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MeloMelonSoda

Finally Nerf hammer falling on the Kiev

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My beloved flamethrower ship got nerf so hard 3000 HP omg im so dead :ohmy:

 

kiev_zpsddxd3kcf.jpg

 

But in my opinion the damage nerf that apply with Genvny, Ognevoi Tashkent and Udaloi is unnecessary, i know that they using the same gun but those ship already struggling to deal damage with the currently damage (in my opinion lol)

 

Anyways i think the Kiev nerf is reasonable :P (but buff it back please)

 

Edit*

Updating about this matter.
 
I did play Kiev yesterday (after the nerf) here are my opinion about it.
- My HP is lower than Ognivoi ??!!, WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT im a tier 7 dude why i have lower HP !!! at lease make it equal.
- This force me to be more passive in this ship because you cannot trade with other DD with this kind of HP hunting for other DD some how out of question.
- The Guns even tho its seem severely nerf but surprisingly it doesn't effect much as i expected (even tho Tashkent and Udaloi should not be happy about) 
- Other things (Speed rudder shift etc.) seem to stay the same 
 
In my opinion this nerf doesn't effect the ship performance as much as i expect i still able to perform the same as usual but the HP nerf is force me to stay out form the unnecessary DD fight since it will deplete my HP and no guarantee i will be able to coming on top of the fight even im the higher tier, As the support ship Kiev still kick-ass, As a DD killer or front line scout not anymore :D:D:D  

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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Beta Tester
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Yeap, nothing more frustrating than being burned to death in my Cleveland (with spotter plane out) while not being able to see or catch the Kiev, and even if i do see him, not being able to hit the fella with my sub orbital shells

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Alpha Tester
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Oh, all that damage I get was from a Ruskie destroyer????? 

 

I thought it was Zeus himself dropping all that fire from the invisibility of Mt Olympus on my poor ships.....     :hiding:

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I just got my Ognevoi 2 days prior to the update and it's really tough now(although she's still in stock hull and commander's still in retraining) but if they were going to nerf the Damage Output and HE chance for Russian DDs at least they should tone it down on the guns getting knocked out or detroyed... It's the only aramament we have and losing even one of them makes for an agonizing match... and don't get me started on the torpedoes...

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Beta Tester
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I just got my Ognevoi 2 days prior to the update and it's really tough now(although she's still in stock hull and commander's still in retraining) but if they were going to nerf the Damage Output and HE chance for Russian DDs at least they should tone it down on the guns getting knocked out or detroyed... It's the only aramament we have and losing even one of them makes for an agonizing match... and don't get me started on the torpedoes...

 

Yea, i really have no problems with Kiev nerf because it deserve that but the Genvny, Ognevoi and Tashkent, really ? and why ? i dont get it :D:D:D

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Beta Tester
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Well deserved nerf. Those invisible flamethrowers were simply ridiculous.

Though, I'd prefer WG nerf their invisibility instead of HP and damage. A ship sitting on open sea and spewing hundreds of shells should not be totally invisible ffs.

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Well deserved nerf. Those invisible flamethrowers were simply ridiculous.

Though, I'd prefer WG nerf their invisibility instead of HP and damage. A ship sitting on open sea and spewing hundreds of shells should not be totally invisible ffs.

 

From your lips to the god's ears...are ignored by TPTB. :hiding:

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Dammit, i only recently got the Kiev.

Cleveland got nerfed right before i unlocked it... I'm starting to see a trend here :(

So the complaints are Russian DD's are fire starters? 7% chance should still see a decent amount of fires being set with its rate of fire.

Gotta test it out once the update is done, the HP Nerf seems like it might hurt the most. 

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Yea, i really have no problems with Kiev nerf because it deserve that but the Genvny, Ognevoi and Tashkent, really ? and why ? i dont get it :D:D:D

 

I just hope this won't be a permanent thing... I'll deal with it for now, but I do expect some other improvements to the main armament be made since RU DDs are so gun reliant...
Edited by Kreigg

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Updating about this matter.

 

I did play Kiev yesterday (after the nerf) here are my opinion about it.

- My HP is lower than Ognivoi ??!!, WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT im a tier 7 dude why i have lower HP !!! at lease make it equal.

- This force me to be more passive in this ship because you cannot trade with other DD with this kind of HP hunting for other DD some how out of question.

- The Guns even tho its seem severely nerf but surprisingly it doesn't effect much as i expected (even tho Tashkent and Udaloi should not be happy about) 

- Other things (Speed rudder shift etc.) seem to stay the same 

 

In my opinion this nerf doesn't effect the ship performance as much as i expect i still able to perform the same as usual but the HP nerf is force me to stay out form the unnecessary DD fight since it will deplete my HP and no guarantee i will be able to coming on top of the fight even im the higher tier, As the support ship Kiev still kick-ass, As a DD killer or front line scout not anymore :D:D:D  

 

View PostKreigg, on 24 December 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

 

I just hope this won't be a permanent thing... I'll deal with it for now, but I do expect some other improvements to the main armament be made since RU DDs are so gun reliant...

 

Turrets disable is something you have to deal with it the rest of the USSR DDs captain life, best luck on you !!! :great:

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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Beta Tester
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Well as a Nicholas player, I still poop myself a little every time I'm tiered up against a Kiev on the enemy team, even with those nerfs :P.

 

The Tier 5 and Tier 7 still a big gap there, but when you reach the Farragut or Mahan i dont really think Kiev is able to challenge those ship anymore, with this kind of HP Kiev going to sink first :D:D:D 

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Super Tester
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My beloved flamethrower ship got nerf so hard 3000 HP omg im so dead :ohmy:

 

kiev_zpsddxd3kcf.jpg

 

But in my opinion the damage nerf that apply with Genvny, Ognevoi Tashkent and Udaloi is unnecessary, i know that they using the same gun but those ship already struggling to deal damage with the currently damage (in my opinion lol)

 

Anyways i think the Kiev nerf is reasonable :P (but buff it back please)

 

Edit*

Updating about this matter.
 
I did play Kiev yesterday (after the nerf) here are my opinion about it.
- My HP is lower than Ognivoi ??!!, WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT im a tier 7 dude why i have lower HP !!! at lease make it equal.
- This force me to be more passive in this ship because you cannot trade with other DD with this kind of HP hunting for other DD some how out of question.
- The Guns even tho its seem severely nerf but surprisingly it doesn't effect much as i expected (even tho Tashkent and Udaloi should not be happy about) 
- Other things (Speed rudder shift etc.) seem to stay the same 
 
In my opinion this nerf doesn't effect the ship performance as much as i expect i still able to perform the same as usual but the HP nerf is force me to stay out form the unnecessary DD fight since it will deplete my HP and no guarantee i will be able to coming on top of the fight even im the higher tier, As the support ship Kiev still kick-ass, As a DD killer or front line scout not anymore :D:D:D  

 

I agree with you. As a Kiev player, we are expected to push the enemy back and hunt DD's. But with the recent nerf, i too, suffer the same difficulty on how to operate this ship anymore. I realized a few things:

1. The amount of hp has forced the captain to only conduct passive scouting and only fires its main gun only if the situation calls for it without taking direct hits due to lowered hp pool. (IJN ship playstyle reference eh? Except u dont play invisi torp tactic.)

2. The recent nerf was for balancing reasons, obviously. But more importantly it was meant to promote the tier 7 russian DD since it has the same hp as the previous nerfed Kiev, but with better torpedoes.

 

Sure, the nerf was the necessity to satisfy people who regarded the kiev as on op invisi flamethrower ship, a force to be reckon with. But the fact that you are only armed with 4km max range torps does it actually justify the hp nerf? no, it just makes it almost impossible to execute attacks on capital ships (which were heavily exploited due to 10 torps in 1 salvo, and the necessary hp to trade). I strongly feel that the kiev is inferior in terms of torpedo armament if u compare with the same tier 7 DD (USN has 9.2km range of torps if upgraded, and IJN at 10km) and the fact that in the previous 15800 hp was justified for its 4km torpedo range. Us kiev players play as a commando (at least, for some people that i see in the other threads), and we need the necessary hp to trade otherwise we cant brawl with other DD, regardless of armour difference, since we are relying almost entirely on our guns and agility to accomplish our task. All i'm asking is this: either rebuff the hp to 14800 or any figure as long it is lower than 15800; reduce the incapacitation % of turrets since kiev is a mainly a gun ship rather than a torpedo boat; or if possible, increase all DD's hp from every nation to make it as balanced as possible (this idea seem pretty weird, but its all for balancing reasons if for the sake of increasing the kiev's hp, least it is considered op to other nations)

 

This post was not meant to infuriate other people who highly regarded the kiev as op and reported for nerfing, so please dont take it that way.

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I agree with you. As a Kiev player, we are expected to push the enemy back and hunt DD's. But with the recent nerf, i too, suffer the same difficulty on how to operate this ship anymore. I realized a few things:

1. The amount of hp has forced the captain to only conduct passive scouting and only fires its main gun only if the situation calls for it without taking direct hits due to lowered hp pool. (IJN ship playstyle reference eh? Except u dont play invisi torp tactic.)

2. The recent nerf was for balancing reasons, obviously. But more importantly it was meant to promote the tier 7 russian DD since it has the same hp as the previous nerfed Kiev, but with better torpedoes.

 

Sure, the nerf was the necessity to satisfy people who regarded the kiev as on op invisi flamethrower ship, a force to be reckon with. But the fact that you are only armed with 4km max range torps does it actually justify the hp nerf? no, it just makes it almost impossible to execute attacks on capital ships (which were heavily exploited due to 10 torps in 1 salvo, and the necessary hp to trade). I strongly feel that the kiev is inferior in terms of torpedo armament if u compare with the same tier 7 DD (USN has 9.2km range of torps if upgraded, and IJN at 10km) and the fact that in the previous 15800 hp was justified for its 4km torpedo range. Us kiev players play as a commando (at least, for some people that i see in the other threads), and we need the necessary hp to trade otherwise we cant brawl with other DD, regardless of armour difference, since we are relying almost entirely on our guns and agility to accomplish our task. All i'm asking is this: either rebuff the hp to 14800 or any figure as long it is lower than 15800; reduce the incapacitation % of turrets since kiev is a mainly a gun ship rather than a torpedo boat; or if possible, increase all DD's hp from every nation to make it as balanced as possible (this idea seem pretty weird, but its all for balancing reasons if for the sake of increasing the kiev's hp, least it is considered op to other nations)

 

This post was not meant to infuriate other people who highly regarded the kiev as op and reported for nerfing, so please dont take it that way.

 

I pretty much have the same idea as you (because we are Kiev player i guess) 

 

I think the Incapacitation % and Torpedoes range will get some slightly buff according to server statisitcs but we have to wait till developer gather more information about how this nerf will affect this ship.

 

These day i kinda forget the Kiev torpedoes since i don't have HP to trade anymore, its force me to be a full passive Gunboat stick with BB/CA give fire support shelling DDs from afar etc (so what the diffence with CA anyways, no citadel ?) :D:D:D

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from what i know. invi firing with rusian destroyer is not really easy.

since u need to shoot from 13-14 kilos away from ur target (almost at ur maxed range with AFT in ognevoi)

rusian destroyer concealment penalty for shooting her main gun is to big. +6 kilo detection range when u fire ur gun (atleast at ognevoi, i dont kow about kiev++ since i havent unlocked them) :fishpalm:. its cruiser penalty level. lol :teethhappy:

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I agree with you. As a Kiev player, we are expected to push the enemy back and hunt DD's. But with the recent nerf, i too, suffer the same difficulty on how to operate this ship anymore. I realized a few things:

1. The amount of hp has forced the captain to only conduct passive scouting and only fires its main gun only if the situation calls for it without taking direct hits due to lowered hp pool. (IJN ship playstyle reference eh? Except u dont play invisi torp tactic.)

2. The recent nerf was for balancing reasons, obviously. But more importantly it was meant to promote the tier 7 russian DD since it has the same hp as the previous nerfed Kiev, but with better torpedoes.

 

Sure, the nerf was the necessity to satisfy people who regarded the kiev as on op invisi flamethrower ship, a force to be reckon with. But the fact that you are only armed with 4km max range torps does it actually justify the hp nerf? no, it just makes it almost impossible to execute attacks on capital ships (which were heavily exploited due to 10 torps in 1 salvo, and the necessary hp to trade). I strongly feel that the kiev is inferior in terms of torpedo armament if u compare with the same tier 7 DD (USN has 9.2km range of torps if upgraded, and IJN at 10km) and the fact that in the previous 15800 hp was justified for its 4km torpedo range. Us kiev players play as a commando (at least, for some people that i see in the other threads), and we need the necessary hp to trade otherwise we cant brawl with other DD, regardless of armour difference, since we are relying almost entirely on our guns and agility to accomplish our task. All i'm asking is this: either rebuff the hp to 14800 or any figure as long it is lower than 15800; reduce the incapacitation % of turrets since kiev is a mainly a gun ship rather than a torpedo boat; or if possible, increase all DD's hp from every nation to make it as balanced as possible (this idea seem pretty weird, but its all for balancing reasons if for the sake of increasing the kiev's hp, least it is considered op to other nations)

 

This post was not meant to infuriate other people who highly regarded the kiev as op and reported for nerfing, so please dont take it that way.

 

Kiev is plenty overpowered... i think it was about time to do so...

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Kiev is plenty overpowered... i think it was about time to do so...

 

By that, do you mean when you were facing against it or actual personal usage? If you're referring to facing against it experience, it means that you have been psychologically induced fear by other kiev players with their own methods of playstyle, usually the harassment tactic, where they pop smoke and rain fire on you as capital ship. This was also exactly what i faced when i first encountered a kiev who did the exact tactic where it has convinced me that ship is a good harassment (support) gun ship with decent hp to trade against other DD or capital ships for strikes. Those who consider kiev (then or the present) as op was because of this reason. However, the nerf of the cannons were validated after this recent update, and i have no complaints. But the fact that you have to stay out of battle most of the time and provide long range sniper fire due to lower hp pool that is not even on par with other DD at the same tier? (as what melon said, the hp was lower than ognevoi) Would you consider that as a fair nerf process? just to satisfy your cries of op? while it has only 4km torps of which American and IJN DD has longer range and therefore can provide with torpedo support, whilst the kiev cant since it has to rely heavily on its guns.

 

If you mean by personal usage of the ship being OP, then it is true that its fire % and damage is a little op i admit, and that the recent nerf was correct, but the fact that you have 12.8k hp due to the nerf, would you consider yourself able to help the team besides sniper fire? no, you're downright wasted as a tier 7 that cant even do proper job for the team besides fighting against other nation DD, and u no longer have the hp to trade. From what i analyzed, this hp nerf was somewhat to control the amount of kiev players since the majority people complained about being op, without actually personally using it. In my opinion, the tier 7 russian DD onwards is pretty much wasted as you cant perform well against other nation DD due to having long range torpedoes and concealment, and if you had personally played in a couple of tier 8-10 matches, you realized that guns are pretty much wasted at that point since you're gonna be taken out by other cruisers with their firepower. You might think that the HP increase (19k for tashkent, 18k for udaloi, and 20k for the x) is justified, but the fact that the cruisers or even BB can just 1 salvo you, what's the point of firing the guns besides annoying the enemy with fire, without being detected (may i remind you that their concealment value is lower than other nation DD)? Thats when long range torpedoes like in the fubuki, kagero, shimakaze, benson, fletcher and gearing come in useful in such fights. It was at that point while i was using the tashkent i realized its pretty much wasted to continue that line so i decided to grind back to fubuki, because at that time i saw how useful it is to have long range torps and high concealment values.

 

Nerfing the kiev could been seen like this: To control the population of russian DD players, and increase other nations DD since the russian DD is not up to the task anymore, especially at higher tier. It also eliminates grinding process (like what other people in here talking about how hard it is to grind to kiev) to further reduce the population. But the fact that WG introduces a variation of ships from different nations, doesnt that provide us with more variety of ships instead of facing the invisi torp DD or other ships of the same nation over and over? With no other ships adequate for the task to hunt? thats when kiev or russian DD's come into place. So the people who first encountered this ship will find it op  due to facing against people who knew how to make that ship op, not because of its stats. This drastic nerf especially the hp is pretty much referring to the russian DD as a complete removal from the game since its no longer useful for the team. Similar to the German ships, some people were complaining about being op due to having high AP damage, but the fact you have glass armour, doesnt that justify the high ap damage? Again, 15k hp on the kiev, while relying almost entirely on the guns, isnt that the necessary stats to brawl or harass the enemy team with hp to trade, at the cost of 4km torps and poor concealment value? See where im heading now?

 

 

 

 

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Alpha Tester
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I was looking for some stats on the new russian prem cruiser yesterday to see if its worth getting, and I came across all ship W/R's worldwide.

The Kiev was the highest in one class of all DD's, I think it was WR, but there was something about it's durability that put it at the top of the nerf list.

 

Interestingly, the Imperator Nikolais has THE HIGHEST WR of ANY SHIP IN THE WHOLE GAME, over 60%.

 

Then on the same day I went 1 vs 1 with a "resaonably experienced" Imperator Nik, in my Ark Beta, who at close range, smashes anything.

 

Except an Imperator...apparently. He took 3 or 4 perfect broadside hits from my full guns at 5kms and under!, and sailed past, sinking me eventually after he passed.

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Alpha Tester
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but I played the tashkent and now on the udaloi, I do not think these are too powerful at all. My detect range on the water is 7.7kms yet if I fire my guns at almost max range (14.3kms? ish), I will be spotted. 

 

And forget about trying to cap in russians, its not their job, but all your rookie teammates will expect you to. The worst air detectability stats also make it EXTREMELY hazardous when there is a cv or 2 or the enemy team.

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