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Lichtbringer

0.5.3 did not kill USN CVs

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So, Essex and Midway lost their 2nd torp bombers. At the same time with the 'torpedo acceleration' skill torpedo bombers got buffed by quite a bit. I was pretty sad when I saw this, but after a few game with the new Essex with 'crappy' 1/1/3 loadout and 'useless' dive bombers I found myself doing quite fine. 

 

The thing is, upgrading 500 lb bombs with 1000 lb ones means A LOT. It's now super easy to bite 20k off a battleship with one bomber squad. Also, armored decks, i.e. Taiho, Hakuryu and Midway are no longer resistant to those bombs. One squad will easily bite 10k right off. Of course, it's much less deadly against small ships like DDs and CAs. Without the second TB squad there is no more anvil attacks, and bombs rarely hit those small ships. But the patch also made CAs very effective against TBs, and be reminded that USN dive bombers suffer little accuracy loss under AA fire. I remember just carelessly aligning my drops and 3 DB squads took 25k off a Mogami in evasive maneuver. As for DDs, torpedo attacks on them have always been very risky anyway. Against large ships however, dive bombers are much easier to handle, much easier to land good drops, much more resistant to AA fire, and much harder to dodge. They kind of distract the enemy from dodging TB attacks as well, judging from experience. Besides they benefit from the air supremacy captain skill. 

 

Anyway, here's the screenshots from one particularly good game. 

 

 shot-16.02.26_23.34.10-0542.jpgshot-16.02.26_23.34.15-0176.jpgshot-16.02.26_23.34.12-0445.jpg

shot-16.02.26_23.34.10-0542.jpg

shot-16.02.26_23.34.12-0445.jpg

shot-16.02.26_23.34.15-0176.jpg

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I just upgraded from ranger to lex.. hollllyyyyy sheeeeeeeeeet this is a massive downgrade. I can barely even land a single bomb because the stock planes with the stock loadout are so bad. Stock fighters are, how you say? Total garbage.

 

Welp I guess I will just stop playing CV completely now. I've had enough.

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Super Tester
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I just upgraded from ranger to lex.. hollllyyyyy sheeeeeeeeeet this is a massive downgrade. I can barely even land a single bomb because the stock planes with the stock loadout are so bad. Stock fighters are, how you say? Total garbage.

 

Welp I guess I will just stop playing CV completely now. I've had enough.

 

Surprise, stock vehicles are bad.

Just do it like everyone else and stay in coop until you have the important upgrades.

I.e., fighter loadout.

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Super Tester
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I just upgraded from ranger to lex.. hollllyyyyy sheeeeeeeeeet this is a massive downgrade. I can barely even land a single bomb because the stock planes with the stock loadout are so bad. Stock fighters are, how you say? Total garbage.

 

Welp I guess I will just stop playing CV completely now. I've had enough.

 

Should have saved the free exp for the modules ww

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Beta Tester
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IDK mate, 1 screenshot prove nothing really since we all have some lucky days(specially bombers are quite RNG loving). I can also post some screenshot dumpstering some 013 and 202 lexingtons on my shokaku with their glorious 1k bombs. I also blame your enemy taihos for not sniping you out despite them owning the skies. ( if you can post 20 more screenshots of these, all games within 1 week at most, then you're saying all  truth)

 

But anyways, I must admit it didn't really kill USN CVs since it's now attracting players who like to auto click everything. I'm also quite happy that a lot of USN CV players seems content about the changes, because of this I can enjoy wrecking with my IJN CVs and might play regularly again. OH boy

Edited by Deicide

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I'm using my 202 Ranger in Team Battles with my team and I'm constantly either beating or on par against 312 Hiryu's with Air Supremacy skill even though I dont have it.

Dive Bombers also helps focus out the Nagato's and the occasional Myoko as well with my team. (Also I need a CV for my team.. I'm not a big CV player)

Edited by TE_Deathskyz

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Surprise, stock vehicles are bad.

Just do it like everyone else and stay in coop until you have the important upgrades.

I.e., fighter loadout.

 

I'd really love to but having potato teams that die to bots is really getting to me. I'm losing 140k a game and can't stop the bleeding.

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I'd really love to but having potato teams that die to bots is really getting to me. I'm losing 140k a game and can't stop the bleeding.

 

Bye.

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kill? well not really. making it more derp it the right word.

ohh yeah, bomb got upgrade big time. 1000lbs about damn time WG. US aviation already use those 1000lbs bomb like since forever. one thing that i know for sure, in battle of midway those bomber already carry 1000lbs bomb, their cv not even essex class yet. good job making it more historically accurate.

 

honestly i dont know why WG decide to remove the 1 TB squad on essex and midway. is that because they do more damage than tahio or hakuryu?

just look at this pic for a second5uJdWVb.jpg?1

as you can see, if we compare the CV per tier, japan CV always deal MORE damage compare to US counterpart, untill essex and midway comes. US CV player endure this from tier 4, finally at tier 9 onward, US CV can dealt more damage than japan. for historical reason, i think that is acceptable, as we know essex are large attack carrier meanwhile taiho sunk at her first sortie.

 

look at lex plane kill ratio. 30, it so damn high. meaning that lex kill lots of planes and losing only few plane (damn those 2/1/1 you'll be missed) even with that kind of air superiority, shoukaku still manage to dealt 14k more damage than lex. that is some serious damage there.

 

here's some piece of my mind regarding the 0.5.3 high tier cv change

1. lexington change from 2/1/1 to 1/1/1 -> did they want to reduce plane kill ratio from lex? did they want to make shoukaku rule the air or something? indeed lex still have 2/0/2 loadout, still same superiority. but really, 1TB from 2/1/1 is better than those 2 upgraded DB from new 2/0/2

2. CV sniping -> it not a rare thing we see CV sniping in tier 9-10 battle. those the new 1/1/3 loadout make essex and midway lose ability to do this? nope, they still can do CV sniping, but need more time. by i mean more time is essex and midway need to rely on hazard damage (fire/flood) those 12 torpedoes from taiho/haku can kill you instantly, no kidding. they even dont need to send their dive bomber to snipe CV. meanwhile US CV need to wait. those 6 torpedoes will not kill any CV instantly, not even hiryu. if the torpedo strike done well and enemy CV is flooding, you really really really need to wait for them to use their repair because the next 3 wave of DB you send will not instantly obliterate them. you need to let the hazard do their job, and if you dont wait and just send wave after wave without waiting, the last thing you know is enemy CV still standing there, flooding burning but then she use repair and you need to do 2nd wave of striking.  and dont forget those AA upgrade. taiho now have same value ass essex. dont know about hakuryu and midway tho.

3. DD hunting -> its obvious that japan cv can do more tricky torpedo strike to kill DD on one run. TB from one side are mode easily to dodge than from 3 sides right?

4. damaging CA -> manual drop DB can do lots of damage, but manual dropping DB on CA is not the brightest plan, they fast, they can turn faster than DB doing strike run. you have lower chance hitting than in autodrop mode. not to mention those AA consumable. even when their accuracy impaired, TB can still score damage because you see the torps you aim the torp, no RNG bullshit, meanwhile DB? better pray to RNGesus your DB got one bomb hit to do 3k damage

4. BB killing -> tirpitz on one of the easiest BB to kill, i do that since using lexington, killing tirpitz for fun. the old 1/2/2 loadout can kill tirpitz in one swoop instantly. 12 torpedoes are no jokes. taiho can still do the same. already seen many tirpitz got killed by 12 taiho torpedoes. now the new 1/1/3. no man, you just cant do it anymore. even if you got 6 torpedo hits and those 3DB do their job, you cannot kill this tirpitz instantly anymore. you do lots of damage, YES. especially with the fire you started. but is that enough to kill her? maybe yes, if she dont have the upgrade that reduce fire/flooding damage. maybe not if she have those upgrades or you dont even start the hazard.

 

bottom line: 0.5.3 kill USN CV especially essex and midway? NO. BIG NO. make it less potential? YES. FREAKING BIG YES.

you need more time to kill something because you rely more on those fire that DB start.

funny tho, its like WG want to make Japan CV have superiority in damage on all tier. even though in real life hakuryu is paper ship, taiho use same plane as shoukaku. cmon wargaming, be more historical. you put all the good in japan DD japan BB. why not US CV

Edited by AsliWongJowo

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Super Tester
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here's some piece of my mind regarding the 0.5.3 high tier cv change

1. lexington change from 2/1/1 to 1/1/1 -> did they want to reduce plane kill ratio from lex? did they want to make shoukaku rule the air or something? indeed lex still have 2/0/2 loadout, still same superiority. but really, 1TB from 2/1/1 is better than those 2 upgraded DB from new 2/0/2

2. CV sniping -> it not a rare thing we see CV sniping in tier 9-10 battle. those the new 1/1/3 loadout make essex and midway lose ability to do this? nope, they still can do CV sniping, but need more time. by i mean more time is essex and midway need to rely on hazard damage (fire/flood) those 12 torpedoes from taiho/haku can kill you instantly, no kidding. they even dont need to send their dive bomber to snipe CV. meanwhile US CV need to wait. those 6 torpedoes will not kill any CV instantly, not even hiryu. if the torpedo strike done well and enemy CV is flooding, you really really really need to wait for them to use their repair because the next 3 wave of DB you send will not instantly obliterate them. you need to let the hazard do their job, and if you dont wait and just send wave after wave without waiting, the last thing you know is enemy CV still standing there, flooding burning but then she use repair and you need to do 2nd wave of striking.  and dont forget those AA upgrade. taiho now have same value ass essex. dont know about hakuryu and midway tho.

3. DD hunting -> its obvious that japan cv can do more tricky torpedo strike to kill DD on one run. TB from one side are mode easily to dodge than from 3 sides right?

4. damaging CA -> manual drop DB can do lots of damage, but manual dropping DB on CA is not the brightest plan, they fast, they can turn faster than DB doing strike run. you have lower chance hitting than in autodrop mode. not to mention those AA consumable. even when their accuracy impaired, TB can still score damage because you see the torps you aim the torp, no RNG bullshit, meanwhile DB? better pray to RNGesus your DB got one bomb hit to do 3k damage

4. BB killing -> tirpitz on one of the easiest BB to kill, i do that since using lexington, killing tirpitz for fun. the old 1/2/2 loadout can kill tirpitz in one swoop instantly. 12 torpedoes are no jokes. taiho can still do the same. already seen many tirpitz got killed by 12 taiho torpedoes. now the new 1/1/3. no man, you just cant do it anymore. even if you got 6 torpedo hits and those 3DB do their job, you cannot kill this tirpitz instantly anymore. you do lots of damage, YES. especially with the fire you started. but is that enough to kill her? maybe yes, if she dont have the upgrade that reduce fire/flooding damage. maybe not if she have those upgrades or you dont even start the hazard.

 

1 - I quote from WG " No way! Essex and Midway had enormous advantages. It was necessary to decrease their performance. Lexington, however, had only one obvious and effective research option – the one originally offered. ". What they want to do now is enforce the role for USN CVs to have air superiority while supporting with bombers as apposed to the strike potential of the IJN, which IMO should not be done.

3 - IJN torps are extremely easy to dodge if there is 1 squad due to their spread size. USN torps on the other side can easily hit 2 torps. Anyways, if you have to attack a DD as a CV with your TBs, you are doing something wrong.

4. USN DB's under barrage can still manage to hit bombs. IJN simply cannon, the drop size becomes the size of the moon coupled with only 4-5 bombers.

5. It just means you can't kill a tirpitz with your alpha strike and have to resort to doing it the IJN style, through fires after they've used their repair.

 

Also, you should use a more recent table if you are trying to compare 0.5.3

 

 mo3ZIpI.png

As you can see, more players are playing 013 lexington, making T8 and T9 the same average damage. However, Midway has 25k more damage, 5% more WR but 7 less average plane kills. This is due to more people running 4-2-2 on their Hak. Hak has a lot more squads than Midway, meaning you require much more skill in order to preform well. Evenly skilled players in a Midway vs Hak, the Hak will win but as you can clearly see, Hak is underperforming due to the lack of skill. What WG needed to do wasn't to take away the TB squad, they needed to rework CVs. Making your damage rely on RNG isn't a rework.

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here's some piece of my mind regarding the 0.5.3 high tier cv change

1. lexington change from 2/1/1 to 1/1/1 -> did they want to reduce plane kill ratio from lex? did they want to make shoukaku rule the air or something? indeed lex still have 2/0/2 loadout, still same superiority. but really, 1TB from 2/1/1 is better than those 2 upgraded DB from new 2/0/2

2. CV sniping -> it not a rare thing we see CV sniping in tier 9-10 battle. those the new 1/1/3 loadout make essex and midway lose ability to do this? nope, they still can do CV sniping, but need more time. by i mean more time is essex and midway need to rely on hazard damage (fire/flood) those 12 torpedoes from taiho/haku can kill you instantly, no kidding. they even dont need to send their dive bomber to snipe CV. meanwhile US CV need to wait. those 6 torpedoes will not kill any CV instantly, not even hiryu. if the torpedo strike done well and enemy CV is flooding, you really really really need to wait for them to use their repair because the next 3 wave of DB you send will not instantly obliterate them. you need to let the hazard do their job, and if you dont wait and just send wave after wave without waiting, the last thing you know is enemy CV still standing there, flooding burning but then she use repair and you need to do 2nd wave of striking.  and dont forget those AA upgrade. taiho now have same value ass essex. dont know about hakuryu and midway tho.

3. DD hunting -> its obvious that japan cv can do more tricky torpedo strike to kill DD on one run. TB from one side are mode easily to dodge than from 3 sides right?

4. damaging CA -> manual drop DB can do lots of damage, but manual dropping DB on CA is not the brightest plan, they fast, they can turn faster than DB doing strike run. you have lower chance hitting than in autodrop mode. not to mention those AA consumable. even when their accuracy impaired, TB can still score damage because you see the torps you aim the torp, no RNG bullshit, meanwhile DB? better pray to RNGesus your DB got one bomb hit to do 3k damage

4. BB killing -> tirpitz on one of the easiest BB to kill, i do that since using lexington, killing tirpitz for fun. the old 1/2/2 loadout can kill tirpitz in one swoop instantly. 12 torpedoes are no jokes. taiho can still do the same. already seen many tirpitz got killed by 12 taiho torpedoes. now the new 1/1/3. no man, you just cant do it anymore. even if you got 6 torpedo hits and those 3DB do their job, you cannot kill this tirpitz instantly anymore. you do lots of damage, YES. especially with the fire you started. but is that enough to kill her? maybe yes, if she dont have the upgrade that reduce fire/flooding damage. maybe not if she have those upgrades or you dont even start the hazard.

 

 

1 - I quote from WG " No way! Essex and Midway had enormous advantages. It was necessary to decrease their performance. Lexington, however, had only one obvious and effective research option – the one originally offered. ". What they want to do now is enforce the role for USN CVs to have air superiority while supporting with bombers as apposed to the strike potential of the IJN, which IMO should not be done.

3 - IJN torps are extremely easy to dodge if there is 1 squad due to their spread size. USN torps on the other side can easily hit 2 torps. Anyways, if you have to attack a DD as a CV with your TBs, you are doing something wrong.

4. USN DB's under barrage can still manage to hit bombs. IJN simply cannon, the drop size becomes the size of the moon coupled with only 4-5 bombers.

5. It just means you can't kill a tirpitz with your alpha strike and have to resort to doing it the IJN style, through fires after they've used their repair.

 

1 - I'm more for if they made the 2/1/1 lex the air superiority loadout with the bombs being retained to 500lb.

2 - This is more of a nitpick but those 12 torps more or less wouldn't get to kill a Midway unless there's a substantial damage from flooding. And with CV AA, same tier planes hardly get to make a drop without losing 1 or 2 from a squadron. And IJN are usually more vulnerable to losing planes due to how AA damage to a shot down plane is calculated.

3 - DD hunting - Assuming perfect drops and the DD player being alert at dodging, IJN CVs would always need two squadrons to guarantee a hit due to the spread while the USN CV can do it with only one. In short, I'm just saying that if you want to get a very competent DD out, you'd have to dedicate all your TBs regardless of number of squadrons for each nation. That or just catch him off guard or something.

4 - CA hunting - in terms of CA hunting, it's just as Lunatic said, US planes fare better than IJN counterparts when under defensive AA fire, both for the drop spread and just tanking some AA. And as for manual dropping, yes it really is hard to do against an agile CA but it is extremely rewarding to actually hit due to the really high damage.

5 - Same nitpick, you can't really kill a tirpitz with 12 torps alpha damage ONLY unless you get good rolls and there's no guarantee of ever dropping 12 torps since Tirpitz actually has respectable AA. And I'd be angry too if I was the BB getting deleted by only one strike run(this may also be a reason for the nerf). (it's pretty improbable for IJN drops to get 4 torp hits per squadron unless the enemy BB is sailing in a straight line)

 

I'm just reconciling some points made by you two with my own opinion, just my 2 cents.

I'm somewhat torn since Essex and Midways with 2 TB are plenty deadly but reducing it to become a dive bomber working for RNG isn't really good. Wish they'd have a mechanic to lessen the RNG someday (but then it'd create another skill disparity between CV captains)

 

Kind of off-topic: I really hate it when sometimes my one torp from my TB actually does hit a DD and then it takes only 3k damage. It's usually 5-6-7k or something but the odd roll of 3k happens sometimes that it makes me think that the DD has a torpedo armor belt of a Yamato.

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1 - I quote from WG " No way! Essex and Midway had enormous advantages. It was necessary to decrease their performance. Lexington, however, had only one obvious and effective research option – the one originally offered. ". What they want to do now is enforce the role for USN CVs to have air superiority while supporting with bombers as apposed to the strike potential of the IJN, which IMO should not be done.

3 - IJN torps are extremely easy to dodge if there is 1 squad due to their spread size. USN torps on the other side can easily hit 2 torps. Anyways, if you have to attack a DD as a CV with your TBs, you are doing something wrong.

Also, you should use a more recent table if you are trying to compare 0.5.3

 

 mo3ZIpI.png

As you can see, more players are playing 013 lexington, making T8 and T9 the same average damage. However, Midway has 25k more damage, 5% more WR but 7 less average plane kills. This is due to more people running 4-2-2 on their Hak. Hak has a lot more squads than Midway, meaning you require much more skill in order to preform well. Evenly skilled players in a Midway vs Hak, the Hak will win but as you can clearly see, Hak is underperforming due to the lack of skill. What WG needed to do wasn't to take away the TB squad, they needed to rework CVs. Making your damage rely on RNG isn't a rework.

i dont understand why if CV need to attack DD with TB then she is doing something wrong?

what should CV use then? DB? isnt the chance of hit better with TB?

 

what is air superiority anyway?

well i kinda agree with this guy http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/44607-are-jap-cvs-op/page__pid__862017#entry862017

 

well i use overall statistic because i want to show how IJN vs USN CV perform before 0.5.3 patch, so here you go

 

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what is air superiority anyway?

well i kinda agree with this guy http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/44607-are-jap-cvs-op/page__pid__862017#entry862017

 

So do I. Though I would like to add to add the unskilled, the lazy, in short, the MASS beside that masochist. USN CVs has become the lower skill ceiling ship and became a true "easy ship for everybody, anybody"--with those powerful dive bombers, USN dive bomber's "stable" auto-drop reticle in spite of fighter/fighter scout and cruiser AA skill, and less reliance on the torpedo squads which requires great skill to use. They also have less squads so less skill required in that area as well.

 

IJN CVs requires good control over multiple squads and still relies more on its torpedo bombers for damage. IJN CVs also have the more versatile flight setups/control. So if you want to have fun, engaging and truly effective CV gameplay, choose the IJN.

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Super Tester
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i dont understand why if CV need to attack DD with TB then she is doing something wrong?

what should CV use then? DB? isnt the chance of hit better with TB?

 

Simply provide information to your team by spotting them, making DDs virtually useless. Use DBs to reset their cap and kill them when they're the last ones alive/attacking you (but you shouldn't be out of position anyways).

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So do I. Though I would like to add to add the unskilled, the lazy, in short, the MASS beside that masochist. USN CVs has become the lower skill ceiling ship and became a true "easy ship for everybody, anybody"--with those powerful dive bombers, USN dive bomber's "stable" auto-drop reticle in spite of fighter/fighter scout and cruiser AA skill, and less reliance on the torpedo squads which requires great skill to use. They also have less squads so less skill required in that area as well.

 

IJN CVs requires good control over multiple squads and still relies more on its torpedo bombers for damage. IJN CVs also have the more versatile flight setups/control. So if you want to have fun, engaging and truly effective CV gameplay, choose the IJN.

indeed USN CV is easy ship

tier 4 5 6 7 majority of the player gonna use AS loadout. point and click gameplay. very easy

 

if you want to have fun, engaging and truly effective CV gameplay, choose IJN

if you want to have fun, destroying and truly effective DD gameplay, choose IJN

if you want to have fun, obliterating and truly effective BB gameplay, choose IJN

if you want to have fun, fulfilling and truly effective CA gameplay, choose USSR when they comes out :trollface:

murica is great enough. make japan great again

 

Simply provide information to your team by spotting them, making DDs virtually useless. Use DBs to reset their cap and kill them when they're the last ones alive/attacking you (but you shouldn't be out of position anyways).

well first of all, cant hovering plane over DD forever.

when you hovering your fighter, you cant protect your team mate or even your self from enemy bomber.

when you hovering your bomber, well bomber need to be rearmed right? cant stay on DD head forever. or did you want empty bomber airborne?

spotting them is not enough, you need to take action.

and you say that spotting DD make them virtually useless. cmon mate, you only talking about IJN DD here am i right?

USSR DD dont even need to be spotted, they will show them self off.

USN DD still have fight in them when they are spotted, those 2x3 127mm gun on gearing not just for show ya know. they pack punch

IJN DD -> get spotted -> team chat -> "kill this aircraft above my head you stupid noob CV"

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As if CVs are still playable anyway with all these 20-miles range 410mm AA guns.

I mean even a moderator openly put his forum signature as "I hate airplanes".

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As if CVs are still playable anyway with all these 20-miles range 410mm AA guns.

I mean even a moderator openly put his forum signature as "I hate airplanes".

 

What's that got to do with anything?

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well first of all, cant hovering plane over DD forever.

when you hovering your fighter, you cant protect your team mate or even your self from enemy bomber.

when you hovering your bomber, well bomber need to be rearmed right? cant stay on DD head forever. or did you want empty bomber airborne?

spotting them is not enough, you need to take action.

and you say that spotting DD make them virtually useless. cmon mate, you only talking about IJN DD here am i right?

USSR DD dont even need to be spotted, they will show them self off.

USN DD still have fight in them when they are spotted, those 2x3 127mm gun on gearing not just for show ya know. they pack punch

IJN DD -> get spotted -> team chat -> "kill this aircraft above my head you stupid noob CV"

 

You should be selective on which DDs you should be spotting.

You don't use fighters to scout if enemy CV is alive.

You can sacrifice one DB squad since they have a minimal impact after they've attacked.

Talking about all DDs, they will not be able to torp and I don't think any DDs can beat a CA.

In all my CV games I have not seen anyone say that. Also if they are sending in their fighters to attack your spotting squad, you bait the fighters and return after the fighters leave. 

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You should be selective on which DDs you should be spotting.

You don't use fighters to scout if enemy CV is alive.

You can sacrifice one DB squad since they have a minimal impact after they've attacked.

Talking about all DDs, they will not be able to torp and I don't think any DDs can beat a CA.

In all my CV games I have not seen anyone say that. Also if they are sending in their fighters to attack your spotting squad, you bait the fighters and return after the fighters leave. 

dont use fighter to scout when enemy CV alive -> so, you need to do sniping then? or else?

wait, sacrifice one DB squad? we talking about high tier match right? ohh i see, you must be IJN CV user then, well yeah their DB squad is useless anyway, low damage, bad spread.

wait, USSR DD wont even bothering with torps, they get detected first and then their torps enter effective range. as for USN they have great gun, they have good AA. put some smoke and start firing, waiting for reinforcement. no reinforcement come? well, you just out of luck then. i can understand very well why  you said they (DD) wont be able to torp. because the moment torps come out, the plane spot them. even slowest rudder BB will able to dodge 10km torps if they saw it right away. now now, using torps, running if detected, never fire its gun because it make them harder to hiding.. now, what DD fit that description i wonder?

some people say wows is like rock paper scissor game.

[bB beat CA | CA beat DD | DD beat BB ] DD cant beat CA, that's the way it is. if DD can beat CA and BB then its not rock paper scissor game anymore. but in the field, can CA beat DD like it should be? nope. simply because stealth mechanic in the game. in order to CA can kill DD they need a vision. so spotting DD will not make DD useless, it will make the role ship become the way it should be. mano to mano with CA, DD can fight back, sometimes they lose, sometimes they win. but DD most likely will lose against CA. same applied to BB and CA. when CA mano to mano with BB its not like the CA became useless, they can fight back, sometimes they lose, sometimes they win. but CA most likely lose against BB

Edited by AsliWongJowo

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