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Why the Warspite is the Yamato of tier 6s.

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14.3

Remember this magic number during this thread.

 

I have myself a Warspite, and tested the Yamato on multiple occasions every now and then.

 

Now for those who played WoT would know what overmatch is. In WoT, if your shell calibre is more than 3x the thickness if your enemy armor, you will always pen.

For example, a JPE-100 with AP will always penetrate a AMX 13 90

 

In World of Warships, if your shell calibre is more than 14.3x than the enemy's thickness, it will always pen.

However you dont really notice overmatch because of overpenetrations, usually a shell that size compared to an armor that thin would overpen and deal 10% damage i.e. DDs and CLs.

 

However, on battleships this is different.

 

Yamato's main guns are 460mm, tier 9 and tier 10BBs have a bow armor of 32mm.

This means than the Yamato will ALWAYS penetrate your bow armor, no matter the angle. And then proceeds to citadel you.

Thats why the Yamato is so OP because angling against her makes no difference. In fact, its worse to angle against her because she can citadel you frontally.

 

But hold up, why does the Warspite have to do with this?

Warspite guns are 381mm.

New Mexicos and Fuso's guns are 356mm.

 

The bow armor of tier 5 and 6 battleships are 25mm thick.

2uj46kz.png

qsk1ar.png

 

Even the mighty Nagato is not safe from Warspite's power.

2nlhdv7.png

 

25mm x 14.3 = 357.5.

This means to overmatch the bow armor of a tier 6 BB, you need a calibre of 357.5mm or above. In which ONLY the Warspite has.

This also explains why Tier 7 BBs and their 16" guns kill Tier 6 BBs very easily.

 

tl;dr, Warspite overmatches the Bow of NM, Fuso is a 50% chance due to the 102mm sides,

Dont angle your front towards the Warspite.

 

This is what makes the Warspite the best tier 6 BB IMO.

 

Royal Navy OP

Edited by Deathskyz

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What about the Warspite armour itself? Can it bounce its own shell from bow on?

 

Nope. All Tier 6 BBs have 25mm Bow.

 

2ecdc7a.png

 

But part of the sides, like the Fuso, cant be overmatched.

 

I think fuso is better

- better range

- better dispersion

- more 2 turrets

- faster turret rotate

 

Fuso definitely does not have better dispersion. Warspite has the best accuracy of all BBs in the game.

Warspite guns hit harder, the extra 2 turrets in the PQ position actually increases the citadel size as well.

 

Edited by Deathskyz

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I don't really have an issue with warspites guns doing better than the other T6's, after all they are bigger and known to be better. But I have to say it doesn't make the Warspite invincible the same way the yamato is rumoured to be (I've not played that far up the tree). I've not sailed the warspite, but have come up against her in battle, and whilst she can hurt you badly (like any BB) you do have options to fight back.

 

Also she's a pretty rare ship to see in game, so it isn't as big a deal as yamato which seems to be very common.

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i'm not sure there is any situation in which a shell "WILL ALWAYS PEN" even when angled,

It can only work, if you're calculating on flat armour thickness. [perpendicular]

when angling you actually increse the thickness of the armour. 

that's why tanks never have flat sides now,

 

so armour that is 100 mm thick will be approx 150mm thick at a 45 degree angle,

at a 5 degree angle it will be about 250mm thick. 

at a 1 degree angle it will be about ONE METRE THICK.

 

there is no "always" with ballistics.

 

there is some maths on this wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour

 

but the warspite is a good ship. for sure

Edited by fuzzjunky

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i'm not sure there is any situation in which a shell "WILL ALWAYS PEN" even when angled,

It can only work, if you're calculating on flat armour thickness. [perpendicular]

when angling you actually increse the thickness of the armour. 

that's why tanks never have flat sides now,

 

so armour that is 100 mm thick will be approx 150mm thick at a 45 degree angle,

at a 5 degree angle it will be about 250mm thick. 

at a 1 degree angle it will be about ONE METRE THICK.

 

there is no "always" with ballistics.

 

there is some maths on this wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour

 

but the warspite is a good ship. for sure

 

Overmatch trumps angle.

For example, a JPE-100 with AP will always penetrate a AMX 13 90 no matter the angle.

In World of Warships, if your shell calibre is more than 14.3x than the enemy's thickness, it will always pen.

Edited by Deathskyz

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View PostDeathskyz, on 26 January 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

For example, a JPE-100 with AP will always penetrate a AMX 13 90 no matter the angle.

 

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so are you goiong to explain this phenomonon 

or are you just going to be a smarmy pratt ?

 

some of us have lives and don't study video game physics all day

 

 

like who on earth would understand a comment like this,

"a JPE-100 with AP will always penetrate a AMX 13 90 no matter the angle."

 

i mean what planet do you live on, where you use these terms without explanation?

and what sort of people do you usually talk to that would understand it?

 

in the real world, with angled armour, say 1 degree,

there is very little chance of a shell penetrating,

no matter what the shell or the armour is. 

the shape of the shell won't even allow it.

 

 

you have suggest that in this game, the shell will always penetrate, NO MATTER WHAT,

 

so please don't go off on some make belief tangent,

i want you to explain to me how a shell penetrates in this game

at a 1 degree angle,

and where have you got this info from,

[the game devs, or have you just made it up?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by fuzzjunky

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Tell all that crap to Warspite shit deck armor and short range. Yes, it will penetrate the bow armor but NO, it won't straight citadel you like Yamato's guns. Warspite has allways been THE brawler BB in this game, even before BBs received cruiser like turning circles and rudder shift times. In exchange she's extremely vulnerable to long range AP fire even from cruisers. It's not strange for Fuso and New Mexico to deal citadel after citadel with each salvo against Warspite if it is steep plunging fire.

(Edited)

 

Insults, Post Edited, User Warned

~lengxv6

Edited by lengxv6

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so are you goiong to explain this phenomonon 

or are you just going to be a smarmy pratt ?

 

some of us have lives and don't study video game physics all day

 

 

like who on earth would understand a comment like this,

"a JPE-100 with AP will always penetrate a AMX 13 90 no matter the angle."

 

i mean what planet do you live on, where you use these terms without explanation?

and what sort of people do you usually talk to that would understand it?

 

in the real world, with angled armour, say 1 degree,

there is very little chance of a shell penetrating,

no matter what the shell or the armour is. 

the shape of the shell won't even allow it.

 

 

you have suggest that in this game, the shell will always penetrate, NO MATTER WHAT,

 

so please don't go off on some make belief tangent,

i want you to explain to me how a shell penetrates in this game

at a 1 degree angle,

and where have you got this info from,

[the game devs, or have you just made it up?]

 

I replied that way because I already explained it to you. Twice.

I'll link you the official wiki for WoT because the WoWS one hasnt been updated yet to reflect Overmatch mechanics.

But the mechanics for overmatch apply the same way in WoWS as it is in WoT.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics#Overmatch

 

I will re-explain it to you. Again.

 

  • This game is an arcade game. Not a simulator. That being said, it tries to be realistic if gameplay allows it.
    • ​Basically, Gameplay >> Realism. If Gameplay allows it, Realism can be implemented.​

 

  • Overmatch mechanics in both World of Tanks and World of Warships.
    • Overmatch occurs in World of Tanks when an AP shell is >3x the thickness of armor it encounters. For example, a Jagdtiger's 128mm shell will always penetrate the front hull of an AMX 13 90 which is 40mms thick because 128mm > 40mm x3 = 120mm therefore 128mm > 120mm
      • In this case, the Jagdtiger penetrates the AMX 13 90 and deals 560+/- 25% damage.
    • Overmatch occurs in World of Warships when an AP shell is >14.3x the thickness of armor it encounters. In this example, the Warspite's 381mm shell will always penetrate the bow armor of a New Mexico which is 25mm thick beacuse 381mm > 25mmx14.3 = 357.5mm therefore since 381mm > 357.5mm, the Warspite will penetrate the New Mexico's bow armor and deal either:
      • 10% damage (Overpenetration, unlikely because theres a lot of space behind the bow armor)
      • 33% damage (Standard penetration)
      • 100% damage (Citadel penetration as you still need to penetrate the citadel armor)
      • Caveat: Damage above is before the 1/2 damage threshold.

 

  • Overmatch mechanics DOES NOT get stopped by any ricochet mechanic. Basically Overmatch is the HIGHEST priority in the game when calculating for penetrations.

 

I really hope this explanation suffices for you. If you are still unclear please tell me which part so I can help.

 

Yes it may or may not happen in real life and realism is something you may want. For that I quote SerB, WoT's Lead Developer:

 

“Want realism? join the army.” - SerB

 

I'm not even kidding you, he states that many times when interviewed on the direction of development in World of Tanks.

 

Tell all that crap to Warspite shit deck armor and short range. Yes, it will penetrate the bow armor but NO, it won't straight citadel you like Yamato's guns. Warspite has allways been THE brawler BB in this game, even before BBs received cruiser like turning circles and rudder shift times. In exchange she's extremely vulnerable to long range AP fire even from cruisers. It's not strange for Fuso and New Mexico to deal citadel after citadel with each salvo against Warspite if it is steep plunging fire.

And you are a supertester? I'd expect something better than a sensationalist and misleading title from someone of your position, though it doesn't surprise me taking into account you said that german HE is how all HE should be on cruisers.

 

 

Of course the person who has zero battles would attack someones title / stats / etc.

 

Yes I believe German HE is what HE should be like on all cruisers. Because CAs are basically easy game with HE. Just throw your 155 HEs from 18km and watch everything burn because you dont need to aim as well as you would with HE. As long as you hit the target you have around a 10% per shell on average chance of setting anything on fire dealing an average of 10 - 40k damage depending on tier and Damage Control.

 

And my title is as misleading as you wish it to be. It got your attention, so thats a plus. I believe its the Yamato of tier 6s because its gun applies the same mechanics as the Yamato against her equally tiered compatriots. That it will always penetrate the bow armor of Battleships whilst her compatriots, the NM and Fuso cant do the same without getting good angles.

 

Interestingly, everyone likes the bash on how OMG WARSPITE ISNT YAMATO CUZ SHE NOT INVULNERABLE instead of the fact that the mechanics of the game allows the Warspite to always penetrate 25mm bow armor. Its alright. Bash the title but ignore the part where a game mechanic is advantageous to only two ships in the game. The Warspite and Yamato. (Tier 7 BBs can overmatch each other so they negate that advantage by default)

 

Edited by Deathskyz

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I replied that way because I already explained it to you. Twice.

I'll link you the official wiki for WoT because the WoWS one hasnt been updated yet to reflect Overmatch mechanics.

But the mechanics for overmatch apply the same way in WoWS as it is in WoT.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics#Overmatch

 

I will re-explain it to you. Again.

 

  • This game is an arcade game. Not a simulator. That being said, it tries to be realistic if gameplay allows it.
    • ​Basically, Gameplay >> Realism. If Gameplay allows it, Realism can be implemented.​

 

  • Overmatch mechanics in both World of Tanks and World of Warships.
    • Overmatch occurs in World of Tanks when an AP shell is >3x the thickness of armor it encounters. For example, a Jagdtiger's 128mm shell will always penetrate the front hull of an AMX 13 90 which is 40mms thick because 128mm > 40mm x3 = 120mm therefore 128mm > 120mm
      • In this case, the Jagdtiger penetrates the AMX 13 90 and deals 560+/- 25% damage.
    • Overmatch occurs in World of Warships when an AP shell is >14.3x the thickness of armor it encounters. In this example, the Warspite's 381mm shell will always penetrate the bow armor of a New Mexico which is 25mm thick beacuse 381mm > 25mmx14.3 = 357.5mm therefore since 381mm > 357.5mm, the Warspite will penetrate the New Mexico's bow armor and deal either:
      • 10% damage (Overpenetration, unlikely because theres a lot of space behind the bow armor)
      • 33% damage (Standard penetration)
      • 100% damage (Citadel penetration as you still need to penetrate the citadel armor)
      • Caveat: Damage above is before the 1/2 damage threshold.

 

  • Overmatch mechanics DOES NOT get stopped by any ricochet mechanic. Basically Overmatch is the HIGHEST priority in the game when calculating for penetrations.

 

I really hope this explanation suffices for you. If you are still unclear please tell me which part so I can help.

 

Yes it may or may not happen in real life and realism is something you may want. For that I quote SerB, WoT's Lead Developer:

 

“Want realism? join the army.” - SerB

 

I'm not even kidding you, he states that many times when interviewed on the direction of development in World of Tanks.

 

 

Of course the person who has zero battles would attack someones title / stats / etc.

 

Yes I believe German HE is what HE should be like on all cruisers. Because CAs are basically easy game with HE. Just throw your 155 HEs from 18km and watch everything burn because you dont need to aim as well as you would with HE. As long as you hit the target you have around a 10% per shell on average chance of setting anything on fire dealing an average of 10 - 40k damage depending on tier and Damage Control.

 

And my title is as misleading as you wish it to be. It got your attention, so thats a plus. I believe its the Yamato of tier 6s because its gun applies the same mechanics as the Yamato against her equally tiered compatriots. That it will always penetrate the bow armor of Battleships whilst her compatriots, the NM and Fuso cant do the same without getting good angles.

 

Interestingly, everyone likes the bash on how OMG WARSPITE ISNT YAMATO CUZ SHE NOT INVULNERABLE instead of the fact that the mechanics of the game allows the Warspite to always penetrate 25mm bow armor. Its alright. Bash the title but ignore the part where a game mechanic is advantageous to only two ships in the game. The Warspite and Yamato. (Tier 7 BBs can overmatch each other so they negate that advantage by default)

 

 

As a slight aside - The Warspite will meet ships of Tier 7 and 8 - which can Pen it, The Yamato however won't meet a Tier 11.....

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Of course the person who has zero battles would attack someones title / stats / etc.

 

That's rich coming from someone who's got his stats private. Just in case you haven't noticed it I'm not from here, I'm from EU.

 

Yes I believe German HE is what HE should be like on all cruisers. Because CAs are basically easy game with HE. Just throw your 155 HEs from 18km and watch everything burn because you dont need to aim as well as you would with HE. As long as you hit the target you have around a 10% per shell on average chance of setting anything on fire dealing an average of 10 - 40k damage depending on tier and Damage Control.

 

Direct from the RU developers:

 

GXX9bJD.jpg

 

From top to bottom:

AP

HE

Secondaries HE and AP (Almost invisible)

Shipborne torpedoes

Bombs

Airborne torpedoes

Fires

Flooding

Ram (Almost invisible)

 

So yeah, world of fires, HE OP plz nurf! Besides, who the (Edited) belives that Mogami's and Cleveland's 150/155 guns are OP after the nerf they received some months ago? You are basically just crying that a cruiser is using its strenghts to outplay you and even so this chart clearly shows that your perception about the power of HE, specially in high tiers, is completely wrong.
 

 

And my title is as misleading as you wish it to be. It got your attention, so thats a plus. I believe its the Yamato of tier 6s because its gun applies the same mechanics as the Yamato against her equally tiered compatriots. That it will always penetrate the bow armor of Battleships whilst her compatriots, the NM and Fuso cant do the same without getting good angles.

 

Interestingly, everyone likes the bash on how OMG WARSPITE ISNT YAMATO CUZ SHE NOT INVULNERABLE instead of the fact that the mechanics of the game allows the Warspite to always penetrate 25mm bow armor. Its alright. Bash the title but ignore the part where a game mechanic is advantageous to only two ships in the game. The Warspite and Yamato. (Tier 7 BBs can overmatch each other so they negate that advantage by default)

 

 

And that's basically what she's got that makes her unique, her brawling capabilities. Even with your oh so feared insta pen in the bow a NM and specially a Fuso can get thenseleves in an advantage position against Warspite more easily than the other way around.

 

Also, what the guy above me mentioned, MM can be harsh on Warspite too.

 

Profanity, Post Edited, User already Warned

~lengxv6

Edited by lengxv6

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Well to say that Warspite can overmatch the armour of the other T6's seems correct, but is she the yamato? probably not.

 

From what everyone says about yamato it isn't just her big guns that make her powerful, it's also her strong armour making it very difficult to fight back. Warspite does not have this advantage.

 

I think that the warspite is probably fine as she is. She has comparable armour and speed, but is more maneuverable. She has fewer guns than the others (8 v's 12) but they are more powerful and turn slower.

On our server on average her damage is _less_ than New Mexico and Fuso, so hardly over performing. Still she's a good ship, the only reason I didn't get her is the cost they were asking.

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That's rich coming from someone who's got his stats private. Just in case you haven't noticed it I'm not from here, I'm from EU.

 

 

So yeah, world of fires, HE OP plz nurf! Besides, who the (Edited) belives that Mogami's and Cleveland's 150/155 guns are OP after the nerf they received some months ago? You are basically just crying that a cruiser is using its strengths to outplay you and even so this chart clearly shows that your perception about the power of HE, specially in high tiers, is completely wrong.
 

And that's basically what she's got that makes her unique, her brawling capabilities. Even with your oh so feared insta pen in the bow a NM and specially a Fuso can get thenseleves in an advantage position against Warspite more easily than the other way around.

 

Also, what the guy above me mentioned, MM can be harsh on Warspite too.

 

Ah yes. The EU Server. The server that whines a lot because they arent treated as well as RU server, not as much as NA though.

So you like to bash other people but dont want other people bashing you? Cute.

 

Yes I've seen the RU Graph before.

Heck I brought it here earlier in another thread asking why HE and Fire is so OP.

 

4 Questions for you because you like to bash me because I'm a supertester and you believe that supertesters are some godly individuals who are never wrong and you want to perform a V for Vendetta and open everyones eyes to rise up and overthrow the authorities and not be sheeple anymore or something of that nature.

  1. Were you bullied as a child or as an adult in any form that led you to have some form of Napoleon Complex? That you feel the need to bash someone because hes a volunteer who wants to help benefit the game/community?
  2. Where in my post did I mention the Warspite had Godly Armor specifically? I opened up with it being the Yamato because it and the Warspite benefits from overmatch mechanics solely. The others BBs cant or can do the same to each other.
  3. Combine HE and Fire damage and you get a respectable amount of damage. Did I say fire was OP? No I said fire was Easy Game because you dont need to aim as well as you would with AP.
  4. What the hell have you done anywhere to benefit this community?

 

Quote Updated

~lengxv6

Edited by lengxv6

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When people on SEA ask me why I transfered from EU to here I can now post them this thread instead of the old Bad E-100 Players thread on the EU forums.

 

Btw the real reason why Warspite can't be Yamato is because...

 ... she's not japanese! 

*Plays dramatic music*

 

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