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Captain_Black_Beard

NerfedBerg (Nurnberg) buff

Nurnberg, to buff or not to buff?  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Buff?

    • Yes!
      23
    • No, it doesn't need to be buffed.
      13
  2. 2. Do German cruisers in general (Tier 1-10) need a overhaul or buff?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      5
    • Only some German cruisers need a buff or rework.
      8

35 comments in this topic

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So far I have 35 battles in the Nürnburg.

Not that many battles but I think enough to draw a general opinion on the ship.

 

So we begin... the mighty NERFEDBERG!

After using the Königsberg, (which is an alright ship) I unlocked the Nurnburg and not to much surprise its pretty much a reskin of the Königsberg.

Expect you will be seeing Tier 7-8 ships in roughly 80-90 percent of your games.

 

Overall HE as we all know on the german ships is useless.

But we got high dmg ap right!

Yes and no, against cruisers at under 13km giving broadside sure you can citadel

Otherwise its useless to.

You can do serious dmg to BBs at close range but that brings me to my next point.

 

The armor and hit points.

The armor is so weak even a DD can pen your citadel (AND the citadel runs almost the entire length of the ship).

It's only 50mm thick.

It's hitpoints with the stock hull is 23k and you will see t8 ships!

 

So no armor, medicore guns, what about its long range man?

Well while in tier 6-5 games the range is just fine since you see t7-8 so often you have just as much range as other cruisers, and of course are outranged by BBs.

You often can't get closer to engage because of the weak armor and huge citadel, and angling doesn't help due to the armor being so thin...

 

So speed and turning? Both crap as well.

The speed is quite average and slower than Jap and US cruisers, and it's turning is worse.

Not even going to talk about AA and rudder shift.

 

Overall this ship is lacking I'd like to see some love for this german cruiser and all the german cruisers in general.

Before you show me your awesome games in this ship and tell me I'm wrong let me tell you that It hasn't all been bumpy sailing this ship but its certainly painful and I can't wait to get rid of her!

 

Edited by Captain_Black_Beard

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Beta Tester
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Not that I've played the Nurnberg, but the Konigsberg is one of the best ships of the German Cruisers, not just an alright ship good sir

 

Thing is, having played the Cleveland and Aoba, I think the Nurnberg will be a fine ship, having a fast Rof like the Cleveland and without the sub-orbital shell arcs plus it has torpedoes which the Cleveland does not, and a firing better arc at the expense of range. 

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Super Tester
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Oh God the wall of text...

So far I have 35 battles in the Nürnburg.

Not that many battles but I think enough to draw a general opinion on the ship.
 
So we begin... the mighty NERFEDBERG!
After using the Königsberg, (which is an alright ship) I unlocked the Nurnburg and not to much surprise its pretty much a reskin of the Königsberg.
Expect you will be seeing Tier 7-8 ships in roughly 80-90 percent of your games.
 
Overall HE as we all know on the german ships is useless.
But we got high dmg ap right!
Yes and no, against cruisers at under 13km giving broadside sure you can citadel
Otherwise its useless to.
You can do serious dmg to BBs at close range but that brings me to my next point.
 
The armor and hit points.
The armor is so weak even a DD can pen your citadel (AND the citadel runs almost the entire length of the ship).
It's only 50mm thick.
It's hitpoints with the stock hull is 23k and you will see t8 ships!
 
So no armor, medicore guns, what about its long range man?
Well while in tier 6-5 games the range is just fine since you see t7-8 so often you have just as much range as other cruisers, and of course are outranged by BBs.
You often can't get closer to engage because of the weak armor and huge citadel, and angling doesn't help due to the armor being so thin...
 
So speed and turning? Both crap as well.
The speed is quite average and slower than Jap and US cruisers, and it's turning is worse.
Not even going to talk about AA and rudder shift.
 
Overall this ship is lacking I'd like to see some love for this german cruiser and all the german cruisers in general.
Before you show me your awesome games in this ship and tell me I'm wrong let me tell you that It hasn't all been bumpy sailing this ship but its certainly painful and I can't wait to get rid of her!

 

Edited by Retia

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"Not that I've played the Nurnberg, but the Konigsberg is one of the best ships of the German Cruisers, not just an alright ship good sir

 

Thing is, having played the Cleveland and Aoba, I think the Nurnberg will be a fine ship, having a fast Rof like the Cleveland and without the sub-orbital shell arcs plus it has torpedoes which the Cleveland does not, and a firing better arc at the expense of range."

 

Yes the shell arc is better than a cleveland and has torpedos. But yet the cleveland and aoba are better in every catagory except in terms of range and shell arc. The torpedoes have a 6km range, and your "suppose" to be a sniper. If you get within 6km of an enemy you will be sunk before you could even select your torpedos due to the low hitpoints (I know its a light cruiser and how hp works) and armor you just cant survive any close range engagement and you are still at risk at long range when you have to deal with tier 7 and 8 ships. 

 

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Yes the shell arc is better than a cleveland and has torpedos. But yet the cleveland and aoba are better in every catagory except in terms of range and shell arc. The torpedoes have a 6km range, and your "suppose" to be a sniper. If you get within 6km of an enemy you will be sunk before you could even select your torpedos due to the low hitpoints (I know its a light cruiser and how hp works) and armor you just cant survive any close range engagement and you are still at risk at long range when you have to deal with tier 7 and 8 ships. 

 

Thing is, it is a sniper ship like the Konigsberg. 

 

No armour, but great guns. Yes the HE is terrible, but the Rof makes up for it and the AP should be excellent against other Cruisers

 

The torpedoes are always an asset, nothing worse than meeting an unexpected Battleship (or cruiser, but they can be sunk with AP) in a Cleveland at close range - you have to  pew pew and set fire to the enemy ship, chewing them down slowly, all the while having them eat you with gusto.

 

At least with torps you can finish them off just as fast as they can to you, especially if they are a New Mexico or Fuso...

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I had trouble for the first 10 battles or so, but once I got round to playing its strengths, IMHO it's the best T6 Cruiser in the list (just my 2 cents).

 

For both the Nurnberg and Konigsberg, I use AP against everything except for DDs. I find that the rain of AP shells against BBs at range does very decent damage, thanks to plunging fire. And with its accuracy and comparatively (with the Cleveland) short shell-traversal time, I find hitting targets at 16.5km to be relatively easy.

 

Also, it's not an upfront brawler, use the 2 rear turrets in retreat fashion whenever you're targetted. Stick with friendly BBs and use its concealment range to your advantage. 

 

For the record, it took me 13 matches to get from Rank 18 -> Rank 10. 10 of those matches were played with Nurnberg, with 9 wins. 

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I had trouble for the first 10 battles or so, but once I got round to playing its strengths, IMHO it's the best T6 Cruiser in the list (just my 2 cents).

 

For both the Nurnberg and Konigsberg, I use AP against everything except for DDs. I find that the rain of AP shells against BBs at range does very decent damage, thanks to plunging fire. And with its accuracy and comparatively (with the Cleveland) short shell-traversal time, I find hitting targets at 16.5km to be relatively easy.

 

Also, it's not an upfront brawler, use the 2 rear turrets in retreat fashion whenever you're targetted. Stick with friendly BBs and use its concealment range to your advantage. 

 

For the record, it took me 13 matches to get from Rank 18 -> Rank 10. 10 of those matches were played with Nurnberg, with 9 wins. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I dont think its the most useless terrible ship out there, but with playing the cleveland and aoba it seems very inferior to both of those ships. I have played some amazing games in her, including a 120k dmg ranked battle in fact, ive played 4 ranked battles in her so far each one a victory (Not to brag but I did do very well and even carried very hard, not that Im that good of a player). But yet I still feel the ships pros certainly dont outweigh the cons she has. It doesn't help its extremely difficult to have a big impact (or carry) in tier  7 and 8 matches. Of course this is just my 2 cents. I think shes a capable ship when your dealing with tier 5's and lower but a cleveland or aboa facing tier 5s and lower can do just as well.

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the ship is ok imo, buff it and it will start to push into OP territory

it's armour is it's biggest weakness, i tend to sail with my stern facing the enemy BB's, prevents it from being nuked and allowing 2/3 guns to always be able to fire at what presents itself

that or just use the old fire from behind the island trick

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I only got my Nurnberg yesterday and still haven't upgraded the hull but I think she is fine as is ... less prone to the engine being disabled than the earlier German cruisers which was my only real problem with Konigsberg ... not quite sure how they would buff her without making her OP

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I only got my Nurnberg yesterday and still haven't upgraded the hull but I think she is fine as is ... less prone to the engine being disabled than the earlier German cruisers which was my only real problem with Konigsberg ... not quite sure how they would buff her without making her OP

 

Keep playing her some more, you will find the disadvantages she has, and you will definitely notice them if you have played the aboa or cleveland of course its not all bad of a ship.

 

IF they did buff her, lets just say. I think I small increase in her hitpoints and maybe shrinking her citadel, because the citadel is HUGE. IT runs almost the entire length of the ship and with such weak armor it can be penetrated easily at almost any angle. Even if you try to turn and dodge shots the Nurnberg isnt all that maneuverable and if you dont have the turning module upgrade or the second hull even battleships will laugh at you.

 

Basically if you get hit by a single battleship round (Your a cruiser so bbs are slobbering over you :D) theres an extreme high change your going to get citadel'd. And with your low hp one citadel from a bb can wipe out 50 percent of your hit points whether or not you angled or not. 

 

If you check warshipstats.com you can see the nurnberg is scoring less damage than the other cruisers as well as having a considerably lower survival rate as expected.

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Keep playing her some more, you will find the disadvantages she has, and you will definitely notice them if you have played the aboa or cleveland of course its not all bad of a ship.

 

IF they did buff her, lets just say. I think I small increase in her hitpoints and maybe shrinking her citadel, because the citadel is HUGE. IT runs almost the entire length of the ship and with such weak armor it can be penetrated easily at almost any angle. Even if you try to turn and dodge shots the Nurnberg isnt all that maneuverable and if you dont have the turning module upgrade or the second hull even battleships will laugh at you.

 

Basically if you get hit by a single battleship round (Your a cruiser so bbs are slobbering over you :D) theres an extreme high change your going to get citadel'd. And with your low hp one citadel from a bb can wipe out 50 percent of your hit points whether or not you angled or not. 

 

If you check warshipstats.com you can see the nurnberg is scoring less damage than the other cruisers as well as having a considerably lower survival rate as expected.

 

Having made my way to the York. Gotta say Nurnberg is a way better ship than the Cleveland. Armor-wise, she might be a little forgiving. But if you can use the correct shells on ur targets, she drops other ships' HP fairly quickly.

 

Here's a battle I had in a tier 7 MM. 

 

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Having made my way to the York. Gotta say Nurnberg is a way better ship than the Cleveland. Armor-wise, she might be a little forgiving. But if you can use the correct shells on ur targets, she drops other ships' HP fairly quickly.

 

Here's a battle I had in a tier 7 MM. 

 

 

A replay of a good game (Congrats I guess?) doesn't prove anything. I've also had some awesome games in her. Sometimes you get great games in a ship and sometimes you don't. I dont normally look at peoples stats but looking at yours you have a low survival rate (Which is common for almost all Nurnberg sailors) in this ship and less average damage then the Konigsbergs (also normal), that doesn't strike you as odd?

 

And even though she has all the extra range, you could even see in the replay how difficult it actually is to hit anything (I'm not insulting you, my aim is terrible) at its max 16.5 km range and I couldn't even imagine getting advanced firing training like you did and waiting 15 seconds for the shells to fall to only do 0 damage with HE. And trying to get closer to land more hits means your also putting your own ship at a high risk.

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not just the nurenberg needs buff the ap max damage and the ap rate needs buffing

the max damage on german ships has been redused over recent patches and now german ships are allmost unplayably bad at high teir... i just played a game as roon (t9) and couldnt penetrate a mogami at 6km whils hitting its citidel area. ive found since recent time ive had difficulty penetrating my ap sheels at all somtimes.. i can understand players saying the german cannons were op before but those people need to play german ships there actually hard to play even with good cannons.. german ships need a rebuff on there ap chances and the ap max damage since they rely so heavily on there ap shells

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not just the nurenberg needs buff the ap max damage and the ap rate needs buffing

the max damage on german ships has been redused over recent patches and now german ships are allmost unplayably bad at high teir... i just played a game as roon (t9) and couldnt penetrate a mogami at 6km whils hitting its citidel area. ive found since recent time ive had difficulty penetrating my ap sheels at all somtimes.. i can understand players saying the german cannons were op before but those people need to play german ships there actually hard to play even with good cannons.. german ships need a rebuff on there ap chances and the ap max damage since they rely so heavily on there ap shells

 

I was playing a Myoko in the same game. Was very surprised to see you get ripped apart by that half-dead Mogami. 

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A replay of a good game (Congrats I guess?) doesn't prove anything. I've also had some awesome games in her. Sometimes you get great games in a ship and sometimes you don't. I dont normally look at peoples stats but looking at yours you have a low survival rate (Which is common for almost all Nurnberg sailors) in this ship and less average damage then the Konigsbergs (also normal), that doesn't strike you as odd?

 

And even though she has all the extra range, you could even see in the replay how difficult it actually is to hit anything (I'm not insulting you, my aim is terrible) at its max 16.5 km range and I couldn't even imagine getting advanced firing training like you did and waiting 15 seconds for the shells to fall to only do 0 damage with HE. And trying to get closer to land more hits means your also putting your own ship at a high risk.

Yes, I do agree the armor of the ship is relatively weak. Advanced firing training is helpful for her; it requires ranging shots, but the extra range you put in between the enemy ship and urself will surely make their return fire less effective.

 

Low survival rate in this ship compared to Konigsberg I assume is that Nurnberg could meet high tier enemies more often.

 

And yes, it will be great to see a buff towards this ship.

 

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not just the nurenberg needs buff the ap max damage and the ap rate needs buffing

the max damage on german ships has been redused over recent patches and now german ships are allmost unplayably bad at high teir... i just played a game as roon (t9) and couldnt penetrate a mogami at 6km whils hitting its citidel area. ive found since recent time ive had difficulty penetrating my ap sheels at all somtimes.. i can understand players saying the german cannons were op before but those people need to play german ships there actually hard to play even with good cannons.. german ships need a rebuff on there ap chances and the ap max damage since they rely so heavily on there ap shells

I have only played up to the Nurnberg and Im 10k xp away from the yorck. But so far down the line Im extremely underwhelmed. From what I hear from players tier 7-10 isnt much better which is concerning. I would agree overall the germans need some type of overhaul or buff. We can clearly see the role they have and the playstyle wargaming is trying to give the (something thats not a AA platform or HE spammer) german cruisers but. it just isnt working and theres little going for them. Of course this is my opinion :)

 

 I dont think ap damage needs a buff (its already fairly ahead of other cruisers)  but maybe the actual penetration of the shells does. Giving them slightly higher penetration would allow them to actually damage battleships (all other cruisers can just spam HE and melt bbs with fire). This would allow the germans to have a slight edge in penning cruisers that are not angled enough and do some (Not melt bbs or citadel them but do penetration damage) damage to enemy battleships and also have better luck citadel'ing cruisers at longer ranges. 

 

Edited by Captain_Black_Beard

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Having made my way to the York. Gotta say Nurnberg is a way better ship than the Cleveland. Armor-wise, she might be a little forgiving. But if you can use the correct shells on ur targets, she drops other ships' HP fairly quickly.

 

Here's a battle I had in a tier 7 MM. 

 

 

This is Textbook gameplay for Nurberg imo, enjoyed it

Long Range firing from the stern, wrecked 3 DD's with the help of sonar set the BB on fire and got the CV in the end to buff the total damage :P

 

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I have only played up to the Nurnberg and Im 10k xp away from the yorck. But so far down the line Im extremely underwhelmed. From what I hear from players tier 7-10 isnt much better which is concerning. I would agree overall the germans need some type of overhaul or buff. We can clearly see the role they have and the playstyle wargaming is trying to give the (something thats not a AA platform or HE spammer) german cruisers but. it just isnt working and theres little going for them. Of course this is my opinion :)

 

 I dont think ap damage needs a buff (its already fairly ahead of other cruisers)  but maybe the actual penetration of the shells does. Giving them slightly higher penetration would allow them to actually damage battleships (all other cruisers can just spam HE and melt bbs with fire). This would allow the germans to have a slight edge in penning cruisers that are not angled enough and do some (Not melt bbs or citadel them but do penetration damage) damage to enemy battleships and also have better luck citadel'ing cruisers at longer ranges. 

 

 

York is like the Colorado in the US BB line. I think it will take me sometime to get used to her.

 

German cruisers are kind of like a hybrid of US and IJN cruisers, but lack of armor and the chance to cause fire. (Chance of fire is slightly increased a bit recently?)

 

During my progress towards high tier German cruisers, I also find they are more likely to take module dmg, engine room & rudder, due to the overall weak armor, which is kind of frustrating for the players.

 

I think I will stop at York, grind up other ships I play, and hopefully, one day WG will buff the German cruiser line a bit.

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This is Textbook gameplay for Nurberg imo, enjoyed it

Long Range firing from the stern, wrecked 3 DD's with the help of sonar set the BB on fire and got the CV in the end to buff the total damage :P

 

 

Good to know you enjoyed the gameplay. :)

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I have only played up to the Nurnberg and Im 10k xp away from the yorck. But so far down the line Im extremely underwhelmed. From what I hear from players tier 7-10 isnt much better which is concerning. I would agree overall the germans need some type of overhaul or buff. We can clearly see the role they have and the playstyle wargaming is trying to give the (something thats not a AA platform or HE spammer) german cruisers but. it just isnt working and theres little going for them. Of course this is my opinion :)

 

 I dont think ap damage needs a buff (its already fairly ahead of other cruisers)  but maybe the actual penetration of the shells does. Giving them slightly higher penetration would allow them to actually damage battleships (all other cruisers can just spam HE and melt bbs with fire). This would allow the germans to have a slight edge in penning cruisers that are not angled enough and do some (Not melt bbs or citadel them but do penetration damage) damage to enemy battleships and also have better luck citadel'ing cruisers at longer ranges. 

 

 

i made a seperate discussion about whole german line but ill also say it here they NEED to do one of 2 things to make germans fesable again, 1) re buff the citidel damage as it used to be 7k per now only 5k per

or 2) as you said re buff the ap chances these also have been redused over recent times for unknown reasons, in my admiral hipper i could citidel a tirpiz if i hit the right place now i strugle for any citidels let alone penetrations

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I was playing a Myoko in the same game. Was very surprised to see you get ripped apart by that half-dead Mogami. 

 

that game annoyed the crap out of me i fired 2 salvos but only 4k total damage it was rediculas

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angling in a German cruiser is both a good idea and a bad idea to do unless fighting with extreme angles (angles of more then 70 degrees which is the auto-bounce tier - where all shells will bounce irregardless of penetration values)

 

It really depends on what ship you are fighting to choose weather to angle or not.

 

Best to go broadside on with most german cruisers due to how weak their armor is. Most Battleships will either overpen you or do only around 4000~ dmg hits unless they score underwater hits (where the shell has a low enough velocity that when it pens it'll blow up in the citadel)

 

If fighting other cruisers watch out for the low calibre ones, while higher calibre ones require a bit of angling to become resistant to them. Destroyers are self explanatory. Watch out for Russian 130mm and the rest is kinda easy to figure out.

 

Try and approach Battleships are hard to hit angles (head on or 70~80degrees) and get close enough to unleash torpedoes. German ones are short range but are very powerful in terms of damage. They also have a very uniform speed too.

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angling in a German cruiser is both a good idea and a bad idea to do unless fighting with extreme angles (angles of more then 70 degrees which is the auto-bounce tier - where all shells will bounce irregardless of penetration values)

 

It really depends on what ship you are fighting to choose weather to angle or not.

 

Best to go broadside on with most german cruisers due to how weak their armor is. Most Battleships will either overpen you or do only around 4000~ dmg hits unless they score underwater hits (where the shell has a low enough velocity that when it pens it'll blow up in the citadel)

 

If fighting other cruisers watch out for the low calibre ones, while higher calibre ones require a bit of angling to become resistant to them. Destroyers are self explanatory. Watch out for Russian 130mm and the rest is kinda easy to figure out.

 

Try and approach Battleships are hard to hit angles (head on or 70~80degrees) and get close enough to unleash torpedoes. German ones are short range but are very powerful in terms of damage. They also have a very uniform speed too.

 

I disagree. Yes angle against cruisers and dd, but against bbs going BROADSIDE? Thats crazy nurnbergs citadel is huge you dont get overpens on her because her entire hull is nearly a citadel. Going headon you still can get citadel penetrated (even in a armored cruiser or bb you going headon is actually not always the best idea) and that only allows for 1/3 of your guns to fire at a target. Get close to use torpedos? even their secondaries will citadel you (No thats not even a joke secondaries can citadel and can detonate you). not to mention German cruisers are not fast. 

 

Even angling against cruisers isnt always helpful, the last game i was in a nurnberg a cleveland shooting HE at me while I was angled away from him running detonated me while I still had 85 percent of my health vs his low 10 percent. Im not asking for an armor buff for the nurnberg but balancing her in other ways to make her more competitive. Hell none of the german cruisers are competitive except konigsberg in my opinion. 

 

World of Warships: gamesmodel3d.com

Look at this website to view the armor scheme (German cruisers - nurnberg- armor scheme) and citadel by zooming in on the nurnberg's armor model. ( click the "Armor model" on the left side of the screen) 

 

 

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