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Danaussie

Something Needs To Be Done About OP Destroyers

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2,722 battles

First of all I don't complain, the game of WoWs is perfect in all respects and since I started playing about 6 months ago I have thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of it. I hear many guys talk about OP this and OP that but I have never heard them talk about Destroyers abilities tipping the balance in a battle. Time and time again I see OP Destroyers being the difference in a battle that has been all but won by a team.

 

I would not change the game in any way save this:

 

Destroyers should NEVER be invisible at ranges of less than 5 miles unless they pop smoke, this is probably the most unrealistic thing I have come across in WoWs. You cant mean to tell me that a Destroyer that has already been spotted by a ship and targeted by a cruiser with 300 hands can suddenly disappear before their very eyes at 5 miles and then launch its torpedoes without being detected. This must stop, its unfair and unrealistic. These Destroyers are exploiting this ability and literally taking up station in Base Areas and taking the Base Capture unopposed, from ranges where my crew could literally spit on the opposing Destroyers crew.


 

Popping smoke is fine, but without is absolutely ridiculous, you need to understand how Naval Camouflage actually works guys and you can not hide a naval vessel with camouflage in open water. It was designed for misidentification and to make them harder to hit by hiding their edges, and shadowing important parts, it was never designed to make them completely invisible. Please change this its an absolute joke.


 

Dan

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Beta Tester
1,825 posts
5,155 battles

Is this game a simulator? No... Don't ask a game to be realistic. That's why you must never get too close to a destroyer. If you let a DD get that close to you then it is your fault. DDs are not OP, it's just you, the player who doesn't know how to counter these DDs.

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ST Coordinator
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@OP, it would be better to play a destroyer, and see if you can get within 5km of any ship without the use of smoke, not counting if you are hiding behind an island.

 

There is no destroyer that can get within 5km of another enemy ship in open (clear light of sight) waters without getting spotted without using smoke.

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[SIF]
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No DD has that type of concealment, all of them can be seen prior to 5k's, however, smoke can not be seen properly if close to it, and that will cause DD's to pop in and out of view.

 

Smoke rendering needs to be looked, and made more visible.

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Super Tester
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5 miles...? Kilometers?

There are no DDs with such a high concealment.

 

And yes, DDs are unfair and OP.  :popcorn:

 

It's possible, slap in on the destroyers with camo paint, concealment equipment, & concealment skill.

 

But the good thing is it's only for most JP & some US destroyers, especially those who have long range torps. Soviet Destroyers play differently anyway, and maybe the German Narvik-class destroyer with 15cm (150mm) gun as well.

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Beta Tester
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Try playing a DD while keeping your left mouse button down. Now try to not get hit and die within the first five minutes and not being behind an island.

 

That is what you wanted it to be like.

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as a regular tier ten player,

i'll tell you something that once you see it you can't unsee it.

 

 

when a tier 10 game starts, see which team has the most shimakazes,

 

that team will win. period. end of story..

 

a ship which can remain concealed for the entire game and can cover the whole map with 

fast moving long range torps.

everytime i hear people complain about the Yamato it's 

very irritating. because the shima isn't big and noisy they're not afraid of it,

but they obviously don't check results. shimas can clear a map,

they're the main reason my yamato won't go out much anymore.

i don't want to lose 350k to spamknobs in invisible death ships. it's a joke.

now with slow rudder shift you're just a floating target.

 

and why have people started throwing out that "realistic" strawman??

it's tiresome and evasive and argumentative,

we're talking about a ship being OP [via ridiculous concealment powers].

people on this forum just love a good wind-up don't they??,

 

we have 2 DD players here agreeing with us 

but we still have people throwing childish ridicule as if it didn't happen

Edited by fuzzjunky

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Because I'm a lousy IJN DD player (doesn't have the patient nor foresight), so I played USN DD. Whenever there's a meeting chance, I hunt DD for sports in my cruiser.

Ask any IJN DD and/or to some extend USN/Soviet DD why they hate me :trollface:

 

I see you're a naval history buff. I am interested in all forms of warfare and history, so I'm not specialized nor the very well informed.

Unfortunately for you, WoWS can't ever be the realistic naval warfare online game you may have hope it could be.

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as a regular tier ten player,

i'll tell you something that once you see it you can't unsee it.

 

 

when a tier 10 game starts, see which team has the most shimakazes,

 

that team will win. period. end of story..

 

a ship which can remain concealed for the entire game and can cover the whole map with 

fast moving long range torps.

everytime i hear people complain about the Yamato it's 

very irritating. because the shima isn't big and noisy they're not afraid of it,

but they obviously don't check results. shimas can clear a map,

they're the main reason my yamato won't go out much anymore.

i don't want to lose 350k to spamknobs in invisible death ships. it's a joke.

now with slow rudder shift you're just a floating target.

 

and why have people started throwing out that "realistic" strawman??

it's tiresome and evasive and argumentative,

we're talking about a ship being OP [via ridiculous concealment powers].

people on this forum just love a good wind-up don't they??,

 

we have 2 DD players here agreeing with us 

but we still have people throwing childish ridicule as if it didn't happen

 

Ridicule defending what? a valid game mechanic used to make destroyers viable? without that mechanic you may as well remove them from the game

Edited by Apex1o1

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[TF44]
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8,261 battles

Many valid points have been made in the discussions above. To save the pedantic people the hassle, I generally play CL/CA (69%). I do play DD (9%) and continue to upgrade the one DD I keep in my fleet.

I am going to ignore the focus on measurement units (why isn't every thing in nautical miles as per international use) which has been used as a simplistic diversion away from the topic raised. Similarly, the facile conflict between DD and CL/CA Captains does not address the topic. The realism versus viable argument is an ongoing debate that will continue ad nausea and its use in this topic has simply been a distraction.

Given WoWS is a game for recreation and fun the issue becomes how close should a DD or any type of ship be detected. I think the present standard is too close. My opinion is it should be 4km (2.16 nm or 2.5 mi) to give all combatants an equal chance to respond to torpedo launches or gunfire.

Edited by Taipan17

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DD concealment are OP???

than, the gun that can cripple & kill DD in 2-3 salvo also OP kay?

their torpedoes are harmless if you keep maneuvering and stay behind CA line so they can spot torp for you

 

when I play BB,

main reason why I got hit by torp is I'm too focus on shooting at enemy, forget to constantly check minimap and drive myself into risk area

 

P.S.

DD that have detectability less than 5 k.m. is possible with commander with full stealth skill

"umikaze" with 4.9 km detectability range

 

ichaes drive her into tier 10 battle and she and wrack tier 10 BB like playing with baby

 

... i say again, tier 2 DD are toy with tier 10 BB,

 

look at 21:44 min

damage per torp is a lot weaker than that of shimakaze,

but with constantly flood and wave of torp every 20 second is true terror

 

 

Edited by PGM991

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Alpha Tester
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This is WG, remember, who brought us Ferdinands firing 128mm guns in an open field, only to vanish when their crew draped a camo net over their building vehicle and reloading at the same time plus possibly repairing their tracks. Versatile, aren't they?

 

If you're expecting anything to be realistic other than the models you've come to the wrong place.

 

As others have said, the only real question is balance and the game that balance produces.

 

If you find the mechanics impossible to tolerate, stop playing. It's why I did, and also why I don't bother to argue why xyz mechanic is dopey/bad because most people here won't listen even IF there is a good game balance argument behind it. I make that as a general comment, not specifically about DD detection ranges.

Edited by Steeltrap

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P.S.

DD that have detectability less than 5 k.m. is possible with commander with full stealth skill

"umikaze" with 4.9 km detectability range

 

ichaes drive her into tier 10 battle and she and wrack tier 10 BB like playing with baby

 

... i say again, tier 2 DD are toy with tier 10 BB,

 

look at 21:44 min

damage per torp is a lot weaker than that of shimakaze,

but with constantly flood and wave of torp every 20 second is true terror

 

 

 

Is there any other type of Tier 2 ship that could compete in a tier 10 match?

 

The simply answer is no - Hence DDs are a little OP (admitedly I sold my Minekaze, cause I wanted to buy the NC, When I have finished the credit grind for the Iowa, I might re-buy the Mutsuki)

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Well, you can launch planes or use your bloody sonar to spot the DDs and the torps. WG gave you everything to allow you to avoid be hit by torps. If you still eat one, bad luck or improve your skills. Or criss cross, where nothing can be done

 

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Well, you can launch planes or use your bloody sonar to spot the DDs and the torps. WG gave you everything to allow you to avoid be hit by torps. If you still eat one, bad luck or improve your skills. Or criss cross, where nothing can be done

 

 

On all my BBs - I use the aircraft - but the spotting range is terrible and for the most part - while it is circling above me, the DD will pop into view for about 5 seconds - at which time I am trying to turn my guns to fire a salvo, and just as I'm about to unload Steel Death *Blink* its gone again.

 

If I had the ability to control the Aircraft - or at least designate an area, then it wouldn't be so bad - but again as above - if a Tier 2 DD can go into a Tier 10 match and do well, it shows that clearly, there are game mechanics that are fundamentally broken to the point where someone can exploit it to this degree. No other Tier 2 ship could enter a Tier 10 match and not get anything but insta-sunk.

Edited by TheDemonLord666

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I play IJN destroyers half the time and I have no complaints about the stealth in destroyers... USN and Soviet destroyers can only use stealth to conceal their movements and lose it by the time they attack, IJN Destroyers don't but they can't defend themselves once spotted... All three have lousy health and protection even against their own class...

 

That's what they do and that's part of the game... Deal with it! I get sunk from time to time against DDs and I'm fine with it..

 

3 Things you can do tho...

1. Don't straightline it, you'll make my job easier

2. Planes make my life a living hell, that include catapult fighters...

3. One cruiser? that's fine, two cruisers? I'm outta there...

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Im sorry guys my intention was in no way to start a flame war, the guys that know me best know I would never do such a thing intentionally. I just played yet another game that was won by a DD capping a zone while being completely invisible at close range after being spotted and shot at on numerous occasions, time runs out, and the opposing team wins the game in spite of heavy allied presence.

 

I have some guys here telling me Im not playing right to approach the destroyer, but I have little choice but to close range and hope to see the destroyer to fire on him. There was no smoke in the zone he had already popped that as I was approaching and had since dissipated, he pops up again I fire, I hit, he then disappears again before my very eyes, changes course (as he should) pops up again I fire, I miss, he disappears again. He successfully Caps the zone we lose. You guys tell me if this is fair?


 

As far as this is concerned, in this situation or scenario there is no way the Destroyer should be able to save himself, save movement, he has already played his card of concealment by using his smoke screen, it dissipates, he should be able to be seen now even at 6 miles, 7 miles even 10 miles. I mean forget realism for a sec and lets just use common sense, a ship full of crew that have been hunting this destroyer for the past 10 minutes should not have to face "Stealth" technology or the Philadelphia Experiment, some of you guys are suggesting that a paint job would render a ship invisible.


 

What I am suggesting is a "Contact Law" once the unit has been targeted and spotted within the range of the unit that is spotting it, it should no longer have the power to conceal itself without the use of a smoke screen. This makes it harder for the player to simply disappear, he must use his smoke wisely, in other words he must use his consumables wisely like the rest of us. At the moment a Destroyer seems to have the powers of a smoke screen without having a smoke screen.


 

Either way I will continue to play WoWs, Im making more of a suggestion than a complaint really, but until something is sorted in this respect Destroyers will continue to be able to Cap and Torp with impunity all surface units are "meat for the beast", destroyers have an unfair advantage and nobody else has this power...why?


 

Ridicule me if you want to but most players would say that this is an unfair advantage.


 

Dan

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Well, I've also played DDs a fair bit, but have to agree they feel OP to me.

 

I also find the whole invisi-fire from smoke a bit silly.  I guess it's there for the gun-boats to compensate for their lousy torps, but to see a Russian DD gun down a cruiser from within smoke with little prospect of being shot back at seems broken.

 

At least with the invis-torps the target has a good prospect of dodging them, making them a minor irritation unless you are totally overloaded.

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Beta Tester
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Im sorry guys my intention was in no way to start a flame war, the guys that know me best know I would never do such a thing intentionally. I just played yet another game that was won by a DD capping a zone while being completely invisible at close range after being spotted and shot at on numerous occasions, time runs out, and the opposing team wins the game in spite of heavy allied presence.

 

I have some guys here telling me Im not playing right to approach the destroyer, but I have little choice but to close range and hope to see the destroyer to fire on him. There was no smoke in the zone he had already popped that as I was approaching and had since dissipated, he pops up again I fire, I hit, he then disappears again before my very eyes, changes course (as he should) pops up again I fire, I miss, he disappears again. He successfully Caps the zone we lose. You guys tell me if this is fair?

 

 

As far as this is concerned, in this situation or scenario there is no way the Destroyer should be able to save himself, save movement, he has already played his card of concealment by using his smoke screen, it dissipates, he should be able to be seen now even at 6 miles, 7 miles even 10 miles. I mean forget realism for a sec and lets just use common sense, a ship full of crew that have been hunting this destroyer for the past 10 minutes should not have to face "Stealth" technology or the Philadelphia Experiment, some of you guys are suggesting that a paint job would render a ship invisible.

 

 

What I am suggesting is a "Contact Law" once the unit has been targeted and spotted within the range of the unit that is spotting it, it should no longer have the power to conceal itself without the use of a smoke screen. This makes it harder for the player to simply disappear, he must use his smoke wisely, in other words he must use his consumables wisely like the rest of us. At the moment a Destroyer seems to have the powers of a smoke screen without having a smoke screen.

 

 

Either way I will continue to play WoWs, Im making more of a suggestion than a complaint really, but until something is sorted in this respect Destroyers will continue to be able to Cap and Torp with impunity all surface units are "meat for the beast", destroyers have an unfair advantage and nobody else has this power...why?

 

 

Ridicule me if you want to but most players would say that this is an unfair advantage.

 

 

Dan

 

I know your intention dan and i know you dont really want this thread to go this way...

 

Anyways there no turning back from now on.. good luck 

 

Melon

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