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perositi

Who else is sick of HE spamming Cruisers

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I really enjoy the game but some aspects are just really off putting. probably the biggest gripe is the amount of players who just spam HE shells from over 16km away, yes you can avoid the shots cos of the arc, but when you get three Cleavland's or Nurnbergs etc all together just constantly firing over ranged HE spam the whole game is just spent zigzagging and trying to get in range to fire back before you burn to death.

 

Fair enough they have the fire rate, but with the use of perks they are able to fire at greater ranges than other cruisers and even some battleships. It also seems alot worse for the HE barrages since the Appregio missions started. I find now most of my games that if there are Cleatvands  etc I spend more time hunting them down than anything else, just so others will be able to avoid the HE spam.

 

What does everybody else think.

 

 

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I really enjoy the game but some aspects are just really off putting. probably the biggest gripe is the amount of players who just spam HE shells from over 16km away, yes you can avoid the shots cos of the arc, but when you get three Cleavland's or Nurnbergs etc all together just constantly firing over ranged HE spam the whole game is just spent zigzagging and trying to get in range to fire back before you burn to death.

 

Fair enough they have the fire rate, but with the use of perks they are able to fire at greater ranges than other cruisers and even some battleships. It also seems alot worse for the HE barrages since the Appregio missions started. I find now most of my games that if there are Cleatvands  etc I spend more time hunting them down than anything else, just so others will be able to avoid the HE spam.

 

What does everybody else think.

 

 

 

You won't find many who will agree with you. I abhor the current HE mechanic. It is an easy win button for players. HE in this game like in WoT, is WG's crutch mechanic for those that lack the necessary skills to properly aim. They just fire HE and watch the other ships burn to death. Until such time WG decides HE fires is out of line they will never change it. I'm constantly told this is an arcade game. Yes it is, a fantasy arcade game where magical HE shells set harden steel on fire that is sucking the fun out of the game.
Edited by RebelliousYankee

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Beta Tester
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morale of the story...........

never engage the enemy alone......

if they lock on you quickly leave the area until they lock on another target...........

Incoming fire alert skill is useful for situation like this.........

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Super Tester
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HE has been somewhat nerfed since earlier patches, it used to be much more overpowered. My suggestion is that you travel with teammates, and don't go out alone headfirst into a group of enemy cruisers. If there are other targets for cruisers to shoot at, then you won't be focus-fired by a group of them, plus travelling with teammates let you make short work of them if you focus-fire each of them one-by-one.

 

Simply put, know when to retreat and run away. You can be more of an asset to your team if you know when to escape, so that you can survive and deal more damage later on during the match. When you are alone and you see 4 cruisers straight ahead and 12km away, it would probably be a good time to shift course.

Edited by benlisquare

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Alpha Tester
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They can't nerf HE too much.

 

The trouble is they've put ships in combat where the 'normal' situation is a BB > everything, which is why nations built them and why you really don't fight BBs with anything other than another BB.

 

'Reality' is that a ship closing at 30kt (55.56km/h) will close about 1km per minute. So if you're trying to close from 20km to 15km in a CA, for example, that would take almost 5 minutes. That's enough FOR 10 SHOTS by most BBs with main guns. Good luck with that.

 

Then there's the other reality, that CA rounds represent a minimum threat to a BB while any single hit from a BB can do catastrophic damage to a CA.

 

Go read the battle report of the Battle of the River plate and see what happened to HMS Exeter under fire from the 11"/280mm guns of Graf Spee, and that's only 6 of them. There were also 2 CLs spamming HE from 6" guns, too. Yet the Brits came out of it without doing substantial damage to GS's ability to fight (strategic damage was worse due to damage to fuel purification plant, but that's another story). Bear in mind, too, that the GS had armour nothing like a BB (she was an oversized CA with intermediate sized guns).

 

So the reality is everyone would play BBs because nothing else would stand a chance.

 

Then you get CVs, and the reality shifts to everything else being relegated to support.

 

So, they had to have some methods by which CAs and DDs could do something.

 

Thus you get vastly accelerated movement, which is a nerf of slow firing guns at range. You also get the silly mechanic where DD calibre guns start fires that melt BBs. And you can hide in smoke while firing as though in the clear and remaining invisible.

 

It is what it is because it's the only way they could jam these ships together without BBs ruling everything but CVs.

 

If it annoys you too much, stop playing. That's what I've done. But don't expect it to change significantly, because if it does every class other than BBs and CVs will be irrelevant in 95% of cases.

 

There's a reason naval combat shifted from BBs to CVs, and CAs and DDs acting primarily as support to both those.

 

But it wouldn't suit a game like this.

 

So that's how it is, and how it will remain.

 

I don't like it, so I've stopped playing. That, more or less, is the choice you face. Accept the gamey mechanics and learn how to use them, or quit.

 

Cheers

 

p.s. I edited the numbers as I had a brain fade and got the closure numbers incorrect (had them half what they should be).

Edited by Steeltrap

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I don't like it, so I've stopped playing. That, more or less, is the choice you face. Accept the gamey mechanics and learn how to use them, or quit.

 

Cheers

 

Sadly, I believe this is going to be the option of a great many players, not that WG will mind. High turnover does them good because those who started from the beginning will be gone with less and less people who know and understand what is going on will be diminished and filled by those who accept anything WG puts out in a game. However, when another company puts out a similar game designed to help lessen those issues that caused people to leave, then and only then do you get movement. Proof of that is what AW did to WoT and WGs response. They lost a large number of players from the RU sector according to their own data...I wonder why.

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I think one of the issues is the seeming nerf to AP when they fixed the citadel bug a few patches back. I KNOW there wasn't supposedly a nerf to AP, but from all the games I've played I've noticed that AP bounces a hell of a lot more than it used to (I'm not talking overpen's which also seemed to increase with that patch, but straight zero damage bounces!). AP still works, but it seems to need a very good RNG roll or else nearly no angle to what it hits these days.

 

I think maybe what they should do is reduce the angle rules for AP bounce calculations by 2 to 5 degrees. Not a lot, but just means you need to be more skilful to properly angle and bounce shells, and let's AP be a little more consistent than so RNG dependant like it is now. if AP isn't so flukey like it is now, you might see a few more people using it more often, though it'd still require skill to use effectively, just not skill and rng luck like now.

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They can't nerf HE too much.

 

The trouble is they've put ships in combat where the 'normal' situation is a BB > everything, which is why nations built them and why you really don't fight BBs with anything other than another BB.

 

'Reality' is that a ship closing at 30kt (55.56km/h) will close about 500m per minute. So if you're trying to close from 20km to 15km in a CA, for example, that would take almost 10 minutes. That's enough FOR 20 SHOTS by most BBs with main guns. Good luck with that.

 

Then there's the other reality, that CA rounds represent a minimum threat to a BB while any single hit from a BB can do catastrophic damage to a CA.

 

Go read the battle report of the Battle of the River plate and see what happened to HMS Exeter under fire from the 11"/280mm guns of Graf Spee, and that's only 6 of them. There were also 2 CLs spamming HE from 6" guns, too. Yet the Brits came out of it without doing substantial damage to GS's ability to fight (strategic damage was worse due to damage to fuel purification plant, but that's another story). Bear in mind, too, that the GS had armour nothing like a BB (she was an oversized CA with intermediate sized guns).

 

So the reality is everyone would play BBs because nothing else would stand a chance.

 

Then you get CVs, and the reality shifts to everything else being relegated to support.

 

So, they had to have some methods by which CAs and DDs could do something.

 

Thus you get vastly accelerated movement, which is a nerf of slow firing guns at range. You also get the silly mechanic where DD calibre guns start fires that melt BBs. And you can hide in smoke while firing as though in the clear and remaining invisible.

 

It is what it is because it's the only way they could jam these ships together without BBs ruling everything but CVs.

 

If it annoys you too much, stop playing. That's what I've done. But don't expect it to change significantly, because if it does every class other than BBs and CVs will be irrelevant in 95% of cases.

 

There's a reason naval combat shifted from BBs to CVs, and CAs and DDs acting primarily as support to both those.

 

But it wouldn't suit a game like this.

 

So that's how it is, and how it will remain.

 

I don't like it, so I've stopped playing. That, more or less, is the choice you face. Accept the gamey mechanics and learn how to use them, or quit.

 

Cheers

That why I've stopped playing 

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well do you like to get citadeled by cruisers or battleships?

usually HE shells are better to recieve than AP cuz

you'll get knocked out instantly when an AP shell hits you

note: this doesnt work everytime and also burning doesnt do much damage

so its ok for me to be hit by HE

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Burning doesn't do much damage? Really?

 

Go look at the damage panel. Interesting we don't get told how much damage we TOOK from fires, but you can see what you caused from it. I also did the calculations sometimes and found easily half the damage I took must have been from fires; at times when I worked it out I'd find I lost over half my health from fires alone when in a BB.

 

I sometimes used HE from BBs because it screwed modules and was a better choice on those who played the game of just sitting stationary bow on at you, or even reversing while so aligned.

 

I had battles in CA where I did a TON more damage from fire than I did from the impact of the shells. Just required luck AND some poor sod having used their damage control.

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If I was to suggest a change in the Mechanics:

 

Add a 3rd shell choice - call it incendiary:

 

1: HE shells - good consistent damage (so about the same damage output they currently do) but the ability to start fires is removed

2: AP Shells - Chance at Massive Damage, but Overpens do naff all damage (so how they currently are)

3: Incendiary shells - Piddly damage (100-200 per shell) BUT they have the ability to start fires (in line with the current chance that HE has)

 

Then a cruiser captain has to think - go for good Average damage, Go for low damage but the chance of fire or go for Citadels?

 

Atm Spamming HE is too powerful because the shell does good damage (I can get 3k damage per salvo on my Cleveland and that really starts to mount up with the RoF) and also have the very high chance of starting fires (so Damage over time) - there really is little incentive to use AP unless you are really confident with your aiming (I love it  when I get a devestating strike with AP in a Cleveland)

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I really enjoy the game but some aspects are just really off putting. probably the biggest gripe is the amount of players who just spam HE shells from over 16km away, yes you can avoid the shots cos of the arc, but when you get three Cleavland's or Nurnbergs etc all together just constantly firing over ranged HE spam the whole game is just spent zigzagging and trying to get in range to fire back before you burn to death.

 

If you are 1v4 against any enemy ships you should be at a large disadvantage. Overcome that by rejoining your team and then push up into them once things are a bit more equal.  As for a CA/CL vs BB 1v1, the BB has a significant advantage, it can do massive damage to the CA in one salvo, where the CA can only slowly whittle the BB's health down.  Fire's are a necessary part of that system, because without them the CA would have no chance whatsoever, instead of being at a significant disadvantage, but still able to win if they play well and the BB plays poorly.

 

I understand it feels bad to have your health burnt slowly away by fire, but it feels a lot worse to have most of your health removed in one salvo.

 

I think some people think BB's should win every gunfight 1v1 in all circumstances because that is what would have happened historically.  That wouldn't make for a very good game, so there needs to be the ability for other ships to be able to defeat a BB if they outplay that BB.  HE and fires serve that balancing function, and it is well balanced, except at the higher tiers where CA's are quite poor.  Accept it, or accept that this game may not be for you.

 

I abhor the current HE mechanic. It is an easy win button for players. HE in this game like in WoT, is WG's crutch mechanic for those that lack the necessary skills to properly aim.

 

No, it isn't.  It is the correct ammunition choice in many circumstances.  If you do nothing but spam HE and aim poorly, you will do poorly.  If you use AP where you should be using HE, you will do poorly.  Knowing what to shoot and where to shoot it is a key skill in this game.  HE also rewards correct aim, because if you fire HE at a damage soaked part of a ship, you won't do much damage.  If you fire HE at a part of the ship that is already burning, you won't start another fire.  I suspect you're saying it's a no-skill crutch because you don't like it when you're outplayed by someone using HE and fire, either that or you don't have a full understanding of the mechanics involved in ammunition choice and where to aim. If that's the case, then say that, don't just say people who use HE have no skill.

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Whenever I'm outgunned by several enemy ships to 1 (me), half dead and were already turned tail at a good distance, it is one of the best fun to see the enemies trying in vain trying to hit me with HE spams :trollface:

 

Whenever possible I'll not try to focus on cruisers at 14km+, even worse on DD, unless I'm closing in the distance and committed to the fight.

Enemy BB however is a different story, depending on if team mates reluctant to make the push so I'll make myself useful by spamming HE at BB (when it is the closest enemy ships) until I found other targets worth my duty.

 

I'm guessing the OP is primarily a BB player. Being constantly spammed HE must means he doesn't always have cruiser/DD escorts.

So... blame your bad team mates?

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Super Tester
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Burning doesn't do much damage? Really?

 

Go look at the damage panel. Interesting we don't get told how much damage we TOOK from fires, but you can see what you caused from it. I also did the calculations sometimes and found easily half the damage I took must have been from fires; at times when I worked it out I'd find I lost over half my health from fires alone when in a BB.

 

I sometimes used HE from BBs because it screwed modules and was a better choice on those who played the game of just sitting stationary bow on at you, or even reversing while so aligned.

 

I had battles in CA where I did a TON more damage from fire than I did from the impact of the shells. Just required luck AND some poor sod having used their damage control.

 

You are clearly an outlier, if that is the case.

 

GXX9bJD_zps9gmoybn9.jpg

 

This post is from Sub_Octavian, one of the developers of World of Warships and WoWS RU's SuperTest manager. Not long ago, he posted this infographic, showing the components of damage received per tier for each ship class. Note his position, which means that he would have access to information like this.

 

The legend is, in descending order:

  • AP Ammo
  • HE Ammo
  • Destroyer-launched torpedoes
  • Carrier-launched bombs
  • Carrier-launched torpedoes
  • Fires
  • Flooding

 

If you can see, at no point is fire the main damage contributor in a ship's demise.

Edited by Haku

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wow interesting.

 

with all the current HE/AP update fiascos,

can we see on what date this graph was taken??.

 

if it was november last year it would be very different than today,

and when was the start point? game release? or later?

 

not trolling just interested.

some of those numbers look weird to me

 

[my main death is definitely hits to citadel]

Edited by fuzzjunky

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Ответ. Ваши предположения безусловно интересны, но давайте посмотрим на факты - на статистические данные по нанесению урона. Возьмем, скажем, последний месяц.

 

This states that the damage figures were taken last month (i.e. after the damage model and AP was reworked).

 

Edit: Oh God I got ninja-ed.

Edited by Haku

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Super Tester
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This states that the damage figures were taken last month (i.e. after the damage model and AP was reworked).

 

Edit: Oh God I got ninja-ed.

 

Ninja'd. Just like your Win Rate. wait wha-

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You are clearly an outlier, if that is the case.

 

GXX9bJD_zps9gmoybn9.jpg

 

This post is from Sub_Octavian, one of the developers of World of Warships and WoWS RU's SuperTest manager. Not long ago, he posted this infographic, showing the components of damage received per tier for each ship class. Note his position, which means that he would have access to information like this.

 

The legend is, in descending order:

  • AP Ammo
  • HE Ammo
  • Destroyer-launched torpedoes
  • Carrier-launched bombs
  • Carrier-launched torpedoes
  • Fires
  • Flooding

 

If you can see, at no point is fire the main damage contributor in a ship's demise.

 

Erm - hold up a sec - Fire on its own isn't - but if you combine with HE  Damage (afterall HE causes Fires) it is almost by fire the biggest Damage causing for most ships - except BBs and CAs above tier 7

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Super Tester
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although doesn't HE when it slams at a ship deal about 1-2k a shell? a battleship HEHC slamming to a cruiser iirc deals 6k damage last time I unloaded at a Cleveland in a Warspite which connected 2 rounds

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That's a fascinating table, thanks for posting that Haku!

 

Interestingly, above tier 4, BB's take significantly more damage from AP than HE, which makes it a little difficult to justify the complaints about HE.

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although doesn't HE when it slams at a ship deal about 1-2k a shell? a battleship HEHC slamming to a cruiser iirc deals 6k damage last time I unloaded at a Cleveland in a Warspite which connected 2 rounds

 

Thats if it is a penetration but not an Overpen and not a Citadel

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Alpha Tester
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It's strange how peeps will complain when bad things are happening to them, but when the situation is reversed and they are dealing out the damage/fire to the enemy, everything is good.

 

I've never seen a thread that says "I'm killing too many ships, plz stop this WG"

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It's strange how peeps will complain when bad things are happening to them, but when the situation is reversed and they are dealing out the damage/fire to the enemy, everything is good.

 

I've never seen a thread that says "I'm killing too many ships, plz stop this WG"

 

I did - when I decided to try the Destroyer line and found them and their Torps to be OP....

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You are clearly an outlier, if that is the case.

 

I made the point it was when I chose to check, not all the time. Not helped by the fact the damage received report does't list fire.

 

Over the entire range of games I'd not expect fire to do the most damage, but I was responding to the suggestion it "doesn't do much damage". I wasn't suggesting that I died generally because of fire, or that it always did the most damage. But there clearly were cases in a BB where that was true, so the suggestion fires don't do much damage seemed a bit unreasonable.

 

Not that it matters.

Edited by Steeltrap

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