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Trojan63

Enough of the DD spam already

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This is coming from an avid DD player.

Currently there are too many DD's per battle and the balance at times is horrendous. I've just finished a match where one team had 6 DD's to the others 3. 

3 Japanese DD's against 2 Japanese, 2 American and 2 Russian does not seem balanced to me, especially in light of this from the patch notes.

 

Distribution of players into teams was slightly improved. Now, after two teams have been formed, the matchmaker will try to distribute players so that teams consist of players with approximately equal ships. For example, if there are two Cleveland cruisers on one team and two Aoba cruisers on another team, the ships will now be distributed evenly if it is technically possible, in order to have one Cleveland cruiser and one Aoba cruiser on each team.

 

The game mechanics can limit the number of CV's so why not DD's? 4 per match maximum seems to be a fair amount. A limit might also result in a better balance.

Also when you have a team that has 2 and 3 more DD's than the other, any match where the goal is to cap 3 zones is a forgone conclusion.

As I said, I am mainly a DD player and sometimes I smile with great expectations when I see the starting line up and balance yet at other times it's a case of well we've lost this one but I'll do my best.

Edited by Trojan63

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Alpha Tester
1,637 posts
7,230 battles

This morning when i was playing, there was hardly any DDs. Only 1 or 2 per team. This went on for quite a few hours.

 In one game i was the only DD in both teams. Majority of ships were BBs, which made my day.  :playing:  .......Pity i wasn't playing tier 4 for wrecking ball.......

 

I guess it's just what's in the queue at the time. 

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Beta Tester
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Actually there are too many carriers. Especially when i was playing Arkansas Beta. And you know how well it went having 2 carriers on each team while you were playing Arkansas Beta... :(

 

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Beta Tester
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Yep now everyone is using DDs, because they know they are so OP and can spam torps in higher tier battles .

WG has  made a mistake by buffing DDs at higher tiers and buffing the cruiser HE as well with extra fire chance because of demo expert commander skill.

The players know that DDs are op now, that's why you are seeing so many of them in games.

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Beta Tester
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Yep now everyone is using DDs, because they know they are so OP and can spam torps in higher tier battles .

WG has  made a mistake by buffing DDs at higher tiers and buffing the cruiser HE as well with extra fire chance because of demo expert commander skill.

The players know that DDs are op now, that's why you are seeing so many of them in games.

 

Yeah... Sure... And why don't you play DD for yourself and see if they are really OP or not?

You don't know how to counter them doesn't mean they are OP. 

 They don't put rudder on a ship to use it as decor.

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Beta Tester
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Yeah... Sure... And why don't you play DD for yourself and see if they are really OP or not?

You don't know how to counter them doesn't mean they are OP. 

 They don't put rudder on a ship to use it as decor.

umm I do play DDs I have a 57% win rate in all my DDs, I also have a 57% win rate in battleships as well so I play both of them a lot and I know how to use a DD and I know how to counter DD as well.

I've just got a kagero only played 2 battles in it and no upgrades and thus no wins. I've also got a Benson with win rate of 63.27% from 49 battles and the Fubuki 58.70% win rate from 92 battles so I have played DDs.

I was going to stop at tier 8 because tier 9-10 are unbalanced but since the new patch I've gone and got a tier 9 IJN DD because its made them OP in higher tiers now, so like everyone else I went and got myself a higher tier DD.

My top 3 XP earners are all DDs Mahan, Benson and Fubuki.

it will be the world of torpedos.

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Beta Tester
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If high tier DDs were so good, why didn't you win both the Kagerou games?

 ​Well because it is a new ship, and it has no upgrades on it  yet, and I'm not use to playing it yet, plus the teams I got wasn't the best either .

But having said that I also got the Izumo at the same time and managed to win the first 10 battles in that ship before losing the 11th one, but only won those battles because the teams I had were good and carried me hard as I did stuff all in them battles. but again no upgrades on that ship either but MM was kind to me in my first 10 battles lol

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Member
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DD's are not op by any means, at least the ones I play lol. I play tier 4/5 simply because they are a challenge to play rather than just blasting away in BB's and cruisers. 

Just set a limit as to how many are in one match which might result in a better balance per team. 

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Member
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Seems like everyone think its fine, but I agree with OP. Almost EVERY single game I've been having its either one team has 5-6 IJN dds, vs 2-3 US/VMF dd. And let me tell you.... The US and VMF dd cant be the dd killing gunboats they are when they are spotted the entire match.

 

There needs to be a DD limit of 3-4.

 

6 is way to much especially in Higher tiers where you have 2-3 shimakaze's+ 1-2 Kagero's and 1-2 Fubuki's. Funny those are all IJN dds.... as a exclusive dd and cruiser player I cant imagine playing BBs in high tiers!

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Super Tester
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This is coming from an avid DD player.

Currently there are too many DD's per battle and the balance at times is horrendous. I've just finished a match where one team had 6 DD's to the others 3. 

3 Japanese DD's against 2 Japanese, 2 American and 2 Russian does not seem balanced to me, especially in light of this from the patch notes.

 

I would like to ask how many times have you seen that kind of Match Making (MM)?

Because the real concern when it's become often than rare.

 

I only encounter 3 DD vs 5 DD once in my tier 6 match. Coz MM considered the 3 Mutsuki-division + 2 non-div DD, and ofcourse we lost coz 3 died one by one & no eyes against them ninjas.

The Matchmaking considers the available ships in the queue. But really Division may ruined the MM balance in battle. Inb4 3 Shimakaze division *facepalm*

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Beta Tester
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Well ive played Battles from tier 2 up to tier 10 and seen 6 DD on each side

But at the moment it does seem to be more DDs at tiers 2-4 and 8-10 than in the middle tiers of 5-7 since the new update.

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Member
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in queue line there are many CA than DD in case that you never look.

but reason by you 'feel' there's many DD out there because DD is only ship that haven't any limitation in MM system yet (but they working on it)

 

 

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I would say that -anecdotally- I have seen an increase in the number of DD but maybe perhaps we should be seeing a much tighter restriction on teams as it is.

1-2 CV per team

2-3 BB

3-5 CA

2 DD

 

And that's it.

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Super Tester
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I dunno man, as much as I hate the MM sometimes, I'll just accept that MM gave me and play it to the best of my abilities, no matter how unfair MM gives me (well I'll be waiting for a fix or if there is any). But hey, at least it's not bad as it used to be during CBT days :D (my tier 6 Mutsuki vs 3 Yamato's, ahhhh good ol days)

 

Just think of the bad MM as Taffy 3 going out against the Center Force :D (you'd probably sink but hey, at least you (we) tried)

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Senior Moderator
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Personally I'm finding this discussion intriguing noting the historical fleet compositions would normally be DD heavy.

 

Out of a 12 ship fleet, you would expect to find half were DD's (or other escort vessels) and Captial ships limited in number.

A common fleet would more often be 1-2 CV, 1-2 BB, 2-3 CA/CL and the rest DDs.

 

Granted it can make for difficult game play balance, but it is interesting how the in game meta is following the development of naval fleets over time.

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Senior Moderator
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Personally I'm finding this discussion intriguing noting the historical fleet compositions would normally be DD heavy.

 

Out of a 12 ship fleet, you would expect to find half were DD's (or other escort vessels) and Captial ships limited in number.

A common fleet would more often be 1-2 CV, 1-2 BB, 2-3 CA/CL and the rest DDs.

 

Granted it can make for difficult game play balance, but it is interesting how the in game meta is following the development of naval fleets over time.

 

Agreed.

 

In some of the major battles the ratio of DDs to other ships was pretty large too. Battle of Coral Sea had 13-15 DDs per side, Guadalcanal had 12-16 DDs per side, Leyte Gulf the Imperial Japanese Navy had 35+ destroyers and the Allied forces had 166 DD and DD(E) (number includes Auxillary ships, submarines + PT boats as well)

 

 

I'd hate so see a battle like that replayed on the servers :ohmy: torps everywhere....

 

Edited by ADM_dude

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Member
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Personally I'm finding this discussion intriguing noting the historical fleet compositions would normally be DD heavy.

 

Out of a 12 ship fleet, you would expect to find half were DD's (or other escort vessels) and Captial ships limited in number.

A common fleet would more often be 1-2 CV, 1-2 BB, 2-3 CA/CL and the rest DDs.

 

Granted it can make for difficult game play balance, but it is interesting how the in game meta is following the development of naval fleets over time.

 

I don't think historical fleet compositions should have any bearing on the game balance. 

 

Let's discuss something that gets brought up occasionally - roles. The roles that ships are supposed to perform and the place of roles within a standard MM random battle. I'm going to presume everyone in here is vaguely aware of what roles each ship is meant to perform so I won't patronise you all with the details.

 

I think that most games should have minimum 4 cruisers each because that sets a standard by which all other vessels are balanced around. It's this current process of trying to balance all ships against each other in some disharmonious conglomeration of concepts that keeps leading us towards these gross debates about the game balance - where every major or minor pass on the ships causes screaming fits (including from yours truly) because it violates the established narrative of how some things are supposed to perform.

 

I've not been around long enough to have seen any design documents stating where the games common denomination for ship size is - but cruiser is where it should be. DD scout and ambush, CA/CL provide the meat of the firepower and capturing power of the team, BB focus on scrub disposal and defense and CV of course can primarily focus on anti-BB work and supporting the cruisers with setting fires and knocking out guns/engines/torps. 

 

If this game had a single significant shortcoming it probably would be torpedoes. You know what I think? I think torps should have a count-down timer on when they get spotted. That way torping from 12km away carries the risk of those torps being seeing after 6km, USN/RU DD with 4km torps get seen (guaranteed) after a few km but overall offer less warning. Torpedoes as they are could then have captains skills pertaining to their concealment and to earlier spotting. Then you can replace AA powers on CA with torp spotting powers. Ergo CA/CL captains can specialise in AA, torp spotting or hybridise for reduced effectiveness at both. DD captains can focus on having slower torps with much better concealment or much faster torps that get seen earlier. Pursuant to all this I think the arming timer on TB needs to be a bit longer as well, as they are you can still drop very very close to enemy ships and score very respectable damage with them. Finally, TB torps should *never* be able to get a magazine hit on any ship. Magazine hits instakilling a ship is one of the worst mechanics in this game bar none but it's only a symptom of the bigger problem that is torpedoes. 

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Member
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IRL if fleet gonna contain more DD over other ship, is understandable, since it cheaper and take less time to build.

 

what's more is torpedoes IRL is nearly invincible not have red arrow show over it's head on the surface, and completely undetectable at night.

the more DD, the more threat to capital ship.

 

and IRL DD can't blink in and out like this game.

 

 

 

last.... DO NOT expect a balance in real war, each side will try to OP enemy as much as possible.

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Beta Tester
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but then again because the patch is still new players will use more DDs but in time those numbers will prob change again when players try new and different ships

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