Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
KillStealz

Rename to World of Battleships & Destroyers

18 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[SGC]
Member
93 posts
6,371 battles

Having real issues seeing the balance in the game right now.

 

The only two classes I see a role for now are Battleships and Destroyers and maybe Aircraft Carriers.

 

Battleships: Highest Damage, Most Armor, Highest Range, Accurate, only approx. 5 knots slower than cruisers, not the most manoeuvrable but who cares when you can fire 20km+.

Destroyers: Highest Speed, Spotters, HE Spammers, Specialist Roles (ie IJN torps, Rus Guns & USN all-rounder).

Aircraft Carriers: Air Control, Bombers, Torps..

Cruisers: ??? Anti-Air, DD Hunter maybe, but as soon as a destroyer gets spotted, he just pops smoke and if you charge to get within detection range it’s basically gg from Battleships. Even from the other side of the map. And hardly see any Carriers anymore since the nerf, in general they are less threatening and if you do come up against one its always matched by another carrier because of MM... so who needs more AA.

 

From what I understood…

  • Battleships suppose to counter other Battleships and Cruisers?
  • Destroyers suppose to counter Battleships?
  • Aircraft Carrier counter other Carriers and Battleships?
  • Cruisers suppose to dominate Destroyers and Anti Air?? I just don’t see it, especially since nobody really plays Aircraft Carrier much anymore.

 

Battleships seem too accurate, have too longer range (this is their main issue, they should be made to engage in the battle rather than just being able to snipe the whole match), and have too higher penetration/citadel too often (second issue). In fact why have citadel hits at all… whats wrong with low, medium & heavy damage hits.. or lower pen and make their damage over 15km+ subpar.

 

Too often I’m in my cruiser and a battleship from 15kms+ away will citadel me, even when I’m completely bow or stern on to him, just doesn’t seem balanced or even worth playing a cruiser. Some cruiser lines are worse than others.. i.e German Paper Armor.

 

Why would you bring a cruiser to a battle over a Battleship? If it’s for Anti DD then other DD’s do that just fine or even better... Feels like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

 

And when it comes to Destroyers, the torp spam at higher tiers seems crazy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
575 posts
5,354 battles

That's because the current meta for this game is set that any ship can sink any ship regardless if it is possible or not. That's why DDs are commonly referred to as the 'counter' to a battleship. Which in reality is far from factual. But this is an 'arcade' game and DDs have to be viable so they are given the power of invisibility to make attacks on BBs with impunity from 5km or more in magical smoke spamming their invisible torpedoes that don't show up until 2km away moving at 55+ knots knowing a BB cannot get out of the way since they nerfed the rudder shift time to make it easier for the torpedo spamming DD players to hit easier.

 

This is why it is as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
760 posts
6,922 battles

Not quite the problem OP, almost the opposite for us DD players

 

Problem at higher tiers is the lack of opposition for Battleships (Yamato defs OP) and the DD's being helpless when facing carriers at high tiers as carriers can simply park fighters over them and they are preety much removed from the game as a useful component. Cruisers are the most popular according to stats for a reason - they are the most balanced class and can take on anything and are immune to carriers with their rather OP bombard ability

 

Conversely Carriers are also rarer in all tiers compared to old days and the lack of them slows gameplay dramatically, as people can play peekaboo tactics reversing and doing static things that would normally be punished by carriers (try park a Yamato in a corner and it will be immune to all attacks)

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
1,637 posts
7,230 battles

But how does this explain the enormous amount of cruisers waiting in queue for battle?

If, as you say, they were no good, people would quickly stop playing them.

 

Being a DD player, I hate cruisers. Good maneuverability, nice reload times. When they stick together (which they should) ,undefeatable.

BBs are easy game for DDs- but only when their cruiser escorts have distanced themselves.

 

Played correctly, cruisers rule the roost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
4 posts
897 battles

Quote : Too often I’m in my cruiser and a battleship from 15kms+ away will citadel me, even when I’m completely bow or stern on to him, just doesn’t seem balanced or even worth playing a cruiser. Some cruiser lines are worse than others.. i.e German Paper Armor.

 

You need to press them A D keys. Yes some BB players will hit and cit you from long range (plunge fire through the deck and not the armor). but at range the shells have a long flight time and can be put off so they miss if you just keep random turning. I have been burnt down by Cruisers in my BB's and on the other hand have done the same to BB's. With any ship you need to learn the role/strengths/weaknesses of not only the class of ship but the actual ship. IE isokase plays a hell of a lot different than the minakaze.

 

All ships in the right hands and situation can beat most anything else. Situational awareness is the hardest thing to learn and needs continual thought

 

Edited by Belgord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1 post
1,779 battles

Having real issues seeing the balance in the game right now.

 

The only two classes I see a role for now are Battleships and Destroyers and maybe Aircraft Carriers.

 

Battleships: Highest Damage, Most Armor, Highest Range, Accurate, only approx. 5 knots slower than cruisers, not the most manoeuvrable but who cares when you can fire 20km+.

Destroyers: Highest Speed, Spotters, HE Spammers, Specialist Roles (ie IJN torps, Rus Guns & USN all-rounder).

Aircraft Carriers: Air Control, Bombers, Torps..

Cruisers: ??? Anti-Air, DD Hunter maybe, but as soon as a destroyer gets spotted, he just pops smoke and if you charge to get within detection range it’s basically gg from Battleships. Even from the other side of the map. And hardly see any Carriers anymore since the nerf, in general they are less threatening and if you do come up against one its always matched by another carrier because of MM... so who needs more AA.

 

From what I understood…

  • Battleships suppose to counter other Battleships and Cruisers?
  • Destroyers suppose to counter Battleships?
  • Aircraft Carrier counter other Carriers and Battleships?
  • Cruisers suppose to dominate Destroyers and Anti Air?? I just don’t see it, especially since nobody really plays Aircraft Carrier much anymore.

 

Battleships seem too accurate, have too longer range (this is their main issue, they should be made to engage in the battle rather than just being able to snipe the whole match), and have too higher penetration/citadel too often (second issue). In fact why have citadel hits at all… whats wrong with low, medium & heavy damage hits.. or lower pen and make their damage over 15km+ subpar.

 

Too often I’m in my cruiser and a battleship from 15kms+ away will citadel me, even when I’m completely bow or stern on to him, just doesn’t seem balanced or even worth playing a cruiser. Some cruiser lines are worse than others.. i.e German Paper Armor.

 

Why would you bring a cruiser to a battle over a Battleship? If it’s for Anti DD then other DD’s do that just fine or even better... Feels like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

 

And when it comes to Destroyers, the torp spam at higher tiers seems crazy. 

 

Not trying to start anything, but BB's are long range encounter ships, they dont facehug or spam like DD's and Cruisers, and of course they have the highest damage ,their gun calibre for one is why they are the highest damage dealers.  I was in a game with you couple of days ago and you were using some german cruiser, german cruisers are terrible for armour so expect to be penetrated by anything. Thats all :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SGC]
Member
93 posts
6,371 battles

Not quite the problem OP, almost the opposite for us DD players

 

Problem at higher tiers is the lack of opposition for Battleships (Yamato defs OP) and the DD's being helpless when facing carriers at high tiers as carriers can simply park fighters over them and they are preety much removed from the game as a useful component. Cruisers are the most popular according to stats for a reason - they are the most balanced class and can take on anything and are immune to carriers with their rather OP bombard ability

 

Conversely Carriers are also rarer in all tiers compared to old days and the lack of them slows gameplay dramatically, as people can play peekaboo tactics reversing and doing static things that would normally be punished by carriers (try park a Yamato in a corner and it will be immune to all attacks)

 

 

 

 

This.

 

The randomness he's talking about.

 

I've been playing IJN Cruisers mainly... and ofc i use A & D... i armor angle... i do everything i possibly can to mitigate damage while keeping my own damage up, i choose carefully when to push & when to retreat. But some games you can be spotted early and due to the randomness get head shot from 20+kms... and watching that replay of iChase his Nagato firing 20Kms with a shell travel time of 12 seconds... is this enough time to always react to a volley you don't see fired?

 

I just think at that range (15kms+) pen should be lowered.

 

Another example, today in my Myoko we were winning a flank and i was pushing into a Colarado... he was 15+ kms and i was bow on and only exposing my side for rear turrents when his guns were reloading (as you do), and yes i was doing a random wiggle a bit to make his aiming harder. I was full HP, he fires one spread at me... boom 2-3 Citadel hits. I'm left on 10% HP and its gg for me in the next salvo.

 

How is that randomness in the game even fun??

 

 

Edited by KillStealz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
509 posts

But how does this explain the enormous amount of cruisers waiting in queue for battle?

If, as you say, they were no good, people would quickly stop playing them.

 

Being a DD player, I hate cruisers. Good maneuverability, nice reload times. When they stick together (which they should) ,undefeatable.

BBs are easy game for DDs- but only when their cruiser escorts have distanced themselves.

 

Played correctly, cruisers rule the roost.

 

Thats related to the ARP kill 50 cruisers and 50 destroyer missions. Tons of cruisers flooding in to farm kills. I dont really like kill missions for this reason as it forces bad gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
760 posts
6,922 battles

 

This.

 

The randomness he's talking about.

 

I've been playing IJN Cruisers mainly... and ofc i use A & D... i armor angle... i do everything i possibly can to mitigate damage while keeping my own damage up, i choose carefully when to push & when to retreat. But some games you can be spotted early and due to the randomness get head shot from 20+kms... and watching that replay of iChase his Nagato firing 20Kms with a shell travel time of 12 seconds... is this enough time to always react to a volley you don't see fired?

 

I just think at that range (15kms+) pen should be lowered.

 

Another example, today in my Myoko we were winning a flank and i was pushing into a Colarado... he was 15+ kms and i was bow on and only exposing my side for rear turrents when his guns were reloading (as you do), and yes i was doing a random wiggle a bit to make his aiming harder. I was full HP, he fires one spread at me... boom 2-3 Citadel hits. I'm left on 10% HP and its gg for me in the next salvo.

 

How is that randomness in the game even fun??

 

 

 

which is why esports is kinda a bad idea, and Wg are proposing this game is worth pushing it as a PvP big esport despite the RNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
23 posts

Personally, I enjoy playing cruiser the most, especially IJN cruiser because good gun, good maneuverability, stealthy, and torps.

 

Battleships have longer range, larger caliber gun, heavier armor, and higher hp than any other class, but suffer in maneuverability and longer repair cooldown which make them very

vulnerable to fire and flood.

 

Cruisers are average in every aspect which make them a multirole ship. They can quickly attack or defend base, hunt destroyers, support ally, and scout. When dealing with battleships, just light them on fire and most importantly, angle your ship, do not broadside a battleship. If you're dealing with destroyers, always be cautious of torps.Destroyers are no match for cruisers in every aspect except maneuverability, just don't get hit by torp and you'll be able to kill destroyer easily. 

 

Destroyers are lowest on every aspect except maneuverability and stealth. They can easily hunt battleships and carriers, light enemy on fire, but cruisers are destroyers' nightmare. if you're spotted by cruisers, quickly hide.

 

For carriers, well, destroy enemy fleet while not letting ally fleet get destroyed by enemy plane and scout.

 

From what OP understood,

Yes, battleships are suppose to deal with other battleships and cruisers not destroyers because they're too quick and battleships have long reload time, but if destroyers are close, make them priority target, battleships' main gun will easily hit destroyers at close range ( if you're accrurate ) or else they will torp you to death.

 

Destroyers are suppose to scout too, torps are for surprise attack, even battleships can easily evade torps if they are aware of torps.

Destroyers can't win a gun fight against anything other than destroyers themselves.

 

Aircraft carriers need to scout too, you can tell which side is going to win ( most of the time ) if one side's carrier keeps spot destroyers and get them killed while another don't. Think about a situation while you can't see enemy but they just keep shooting at you.

 

For cruisers, they don't necessary need to provide air cover and hunt destroyers, they are excellent support ship. A good support cruiser can deal even more damage than battleship and keep ally safe from enemy destroyers and bombers. Just don't yolo with cruisers. ( Don't yolo regardless of any class of ship. )

 

Lastly, for all class of ship,

Don't hesitate to withdraw, sometimes it's not called "coward", but it's called "tactical retreat." Stay alive and deal damage, don't care about kill count, when time comes, you'll get a kill. 

 

Focus fire, the less ship, the less rounds are going to say hello to your citadel.

 

Never fight alone in a naval warfare, this is not COD or BF.

Teamwork > Yolo solo warriors who think they're the best player in the game.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Video Contributor
860 posts
10,965 battles

 

This.

 

The randomness he's talking about.

 

I've been playing IJN Cruisers mainly... and ofc i use A & D... i armor angle... i do everything i possibly can to mitigate damage while keeping my own damage up, i choose carefully when to push & when to retreat. But some games you can be spotted early and due to the randomness get head shot from 20+kms... and watching that replay of iChase his Nagato firing 20Kms with a shell travel time of 12 seconds... is this enough time to always react to a volley you don't see fired?

 

I just think at that range (15kms+) pen should be lowered.

 

Another example, today in my Myoko we were winning a flank and i was pushing into a Colarado... he was 15+ kms and i was bow on and only exposing my side for rear turrents when his guns were reloading (as you do), and yes i was doing a random wiggle a bit to make his aiming harder. I was full HP, he fires one spread at me... boom 2-3 Citadel hits. I'm left on 10% HP and its gg for me in the next salvo.

 

How is that randomness in the game even fun??

 

 

 

Cruisers wasn't designed to tank BB shells regardless of how good its armour or how its angled..
That Colorado who citpenned you from 15+ KM away even with you wiggling left and right its either his Luck and/or Skill.

The only 'random' things in this game are shot dispersion and Ammo Racked (Detonation) mechanic.. 

 

If he's skilled and managed to control his dispersion then he just nullify one of the random aspect that matter.. 

That, or simply because he nailed a one in a million shot and you just happened to be the receiving end of it..

 

Also, regarding to randomness,

 

and ofc i use A & D

 

May i suggest you to add 2 more buttons into the mix? Both are W & S, and i'll demonstrate it with a short clip below from my recent match using T10 Hindenburg:

 

 

It is entirely possible to evade continuous salvo of BB shells from 12km away on a Hindenburg, which has the worst maneuverability of all the cruisers in the game, by being random

Being random/unpredictable is the best way to avoid damage from BB shells..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
248 posts

well, as a battleship fulltime player

i'm suggesting it's world of destroyers then.

i been getting killed all weekend by destroyers that seem to be able to remain invisible the entire game.

it's probably the most annoying deature in a game i've ever encountered in over 20 years of playing games.

 

so i'm grinding a destroyer up now.

if we can have magical ridiculous powers then i want them too.

 

world of destroyers it is.

 

people complain about the Yamato being Op,

my god when are we going to discuss the ridiculous shimakaze??

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
575 posts
5,354 battles

really? i mean... when I'm waiting for MM, number of CA in queue line are far exceeding any class of ship.

 

Yup, that is true. I was in a tier X battle where it was all Cruisers with 4 DDs on each side. It was nothing but wall to wall walls of torpedoes and HE raining from heaven. It was over in under 13 minutes IIRC. Luckily, my team won that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
982 posts

 

Thats related to the ARP kill 50 cruisers and 50 destroyer missions. Tons of cruisers flooding in to farm kills. I dont really like kill missions for this reason as it forces bad gameplay.

 

Only 28 more days of ARP..... :sceptic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
178 posts
2,306 battles

I remember seeing a lot of 3 CV 3 BB 4X CA 4 DD in queue. Talk about skewed balance. 

 

Regarding the ARP missions, I did the bulk of them in my IJN DD. If you play often enough you don't need to play a certain class just to get missions done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×