necessary to win. This is a team oriented game. WR% is predicated on how the TEAM functions. All these individual stats only mean how you as a player function, it does not represent team play. The current meta of this game does not promote team play where it counts, PuGs. This is an on going problem for WG and why you find so many players bashing others because they are 'Green/Blue/Purple' players.

 

I know how many players with 60% WR maintain their level, they seal club. This is in no way is an indictment of you or accusation. I only need to look at a player's record to see what tier level(s) where a majority of the battles are fought. We have similar stats. However, because my WR is at 50.77 I'm considered a sub-par player and because I don't have 1 to 2,000 battles under my belt. This is why there is so much problem within WG's communities regarding players. Again, that's another discussion.

 

Thank you for your response.

Edited by RebelliousYankee

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The tin foil is strong in this thread.

 

When you start desperately looking for ways that the game is making you lose, instead of working out how to better your own play to improve your chances of winning, then you are never going to improve as a player.  Even when you are on a team full of poor players you can play your team to victory, and when your team loses, their are always different tactics or plays that you could have used to win the game.

 

The question is, are you capable of the self-analysis required to recognise how you could have played better to improve your team's chances are of victory?  The first step is to accept responsibility for your loss, and not try to shift the blame onto the rest of your team or the matchmaker or whatever other thing you think made you lose.

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The tin foil is strong in this thread.

 

When you start desperately looking for ways that the game is making you lose, instead of working out how to better your own play to improve your chances of winning, then you are never going to improve as a player.  Even when you are on a team full of poor players you can play your team to victory, and when your team loses, their are always different tactics or plays that you could have used to win the game.

 

The question is, are you capable of the self-analysis required to recognise how you could have played better to improve your team's chances are of victory?  The first step is to accept responsibility for your loss, and not try to shift the blame onto the rest of your team or the matchmaker or whatever other thing you think made you lose.

 

That only works if:

- You know and can speak thai, korean, japanese, indo, manderin and vietnamese (the infamous language barrier that everyone is tired of, since no one understands what to do, especially those who dont understand english)

-You were placed in a match whereby, communication is unnecessary within the team since each of the members know exactly their role, and how to react according to the circumstances they face (again, 'random battles' means 'random people of different caliber of gameplay')

 

Contrary to the current never-ending rage of teammates, whatever arguments/theories/factors been forwarded (granted, i admit some of them are accurate), its not gonna change the fact that players will be matched with 'random people' of random 'level of gameplay', they dont call random battles for nothing. Precisely the reason why there is a team battle option to counter this utter 'randomness'

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That only works if:

- You know and can speak thai, korean, japanese, indo, manderin and vietnamese (the infamous language barrier that everyone is tired of, since no one understands what to do, especially those who dont understand english)

-You were placed in a match whereby, communication is unnecessary within the team since each of the members know exactly their role, and how to react according to the circumstances they face (again, 'random battles' means 'random people of different caliber of gameplay')

 

You don't need to be able to speak to your team mates to play them to victory (although of course it helps).  Say you're in a DD and you're ahead of half your fleet and around the corner comes a superior force.  Often your team will say to themselves "I'm outta here" and turn and run and then be picked off piecemeal.  Now there is nothing that attracts the average player more than a low health ship, so if you can come in and torp something to low health, and spot and attack their enemy DD's while you're at it, your team will often suddenly find their man-pants and charge on in.  Suddenly you've turned a loss into a win.

 

This is a very specific example, but the game is infinitely flexible, it's all about picking the right play for the right situation, and then executing it successfully.  This isn't easy, but therein lies the challenge.

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The tin foil is strong in this thread.

 

When you start desperately looking for ways that the game is making you lose, instead of working out how to better your own play to improve your chances of winning, then you are never going to improve as a player.  Even when you are on a team full of poor players you can play your team to victory, and when your team loses, their are always different tactics or plays that you could have used to win the game.

 

The question is, are you capable of the self-analysis required to recognise how you could have played better to improve your team's chances are of victory?  The first step is to accept responsibility for your loss, and not try to shift the blame onto the rest of your team or the matchmaker or whatever other thing you think made you lose.

 

Blah blah blah mate, don't worry I'll start turning on my replay and upload videos and tell us how you can "improve your own game" and "make your team win" from a game in a handpicked team of $#@$.

 

Bad players will never say its their fault and its always the fault of someone/something else on a consistent basis.

A good player will improve himself and not go around being all "I CANT WIN GAME IS RIGGED AGAINST ME I WONT PLAY VIDYA GAEM ANYMORE I GO CRI NAO WG HATE ME I NO SPEND MONEY NO MORE"

 

Then I'm both a good and bad player since I do both? I'm really going to start recording replays so we can all watch, analyze and advice how to improve my performance and win in an unwinnable team.

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I still can't believe people crap posting tin foil hats here. They don't patent something as simple as a random MM algorithm that weighs ships accdg to role and tier, they obviously put some special formula in that MM to control the player base. This special recipe is very easy programming-wise of course the exact formulation is unknown. High WR people probably spent a bulk of their games in a division with good players, and I suspect divisions can disrupt this formulation by the MM aside from the fact that you'll be with very reliable teammates(-2 slots that MM can fill with dumb player). I divisioned less that 30 games at most and my I only probably have a couple of losses.

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I still can't believe people crap posting tin foil hats here. They don't patent something as simple as a random MM algorithm that weighs ships accdg to role and tier, they obviously put some special formula in that MM to control the player base. This special recipe is very easy programming-wise of course the exact formulation is unknown. High WR people probably spent a bulk of their games in a division with good players, and I suspect divisions can disrupt this formulation by the MM aside from the fact that you'll be with very reliable teammates(-2 slots that MM can fill with dumb player). I divisioned less that 30 games at most and my I only probably have a couple of losses.

 

They do it when people have the audacity to question WG's MM mechanic. They do it out of blind faith in all things WG. They do it because they are fanbois. Take your pick.

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Because this patent has been shot down so many times in WoT forums. But hey it's never my fault when I lose. MM is rigged so I'm goanna go quit the game now.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

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Because this patent has been shot down so many times in WoT forums....

 

Yeah and the WoT forums is a bastion of credibility. WoT forums is the worst place in the world to participate in because it is a cesspool, period.

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