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saki6200

WG, I am VERY SAD NOW

Is CV dead?  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. Is CV dead?


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Dear WG dev and fellow players,

 

I don't know if it is a suggestion or question now since you are gonna to introduce what you changed in 0.5.3PT and posted the announcement, indeed i wanna to post this in feedback forum.

 

TL;DR: You better delete the whole cv line rather than changing the stuff like this, I believe even the top tier cv player(both skills and ship tiers) will STOP PLAYING if you really introduce the OVERWHELMING AA changes in the PT server, since high tier cv can NEVER attack again just by AA MECHANICS. We are really CONFUSED and FRUSTRATED on WHAT YOU CHANGED and WHAT PATH YOU WANT CV TO GO.
 
Before talking about cv, which as a cv player concerned the most. Lets start talking dd first, since the change is very large, including those captain skill change.
 
Let’s roughly go through those captain skills first:
 
1.     Last stand changed to second tier skill, quite good since dd is very easy to have their parts damaged, and those rngs in facts, really determine the outcome of a dogfight, and snowball a game. If in domination mode, this is really huge, just rngs.
Getting this early can increase the survivability of those dds,great for new comers and let them having better experience.
2.     The skill increasing torp. Speed& decreasing the range, ok finally a skill which is completely (only in some sense) viable for underpower higher tier IJN dds. Well, many people saying that it is op or anything else, but to be quite honest, I really don’t think the accuracy will be increased drastically, since, too many detection method (planes,sonars, dd in opponent team, etc.), but at least, punishing alone bb is gotta be “easier”.
Something to elaborate: the torp damage is too low at long range againstbb at higher tier(aka 8~10), a shimakaze can’t kill a yamato with a perfectlong range torps.(3~4hit, actually only having 40k~60k damage in total), and having a 3 minute cd, and yamato can heal back up, to maybe 60k before the next wave of torp. up, kinda ridiculous in a lot of sense, even nerf yamato’s healing power still doesn’t solve the problem: long range torp isn’t as effective as one god like rng salvo.
3.     400health*tier added to the ship health, everyone wants more health on dd, and this 4000 health is like buffing dd too much compared to their mobility provided. Not much explain,maybe soviet dd can 1v1 yamato in a 10km fight without using torp.
 
I can only see the only ships buffed is soviet ships, both dd and mikhail got a huge buff.
 
Back on the torpedo topic, which every player complaining since beta or even alpha from what I see. With the current game, long range torpedo itself almost doing no damage, but actually generates damage for the team, in a optimal situation. However with the spread provided & the detection range alone, a bb can actually tank up the damage or easily dodge without taking damage, considering different situation they are in. BB isn't affected by a well scouted torps.
 
“3 Shimakaze is op in T10 battles!”
 
Ok, one is not good, and 3 is op?(or ACTUALLY one "op" shima can do a 3-way torp. himself)Thinking about the current detection method, you have actually sonar, your teammates, planes, scout planes to detect the torps in quite a far range, think about the dd survivability, think about the bb survivability,it is only about the lack of team coordination to detect the torp rather than the shimakaze itself is op, while shima cannot win any t10 dd in a dogfight. How can you say a dd having better torp but losing every single dogfight op?
 
Well, maybe we don’t talk about t10, in the mid tier nowadays, what I have seen when I climbing up my USN CV in SEA server is, people never think about the dd have already torp him when he see a dd in range to torp him who scouted by my plane. And get a 4~5 hit to the face(considering most dd have only 8 torp at once in mid tier), and say, dd op,wow, such a good player. A good player have no idea about the torpedos' timing.
 
Well, maybe elaborate one more thing. In my experience playing high tier games, there are very very little players considered to bring sonar into a game since the caliber of the sonar usage is too high, they don’t know when will have torp if there is no cv(for average players, a good player almost always know where the torps are), bringing barrage skill is always better in a game with cv, so I think it is one of reason players are actually blaming rather than “shimakaze OP/IJNDD OP”. People really not urged to bring sonar at all.
 
        Yeah WG, maybe you need to think about those “good players” experience, but on high tier IJN dd stand point, the current thing is, they can never have a meaningful torp attack if there is a good cv in game.(not even some supreme cv player)
 
So, why play shima? Because there is no cv in game, no one can effectively spot shimakaze except kagero. Why there is no cv? AA too powerful when you have fully aa upgraded ship even in 0.5.2., people can't attack zao with IJN cv.
 
        This bring to the point people blaming  “CV op” occurred for a year and keep going, still, people complaining because they get rekted, having no idea how to dodge the aircraft torpedos, by simple turning their ships at right way, aka a new comer. And WG, you tune up the aa stats every single time, to a point where a “newbie” never invest in aa can rekt a cv with USN ca/USN bb SOLO, just by pressing a barrage skill/ just rely on aa alone can destroy 75% of the planes before they attack, is that such a playable experience for any CV player? I would say not.
 
CV, as the hardest ship to play in WoWs, having numerous situation that they are in, need to think about ALMOST every single ships movement, torpedo cds,thinking about where and when to invest the planes to have a positive outcome,having that many tactics, but having a stupid reward when the other team having overpower aa alone because you cannot do damage on them, even back in 0.5.2 where we are playing now, IJN CV still need to find the weak point and attack, but even when you found that point out, it doesn't have a 50% chance if that target is not alone.
 
WG you keep saying HE should be able to lowering the aa defense of the other ships, but what I see is, HE means nothing, if HE can lower the aa defense to a acceptable level for cv, it already killed the ship twice or more, then why having this mechanics in game?
 
The last time i post when PT 0.5.2 comes up, I said the balance between USN and IJN CV is broken that should be having some fine tune, but not “CV is playable”, maybe you think CV is playable? In T4? This time you made the aa damage exponentially increase while the planes health are in linear, an aa fully upgraded cleverland can easily killing midway planes with the new aa formula that included in this patch, is that funny enough? When better players know to upgraded their aa range, their aa power against cv, the people who don’t know just keep blaming “cv op”, and make cv suffered in high tiers, is that really what you want?
 
Sorry for whining but seriously the 0.5.3 aa change is a joke for every single cv player,and completely ruining the cv players’ experience when playing. I would say only the new formula is introduce without any rng included is good enough as a first step for balancing those cv problem but not making us frustrated.
 
And to be quite honest, if you want both “newbie” and “god tier” cv players both happy is impossible, since the cv mechanics now is allowing better players “killing” not good enough players every single game, who doesn’t stand a chance except the large differential in the captain skills. And bad cv players’ statistics will confusing the one who’s reading since they are really junk when talking about CV mechanics and the CV interaction against the other ships, they don't even have a chance to attack and get sunk when the game start.
 
Yeah because the“not good enough” players are always exist, the team who have that guy will have a tough time just because of the other team’s cv, and what I see is, you keep increasing the aa value to a point in 0.5.2 where a team(without a USN CA)who knows how to grouping aa and using aa skill orderly will never fear cv since the aa power is too much for the planes. And the USN CA can take down the whole plane squad solo without problems.
 
So what’s the result? A CV can’t overcome one ca in a ship crew and they can only pray if the team is good enough to get them from the game started, and when one team who having not good enough players playing other ships, cv can do nothing even they win the CV battle(except they can scout), such a joke, or, you want cv doing nothing just killing those fts in T10 and using every single squad on one ship in one attack?
 
So, as the result of 0.5(before this 0.5.3 patch to be exact), A CV cannot overcome one group of ship who having one ca and they can only pray if that ca is died earlier during the game. If the team is not good enough, cv don’t have any impact in the game considering the winning snowball (scouting alone isn’t enough to win the game). Think about why you give torp squad and dive bombers for cv? In this patch(0.5.3) I would seriously think a 5/0/0 midway is better than every other single loadout in t10 in terms of the game control, in terms of win condition and snowball.
 
Besides,you still haven’t solve the problem when ca press one button the cv got screwed, esp. when playing IJN cv, the spread is really broken, and from what I have mentioned before, a well-played ship team does not care about the cv since they have unlimited barrage skill throughout the game while having 2cas, wherein normal game (random battle) there are always 4cas or above, is that really a good practice to let cv exposed to numerous aa skill before they can attack?
 
aa elaboration: There are some advanced tactics on those ca since the aa range>plane detection range, where they close their aa and wait your planes get into middle range(killing range) of your ship then start aa again, CV can do NOTHING like the bb getting torp in cbt/0.3.1 (look at your Mikhail, 9.2km range, 3x+ compared to the TB range, what cv can do if there are 3 or more Mikhail on a single team in the same team? Nothing.)
 
Then u bring USN CA’s(no, that’s Mikhail power) aa defense power to every single type of CA now is really ridiculous, CV can bring nothing to impact the game because they have no damage, a better ship crew can always [Redacted] up the bad ship crew which doesn’t matter if a cv is very very good or not.
 
With all the points mentioning about those striking is useless, still, players tend to bring strike-heavy loadout, the reasons behind are:
1.     Better trust myself to carry my teammates rather than wait my teammates to carry me.
2.     FT is having less impact(almost useless imo for lower skill player)compared to TB or even DB
3.     Scouting for ten minutes having less impact than doing 1k damage killing a dd, and boring too(i'm kidding)

 

 
Based on the fact that TB’s torp front-end damage is the main damage source for CV after you implement a faster damage repair control and all those signals, people only focus TB as the main target to SIGNIFICANTLY decrease the CV damage, if you have study enough high quality battles in T10, the ship kills are always come from the others but not the cvs. However, the game quality below T10 is quite low and I can hardly find one game as an example.
 
Not only that,your ft still being useless, no pressure on the other ships except dd who don’t have anti-air power anyways, and now, you buffed 0.5.3 dd’s aa to a strong state that can anti-air, so what is the target of a cv? We just need to upgrade the aa parts for our ships and killing cv, wow, amazing, can it be more simple than brain-dead?
 
And for the BBs, they still have a degree of air defense that won’t let you having no pressure when attacking them, still, without increasing damage, cv having almost 0 impact in the early to late game, the game stage affecting all the stats that you can see on the website, Most of the damage late game doesn’t control a game at all, and we still putting up numbers since we need experience and money for research and maintenance.
 
Well, u may say cv can still commanding your team, ok when I play hakuryu, or even taiho. I can hardly find the time to type in some complicated command like dd torping one specific area, start gaining some map vision or get to a point where they can bluff the other team’s cv not to using that route, or baiting the other team into a trap, you can never tell them what thing you want them to do specifically and accurately. And as if you did that, what rewarding you is the win rate, not even one single experience or money(or if you counting the winning bonus there are).
 
So, why playing CV? Really not point to play.
 
If you keep treating us, cv players as the second class players, please tell us you do so, and we will leave the game without any question, because there is no point to play a non-factor ship in a competitive game.
 
After CV leaving, no one scouting the dd’s torpedos, numerous “BB player” will start blaming “DD op” like what they did in beta, then you nerf IJN dd again, so are people forced to play the third personal shooting game rather than naval war? Then you can changed the game title into “world of warships shooting”, which doesn’t change the abbreviation.
 
To all BB players, you can keep on whining every single type ships “op” on the forum, I don’t really care, but if the game turns into world of BBs, don’t blame the other using aiming assistant mod, which is the real OP stuff.
 
To fix?(or actually not to fix) is all upon WG your decision, it is not easy to revise every single tier’s ships aa and those planes hp in depth, but can you at least, make the aa value rather linear for the cas and think about how “unplayable” cv is with the current state when there are only two ca have fully aa upgraded in one team.( yeah this is live now, enjoy getting your plane shoot down but you can do nothing)
 
All in all, we love this game, thus we feedback, but this time, you really make cv step into the graveyard except t4/5, and i am really considering if i should playing this game or not because of this change. We are really CONFUSED and FRUSTRATED on WHAT YOU CHANGED and WHAT PATH YOU WANT CV TO GO. I have no question if you only want to see CVs in team battle, i can really understand all the changes then.
 
Too many whining:
Welcome to World of Warships shooting 0.5.3 patch. There is gonna be no good CV around since it is broken+unplayable, enjoy eating more torps and blame dd op, happy hunting!
 
Thank you for reading this.
 
p.s. WOW, so many caps, but still, can't even express my emotion when i typing this, feel free to fill out the poll and tell WG WHAT YOU THINK.
 
Best Regards,
saki6200
 
Profanity. Post edited, user warned.
~Syanda
Edited by Syanda

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You haven't tried out the dive bombers on PT, have you? Not to mention the torpedo speed increase also applies to TBs, making it possible for a good CV player to actually land more torpedoes. 

 

The result of the main AAA changes is that CV players can no longer loiter within enemy AA, which was the primary issue with CVs, especially at the higher tiers, where CV captains could essentially pick and choose their precise angles while UFOing around a ship's AA envelope, content that their plane's HPs are high enough to simply tank the RNG. That can no longer happen.


Also, for the record, game changes are not made based on whoever shouts the loudest, but done partly through feedback and primarily through the examination of server-side metrics. You can be damned sure that WG's capable of tracking where every ship sunk in matches, what killed them, what shots are fire, etc, etc - all this data is available server-side, and balance changes are done through that. Feedback is taken into account, sure, but if it does not match what WG's seeing, then it's hot air.

Edited by Syanda

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You haven't tried out the dive bombers on PT, have you? Not to mention the torpedo speed increase also applies to TBs, making it possible for a good CV player to actually land more torpedoes. 

 

The result of the main AAA changes is that CV players can no longer loiter within enemy AA, which was the primary issue with CVs, especially at the higher tiers, where CV captains could essentially pick and choose their precise angles while UFOing around a ship's AA envelope, content that their plane's HPs are high enough to simply tank the RNG. That can no longer happen.

 

Also, for the record, game changes are not made based on whoever shouts the loudest, but done partly through feedback and primarily through the examination of server-side metrics. You can be damned sure that WG's capable of tracking where every ship sunk in matches, what killed them, what shots are fire, etc, etc - all this data is available server-side, and balance changes are done through that. Feedback is taken into account, sure, but if it does not match what WG's seeing, then it's hot air.

 

Tried by myself+friend and we have discussed about those before i posting this kind of thread, if you have notice, wg almost haven't changed any higher tier planes stats(except the db speed significant buff on USN cv+ft on both sides, which doesn't matter.) Since now its about the ship crew battle as cv cannot even attack with those changed aa EVEN you have your speed buffed, from what i heard is midway can't successfully land an attack on DM alone.

And i have asked in the original thread too, is HE now properly damaging those aa on the ship?

 

Anyway, on a 170+ ping server i can't even play IJN cv properly so i have only tried the midway and i think it can only attack some ship which is alone on the sea, not much i can elaborate before trying hakuryu on a 30ping server.

I tried to stay calm, but even then, every single cv player i met is really mad about those changes and telling me cv is dead, someone like kavacha is blaming too, you can check, 2k+ midway battles with 70%+ winrate.

I mostly concerned about the highest tier in this essay, but not the mid-tier one since im playing poorly(~50-55%WR) so i decided not to touch on lexing 111 change or langley 111 change, just the planes and aa mechanics alone in the thread and the consequences about the T10 matchmakings.

 

One more thing, i was thinking over 10days for this feedback and when i suddenly see the announcement saying it is going to live.. i am like, LOL?

Edited by saki6200

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Tried by myself+friend and we have discussed about those before i posting this kind of thread, if you have notice, wg almost haven't changed any higher tier planes stats(except the db speed significant buff on USN cv, which doesn't matter.) Since now its about the ship crew battle as cv cannot even attack with those changed aa EVEN you have your speed buffed, from what i heard is midway can't successfully land an attack on DM alone.

And i have said in the original thread too, is HE now properly damaging those aa on the ship?

 

Anyway, on a 170+ ping server i can't even play IJN cv properly so i have only tried the midway and i think it can only attack some ship which is alone on the sea, not much i can elaborate before trying hakuryu on a 30ping server.

I tried to stay calm, but even then, every single cv player i met is really mad about those changes and telling me cv is dead, someone like kavacha is blaming too, you can check, 2k+ midway battles with 70%+ winrate.

I mostly concerned about the highest tier in this essay, but not the mid-tier one since im playing poorly(~50-55%WR) so i decided not to touch on lexing 111 change or langley 111 change, just the planes and aa mechanics alone in the thread and the consequences.

 

That's funny - quite a lot of the CV players I'm talking to are considering the changes as a shift in CV play styles. It's a nerf, yes, but quite a few I've talked with following the PT aren't of the opinion that they've been nerfed to oblivion. IJN CVs, with the new torpedo skill, have a much higher chance of landing more torpedo hits in an attack with their manual drop due to the increased speed of torpedoes, but the lack of change to the arming time means that they can't do the old point-blank drop-and-delete that they used to do, which is a satisfactory change.

 

USN TBs, especially at tier 8-10, are absolute monsters, from what I've seen and heard. They're getting their 1000lb bombs now, which translates to a much higher average damage, and higher tier USN CVs have been shifted to be DB focused instead of relying on TBs. Not to mention that apparently, dive bombers are extremely hard to stop, and even under the CA panic effect, their manual aiming circle is no larger than the auto-drop dispersion.

 

Jets have been removed. No more high speed attacks, but planes should be turning faster. That's one of the primary complaints and one of the reasons why CVs at high tiers are strong: because their planes spend so little time in AA that they just don't get shot down in meaningful numbers.

 
HE fire is still taking out AA mounts as they should.

 

The biggest change is that long range AAA has been boosted significantly - as I stated above, this means CV players can no longer loiter their planes within a cruiser's AAA envelope like they've been doing for the past couple of months. That adds a bit of time pressure and a corresponding skill increase for CV players - they need to know what a CA's AAA range is, and whether or not their Defensive Fire is up or down, and respond accordingly. The entire reason Midways and Essexes were dominating the upper tiers were precisely because their plane HPs were very high and they moved pretty fast, allowing CV captains all the time in the world to set up the best attack runs.

 

Yeah, I'm not surprised primary Midway players are going to be unhappy. It's not going to be as easy to play as it is now. But whether players are unhappy because Midway has been nerfed to the ground, or actually rebalanced considerably without making them useless (and thus harder to play) is a different story. From what I've seen on here, the subreddit, and the NA forums, much of the anger is more of the latter.

Edited by Syanda

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I'm less concerned as to the AA buffs as to the amount of thrice-damned fighter loadouts in game.

 

Fighter loadouts. Sacrificing almost all strike potential in order to troll the crap out of the enemy carrier(s). It's like the video game version of "If I'm going down, I'm taking you with me", except you can actually choose when to do it just to troll people.

 

Could someone legitimately give a reason as to why fighter loadouts even exist? They don't give more rewards, they're annoying to the enemy, and it seems to me that they exist purely to harass the enemy CV player.

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[KGROU]
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That's funny - quite a lot of the CV players I'm talking to are considering the changes as a shift in CV play styles. It's a nerf, yes, but quite a few I've talked with following the PT aren't of the opinion that they've been nerfed to oblivion. IJN CVs, with the new torpedo skill, have a much higher chance of landing more torpedo hits in an attack with their manual drop due to the increased speed of torpedoes, but the lack of change to the arming time means that they can't do the old point-blank drop-and-delete that they used to do, which is a satisfactory change.

 

USN TBs, especially at tier 8-10, are absolute monsters, from what I've seen and heard. They're getting their 1000lb bombs now, which translates to a much higher average damage, and higher tier USN CVs have been shifted to be DB focused instead of relying on TBs. Not to mention that apparently, dive bombers are extremely hard to stop, and even under the CA panic effect, their manual aiming circle is no larger than the auto-drop dispersion.

 

Jets have been removed. No more high speed attacks, but planes should be turning faster. That's one of the primary complaints and one of the reasons why CVs at high tiers are strong: because their planes spend so little time in AA that they just don't get shot down in meaningful numbers.

 
HE fire is still taking out AA mounts as they should.

 

The biggest change is that long range AAA has been boosted significantly - as I stated above, this means CV players can no longer loiter their planes within a cruiser's AAA envelope like they've been doing for the past couple of months. That adds a bit of time pressure and a corresponding skill increase for CV players - they need to know what a CA's AAA range is, and whether or not their Defensive Fire is up or down, and respond accordingly. The entire reason Midways and Essexes were dominating the upper tiers were precisely because their plane HPs were very high and they moved pretty fast, allowing CV captains all the time in the world to set up the best attack runs.

 

Yeah, I'm not surprised primary Midway players are going to be unhappy. It's not going to be as easy to play as it is now. But whether players are unhappy because Midway has been nerfed to the ground, or actually rebalanced considerably without making them useless (and thus harder to play) is a different story. From what I've seen on here, the subreddit, and the NA forums, much of the anger is more of the latter.

Well, can we finish our discussion before you warn me out and I can’t reply? And im lending the others account, please be polite not to do bad things on him. 

Firstly, lets talk about IJN CV in DEPTH, in SEA server, at least for the TW and China community, the IJN CV in higher tier was totally shifted from “doing damage” into “scouting+dd hunting” when or before Mikhail was finally implement into the game, which having an aa stats like the 3/4 DM now, where a midway can’t perform an attack when Mikhail pressed barrage skill.

I can agree that Midway is op before this patch, but not essex, a well played taiho can rekt essex with many different ways(only considering the skill caliber, without counting any other supreme CA air defense like DM), while to midway, table turns, since the rng which included in the plane drop formula, it is very hard to defend a midway attacking squad even with 422 hakuryu, that’s no doubt. However, it is not about the aa value, just the rng itself + USN CV having 6 planes in one squad making the first plane too hard to drop in the current formula. So, what to do next? Obvious one is change the aa formula itself not to that much RNG basis, right?

But what WG is now implementing is, Changing the formula into MORE rng basis since you won’t have the plane drop as if you are lucky enough before, but now it capped to 100% it drop, so the expected value of the planes actual health has been decreased by a great amount, both IJN and USN. Not only that, now WG make a higher aa defense on t10 right? And with the captain skills that improving those single target aa effectiveness, A GOOD COORDINATED(sry for caps I don’t know if you see this) team of ca’s can actually rekt those plane squad with the unbalanced power they have been given in this patch.

I have been always saying GOOD and COORDINATED in my post, since you need to know the extreme situation is, I was having one taiho game i can hardly do 60k damage in a lower skill player game with 4 mikhails, where I have nearly next to no impactful move in that mid-game since the 4 mikhails are actually in the centre of the ships and now every ca turns into the Mikhail-like aa, and without the urge to bring sonar in the first place, you can consider they have upgraded their aa to a certain amount solely from barrage skills+captain skills, even IJN CAs, the CA having worst AA throughout the time(RIP Hindenburg, I forget you since I didn’t see u, missing u)

When you implement those kind of single AA power, do you think of the original job for cv is to killing those ship who is alone, and now, an alone DM can easily destroy the planes, and zao? And Hindenburg? So you want every ca just rekt CV just because they are provided to do so? Or u want CV delayed their first attack? I am very curious about this thus I say I want to know about the path change.
If CV is having no impactful damage like shima’s torp, BB citadel. It turns to be a support-like play style like what ca’s current state is. You didn’t compensate on what the ft can provide, or is the scouting meta now is ok and let players feel they are included in the game?

Be remember, CV doing 80k damage on paper doesn’t mean they do many “impact”, most of them are junk data, if a cv having no impact damage-wise in early to mid-late game, and rely only on their team to do damage for them, why playing CV if you can't control your win in more than 20%(roughly, WG keep nerfing to 95% to maybe 20% in 0.5.2, should be lower) of your high skill caliber game, why taking this RTS very serious and tryhard but not getting the right amount of reward?(even LOL support having better damage than their adcs in early game) 

Yeah I know I shouldn’t compare the other game but now, CV contribution on a win/lose game is not only base on how they played, but including those aa mechanics. When a team having overwhelming aas, CV is next to no impact at all.(alright why midway op is, she can still do things even when those overwhelming aa affecting)

Talking about midway, the first thing I touch is the massive db speed buff + loadout changed, and I was afraid only this change, which buffs midway in a lot of sense. But I found that I am very very wrong since the aa now are exponentially increase through T4-T10 while the planes hp didn’t change at all throughout the tiers. No offense but when you adding that much aa power into the ship, is it better to buff a bit he damage to the aa facilities or increasing the plane health a bit? 

It is quite a joke that hakuryu playing in a 211 or 411 mode and midway playing in 111/211 mode is having more reward, people can now force the cv’s target, make the CV frustrated throughout the game, so many different things that can come up in my brain now that can completely shut down a CV except in the large map 3-point domination mode, which may not be true even if the largest map like LoF now. So why you need to controlling that much of squads? Or maybe just for those FT targeting? Or ca targeting?

And now DD having those aa++++++ buff too that can rekt a shoukaku squad with fubuki b ship(not even an typical aa-dd ship). When it is that hard to attack even a most possible target, (yeah I know deleting dd in 0.5.2 is too easy if the dd captain aren’t skillful), what’s left for CV to impact?

I am very welcome if you know Chinese and wanna discuss further, please come bahamut and I will discuss with u, but in Chinese, since my grammar is too broken in many sense. Sry for the flame stuff but I hope you can really think more in depth before talking about midway/essex is op because of 2 TB squadron, which never a true statement for a cv main player(at least for me).

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Under new AA system, high tier ca can fire whole team of TB and DB in few second just by one CA, ever a RN or JP ca. 

 

So the only target of cv is itself? I have no hope on 0.5.3 cv future.

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[KGHSF]
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 I'm not speak it more because I will be muted again.

 Since I played PT I expected that I could at least 15 or more planes .

SxuCkTU.jpg

rAQMGls.png

 

Yes I felt it too I have a plan for play tier 9 to 10 for Iowa,Yamato and any ships but due credit running low every time caused me quit playing in high tier.

If mid tier supposed to nerf (example Cleveland which I play) it's to be no place for good CL for USN.

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That's funny - quite a lot of the CV players I'm talking to are considering the changes as a shift in CV play styles. It's a nerf, yes, but quite a few I've talked with following the PT aren't of the opinion that they've been nerfed to oblivion. IJN CVs, with the new torpedo skill, have a much higher chance of landing more torpedo hits in an attack with their manual drop due to the increased speed of torpedoes, but the lack of change to the arming time means that they can't do the old point-blank drop-and-delete that they used to do, which is a satisfactory change.

 

USN TBs, especially at tier 8-10, are absolute monsters, from what I've seen and heard. They're getting their 1000lb bombs now, which translates to a much higher average damage, and higher tier USN CVs have been shifted to be DB focused instead of relying on TBs. Not to mention that apparently, dive bombers are extremely hard to stop, and even under the CA panic effect, their manual aiming circle is no larger than the auto-drop dispersion.

 

Jets have been removed. No more high speed attacks, but planes should be turning faster. That's one of the primary complaints and one of the reasons why CVs at high tiers are strong: because their planes spend so little time in AA that they just don't get shot down in meaningful numbers.

 
HE fire is still taking out AA mounts as they should.

 

The biggest change is that long range AAA has been boosted significantly - as I stated above, this means CV players can no longer loiter their planes within a cruiser's AAA envelope like they've been doing for the past couple of months. That adds a bit of time pressure and a corresponding skill increase for CV players - they need to know what a CA's AAA range is, and whether or not their Defensive Fire is up or down, and respond accordingly. The entire reason Midways and Essexes were dominating the upper tiers were precisely because their plane HPs were very high and they moved pretty fast, allowing CV captains all the time in the world to set up the best attack runs.

 

Yeah, I'm not surprised primary Midway players are going to be unhappy. It's not going to be as easy to play as it is now. But whether players are unhappy because Midway has been nerfed to the ground, or actually rebalanced considerably without making them useless (and thus harder to play) is a different story. From what I've seen on here, the subreddit, and the NA forums, much of the anger is more of the latter.

 

I'm a player start playing this game from CBT, and i got a friend is same as me and we always talking about the balance of this game, the ships, and what's the game could be.


Though i quit to playing CVs from patch 0.5, my friend started to play CV few days before patch 0.5 updated. We can discuss on the different views as i play all kind of ships and i think i'm not bad at all, and what our talks come out is mostly same with saki6200 and i don't know why he got warning from the discussion. Maybe her/his view just not same with you?


As the topic is going to the CVs and AAs, let's talk about those things.
First, i need to say i've tested most of the T10's ship in the PT server, and trying to figure out how the new AA system affect to the CVs' planes in 0.5.3patch, please don't say i don't know what's the game is going to be.

 In PT server, I've tried to use a 113 midway to attack a single DM that's no other ships around her 10km square, and the result is amazing, my 3 teams of DB and a team of TB was gone under 10 seconds, and can't duel with a single damage...
Then, maybe you'll say because she's a DM, her AAs are best in the game, then what about the Hindenburg, Mikhail? 
In T8 matches, Mikhail's AA just should not be there, 
And the Hindenburg, in 0.5.3patch, she seems can push the AA Numerical to a hundred...
what the ____ is going on with this patch seriously...


Then the planes speed was buff, but as i said, in the new AA system, if the planes can't going 5 times  faster, they just can't really duel the damage to the opposite side that's playing with you, 
Then you'll say, the planes not just for attacking, but what reward for spotting the enemies? Yeah, it can give your team a message, there's the enemies, then what? Nothing, nothing at all. Winning or losing just got nothing between what you did and the result, just about what your teammate's luck on the RNG maybe? So why CVs need to do so many things and still got nothing reward, or even you need to lose the game or getting nerf again and again till possibly can't play. Seriously why. I just can understand that.


Alright my opinion stops here and let talk about what you've said maybe?
First, you said " IJN CVs, with the new torpedo skill, have a much higher chance of landing more torpedo hits in an attack with their manual drop", oh yes, but the premise is not under attacking but any fighters or AA skills, that nearly not possible in the high tier matches. 
Then, yes, the USN TBs is changing to 1000lb booms, but under the new AA system, any different? I guess nope. What is the meaning of times 1.5 or 2 to a 0? Meaingless.


Then, Jets have been removed, the turning is faster, but what is the point of turning faster in the AA's area? Losing their planes? Or you want us to turn around and go backwards to stay out of the AA skills then attack? Oh come on, if we can't attack at the first time, the enemies will regroup and we can never get a chance again.


Alright, you said the HE fire is still taking out AA mounts as they should, but after how many took out should be before CVs can attack? I don't think just a few times, and it's also not a easy work to taken out those amount of AAs, as i'm a USN DDs player, i also can't take out all of the AAs before a T7 IJN BB is die. So how's this system work to CVs?


Then, i'm sorry i'm not a primary Midway players, or i'm not even a CV player anymore, I just can't look at the dying CVs, and do nothing.
In this update, the most affected CV wasn't USN CVs, is the high tier IJN CVs. Everyone knows IJN CVs' planes don't got much HPs and they formation is 4 in a group. Under the new system of AA, even midway can't hold up with it, what will happen with the IJN CV's? Don't you seriously think that every one comes out is because Midway is being nerf? Come on, please think about it, don't just being an ass, wanring the people who's wanted the game to be good.


Finally, WarGaming, please tell us what you suppost the CVs to be in this game, I just wanna know this. Maybe just a god damn Scout? Then don't give us the TBs and DBs. Or you want us to be a ship that can support our team to duel some damage and Scouting for the front-line, or so-on? I just can't figure out what you want us to be..

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As the topic is going to the CVs and AAs, let's talk about those things.
First, i need to say i've tested most of the T10's ship in the PT server, and trying to figure out how the new AA system affect to the CVs' planes in 0.5.3patch, please don't say i don't know what's the game is going to be.

 In PT server, I've tried to use a 113 midway to attack a single DM that's no other ships around her 10km square, and the result is amazing, my 3 teams of DB and a team of TB was gone under 10 seconds, and can't duel with a single damage...
Then, maybe you'll say because she's a DM, her AAs are best in the game, then what about the Hindenburg, Mikhail? 
In T8 matches, Mikhail's AA just should not be there, 
And the Hindenburg, in 0.5.3patch, she seems can push the AA Numerical to a hundred...
what the ____ is going on with this patch seriously...

 

You attacked an unengaged heavy cruiser from the air. One of the primary roles of the upper tier heavy cruisers is providing Anti-Air. Given the boost to AA, cruisers are now fulfilling their primary role in killing off attack squadrons. I don't really see a gameplay problem here. In fact, if you could sink a cruiser from the air, or deal crippling damage in spite of the fact that cruisers are specifically designed in this game for AA, then there'd be a problem.

 

 Then the planes speed was buff, but as i said, in the new AA system, if the planes can't going 5 times  faster, they just can't really duel the damage to the opposite side that's playing with you, 
Then you'll say, the planes not just for attacking, but what reward for spotting the enemies? Yeah, it can give your team a message, there's the enemies, then what? Nothing, nothing at all. Winning or losing just got nothing between what you did and the result, just about what your teammate's luck on the RNG maybe? So why CVs need to do so many things and still got nothing reward, or even you need to lose the game or getting nerf again and again till possibly can't play. Seriously why. I just can understand that.

 

...

 

 

Then, Jets have been removed, the turning is faster, but what is the point of turning faster in the AA's area? Losing their planes? Or you want us to turn around and go backwards to stay out of the AA skills then attack? Oh come on, if we can't attack at the first time, the enemies will regroup and we can never get a chance again.

 

This is exactly what the speed and turn increase is meant for. It's meant for carrier players to spend as little time as possible in enemy AA, as well as being able to turn away and run disengage when cruisers activate their AA fire. Not running away and getting your planes killed by the AA is the punishment for pressing the attack. If a ship gets detected in firing range by an enemy fleet and chooses to push forward, if they get killed, that's their punishment. Carriers suffer the same punishment now through the loss of their squadrons.

 

Carriers still fulfil a role in scouting. You're quick to dismiss the simple fact that knowing where the enemy main ships are is a massive, massive benefit to your team and structuring your team's decisions. Sure, you don't earn exp from it, and I do agree that needs to be put in. But to imply its pointless and irrelevant to the outcome of a match is just plain wrong.

 

Alright my opinion stops here and let talk about what you've said maybe?
First, you said " IJN CVs, with the new torpedo skill, have a much higher chance of landing more torpedo hits in an attack with their manual drop", oh yes, but the premise is not under attacking but any fighters or AA skills, that nearly not possible in the high tier matches. 
Then, yes, the USN TBs is changing to 1000lb booms, but under the new AA system, any different? I guess nope. What is the meaning of times 1.5 or 2 to a 0? Meaingless.

... 

Alright, you said the HE fire is still taking out AA mounts as they should, but after how many took out should be before CVs can attack? I don't think just a few times, and it's also not a easy work to taken out those amount of AAs, as i'm a USN DDs player, i also can't take out all of the AAs before a T7 IJN BB is die. So how's this system work to CVs?

 

This is where carriers have to play smart. Look for targets that have taken a beating, with low health. Look for targets trying to retreat. Look for targets that are actively engaged with your allied ships and are busy dodging and returning fire, maybe too busy to spot an incoming cloud of planes. Your squadrons can be virtually anywhere and attack from unexpected angles, and chase down ships that are fleeing and trying to break contact from your allied ships. Yeah, sure, it's not easy, but the idea that a carrier can just lock sights on a target ship and sink them under any circumstances points to an imbalance with regards to carriers. 0.5.3 is attempting to fix that.

 

 

Then, i'm sorry i'm not a primary Midway players, or i'm not even a CV player anymore, I just can't look at the dying CVs, and do nothing.
In this update, the most affected CV wasn't USN CVs, is the high tier IJN CVs. Everyone knows IJN CVs' planes don't got much HPs and they formation is 4 in a group. Under the new system of AA, even midway can't hold up with it, what will happen with the IJN CV's? Don't you seriously think that every one comes out is because Midway is being nerf? Come on, please think about it, don't just being an ass, wanring the people who's wanted the game to be good.


Finally, WarGaming, please tell us what you suppost the CVs to be in this game, I just wanna know this. Maybe just a god damn Scout? Then don't give us the TBs and DBs. Or you want us to be a ship that can support our team to duel some damage and Scouting for the front-line, or so-on? I just can't figure out what you want us to be..

 

WarGaming reserves the right to patch and modify the game in order to balance it to the best of their abilities and to the best of their vision of the game. There were hundreds, if not thousands of matches on the Public Test where raw data regarding the changes was both gathered and evaluated. In light of that, they've since decided to go ahead with implementing the changes. I highly suggest adapting and dealing with it. This guy is adapting, maybe you might want to read what he says. So is this guy.

 

No one likes it when their favourite class is nerfed. But to say that this game is dying and that carriers are ruined because of this patch and you just can't stand for it! is overly melodramatic.

Edited by Syanda

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I am a Cruiser and DD man... I refuse to let the CVs die out like this! I don't think they're dead but seeing as how rare I can see this ship type I think they're in the Endangered Species List... I get it how the USN should be more focused on DB while IJN is focused on TB but at least give the USN some AP bombs... Honestly DBs (in my opinion) are currently threatening to DDs and some Cruisers... In my BB I find DBs only as ticklish and rarely worth the attention unless they're obviously spotting ships...

Edited by Kreigg

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I am a Cruiser and DD man... I refuse to let the CVs die out like this! I don't think they're dead but seeing as how rare I can see this ship type I think they're in the Endangered Species List... I get it how the USN should be more focused on DB while IJN is focused on TB but at least give the USN some AP bombs... Honestly DBs (in my opinion) are currently threatening to DDs and some Cruisers... In my BB I find DBs only as ticklish and rarely worth the attention unless they're obviously spotting ships...

 

Higher tier DBs on PT can hit for, what 30kish damage on battleships. And that's not counting the fires.

 

AP bombs aren't put in because getting citadel hits with planes will completely shatter surface vessels. But the new 1000lb bombs are meant to make up for the lack of armour penetration through brute destructive power.

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Higher tier DBs on PT can hit for, what 30kish damage on battleships. And that's not counting the fires.

 

AP bombs aren't put in because getting citadel hits with planes will completely shatter surface vessels. But the new 1000lb bombs are meant to make up for the lack of armour penetration through brute destructive power.

 

Oh... that's good to hear I guess... hmmm thousand pounders (those are gonna sting)... are those available to any CVs with DBs? or are those Tier specific?? Just keeping a look out once the patch takes effect...
Edited by Kreigg

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I waste time about 3 months for  grind to midway because I want to use 122 in midway.

but WG completely change them after I got one.

this is unfair to me and everyone who already use 122  midway.

where is a compensation?

 

Edited by rattananen

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People cry alot when their ships get nerfed... But time will fix everything. Does the number of arties in WOT decrease after the nerf? No... They are still as annoying as they used to be. And carriers? They're just gonna spend a few weeks crying then they would eventually accept it. Just like us - American destroyer/cruiser players. Was it painful after the shell velocity nerf? Yes!... But we have accepted it because crying doesn't help when WG has already made the decision. 

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People cry alot when their ships get nerfed... But time will fix everything. Does the number of arties in WOT decrease after the nerf? No... They are still as annoying as they used to be. And carriers? They're just gonna spend a few weeks crying then they would eventually accept it. Just like us - American destroyer/cruiser players. Was it painful after the shell velocity nerf? Yes!... But we have accepted it because crying doesn't help when WG has already made the decision. 

 

Yea... adapt and overcome :D:D:D

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People cry alot when their ships get nerfed... But time will fix everything. Does the number of arties in WOT decrease after the nerf? No... They are still as annoying as they used to be. And carriers? They're just gonna spend a few weeks crying then they would eventually accept it. Just like us - American destroyer/cruiser players. Was it painful after the shell velocity nerf? Yes!... But we have accepted it because crying doesn't help when WG has already made the decision.

 

 if u say no mean u play WOT after arties nerf accuracy and reload time . number of arty is reduce so much after that patch

buff AA and nerf plane I can accept.

but change loadout for CV . it's completely different with nerf status

it like I bought PC but WG forced me to change PC to tablet

 

Edited by rattananen

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 if u say no mean u play WOT after arties nerf accuracy and reload time . number of arty is reduce so much after that patch

buff AA and nerf plane I can accept. but change loadout for CV it like I bought PC but WG forced me to change PC to tablet

 

I also agree that since its true (and im play WoT alot), when WG nerf some "class" the population of particular class drop drastically.

 

But if that class got nerf what you can do ? change WG decision ? you can't.. adapt and overcome or move over to other class thats what you can do :P

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People cry alot when their ships get nerfed... But time will fix everything. Does the number of arties in WOT decrease after the nerf? No... They are still as annoying as they used to be. And carriers? They're just gonna spend a few weeks crying then they would eventually accept it. Just like us - American destroyer/cruiser players. Was it painful after the shell velocity nerf? Yes!... But we have accepted it because crying doesn't help when WG has already made the decision.

 

To be fair around 0.8.6 a large number of bad arty players quit and switched to TDs only to then get slapped by the remaining good arty players...

Darwinism at it's best.

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I am a CV player starting from the OBT. Not playing so much because I don't have lots of time to play this game.(you can check my battle result on website)

 

In my point of view, the problem of 0.5.3 AA Buff is making CV UNPLAYABLE. Someone says when someone's favourite ship being nerf, they will cry and finally accept. But after the AA Buff, TB and DB will be destoried very very quickly and cannot drop a single bomb or torp., even attacking a CA/BB without AA support. Is this fair to CV players? Is it meaningful for giving TB a speed of torp. buff?

 

Of course I know CA's AA is very powerful and it can destory planes quickly, so I should not let my fighters and bombers get close to them. However, is this meaning that WG can make CA being COMPLETELY safe from CV attack?

 

In WOT, when a light tank vs heavy tank, although heavy tank have good gun and good armor, light tank still have a chance to win using their speed to get HT's side or back and hit their weak point.

 

But after the AA buff, CV can only sending their planes and help your enermy to earn more credits.(don't talk about attack other targets. sometimes you may need to reset)

 

Each time when CV being nerf, I still think it is ok.But this time, it is so serious that CV is unplayable anymore.

 

So, just delete the CV line, WG :)

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Time to say good bye 0.5.2.4. This is last time I see the best air planes those I glad of. Banshee,Skyshark and Destroyer

Bxo88zO.jpg

SkysharkDestroyer

Banshee

 

make a slideshow showing some midway powaa, sinking Iowas in a single run and drinking their salty sap called tears then strap in this music for the future generations to remember the greatness and elegance midway once had, and for the oldies to come back to and feel nostalgic whilst crying.

 

Goodbye, midway.
Goodbye, essex.

We had great time

 

 

USN CV is pretty much dead but IJN CVs pretty much lives on OP as ever. played shokaku recently and dropping 5-7 torp hits / wave killing pretty much tier 7 battleship or less in a single run.

WG never disappoints when it comes to disappointing.

 

WoWS still remains a good casual game to come back, from time to time, and get some nostalgia trip for few games but not something worth paying real money for mind you new players.

 

 

Edited by Deicide

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