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EvyL

the Derfflinger battlecruiser

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Super Tester
1,679 posts

I gotta apologize to the Germans about the dyslexia in me that initially read this "Derpslinger" and "Dirtflinger".

 

As I actually like battlecruisers, I still find the German iteration of their battlecruiser quite interesting.

 

I PRESENT TO YOU THE DERFFLINGER BATTLECRUISER.

 

2rcso6d.jpg

 

GLORIOUS KRUPPSTAHL  BATTLECRUISER.

 

Well as I had said during the previous badposts about the battlecruiser, the core concept of the ship was that it was a capital ship that was able to thug cruisers hard, provide escort runs and be an interim capital ship that was not a battleship to project force in the water. However, there were deviations on how to battlecruiser by several navies, most notably the British and the Germans. The UK wanted speed, guns and armor sound enough so that cruisers won't punch through the hull whilst the Germans, knowing they could never outnumber their counterparts by sheer numbers, had focused more on the battlecruiser performing two roles which should be standing in the battle line only when it is absolutely a necessity to act as a ship of the line and their standard core concept of how the battlecruiser should work, in short they were focusing on the things that can take a moderate amount of beating and still float while doing so. One of the things in the German aspect of the battlecruiser thought were the Derfflingers which was probably the last battlecruiser class on the water and if given enough rep, THE toughest battlecruiser to the point she was called the "Iron Dog". She had her gritty runs but ended with her scuttling due to the German Admiralty telling the skeleton crews to off their ships as glorious as they can so the fleet interned at Scapa Flow will not face the shameful display of having their fleet interned anymore.

 

It sure as hell no Von Der Tann and Seydlitz (strangely, some bits say she was practically a souped up Moltke) which were solo classes of their own or the paper Mackensens and Ersatz Yorcks but it works wonders. There were actually three sisters, Derfflinger, Lutzow and Hindenburg. Hindenburg was the most souped up in terms of size and design and whatever the hell was crammed onto her since she was the last... why do the youngest siblings get the incredibly good things.

 

20h80lf.jpg

 

I gotta admit, ship has a really distinct silhouette with that big-ass mast.

 

ei43uw.jpg

 

She had about 12 inches of belt, 1.2 inches of deck, 11 inches of turret and 12 inches of the bridge and forecastle, could run at about 27 knots (26.5) and had offensive armaments of four dual mount turrets lugging 12 inch L/50 guns which were superior to most 12 inch guns at the period and were also used on several German dreads such as the Helgoland and Kaiser classes along with a complement of twelve 6 inch guns, a modest AA suite of two pairs of 88's in any case some biplane carrying a nasty surprise decided they were a good target to go on torpedo runs at and four torpedo tubes. Ain't she jacked up. I could say the same for her sisters as they had some weird stuff on em during retrofits such as 14 secondaries for Lutzow and Hindenburg, more 88's for Derfflinger and larger 23 inch torpedoes on Lutzow and Hindenburg. Apart from that, Derfflinger had some small cranes on her for testing seaplanes although I have no idea if they actually did install a slingshot/catapult for the seaplanes.

 

2cf4go.jpg

 

The ship with a dread. Yes, dreadnoughts are pudgy ships that have armor that can take punishment so hard compared to this big battlecruiser where she can take so much... in practice.

 

The battlecruiser was keeled, had strange problems during launching mostly because there were things that jammed her braces in the slipway that kinda delayed the launch a bit, had her shakedown and got commissioned to the I scouting group which was, at the time, a really large recon unit under Franz von Hipper (yes, this guy is the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper's namesake) that had a lot of notoriety. She had her first taste of combat.. well... raid actually... where she was part of the raiders on to some coastal towns where she and her colleagues up and blasted the living hell out of them and despite the whole "stabbing you in your sleep" maneuver which was meant to have elements of the Grand Fleet run after them where they can be so far enough to be isolated and sunk but for some reason, something went awry as the raiders ran away with some people at the German side really furious at the glorious chance to blast the really scattered British forces that were trying to interdict them. During the brawl of Dogger bank, Derfflinger got her first hit but in turn chucked the battlecruiser Lion with two good hits that resulted in her falling out of line. She was also a participant during the massive brawl of Jutland where everything was chaotic, especially of the initial battlecruiser action where there were battlecruisers blowing up and it was the point where everything just started blasting each other and hope the other sank.

 

Bundesarchiv_Bild_134-B2100%2C_Panzerkre

 

Battleships are tough? Tell that to the Derfflinger!

 

A strange thing was that she wasn't beaded in the first few minutes of battle despite the ship was also unloading so hard at the British battlecruiser squadron that entered their range until they were beaded. During the run, she suffered eight hits, some of which were from 15 inch guns and she started taking internal damage but also had her first kill with the help of her little sister Lutzow against HMS Invincible by a magazine detonation after her final salvo which was pummeling her little sister so hard... bad ship to christen Invincible when she got mag detted. After a while when they were starting to move away, the lead elements of the British battlecruiser squadron unloaded and knocked out another turret on Derfflinger and she, along with some of her colleagues that had a hard whacking at the time, had two functional guns and any more brawls would likely prove the disablement of the battlecruiser. It was the insanity of her damage that was impressive even for a battlecruiser: 17 rounds on her, some secondary batteries nailed her and God knows of the internal damage like flooding did. She later participated during the second brawl of Heligoland Bight and was a commerce raider for a time until the mutiny and desertion at Wilhelmshaven and the eventual surrender. Her last years was being interned at Scapa Flow until the whole scuttling thing in order to save face. Still, her "Iron Dog" nickname wasn't for show as normally battlecruisers shouldn't even take a hail of damage from bigger ships and she got hit several times by battleships that had carried 15 inch guns despite her belt only good enough to protect against cruiser guns at 12 inches of thickness at best.

 

In-game wise, I don't think she can even fit as fast battleship as it is likely she did not have any design studies to make her viable for any retrofitting but if she did, its likely that she would have been upgunned with 15 inch guns with the best candidate being the Bayern's making her into an impromptu Mackensen battlecruiser. The 12 inch guns are good enough for cruiser destruction but against battleships, the only viable way is to put "railgun pen" on her so she can reliably punch through battleships, not actually scoring citadels but enough to just punch a hole through one. Its like taking a Kongo and removing her eight dual mount turrets packing 14 inch guns with the  dual mount turrets packing 12 inch guns of the Wyoming. 26.5 knots is certainly not that much but its reasonable for a gritty battlecruiser like her, what more with possible design studies that can retrofit her. I will also take this time to assume her accuracy is fair enough for a German ship... just not Tirpitz level dispersion when firing from long range.

 

Derp.exe has stopped working.

 

 

 

Edited by EvyL

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Beta Tester
760 posts
6,929 battles

8x12" guns would mean she can still play the role of a tier 4 battleship, having the speed of about 26.5 knots and semi viable AA, she can act as the middle ground tier 4 BB

Myogi = Low Armor, Low no. of high calibre ( for tier 4, 6x14" guns), Highest speed moderate AA

Imperator Nikolai = Strong Armor, High no. low calibre 12 x 12") guns , low speed , Bad AA

Wyoming/Arkansas Beta same as above^ with good and no AA respectively

 

so the Derfflinger with its Medium Armor, High speed, Medium no of low calibre guns (8x12") and buffed (or leave it bad at the pair of 88's) AA could work, kinda like the Ishizuchi

 

Ishizuchi = almost the same specs for my proposal, high speed, low armor, medium no (10x12") of low calibre guns, bad AA

 

Edit, nice work by the way, keep it up :)

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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Super Tester
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8x12" guns would mean she can still play the role of a tier 4 battleship, having the speed of about 26.5 knots and semi viable AA, she can act as the middle ground tier 4 BB

Myogi = Low Armor, Low no. of high calibre ( for tier 4, 6x14" guns), Highest speed moderate AA

Imperator Nikolai = Strong Armor, High no. low calibre 12 x 12") guns , low speed , Bad AA

Wyoming/Arkansas Beta same as above^ with good and no AA respectively

 

so the Derfflinger with its Medium Armor, High speed, Medium no of low calibre guns (8x12") and buffed (or leave it bad at the pair of 88's) AA could work, kinda like the Ishizuchi

 

Ishizuchi = almost the same specs for my proposal, high speed, low armor, medium no (10x12") of low calibre guns, bad AA

 

Edit, nice work by the way, keep it up :)

 

The stock two pairs of 88's don't exactly welcome relief. If she ever did have upgrades, Hindenburg is the last one in.

 

We can still hope for a battleship split tho, the fast battleships hailing early battlecruisers and slow battleships hailing projects.

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Alpha Tester
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Beautiful ships the Derfflinger, looking forward to her and the Mackensen (not completed). the Mackensen was to mount custom designed 13.75in (350mm) guns. and looks almost the same as Derfflinger.

I do like the German battlecruisers unlike the British (and British Designed battlecruisers) the German ships were designed with taking station in a battle line. can't wait to see them in the game.

Nice work EvyL :great:

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Beta Tester
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Beautiful ships the Derfflinger, looking forward to her and the Mackensen (not completed). the Mackensen was to mount custom designed 13.75in (350mm) guns. and looks almost the same as Derfflinger.

I do like the German battlecruisers unlike the British (and British Designed battlecruisers) the German ships were designed with taking station in a battle line. can't wait to see them in the game.

Nice work EvyL :great:

 

The Brits were all about controlling every corner of the world, so having fast ships with big guns at the expense of armour seemed logical to them, being able to project power everywhere. This seem especially true when they destroyed Graf Spee's cruiser squadron at the Falklands with their faster Battlecruisers at the other side of the world. Jutland showed the poor Brits whose Battlecruisers were better, the Germans actually giving their Battlecruisers armour worth talking about lol

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Super Tester
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The Brits were all about controlling every corner of the world, so having fast ships with big guns at the expense of armour seemed logical to them, being able to project power everywhere. This seem especially true when they destroyed Graf Spee's cruiser squadron at the Falklands with their faster Battlecruisers at the other side of the world. Jutland showed the poor Brits whose Battlecruisers were better, the Germans actually giving their Battlecruisers armour worth talking about lol

 

To be fair for the Germans back then, von Tirpitz favored making their ships capable of taking a beating as opposed to the British that wanted to get there first and already set their line and any deviation at that part may break the line to be set up.

 

I'd like to see the Mackensen as well though but I doubt it will last long without retrofits in this game.

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Member
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To be fair for the Germans back then, von Tirpitz favored making their ships capable of taking a beating as opposed to the British that wanted to get there first and already set their line and any deviation at that part may break the line to be set up.

 

I'd like to see the Mackensen as well though but I doubt it will last long without retrofits in this game.

 

If they can come up with  B & C hulls for Myogi (a paper ship), they should be able to come up with B & C hulls (or at least B) for real German ships.

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I don't think the British Battlecruisers were inferior. Sure they lacked the armour that the Germans put on their BC's,  at Jutland, the explanation for the loss of Invincible and the other BC,s was down to the fact of poor cordite handling. They had very bad practices when is came to storage of their explosives. Their motto was "never starve the guns" which in turn led to the mishandling of the cordite. When a 12" or so shell hits a bunch of stored cordite, its going to go "boom", doesn't matter how much armour you have.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Cheers

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Super Tester
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I don't think the British Battlecruisers were inferior. Sure they lacked the armour that the Germans put on their BC's,  at Jutland, the explanation for the loss of Invincible and the other BC,s was down to the fact of poor cordite handling. They had very bad practices when is came to storage of their explosives. Their motto was "never starve the guns" which in turn led to the mishandling of the cordite. When a 12" or so shell hits a bunch of stored cordite, its going to go "boom", doesn't matter how much armour you have.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Cheers

 

It wasn't even saying they were shoddy in construction, just the fact they were unlucky to suffer a horrible mag det as cordite was placed for speed load and blast doors weren't closed as per SOP. Each complimented their traits: the British, which had overwhelming firepower and speed on their battlecruisers, were countered so hard by the Germans who had surprising survivability despite not having hard pressed firepower and speed but had good handling for battlecruisers

 

... except for the Hood when she came out of the slipway. That thing had problems that started poking out when she aged so hard.

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8x12" guns would mean she can still play the role of a tier 4 battleship, having the speed of about 26.5 knots and semi viable AA, she can act as the middle ground tier 4 BB

Myogi = Low Armor, Low no. of high calibre ( for tier 4, 6x14" guns), Highest speed moderate AA

Imperator Nikolai = Strong Armor, High no. low calibre 12 x 12") guns , low speed , Bad AA

Wyoming/Arkansas Beta same as above^ with good and no AA respectively

 

so the Derfflinger with its Medium Armor, High speed, Medium no of low calibre guns (8x12") and buffed (or leave it bad at the pair of 88's) AA could work, kinda like the Ishizuchi

 

Ishizuchi = almost the same specs for my proposal, high speed, low armor, medium no (10x12") of low calibre guns, bad AA

 

Edit, nice work by the way, keep it up :)

Medium armor? Derfflinger had 300mm of belt compared to Nikolai's 270mm. The only area she was lacking in armor was her deck, and that was a trait common to all ships at the time. If she gets speculative upgrades into a early 30's time frame she would have her deck armor and aa increased to at least Myogi levels. As for her guns, I could see them being replaced with the same 11" as used in the so called 'pocket battleships' instead of trying to shoehorn in bigger guns like the 13.75" for Mackensen.  Maybe a B hull with increased AA and longer ranged 12", then a C hull With heaver deck armor, modern aa and 8 faster firing 11" with even longer range.

Edited by Capt_Brownpants

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